• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

This is Phil Fish

S

SPACECADET

Member
Remij said:
I'm sure that game is still being made.
Click to expand...

going by how he had andy kaufman as his twitter picture when he had one public, i wouldn't doubt it if he took one out of the kaufman book and it ended up being a stunt. but at the same time i have no idea.
 
F

Fahrenheit

Banned
Whole lots of pseudo social science going on in this video. First things first. Nickle Back the band and the concept both suck a big one. Second thing is, Phil Fish is no different then a lot of the posters here. He has strong opinions about things and no metal filter. When random posters say things like "Japanese games just suck" no one gives a shit. But when some e celeb say it Kotaku got 5 articles ready to go. Hell Phil Fish got caught posting on 4chan trying to drum up more bullshit on 4chan. Also it starting to get old that anyone with a mic, a monotone voice, and a tight script can make headline news in this industry.
 
K

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
frozencool said:
So you realize, that that only allows people who are dicks to keep on trucking along being dicks because no one actually calls them out on it? Let's say I make a super awesome game. Let's say at my award's speech for whatever award I get, I unabashedly declare I am the hottest shit you will ever see in the game's industry, everyone's dick is smaller than mine, and that blacks shouldn't vote. I'm of the mind that I should be called out on it, but in your perfect world I get to keep on trucking, just making life more difficult for everyone else. If someone is being a dick, they should be called out on being a dick. Putting your head down and hoping that they go away doesn't make these people go away, they just keep getting more and more extreme as the silence justifies their behavior even more.

But... IS Phil Fish a dick?

You see, the problem here is we have two different opposing schools of thought on what Phil Fish is. To people that are empathetic to him, they go with the idea that Fish only responds in such a way as a defensive mechanism to abuse. To those that dislike Fish, they tend to believe that Fish is an asshole to begin with and comments like "Compare my life to yours and kill yourself" or "Suck on my dick. Choke on it" were going to come out in some way, shape, or form because... Phil Fish is an asshole, or at least they think so.

A main issue though, is that the truth doesn't lie somewhere in the middle. The truth just isn't actually there. We don't know if Phil Fish is really a dick. We don't know him personally after all, as many have said. Yet many seem to forget that the lack of concrete info does not confirm the opposite. We may not know if he's a dick, but we also don't know if he's NOT a dick. Once again, we don't know THAT either. Maybe Phil Fish runs an orphanage in Africa, maybe Phil Fish is an actual pisspot who hates gamers, we don't know either and can't confirm either.

All we can see is what Phil Fish left behind: A pretty good game and a history of inflammatory comments. At this point, as demonstrated by the video it all becomes your own personal opinion and I think it's these bigger questions that need to be answered. I think these questions are more about the bigger 'concept' of Phil Fish as opposed to the idea of an indie who didn't deserve his success or being famous wrong.

Simply put, are you willing to let someone say whatever they like so long as their body of work is good? Does them being this talented justify the attitude? At what point does the attitude outstrip the talent? Does it ever?

Now personally speaking, I don't like how Phil Fish would respond to insults. It disappoints me that he has this great sea of talent within him, and also the drive to make it into something, but does so poorly when confronted with adversity outside himself. There are so many other indies who take the high road, like Zoe Quinn of Depression Quest. She gets hatred and bile spat at her in a rate not unlike Fish, but Zoe has always turned away from getting down into the dumps of Twitter and squabbling with her haters, she takes the high road and lets the work speak for itself. I attribute this to Zoe Quinn having an extremely strong sense of character to match her talent with Depression Quest, a quality I find hard to see in Phil Fish.

At the end of the day, for me, I find Phil Fish to have responded in a manner that was not only completely unprofessional, but completely unneccessary. Phil Fish does not need to tell people to go kill themselves, he should have let Fez selling 1 million copies do that. Phil Fish does not need to tell people to suck his dick, he should have let Fez winning numerous awards say that FOR him. If he WAS going to snark back at haters about it, he could have done it in so many different ways that would portray him at least a little bit better. Personally, I think he was talented enough to give any hatred a simple of reply of "Made Fez. Sold a million. Your move." which would have been curt, simple, and brimming with confidence. Instead he has to tell someone to go kill themselves, and sinks himself to the level of the internet trolls he hates so much.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delayed respone to this. Been out of town.

I think you've misunderstood a very basic thing. Calling someone out as a "dick" is not the same thing as calling out their actions. Using your example: having the opinion that certain people shouldn't be allowed to vote does not per se make them "dicks" or "assholes" it just makes them wrong. It's a difference. They might think their reasoning is sound and that everyone who has come to another conclusion is wrong. Name calling detracts from the discussion. Calling that person an "asshole" is not calling him out, it just makes matters worse since it drags down the discussion to stupid.

