curiouscharles
Member
u w0t?
in TF1 PC, gamepad players get aim assist just like the console players... and that's... how it should be?
no, it's really not like saying that at all.
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Titanfall 2 Multiplayer Technical Test Impressions (XB1/PS4)
- Thread starter Jarmel
- Start date
u w0t?
in TF1 PC, gamepad players get aim assist just like the console players... and that's... how it should be?
no, it's really not like saying that at all.
That's understandable but it should still be a nonissue for any decent player going up against a controller player. If you're losing to the controller player then you're just that much worse than he is. His aim assist isn't making him better than you, he just IS better than you and if he knew how to use the kb/m then he'd more likely be EVEN BETTER than you.
Get what i'm saying?
Not sure why you're suffering from a mental gap here.... aim-assist is needed on controllers to make it workable, it's not a hack.
Exactly.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
So the game doesn't support controllers for multiplayer. It's really not a big deal. Blizzard knew what was up. They disabled controller aim assist because they knew the potential to abuse it was a real problem. And that game last I heard is still going strong. RE should take note.
Bornstellar
Member
Except that just isn't true. Given two equally skilled players using a g2a4, the one using the controller will win any engagement at medium / long distance always.
You're gonna have to explain that mental gymnastic feat.
Bornstellar
Member
I don't think that's true at all but let me entertain it. Even if that was the case, your advantages in every other aspect of the game would be superior.
- 180 turn speed
- overall mobility
- headshot precision capabilities
- bunnyhopping
- air strafing
- multitasking
All of this and more are advantages you would have over the controller player and you still gonna complain?
You don't know if that's why they did it, maybe they did it because they knew the bitching ( even though unwarranted and unjustified) was better to avoid
Because i will put up money right now if you can find me a controller player or team that can match a PC team. Holy fuck just look at the vast differences in the gameplay between the two on twitch.
it's not even comparable man. the sniping on PC is fucking INSANE. This is such a ridiculous comparison you just shot your argument dead with this one lol.
Bornstellar
Member
The precision argument is bogus because a controller gets a precision boost getting even remotely close to target. Whereas a KB/M player will miss the same shot every time. It is 100 percent bullshit. Simply put, a controller user will get hits on shots that a kb/m player would never get, ESPECIALLY, in a game as fast as Titanfall.
It does not matter. Top level PC players would be so fast as to trump any potential advantage a controller player could have. This is simply whining.
But Titanfall 1 allows controller use, and I have not observed that at all.
Bornstellar
Member
Comp matches against controller players like Fenrir show this to be 100 percent false.
RichiRamjag
Member
This is spot on. Even with aim-assist, any player worth their salt should be capable taking them out 1v1. There are way more advantages to the m/kb control scheme.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I do know that is why they did it because Jeff Kaplan the game director said as much.
I can't directly link you to the thread because it was posted on the game's beta forum (no longer access to) but you can see the discussion on reddit about using software to trick the game into thinking you're using a controller. People described it as an undetectable aimbot: https://m.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/3qhkm9/please_turn_off_aim_assist_for_gamepads_blizzard/
And here is a site reporting on the change with a screenshot of the post kaplan made. http://masteroverwatch.com/news/3-aim-assist-causing-unfair-advantages-will-now-be-disabled-on-pc
You can still see the date it was posted by searching kaplan's post history, it's the 5th post he made on the forum so it's easy to find: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/search?a=Jeff Kaplan&page=80 - the link goes to that first link I provided. The content of the post says "We will be disabling the gamepad aim assist option in an upcoming beta patch. We're doing our best to get that patch out later today. In the meantime, please refrain from "testing" this feature. Thanks so much for identifying the issue." The date for the record was october 28th.
And here is the patch notes posted on October 30th where they disabled it: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/19650315093
We know 100% why controller aim assist was disabled on PC.
Bornstellar
Member
. Thank you.
Heck no. Failing to prevent an issue is not reason to leave the problem unresolved.
