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[Pazuzu]

Nintendo... setting gaming back? Nintendo IS gaming. The PlayStation and Xbox brands, however, are "advanced technology interactive electronic entertainment".

Once you realize this you'll understand that Nintendo aren't setting ANYTHING back, and that no developer or fan has anything to complain/worry about.

AMIRITE?

Nope. But I'm too hungover for this thread today. But I think thats...6?

 

[falz]

Counter Strike had voice chat? If it did, I never knew.

Only for over 6 years, if the date in this URL is correct:

http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/june01/hlmod2a/

I didnt play counter strike, but Team Fortress Clasic had voice chat for at least 5 years.

 

[traveler]

Until the Arcade drops, don't use a core 360 as a point of discussion.

Why not? As long as we're comparing it to the Wii, which lacks any significant HD support to speak of and whose games certainly aren't taking advantage of the kind of power that even an HD-less 360 is, I fail to see why it's not a valid comparision. Hell, XBL Silver is almost better than the Wii's online.

 

[Mgoblue201]

Demand for the Hula Hoop lasted 2 years, in which time they sold 100 million units. The defining characteristic of a fad isn't duration...it's irrational demand outside of normal target audience.

You assume that people buying the Wii are gaming converts, and that each installed console creates demand for additional software. That _may_ be true, but it may also be true that lot's of people are buying $250 Wii Sports machines. Gaming isn't and won't be a lifestyle for most new Wii buyers. It's a very real possibility that all those Wiis will end up occupying closet space. _If_ that happens, people who've invested development dollars won't recoup their investment.

Look at the videogame crash of the 80's. At the time, Atari had shipped 40 million 2600s (an underpowered, last gen system) and there were hundreds of 2600 titles in development. A year later sales dropped through the floor and dev studios starting going bankrupt. It _can_ happen.

I actually bought a Wii at launch, so I'm not "hating" on it out of console envy. I played and enjoyed Zelda, Wii Sports, and Elebits. Once the novelty wore off, I just wanted to play real games with a normal controller.

Gaming isn't a lifestyle for most people who buy a console. I mean most of them either buy 1) Singstar and Wii Sports, 2) GTA, True Crime, and Madden, or 3) endless amounts of licensed Bond and LotR. Going by the numbers, you can argue that there aren't any more people jumping into this generation, perhaps even less. Perhaps people are wary of buying a new system, and those people are being supplanted by new videogame players, but I think that's dubious. Now it might be correct to say that most Wii owners are casuals and thus won't buy as much software, but I don't think the numbers bare that out thus far. Keep in mind that there is a hardcore base on the Wii willing to buy games. There are twenty million Gamecube owners who bought an average of nine games, and it's pretty certain that most of those will migrate to the Wii.

I think people are just overestimating this whole blue ocean thing. I mean sure it's working, but it's not like ten million people who have never played a videogame just went out and bought a Wii. What's being underestimated is the amount of people who don't want to pay hundreds of dollars, who casually play games, who just want to have fun. As long as Nintendo keeps supplying games that these consumers want, then the Wii will keep selling. It's simple mathematics. If people are buying the system for Wii Sports, then you fuel that with games of a similar archetype. I mean you think people would've learned from the DS. Same target audience, same strategy. And none of what you said even comes close to applying to the DS because at the end of the day, people who have played games for years are still buying it.

 

[titiklabingapat]

I dunno; never played CS. Isn't it quite a bit more methodical and slower than the typical FPS anyhow? Besides, even if you could "get by" without it, why wouldn't you want something that makes it so much better?

Because the lack of this something "better" was in no way detrimental to my enjoyment of the game(RTS, never played CS).

It's why I'm excited about MH3 on the Wii, despite the existence of something "better" out there.

 

[Amir0x]

Lowered Expectations (Lowered standards for the greater justice of a Nintendo Wii future)

 

[Threi]

Why not? As long as we're comparing it to the Wii, which lacks any significant HD support to speak of and whose games certainly aren't taking advantage of the kind of power that even an HD-less 360 is, I fail to see why it's not a valid comparision. Hell, XBL Silver is almost better than the Wii's online.