You're basicly saying that since Phil Fish isn't held to the same standard as yourself. I'll bet you that every single person on earth can be considered an asshole for something they've done. I'd also reason that embracing atleast some of that part of your personality makes you a stronger individual. We're all assholes at one point or another. Some more. Some less. You were let down that Phil didn't take the high road but your reasoning is that we should call his bullshit out but ignoring the fact that his remarks were actually calling out bullshit. Ironic?
 
H

Harest

Neo Member
SPACECADET said:
i just 100% completed fez. it was a headache but rewarding. i just watched the fez 2 teaser again and got sad.
Click to expand...
I got sad too some hours ago when i finally saw the IGTM: Special Edition i bought some weeks ago. At the end of the first part of this SE you can read "Phil Fish is currently working on FEZ II." :/.
Remij said:
I'm sure that game is still being made.
Click to expand...
I was sure about it too, then my faith started to drastically decrease. At least i prefer to be surprised by a FEZ II popping out from nowhere than waiting it.

Anyway, i was here to say his Twitter account is back online, like i thought. Still private but not deactivated or deleted.
Harest said:
[...] Probably just a temporary deactivation.
Click to expand...
 
P

POWERSPHERE

Banned
SPACECADET said:
going by how he had andy kaufman as his twitter picture when he had one public, i wouldn't doubt it if he took one out of the kaufman book and it ended up being a stunt. but at the same time i have no idea.
Click to expand...

He wants you to think all of his dummy spits and dickhead moves are all part of some higher hoax, but it's not. He just likes attention, and i'm sure he's still making the game.
 
Rest

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
What's with the Nickelback tangent? Stopped watching because that went on too long. At this point, this is my first time reading about Phil Fish and I don't even know anything about him because some guy wanted to bitch about Nickelback.
 
C

Chairhome

Member
I didn't care much for the video. This video is somewhat a theory on how people may have "misinterpreted him". Its a lot of speculation on what other people may have thought about him and how it could have had a bearing on how he was perceived, but the narrator tries to be omniscient and present his theories as facts. At least that's what it felt like to me.
 
J

jerry1594

Member
It's funny some loudmouth nerd is being made into some character study, as if he were an auteur or something. Does fez even warrant that? I haven't played it.
 
G

gngf123

Member
Pizarro said:
It's funny some loudmouth nerd is being made into some character study, as if he were an auteur or something. Does fez even warrant that? I haven't played it.
Click to expand...

I consider it the best game of 2012. The only half-issue with it is that if you aren't one for taking in minor details and exploring, you can very easily miss everything good about the game.

Not a problem for me, but it causes some people to call it a "walking simulator", even though that couldn't be further from the truth.
 
J

Jigorath

Banned
So the gist of the video was "it's okay that Phil Fish acts like an jerk because sometimes he says nice things too!"
 
L

Loakum

Banned
I honestly never heard of this Phil Fish person before. Now since I watched that video...I still feel nothing about, or for him. I honestly don't care about Fish, or the feelings others have for him. Thank you.
 
C

chadtwo

Member
For claiming in the beginning not to be a defense of Phil Fish, it sure did come off (mostly) as a defense of Phil Fish.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
FusionCode said:
So the gist of the video was "it's okay that Phil Fish acts like an jerk because sometimes he says nice things too!"
Click to expand...

did you even watch the video?

did you even watch the fucking video?

is English your first language?
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Rez said:
did you even watch the video?

did you even watch the fucking video?

is English your first language?
Click to expand...

image.php
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
Just wanted to rip some quotes from the video because it's such a brilliant analysis on journalists' tabloid reactions, us, the news in general (mostly focuses on the negative so people come away being more fearful of the world), and internet fame:

"Nothing positive Phil Fish says ever becomes news."

"He is a SYMBOL of everything that is wrong with indie games. He's newsworthy when he acts like a symbol. Anything that doesn't fit the narrative is ignored on blogs, forums and social media. News sites cherry pick the moments where Phil Fish the human being looks, from the right vantage point, like Phil Fish the concept."

ibkAGvAQifbXkl.gif


"Given many views, people will consistently choose the harshest one. This is a deliberate choice to preserve the idea that Phil is just an asshole."

"People are invested in hating Phil. The announcement of Fez II's cancellation on his company website presently has almost 2000+ comments, most of them insults. Long, consecutive, unbroken strings of insults. People saying 'good riddance', suggesting he fuck off, go kill himself, or of course choke on their dicks."

