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Transgaf: 'cause boys will be girls (and vice versa)
- Thread starter lexi
- Start date
Jeff Albertson
Member
I think it was you who posted a pic on a bridge in a Zoo and it cracked me up.Alfarif said:
The fairy princess pic sealed it, reminde me of something i'd do. In fact i have pictures of me on our honeymoon wearing minnie mouse princess ears.
Haha, yeah, that was me. That bridge was HIGH (about six inches off the ground). I was going to do a weekly post with that face but I don't know if that would go over so well. Here's me picking up produce... here's me playing games with my brother in law... here's me surfing GAF... That one would have included bugged out eyes. Maybe I'll still do it and post it as my response to threads that are just... weird.
Oh, and we have to see this picture of the Mickey Mouse ears. DOOOOO IT!
Edit: because I'm a dumbass.
Oh, and we have to see this picture of the Mickey Mouse ears. DOOOOO IT!
Edit: because I'm a dumbass.
Jeff Albertson
Member
No chance i'm doing the ugliest face I could to give the wife a laugh, it would give people nightmares
sorry for the hijack
edit: ha ha just looked though the honeymoon pic on my phone and found one of me holding up a Cinderella dress against me for size
sorry for the hijack
edit: ha ha just looked though the honeymoon pic on my phone and found one of me holding up a Cinderella dress against me for size
Jeff Albertson
Member
This is going to ruin my macho image portrayed in my avatar but:
JumpJeff84
Member
Jeff Albertson said:This is going to ruin my macho image portrayed in my avatar but:
Dude, I don't think you can pass before at least getting a shave. Sorry.
Jamie xxoo
Member
Instigator said:
Oh Instigator. =(
I've only seen The Crying Game of the 3 movies you listed. What did I think of it? Actually when I first saw it I thought it was boring :lol. Looking back though I think it handled the whole reveal/reaction situation very realistically. I think in that situation a lot of guys would feel sick initially and then find themselves still caring but not able to bring themselves to have a physical relationship. I know *I* get guys who start treating me protectively/warmly and who clearly think of me as a girl on some level but they would never kiss me. So from that perspective I thought it was accurate (I also relate to Dil assuming that Fergus knew. Back when I first watched it I wondered how he or anyone else watching could NOT know - and this was a long time before i started researching transition or admitting to myself openly that I was trans). I also thought it showed the pain/trauma of having to revert back to a guy (when he cut her hair and put her in cricket gear) and how it showed that that image just really didn't work for Dil anyway - by that point in the movie Dil was definitely a woman, penis or not, and you could still tell even with cut hair and men's clothes. So yeah, I thought it was good. I was also happy to see that the trans character WASN'T the evil psycho one.
zoukka said:Well I can say that theå only problem you have is between your ears. And I don't mean your noseSo stop worrying about those looks and prepare for the summer... I bet you're the target of mass ooglin on the streets.
Hottest girl-user on GAF easily.
Oh and I have a transgender fellow student and It's been really interesting to see him transfer from a girl to a boy in just six months or so. Amazing what science can do.
Thanks zoukka, but we're about to start Winter where I live lol. Trans men often look indistinguishable from genetic men - testosterone is a powerful, transformative hormone. Add chest surgery and about 6 months of working out and bam... total dude. I find it amazing that there are none on GAF who read OT - maybe they just don't want to say they are trans publicly because their friends here don't know.
Aigis said:
Well even if they looked at everything, who cares? You'll ever see them again. Definitely lock it next time though.
Exhumed said:
Thanks hun. =)
lexi said:
*hugs* wish I could make it better. You looked terrific in your interview outfit pic that you showed me before. Maybe it's just the tall blond effect?
Alfarif said:
Those photos were hilarious. Do it!
Jeff Albertson said:
LOL I thought you were the guy in your avatar again and went through the whole "Wait - he's WHITE??? BETRAYED!!" routine before I remembered we've done this before.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Jamie xxoo said:
Do you imagine everyone is thier avatar?