I like saving games.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Lowered Expectations (Lowered standards for the greater justice of a Nintendo Wii future)

Or maybe I'm just not jaded enough

Let's face it, Monster Hunter 3 is coming to the Wii. Nothing that can be done about it.

 

[Amir0x]

As it appears to me, people who say they're not "jaded" are really just using that as an excuse to cover the fact that they refuse to criticize a company or ask for more of them, because they're feverishly biased.

Maybe I got it wrong? Did you play Monster Hunter 1 or 2?

 

[titiklabingapat]

As it appears to me, people who say they're not "jaded" are really just using that as an excuse to cover the fact that they refuse to criticize a company or ask for more of them, because they're feverishly biased.

Maybe I got it wrong? Did you play Monster Hunter 1 or 2?

Well excuse me, Mr Mod Psychoanalizer.

I never played any other MH but I've always wanted to. I'm not gonna make excuses, but I do like monsters.

 

[Amir0x]

oh ok guess my psychoanalysis wasn't too far from the mark

 

[titiklabingapat]

oh ok guess my psychoanalysis wasn't too far from the mark

That still doesn't change the fact that Monster Hunter 3 is on the Wii.

 

[Amir0x]

Did not say it did, tits

 

[titiklabingapat]

Well, let's go eat some chocolate then.

One question, does the PS2 MH require some sort of modem dongle to play?

My PS2 died long before Monster Hunter came out, and I've yet to buy a PSP.

Is it wrong for me to be excited for MH3?

Apparently so.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

As it appears to me, people who say they're not "jaded" are really just using that as an excuse to cover the fact that they refuse to criticize a company or ask for more of them, because they're feverishly biased.

Maybe I got it wrong? Did you play Monster Hunter 1 or 2?

My PS2 died long before Monster Hunter came out, and I've yet to buy a PSP.

Is it wrong for me to be excited for MH3?

 

[Amir0x]

No, not at all. There's nothing immoral about being biased. It's just easier to see where the motivations lie.

Not with good gameplay, but with a company logo.

 

[traveler]

Yeah, I honestly don't understand what you're getting at titik. It sounds very similar to Pepsiman's argument earlier. (i.e. I don't see how XBL/voice chat adds to something because I can get by without it)

I like saving games.

Fair enough. Make the price of the Core 360, say, $320 then and $300 now then. It's still not that great a difference.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

No, not at all. There's nothing immoral about being biased. It's just easier to see where the motivations lie.

Not with good gameplay, but with a company logo.

:lol :lol :lol

You're always "on" aren't you?

 

[Amir0x]

I'm sorta just running on Fruit Juice and the blood of slaughtered virgins.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Developers are afraid of investing millions of dollars on games for systems that just aren't selling. Looking at PS3 sales in the US and especially Japan it's not hard to see that.

Like it or not the Wii is the dominant system, and will most likely outsell the other consoles for the rest of this generation. I haven't seen much of anything innovative that justifies the Wii controller, but that's just me; I'm not a Wii fan. It seems like developers are still just throwing ports and remakes at the system, to poor sells. But even the games that developers work hard on don't sell for that system. Despite that, I'm sure developers make more money off Wii games.

If anything Nintendo is going to make Sony and MS realize that better technology is not the only way of the future. It's clear people aren't going to pay much over $300 for a gaming system, no matter how many snazzy movie players it has.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'm sorta just running on Fruit Juice and the blood of slaughtered virgins.

Cough syrup and vicadin...

 

[traveler]

For the record, I'm excited for MH3 as well, as I've never played the series but always wanted to. (Huge PSO fan and it's always looked like the logical continuation of that to me) I just think that, in the end, it would have been better served by a more online capable machine. I'm hoping Capcom goes heads and shoulders beyond all other Wii online efforts and completely proves me wrong; I just prepared for the more likely outcome.