If my memory serves me correctly he played a few matches on console and did not do so well against us. So, that whole group on the subbreddit that thinks they'd wipe the floor with the top console players should rethink it.
Which begs the question- if the aim assist is such an advantage why did they think they'd win? they were so sure of it. Anyways, top PC teams would still wipe the floor with the top console teams in any FPS with aim assist for controllers, and on average pc players would win out as well.
People that are whining are people that are making excuses for why they lost. End of story.
I misread you then. I thought you meant they took it out because controller players would have an advantage, not that people would trick the game into thinking it was a controller and then using kb/m with aim assist.
he's making a completely different argument.
Bornstellar
Member
Probably wasn't used to everyone else having the same amount of aim assist. I guarantee the hit percentage is generally higher on console. Tell me, how do you feel about XIM users on console?
Are you saying XIM users that would take advantage of the aim assist? I'd hate it, but that's not the original argument you had.
And still i wouldn't want XIM users even without aim-assist for precisely the reasons i've already stated to you. Now, i wouldn't be completely against cross play where the matchmaking could put the exceptional PC players out of my range so i didn't have to deal with them. I'd be more than willing to play pc players i had a chance against.
Pegasus Actual
Member
Bornstellar
Member
My argument is that controller users have a massive advantage when engaging at medium / long distances. Those who disagree either haven't compared it for themselves (as I have), or are willfully ignorant. Compounding on this is the fact that it is trivial to trick the game into believing kb/m input is a controller thus granting a "undetectable aimbot" for these kb/m users.
*hic* Hi guys!
Bornstellar
Member
Any chance you all can comment on aim assist on PC?
It's not a massive advantage, especially considering that aim-assist can hinder you aiming while two targets are close in proximity to one another as the aim-assit can pull you towards the target you are actually not aiming at. Still, even if it was an advantage it's only 1, compared to the multitude of advantages allowed with kb/m.
The second part i didn't know about and that does suck. It's something Microsoft should possibly address within the controllers or windows itself. Don't know how they could combat that. But that's why i don't deal with PC gaming. Wall hacks, aim bots, overall cheating. Not my thing. I'll stick with console.
please don't
I'd rather ague about the Arc Cannon
If we get locked I'll shin kick someone
Bornstellar
Member
Swol, I've played on both PC with kb/m, and with controller, and Xbone, so please trust me when I say I'm speaking from some experience when it comes to the differences between them. When playing mid, those other advantages are pretty irrelevant compared to the advantages gained.
Furthermore, none of those PC issues have to exist so long as Respawn gives that version the attention it deserves.
You're going off the rails here Born.
You're talking about 1 position, 1 aspect of the game as if Titanfall is played strictly on a mid section slanted rooftop in a CTF match. Come on dude.
Bornstellar
Member
TBF, that's been a LOT of my experience as a runner. Getting shot by those dudes that is.
Hip Hop
Member
I would not buy the game at all if PC does not have aim assist for controllers.
Keep it in please. It's the reason why I still play the first game otherwise I wouldn't be on as much.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I get that you can see it but after I played TF2 and felt underwhelmed I went back and tried Titanfall for the first time in a while* and it's just so much better, Titanfall is super intense and exciting. Titanfall 2 is a little boring by comparison. Whoever said that the sequel feels like the prequel and the original game is the one where they nailed the idea was totally right, imo. If you get the chance to play it, get Titanfall, it is amazing. An Xbox one and Ea access is not expensive...
*I'd still be playing if I hadn't maxed out the achievements and generations.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Wow this weird thread about m/kB vs controller. There are probably like less than 1000 people in the world who will play this on pc with a controller. Not worth the kind of time it would take to balance it properly.
I'm extremely surprised to see that people believe controller users will have an advantage over mouse users.