Jamie xxoo
Member
Are you saying they're NOT?
My whole world is crumbling...
My whole world is crumbling...
Update on interview.
I waited half an hour and the interviewer didn't show. I thought half an hour was a polite time to wait before actually contacting them and asking them where were they. I called and he apologized and came down to meet me. (This means he should be getting in my good graces, right?)
So the interview progresses as normal and he says he'll be interviewing 5 more people for the role and I should know by this afternoon. I'm not hopeful, the whole thing is a shambles, he asked me to email him some additional references etc and it seems his email DNS is down.
Positive of the day: Got maam'ed by the Sushi chef while buying lunch.
I waited half an hour and the interviewer didn't show. I thought half an hour was a polite time to wait before actually contacting them and asking them where were they. I called and he apologized and came down to meet me. (This means he should be getting in my good graces, right?)
So the interview progresses as normal and he says he'll be interviewing 5 more people for the role and I should know by this afternoon. I'm not hopeful, the whole thing is a shambles, he asked me to email him some additional references etc and it seems his email DNS is down.
Positive of the day: Got maam'ed by the Sushi chef while buying lunch.
Jamie xxoo
Member
I've had interviews like that before where it seems everything went wrong and I went home just writing the whole thing off - but then I got the job. So you never know. =) If you don't, hey it was low pay anyway right? And each time you do this you get more prepared for the next interview.
I remember when I auditioned to get into the conservatory I screwed up my audition pieces from nerves, I insulted one of the interviewers by not being able to pronounce her Russian name, I made an IDIOT out of myself at the end of the audition by misunderstanding something that was said and going off on a ramble (think of Courtney Cox's foot-in-mouth moments from Cougar Town) which made the interviewer have to suppress a laugh, and then in the theory test I thought I screwed up all the cadences on the aural section and ran out of time on the harmony writing exercise. I went home and bawled my eyes out. 3 weeks later I had a letter saying I beat 300 applicants to get one of the 30 piano spots. So you never know how it will turn out despite feelings on the day!
Edit: P.S. if you got maamed by the sushi guy who was right in your face it's very likely you were getting looks because of your blonde hair/professional outfit.
I remember when I auditioned to get into the conservatory I screwed up my audition pieces from nerves, I insulted one of the interviewers by not being able to pronounce her Russian name, I made an IDIOT out of myself at the end of the audition by misunderstanding something that was said and going off on a ramble (think of Courtney Cox's foot-in-mouth moments from Cougar Town) which made the interviewer have to suppress a laugh, and then in the theory test I thought I screwed up all the cadences on the aural section and ran out of time on the harmony writing exercise. I went home and bawled my eyes out. 3 weeks later I had a letter saying I beat 300 applicants to get one of the 30 piano spots. So you never know how it will turn out despite feelings on the day!
Edit: P.S. if you got maamed by the sushi guy who was right in your face it's very likely you were getting looks because of your blonde hair/professional outfit.
NewGamePlus said:
Woah, I never even thought of that. So that's why a lot of frat boys relate to the Halo series. :lol
While being drunk after drinking a margarita. Sadly, I barely see any dudes openly drink them
As for the topic, I have nothing but a round of applause for the brave women who are transitioning.
While I was at the IRS building a few days ago, I swore I saw some f2m dudes. They are rather short for dudes but they have the manliest beards around. I hope they did not think I was disgusted by them since I do not see many people that were treated for gender dysphoria at the same room. I am good friends online with someone who is transitioning to womanhood and I feel proud for her. She is into cosplay and one of the best online nerd chat pals I had in a while.
Throughout the years, I envied some aspects of femininity but I realize that I like being a dude. Especially when I am romantically involved with women.
If I were really female, I would exclusively want to cosplay as male characters.
Himuro said:
I believe Jamie transitioned in the same job and it sounds like it went very well for her. Another thing I can be jealous about.
I only lodged my name change last week. I think they would be used to it, once I get all the documentation back I'll be changing all my ID, etc.