 

[Amir0x]

i think i saw Monster Hunter 1 for 9.99 at Gamespot. I'm sure you can try and see if you like it

 

[traveler]

Developers are afraid of investing millions of dollars on games for systems that just aren't selling. Looking at PS3 sales in the US and especially Japan it's not hard to see that.

Like it or not the Wii is the dominant system, and will most likely outsell the other consoles for the rest of this generation. I haven't seen much of anything innovative that justifies the Wii controller, but that's just me; I'm not a Wii fan. It seems like developers are still just throwing ports and remakes at the system, to poor sells. But even the games that developers work hard on don't sell for that system. Despite that, I'm sure developers make more money off Wii games.

If anything Nintendo is going to make Sony and MS realize that better technology is not the only way of the future. It's clear people aren't going to pay much over $300 for a gaming system, no matter how many snazzy movie players it has.

So, you think they'd prefer to put their games on a system that sells well as opposed to a system where said games would sell well?

Edit: I only want to play one with a thriving online community, Ami. Like my comments have indicated, I have a lot of doubt about this one, but, as of right now, it still stands a chance since we don't really know how the online will work out.

 

[Jokeropia]

So, you think they'd prefer to put their games on a system that sells well as opposed to a system where said games would sell well?

PS3 and 360 games do not sell well in Japan. 360 games sell well in USA, but that doesn't help with Monster Hunter.

 

[Linkup]

Why not? As long as we're comparing it to the Wii, which lacks any significant HD support to speak of and whose games certainly aren't taking advantage of the kind of power that even an HD-less 360 is, I fail to see why it's not a valid comparision. Hell, XBL Silver is almost better than the Wii's online.

What exactly does XBL Silver allow you to do?

 

[traveler]

PS3 and 360 games do not sell well in Japan. 360 games sell well in USA, but that doesn't help with Monster Hunter.

Yeah, I know. I was just having fun with his (seemingly) contradictory post. (Hence the "")

Edit: Download DLC, have a friends list, leaderboards, dl Arcade games, etc. Basically everything besides play the actual games, which is why I said almost. Considering how many titles are actually worth playing online on the Wii, the lack of VC, the horrific fc system, and the lack of any kind multimedia downloads altogether, I'd say the two services are almost equal. (Right now- Smash Bros., Wii Ware, and DS Demos will change that.)

 

[Thunder Monkey]

i think i saw Monster Hunter 1 for 9.99 at Gamespot. I'm sure you can try and see if you like it

My PS2 is dead and floating in a sewer somewhere. Barely got me to ZOE2, let alone anything after.

I missed SH3, and MGS3. SotC, and GoW2.

And... Okami...

I'll never forgive Sony... my system was in pristine condition when it just stopped recognizing any disc. And I'd loved so many games on that thing.

Anyway, my first chance with the series will be with the Wii game. I'll likely get a PSP one day, and then I'll catch up on those games too.

 

[Amir0x]

sounds like you need a PS2

 

[Dragona Akehi]

i think i saw Monster Hunter 1 for 9.99 at Gamespot. I'm sure you can try and see if you like it

Aren't the PSP versions better (asides from NA having only ad-hoc)?

 

[HyperionX]

Developers are afraid of investing millions of dollars on games for systems that just aren't selling. Looking at PS3 sales in the US and especially Japan it's not hard to see that.

Like it or not the Wii is the dominant system, and will most likely outsell the other consoles for the rest of this generation. I haven't seen much of anything innovative that justifies the Wii controller, but that's just me; I'm not a Wii fan. It seems like developers are still just throwing ports and remakes at the system, to poor sells. But even the games that developers work hard on don't sell for that system. Despite that, I'm sure developers make more money off Wii games.

If anything Nintendo is going to make Sony and MS realize that better technology is not the only way of the future. It's clear people aren't going to pay much over $300 for a gaming system, no matter how many snazzy movie players it has.

PS2 last generation of real consoles for all time CONFIRMED.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

sounds like you need a PS2

I just into the PS2 a little early, paid a premium just to say I had it, and it barely lasted two years.

Me done with Sony consoles. I have hope for their handhelds though.