The whole reason aim-assist exist is because it's so much harder to get a cursor to where you need it using a joystick. Even with aim-assists, KB/m allows for much more precision. While controller users are trying to account for aim-assist, aim acceleration, and magnetism - often overcompensating - mouse users just point and click.
Just look at high level PC footage of Titan fall 1 and compare it to high level Xbox play. The PC players are doing manuevers and landing shots a console player could never dream of.
The whole reason aim-assist exist is because it's so much harder to get a cursor to where you need it using a joystick. Even with aim-assists, KB/m allows for much more precision. While controller users are trying to account for aim-assist, aim acceleration, and magnetism - often overcompensating - mouse users just point and click.
Just look at high level PC footage of Titan fall 1 and compare it to high level Xbox play. The PC players are doing manuevers and landing shots a console player could never dream of.
Pegasus Actual
Member
It doesn't sound like they are going to esports all that hard with this game, they did say no competitve at launch. I'm guessing they're not going to try to alienate the growing PC gaming on a couch crowd by killing aim assist.
Damn, SwolBro caught a ban. That's gotta be like the official end to the Titanfall 2 tech test.
Damn, SwolBro caught a ban. That's gotta be like the official end to the Titanfall 2 tech test.
...well that sounds like just the dumbest thing I could possibly choose to-
OH CHILD. OH NO YOU DIDN'T.
...okay.
Hmmm.
There's a few things to unpack here.
But First, Let's Address This
Absolutely not true.
Neither Titanfall game modifies a player's shots ("bends bullets", or etc) because of the control method. 0%. Not at all. The server doesn't even know what input you're using. The server doesn't care. Where a shot will go if you fire that frame and how your weapon will kick & react from it are 100% identical. Our weapons logic (which the server & client share and identically simulate/predict) gives zero shits about the input method.
So; no. Weapon behavior, 0% difference between input methods.
Now Then
By themselves, analog sticks are not fantastic input devices for a modern FPS's look/aim controls. For raw input they are clumsy and sweeping and twitchy.
Think of stick aim input at any moment as a point on a 2D graph. With analog input, the stick is physically at a point in space that corresponds to a point on that graph. You're inputing a specific down-and-to-the-left to the game because you've physically pushed the stick to that point in space.
To get to any other point of input (say; one in the lower-right), you have to physically sweep the stick over to that new position, passing through all points in-between. This is clumsy at best. Even the most agile thumbs will have a tough time hitting a new position in < 1/60 of a second.
But now remember that the stick input isn't even going in as simple "degrees", it's translated into "degrees per second". Time is a factor.
Compare all of this (lower-order nightmare) to the immediate, 1-to-1, nearly-independent-of-the-previous-moment's-action, godlike input that is a mouse. Laughing is okay; go ahead. That thing is almost too perfect, isn't it?
So What's a Dev to Do?
In very coarse terms, I'd describe the goal of aimassist (at least in Titanfall) as "subtly help the player do what they're trying to do, without playing for them or changing any rules".
We assist stick aim in two main ways. Broadly put:
- Dampen look input if crosshair is already over a target. Friction.
- Turn look input slightly towards a target as you strafe relative to them, if crosshair is already on their bounds.
Again; this is all on the client. The server doesn't care. Weapon logic is unchanged.
That Said
In a PC game that doesn't modify weapon logic for input method, that's not very scary.
Aimbot, nah.
Friction would be a bad crutch (if they're terrible with a mouse it probably helps, but if they're average or better it's just going to screw with them & cap their skill).
Strafe compensation would be nice, I think; but hardly game-changing. Nothing that other (especially mouse-) players should be afraid of.
I think that's still worth addressing, but it's in the domain of anticheat at worst.
If You REALLY Want to Get a Leg Up On Other PC Players
...use a 144hz monitor.
...use a 144hz monitor.
I remember that being a thing with the smart pistol.
Oh god, yeah. Its lock-on logic was tied to command rate (whooooooops), and not time. That got patched. =p
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Wait, people are activley suggesting they should disable gamepad support in multiplayer?