JumpJeff84
Member
Question for you, Lexi...
How has this thread compared to the expectations you had when you first created it?
How has this thread compared to the expectations you had when you first created it?
Davedough said:
In an effort to continue confusing people, I definitely all the person in my avatar.
Jamie xxoo said:
All right, all right. I'll do it for you, Jamie. Don't say I've never done anything for you!
Oh heck, who am I kidding? I already changed my stupid Facebook profile and page avatar to the screamers with an update about eyes watching me.
Whoompthereitis said:
It's wayyyy bigger then I thought it would be. First of all I didn't know GAF had such a high proportion of transgirls (no transguys yet).
I expected the thread might fritter away after a few bitchy / whiny posts from me and maybe an occasional post from the only 2 other transgirls I knew of on GAF at the time.
JumpJeff84
Member
I have the person in my avatar tattooed on my body, so there's that...
NewGamePlus
Member
I think I'm a bit late but good luck anyways Lexi.
I think you accidentally a word.Alfarif said:
NewGamePlus
Member
You know, it was cool when everyone came out, like suddenly realizing that I wasn't as alone as I thought. But at the same time, it was a bit disconcerting when I realized that everyone who I had ever seen defending transexuals on this board were in fact transgendered. Luckily we've had an outpouring of support since then, but at first I was like -_-lexi said:
NewGamePlus
Member
Thank you, I really liked that. I myself, was beginning to notice how transwomen always seem to be portrayed as immature, emotional messes. Ok, it might not be completely unfounded, but it is especially annoying when I've seen the opposite with transmen. They can often be grounded and level-headed. *Sigh* but maybe that's just the media's way of trying to be supportive. See these people are totally crazy just like REAL girls, and these people over here totally cool just like REAL guys.Himuro said:
NewGamePlus
Member
Hey, but you function, right? You're not antisocial and you went to a job interview today. I bet a concerned cisgendered friend or a therapist didn't even have to convince you to go. But I digress, I thought the Glamour article was good too and pretty positive overall.lexi said:
Android18a
Member
Jeff Albertson said:This is going to ruin my macho image portrayed in my avatar but:
Mrs Doubtfire ain't got nothin' on you, bro!
*is being naughty, sitting at work with a milkshake with the sun streaming through the windowblinds before anyone else turns up*
NewGamePlus
Member
Yeah, that in itself probably has a lot to do with why I'm reluctant to identify as female. Bleh, you know I just had a lot to say, but now I've completely derailed my thoughts.Himuro said:
Jamie xxoo
Member
The only problem I had with the article was that it only told one person's story with no explanation that every transwoman is different. I think Amy's version of female identity/femininity is perfectly valid, but it does give the impression that because she feels that way, all transwomen are that way. Also it's clearly an article designed for entertainment by telling a story that has a narrative with a happy ending, and should be read as such.
As for being immature or un-self-aware, that could be the kind of person she is! Again, the only problem with this is that the story is presented without any mention that everyone is different.
I can see though how the article could be quite isolating for transwomen who do not identify with the gender binary though, and I know how frustrating it is to have assumptions made about you that aren't true.
Also how awesome does the girl in the story look?
As for being immature or un-self-aware, that could be the kind of person she is! Again, the only problem with this is that the story is presented without any mention that everyone is different.
I can see though how the article could be quite isolating for transwomen who do not identify with the gender binary though, and I know how frustrating it is to have assumptions made about you that aren't true.
Also how awesome does the girl in the story look?
NewGamePlus
Member
Super-awesome, just like youJamie xxoo said:
Jamie xxoo said:
I haven't been able to read the article because I'm at work, but how much of that is transwomen and how much of it is just being a woman? I mean... women don't play games, or enjoy computers, or like science, or doing yard work, or working on cars, or....