 

[Amir0x]

Aren't the PSP versions better (asides from NA having only ad-hoc)?

I think that if you're going to take Monster Hunter and remove one of its best features, why even bother? Plus they're a bit too similar to their PS2 counterparts for me to support, I don't support ports or almost ports or anything like that. I put I think a bazillion hours into MH 1+2, so i will wait for MH3 before jumping in again.

I just into the PS2 a little early, paid a premium just to say I had it, and it barely lasted two years.

Me done with Sony consoles. I have hope for their handhelds though.

Sounds like you should make smarter decisions with your money, instead of just buying consoles at a premium "just to say you have it."

I've had one Gamecube and one PS2 break, and I don't say "No more Nintendo or Sony systems!" But to each their own!

 

[Gattsu25]

Aren't the PSP versions better (asides from NA having only ad-hoc)?

If you can get online, the first game would be better on PS2

The 2nd PSP game is the best of them all, though

(speaking of NA only, no imports)

Regarding the Wii and how it might affect the upcoming generation: My PC might not be up to Evilore level...but I'm glad it's back in the game

 

[Linkup]

Yeah, I know. I was just having fun with his (seemingly) contradictory post. (Hence the "")

Edit: Download DLC, have a friends list, leaderboards, dl Arcade games, etc. Basically everything besides play the actual games, which is why I said almost. Considering how many titles are actually worth playing online on the Wii, the lack of VC, the horrific fc system, and the lack of any kind multimedia downloads altogether, I'd say the two services are almost equal. (Right now- Smash Bros., Wii Ware, and DS Demos will change that.)

You know it's pointless to have friends list, leaderboards, etc if you can't even play the game to compete.

Also being able to download Arcade games after you have got your 360 online and signed up for the basic account is an awesome feature.

 

[Kittonwy]

Developers are afraid of investing millions of dollars on games for systems that just aren't selling. Looking at PS3 sales in the US and especially Japan it's not hard to see that.

Like it or not the Wii is the dominant system, and will most likely outsell the other consoles for the rest of this generation. I haven't seen much of anything innovative that justifies the Wii controller, but that's just me; I'm not a Wii fan. It seems like developers are still just throwing ports and remakes at the system, to poor sells. But even the games that developers work hard on don't sell for that system. Despite that, I'm sure developers make more money off Wii games.

If anything Nintendo is going to make Sony and MS realize that better technology is not the only way of the future. It's clear people aren't going to pay much over $300 for a gaming system, no matter how many snazzy movie players it has.

I mean who's to say that MH3 wouldn't have sold well on the PS3 in what? Year 2008? Given there have been million sellers on the system? I can see that Capcom doesn't really have a whole lot of confidence in the PS3 right now (on the other hand Capcom has moved RE which was built on the PS1 to the GC even though PS2 was clearly the market leader), on the other hand, putting it on the wii isn't going to guarantee that MH3 would sell, in the meantime you have folks like myself who might not be hardcore fans but who have bought past MH games (MH1, 2 and freedom) who don't have a wii and won't be playing MH3, and might end up moving onto other IPs, and might never go back to MH.

But hey, good luck to Capcom with MH3 and their new audience on the wii.

 

[Threi]

Yeah, I honestly don't understand what you're getting at titik. It sounds very similar to Pepsiman's argument earlier. (i.e. I don't see how XBL/voice chat adds to something because I can get by without it)



Fair enough. Make the price of the Core 360, say, $320 then and $300 now then. It's still not that great a difference.

I live in Canada. Cores are rare, and $399.99.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

If you can get online, the first game would be better on PS2

The 2nd PSP game is the best of them all, though

(speaking of NA only, no imports)

Regarding the Wii and how it might affect the upcoming generation: My PC might not be up to Evilore level...but I'm glad it's back in the game

I'm thinking of getting the second PSP one (JPN). I do much more playing on handhelds these days...

 

[Linkup]

But hey, good luck to Capcom with MH3 and their new audience on the wii.