Jesus Christ.
Ya'll realize that some PC gamers use a gamepad exclusively right?
Jesus Christ.
Ya'll realize that some PC gamers use a gamepad exclusively right?
Halo 5 has the shittiest aiming of any FPS I ever played. I can play every shooter perfectly fine on PC and Console, but Halo 5 takes me days to get used to it. That's the same reason they have patched aiming twice.
TItanfall 2 has a perfect aiming mechanism for all players. Respawn would be dumb to change it when no one complained.
--
Just saw Rayme's response - great stuff.
True. In some circumstances a controller with aim assist has some advantages and in others it really doesn't. Overall a mouse will be faster and more precise.
Because a controller and a mouse are so different, it's difficult to balance them. Because which metric are you going to use? Allowing both mouse/kb and controllers with aim assist does add some unpredictability. You can't know how well the opponent is going to be able to use or counter specific tactics if you don't know if they're using a mouse or a controller with aim assist.
Right, the inherent qualities of mouse input makes acquiring and sustaining a target much easier than it would be on an assisted controller.
In trying to make controllers feel closer to mice, control is largely taken away from the user as the game tries to guess the users intentions. This generally makes aiming feel smooth, but it isn't uncommon to issues with improper interpretations, especially when engaging multiple opponents/objects at once.
Couple that with the fact that controllers inherently have a response based on distance/time (compared to 1:1 displacement) and you have an inherently inferior control method.
So yes, assists help controller users. But the idea that they have an advantage is just false. Mouse is so good that even w/o assists turning and aiming is much easier and responsive that controller users are behind the curve.
7DollarHagane
Banned
I loved how the beta controlled with respect to hipfiring the smgs. It felt so good to be able to be mobile and aim and rapture at distance. Sure you didnt always win but with some skill and a little luck you could pick off those roof campers. And if not just flank em.
erotic grandpa
Member
For all my misgivings with the beta, I'll definitely give it that. Flanking a camper and gunning them down (or grapple-kicking them from behind) was one of my favorite things to do by the second weekend.
Bornstellar
Member
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
As far as mouse users not needing to fear the aim assist effect, clearly you never played against Aetkas' chain gun when he still used controller.
To quote one FrothyOmen:
At the very least, please consider an option to disable aim assist in private matches.
Is the only part that really matters. The whole problem is that unpredictable movement is less likely to throw off aim assist since the game logic doesn't rely on prediction the same way a player using raw input has to. Aim assist drags the cursor the right direction regardless (again, at medium or long distance). I've done the side by side comparison myself and found controller aim assist did make consistently hitting targets easier. That said, I also run an extremely high mouse sensitivity to the detriment of consistency, so I will admit bias in that regard.
As far as mouse users not needing to fear the aim assist effect, clearly you never played against Aetkas' chain gun when he still used controller.
To quote one FrothyOmen:
At the very least, please consider an option to disable aim assist in private matches.
I'm confused here: TF1 had crossplatform play and a console pro team made PC pros quit because the console team was better because of the console SKU's aiming aides?
1) TF1 didn't have crossplatform play. (Did it?)
2) If there wasn't crossplatform play, then why are pro players from PC TF1 trying to play on console with a controller? They will get trounced because they're not going to be as good as a dedicated console pro team that are familiar with a controller as an input device.
Or is this about players using controllers on PC?
1) TF1 didn't have crossplatform play. (Did it?)
2) If there wasn't crossplatform play, then why are pro players from PC TF1 trying to play on console with a controller? They will get trounced because they're not going to be as good as a dedicated console pro team that are familiar with a controller as an input device.
Or is this about players using controllers on PC?
This is beginning to sound extremely elitist now. Isn't FrothyOmen a XIM4 user on console?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XuiXPf--AY it isn't Titanfall, but this works as a comparison right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XuiXPf--AY it isn't Titanfall, but this works as a comparison right?