Jamie xxoo
Member
@NewGamePlus Awwwww. =) I thought you'd hate me because I was one of those girl girls too! Funnily enough I couldn't reply straight away because I was feeding a baby. :lol
A friend I met through YouTube plays a lot of videogames, plays in a band (she plays the Korg emulator on the DS, live on stage - how AWESOME is that?), is in a senior testing role, and is writing her own game in her spare time. She's also lesbian.
Another transwoman I have seen on YouTube drives trucks, is covered in tatts, and can't be bothered to wear makeup. She likes men.
There are all kinds of transwomen who identify as different types of feminine all up and down the spectrum from glamor queen to girl next door to butch lesbian. There are lesbian transwomen, straight ones, bi, pansexual and non-sexual ones. Transitioning from male to female because of how you feel you identify does not come with any requirements to change the person you are. It's *supposed* to be about living as your most authentic self.
@Alfarif Good point!
A friend I met through YouTube plays a lot of videogames, plays in a band (she plays the Korg emulator on the DS, live on stage - how AWESOME is that?), is in a senior testing role, and is writing her own game in her spare time. She's also lesbian.
Another transwoman I have seen on YouTube drives trucks, is covered in tatts, and can't be bothered to wear makeup. She likes men.
There are all kinds of transwomen who identify as different types of feminine all up and down the spectrum from glamor queen to girl next door to butch lesbian. There are lesbian transwomen, straight ones, bi, pansexual and non-sexual ones. Transitioning from male to female because of how you feel you identify does not come with any requirements to change the person you are. It's *supposed* to be about living as your most authentic self.
@Alfarif Good point!
NewGamePlus
Member
Part of what is being discussed is that the article mentions that she acted like a girl pre-transition. Not all transwomen do. There are some that just can't develop a male persona (read: children with GID), but many (if not most) do. They'll be completely convincing males just never truly identify as such. Err, I'm trying not to use myself as an example since I don't feel like fit the binary well, but also to your point I couldn't actually tell you what specifically constitutes a male versus a female persona. Wow, I really I can't think straight tonight. My thoughts are like all over the place. Could that like be related to the hormones?Alfarif said:
Edit: Hah, and my SoCal tendency to overuse the word like apparently sneaks into my posts when my thoughts wonder.
NewGamePlus
Member
What? No no no no. How do you know what you'd look like after transition? You're not ugly to begin with anyways. And you can always lose weight, and until you do, overweight transwomen actually tend to look more feminine. Why put off obtaining congruity in your life?
If that article is setting the golden standard of how to transition successfully I am failing MISERABLY and I'd say Jamie is too.
The whole thing plays out like the typical transgender stereotype. You don't need to conform to this to be genuine or legitimate. I mean, I never wanted to play with dolls, and I hated sports and physical activity too. I was content playing prince of persia on an amiga.
Everybody is different!
The whole thing plays out like the typical transgender stereotype. You don't need to conform to this to be genuine or legitimate. I mean, I never wanted to play with dolls, and I hated sports and physical activity too. I was content playing prince of persia on an amiga.
Everybody is different!
lexi said:
You already do, Ms. Model. :lol
Jamie xxoo said:
So true.
You know, this conversation (and article, I guess) remind me of that documentary I watched awhile back where butch lesbians were pretty angry at transgendered female to male because they were "on their territory," to the point that women in the femme movement said something to the effect of "Do I have to grow a dick to be recognized at this point?"
I think that was a tangent for no reason. My brain is mush right now, and I'm not on hormones. *looks at NewGamePlus* The heck did you do to me?
EDIT: Removed Ainsley's post.
NewGamePlus
Member
Replace Amiga with Mac Quadra and you have me too. Then since there was never anything else on the Mac except Myst, I fell in love with consoles. Oh, SNES how I love you so.lexi said:
Jamie xxoo
Member
Himuro said:
When I decided to transition I took steps to make sure that the next job I would get would be with a company that had a HR department and that had some mention of equal opportunity on its website, as being transgender is covered in equal opportunity laws in my state.