Yeah, I'm hope the franchise dies on the wii too.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I mean who's to say that MH3 wouldn't have sold well on the PS3 in what? Year 2008? Given there have been million sellers on the system? I can see that Capcom doesn't really have a whole lot of confidence in the PS3 right now (on the other hand Capcom has moved RE which was built on the PS1 to the GC even though PS2 was clearly the market leader), on the other hand, putting it on the wii isn't going to guarantee that MH3 would sell, in the meantime you have folks like myself who might not be hardcore fans but who have bought past MH games (MH1, 2 and freedom) who don't have a wii and won't be playing MH3, and might end up moving onto other IPs, and might never go back to MH.

But hey, good luck to Capcom with MH3 and their new audience on the wii.

I'm not convinced the PS3 is going to make a recovery anytime soon, but that's just my opinion. The Wii will offer a much larger base of possible buyers. It'll be interesting to see how it sells though. If it sells say 500,000 and disappears than clearly something is wrong. While that number would be good overall (and no doubt positively spun by the apologists in MC threads), it would definitely fail to meet Capcom's expectations.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Don't drink your gaming-related sorrows away! There's a more permanent solution:

That's just for attention. People who cut across the vein just want attention, people who cut with the vein really want to die.

He should cut with the vein.

 

[J-Rzez]

They're not the be all and end all either.

Not at all... But what happens when you have the hardware and creativity? See, I'm not saying there can't be good Wii games that the creativity is there and fresh... It could be vastly more fun than a run of the mill graphical/physics HD capable game... But people have this misconception that only the Wii can allow creativity, which is bullshit... Yeah, maybe the hardware is going to force devs into coming up with a twist to the regular formula, but doesn't make it a sure thing either...

And I'd hate to break it to those people but, a creative Wii game < an equally creative PS3/360 game because the hardware will allow to push the entire envelope (*See Little Big Planet) as visuals and physics clearly enhance the final product... There's no denying that...

And, to say "who needs voice chat" is the prime example of Amir0x's "Jaded" comment... Yeah, stuff didn't have it years ago, then got it, but when it's not there now, it sucks... (*See CoD3 PS3)... It enhances the community aspect greatly and allows levels of coordination that can not be on games without... Oh, and makes games more fun to joke around/trash talk...

 

[Crushed]

Not at all... But what happens when you have the hardware and creativity? See, I'm not saying there can't be good Wii games that the creativity is there and fresh... It could be vastly more fun than a run of the mill graphical/physics HD capable game... But people have this misconception that only the Wii can allow creativity, which is bullshit... Yeah, maybe the hardware is going to force devs into coming up with a twist to the regular formula, but doesn't make it a sure thing either...

And I'd hate to break it to those people but, a creative Wii game < an equally creative PS3/360 game because the hardware will allow to push the entire envelope (*See Little Big Planet) as visuals and physics clearly enhance the final product... There's no denying that...

And, to say "who needs voice chat" is the prime example of Amir0x's "Jaded" comment... Yeah, stuff didn't have it years ago, then got it, but when it's not there now, it sucks... (*See CoD3 PS3)... It enhances the community aspect greatly and allows levels of coordination that can not be on games without... Oh, and makes games more fun to joke around/trash talk...

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Proper widescreen support, true dolby digital 5.1 (Wii can't deliver), all the same modes, cheaper, and out a year before? Yeah, I'm the joke. 5 Vaginas.

Well you're wrong on a few things here, the Wii version supports proper widescreen, The PS2 version is NOT in DD5.1, besides the fact that the PS2 CAN'T do DD5.1 during gameplay and only during cut scenes. The PS2 version does not sport the same models, the geometry in the PS2 version for both enemies, environment and characters were cut down quite a bit, there's also less enemies on screen at a time.


Some one needs to get the sand out of their vagina before they get chlamydia.

 

[nib95]

I agree. The Wii has held back this generation of gaming. There's no reason they couldn't have used the Wii mote with much better (a la next-gen) hardware. As is the Wiimote could have just been a GC peripheral.

That said, I am glad that the Wii has ushered in so many casual gamers who perhaps wouldn't have gamed before. But that really doesn't do anything for the kind of gaming I'm personally interested in. So for me personally, yes the Wii is holding things back.