"We project different things on Phil Fish which says more about us than him."

"You might find something you tweeted last night had 45,000 retweets and you will find yourself suddenly held to different standards. You won't know necessarily why this thing was what made you a big deal. You won't know necessarily how long you'll be a big deal. But suddenly, the people who follow you aren't just people anymore. They're an audience. And they want you to be something. They don't necessarily agree on what that something is. How would you want them to judge you?"
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
I'm bumping this now because the video is excellent, does an amazing job highlighting how controversial figures end up in the press, when they don't, and much of it equally applies to many people who aren't Phil Fish.

With Phil going through an incomprehensibly difficult time with the unconscionable hack instigated by people who can only be described as terrorists, I hope the video can at least help a few people really understand how publicity and controversy works.


I know most people here are reasonable and have no way condoned the destruction of Phil Fish's personal and professional life, but there's still an overwhelming element of "he's a complete dick but this attack still isn't warranted". Sure he's done some dick-ish things, but I'd disagree with the premise that he's at all a bad person.
 
K

KyleCross

Member
BUNTING1243 said:
Yeah, I figured people here might enjoy it but threads involving Gamergate have always gone south and I'm not sure if they're even allowed anymore
Click to expand...

If GamerGate discussion isn't allowed on GAF (I don't know if it isn't or not, I've avoided it all) then I don't see how bumping a year old thread with something GamerGate related is any different than making a new thread.
 
N

NewGame

Banned
Rest said:
What's with the Nickelback tangent? Stopped watching because that went on too long. At this point, this is my first time reading about Phil Fish and I don't even know anything about him because some guy wanted to bitch about Nickelback.
Click to expand...

Because the nature of Phils fame is not relateable due to game developers being far more removed from their work than say musicians who literally do their work on camera for all to see.

But of course you got distracted by something you're not interested in and now remain ill informed because of it. Perhaps you should try again when you have 20 minutes of your precious and important time spare.
 
L

lazygecko

Member
Love his videos and the way he's sincerely curious about these online mob mentalities really resonates with me. The second video that goes into the whole irrational mindset of feeling offended because someone answers "I don't drink" I think puts the whole gamergate thing into a context you can understand.
 
D

Decker

Member
interesting video and nice analysis

perhaps his audience has been too hard on him and there were also trolls going after him, but he definitely did close to nothing to help his situation
 
D

Dicktatorship

Junior Member
Pizarro said:
It's funny some loudmouth nerd is being made into some character study, as if he were an auteur or something. Does fez even warrant that? I haven't played it.
Click to expand...

It's an enjoyable indie game with a lot more polish than the games that came before it that used the perspective switch mechanic. Auteur? Nah, dude made a good game that wasn't exactly mind blowing or innovative. Fez is the result of a lot of hard work and time spent, not genius.
 
1

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
T

Toxi

Banned
Fahrenheit said:
Whole lots of pseudo social science going on in this video. First things first. Nickle Back the band and the concept both suck a big one. Second thing is, Phil Fish is no different then a lot of the posters here. He has strong opinions about things and no metal filter. When random posters say things like "Japanese games just suck" no one gives a shit. But when some e celeb say it Kotaku got 5 articles ready to go. Hell Phil Fish got caught posting on 4chan trying to drum up more bullshit on 4chan. Also it starting to get old that anyone with a mic, a monotone voice, and a tight script can make headline news in this industry.
Click to expand...
I can't believe people still actually believe this was Phil Fish when it takes five seconds to photoshop any random tweet to look like your own and pretending to be someone else is practically a past-time on /v/.

I could probably fool you into thinking I was William Shatner with a screenshot of a tweet.
 
N

NoblesseOblige

Banned
I wanted to create a discussion on the "Why Are You So Angry?" series of videos but it really covers a wider scope outside of just gaming. Still something I think people should watch however.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Let's predict what PR bullshit will Phil Spencer unleash next week
Opinion Cringe Event
3
1K
FrankWza replied
(IGN) Phil Spencer and the Battle for Xbox’s Soul
2
94
5K
Pedro Motta replied
NX Gamer finds a video of Phil Spencer and Sarah Bond showing regret over closing Lionhead
33
3K
gothmog replied
Phil Spencer Has Now Been Head of Xbox for 10 Years; We Look Back at His First Decade
4
614
Oppoi replied
  • Locked
"We are going to fix all the stuff that Kotick broke." - Phil Spencer, at Blizzcon 2023
Analysis Review
33
3K
3liteDragon replied
Top Bottom