Prime example...Monster Hunter 3. I would have preferred it on the PS3/360, not just for proper next-gen visuals. But more scope/scale, better physics, better lighting etc etc

 

[Threi]

Yeah, I'm hope the franchise dies on the wii too.

you are hoping that a franchise dies because the latest installment is on a console you dislike?

jesus i need to find a way to ease myself off these forums...

 

[LCGeek]

I agree. The Wii has held back this generation of gaming. There's no reason they couldn't have used the Wii mote with much better (a la next-gen) hardware. As is the Wiimote could have just been a GC peripheral.

That said, I am glad that the Wii has ushered in so many casual gamers who perhaps wouldn't have gamed before. But that really doesn't do anything for the kind of gaming I'm personally interested in. So for me personally, yes the Wii is holding things back.

Prime example...Monster Hunter 3. I would have preferred it on the PS3/360, not just for proper next-gen visuals. But more scope/scale, better physics, better lighting etc etc

What hole of stupid did you crawl out of? Could've been a GC peripheral besides iwata and a engineer saying it had latency issues on early kits making a perirpheral on a dead system is just plain dumb. BC, size/heat, and money costs one could only guess more reasons why Wii was built the way it was. How can Wii hold a generation of gaming backwards for hardcore gamers when most of the titles they supposedly want to play aren't even on the system? Maybe you should blame the spineless publisher/devs who keep piddling for the most part the same ol ideas with a new coat of paint.

 

[Redd]

I agree. The Wii has held back this generation of gaming. There's no reason they couldn't have used the Wii mote with much better (a la next-gen) hardware. As is the Wiimote could have just been a GC peripheral.

That said, I am glad that the Wii has ushered in so many casual gamers who perhaps wouldn't have gamed before. But that really doesn't do anything for the kind of gaming I'm personally interested in. So for me personally, yes the Wii is holding things back.

Prime example...Monster Hunter 3. I would have preferred it on the PS3/360, not just for proper next-gen visuals. But more scope/scale, better physics, better lighting etc etc

Alot of it is our fault. Last generation not to many people bought the gamecube that spec wise was competive with xbox and Sony. Nintendo still made money with the gamecube with every console they sold so it wasn't a total failure.

Looking at the specs this generation I guess Nintendo figured they couldn't compete with anymore so tried making a console that would make money from them day one. In my opinion if they know how well the Wii would sell they would have put more juice in it. Seriously they were third last time, no one knew.

Hurts the gamer sure but last time I checked all the companies are in it for the money and not the gamer.

 

[MisterHero]

either that, or Nintendo offered them a ton of money.

You have to wonder where was the media when Sony got SoulCalibur 3 exclusively for PS2 when SC2 sold better on Gamecube. Probably because Sony offered them money and publishing the game themselves for certain regions (thus saving Namco some money?). Oh yeah Namco's a bunch of crooks for trying to save some money.

to put Final Fantasy XIII on the Wii due to "high development costs"

Don't worry, FF will still pack all the fancy-schmancy CGI video. Hell, they're doing it on DS.

I don't depend on MMO-ish game for being a visual powerhouse, on ANY platform. So as far to how good Monster Hunter looks doesn't matter to me. If it mattered that much to Capcom how good it looked, they might have put the last two installments on something other than PSP.

Hey I'd welcome Phantasy Star Universe to the Wii. I loved PSO on GC so why not?

They've made us think that the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 might be too ahead of their own time, and here we are thinking, man, the Wii would be great if it had a hard drive and HD support.

Boo-hoo. So were Neo-Geo, 3D0, Saturn, and any of the portable hardware that went up against the GameBoy. Like the platforms before them, PS3/360's respective prices did the talking.

I mean, look at the PS2. It's still selling more than its successor. I guess that's Nintendo's fault too.

 

[schuelma]

Judging from threads like these since Wednesday, it looks like GAF has collectively moved from "disbelief" to "anger". I hope acceptance is the next stage.