When I started at the company I had everyone call me Jamie. I just said that that was what I had always been called and that I was going to change my name to it legally soon. I was lucky to have found a female name that felt like home to me, which also happened to be a guy's name, so I could use it before coming out. I didn't plan it that way, it just happened. Originally I wanted to call myself "Caitlin", because I love that name, but I just couldn't make it fit me. "Jamie" came along and I was like - THAT'S ME!
After I had been there 6 months and passed from being on probation to being a full employee (and therefore protected by the equal opportunity laws), I knew I would be able to transition at work any time.
I had a meeting with my manager and told him I wanted to meet with him and HR to talk about some changes in my life that would become apparent at work soon, so they could be ready to deal with the situation. He knew almost immediately what I was talking about, and I ended up telling him there and then. He organized a meeting with a woman from HR a few days later. At the meeting the HR woman just let me know that the company was 100% behind me and wouldn't let me take crap from anyone. I gave her a copy of True Selves because it had some examples of how companies handled comings-out at work, and we talked about, when I was ready to change, having a meeting with my team, having a meeting with all the managers, sending around an email, and maybe having a gender therapist I used to see come in and give a talk to the company. We decided we'd do all this, then I'd go on a break, and after the break I would come back as female.
Nothing happened for a few months after that. My manager kept bringing it up in one-on-ones and checking to see if I was ready yet. I was still getting facial hair removal done and wasn't prepared to try and pull off a female presentation. We talked about me just using my female voice and being a woman on the phone with customers, but then when we talked to HR about it it was decided that would be no good because of interacting with other staff on the phones in front of customers - the customer wouldn't know what was going on because the staff would be calling me he and him, so I'd have to come out to the staff to do that. Management was happy for me to identify as female at work but present myself as male, but they said (rightly so) that they couldn't really come down on anyone who used the wrong pronouns with me purposefully because I wouldn't be giving any visual indication that I wanted to be treated female. They were still happy for me to do it, but I thought it was too problematic.
Finally, after being on hormones 2 months, I wanted to go "full time" - that is, live as female 24/7. So I told my manager I was going to be ready within the next 3 months to do it. We met with HR and my manager's manager. SHE was fantastic - so supportive.
She'd worked with someone who went through transition at work before and was really excited for me. She decided no company-wide email was necessary if I didn't want one (I felt like it was broadcasting my personal life to hundreds of people unnecessarily when only 50% of them worked with me), and that management didn't need a gender therapist to explain it all to them, she was just going to tell management that I was transitioning and would be respected as female from now on because that's what their equal opportunity policy says they should do, same as respecting someone gay or muslim or disabled or whatever. The work culture at this place was very respectful of difference. It was just a call center, but it was part of a larger company that lived its values, and it really valued people.
She also didn't see any need for me to wait another 3 months if I didn't want to. Because she'd taken the pressure off me to do this company wide email and organise a gender therapist to come in to speak about me, I got a bit gung ho, and said Ok lets do it in 3 weeks.
So 3 weeks later at the weekly team meeting with my 15 co-workers I stood up at the end of the meeting and explained that I was going on holiday for a week and that when I came back I would look different, and that I didn't want my private life to intrude on them at work but that there was something they needed to know because we deal with each other every day and I didn't want them to feel uncomfortable. I told them I had been diagnosed as gender dysphoric, which meant I had female brain-wiring and male genetics, that the treatment for it is to change the body to match the brain because the brain isn't able to be changed, that I was being treated with hormone therapy and as part of the process of fixing my body I needed to start living my life in a female role, that this was a requirement before a sex change operation is allowed. I told them I would be coming in to work as female the week after next, that my name was staying the same but that it would be "Jamie Anne" on my email and logins, and that they should call me "she" and "her". I said I'd understand if they forgot to do that now and then and that I would remind them if they did, and not to feel uncomfortable about it.
When I finished one of the guys on my team stood up and just out of the blue said on behalf of everyone I had their full support. There were a few smiles and comments, all good, and that was it. That day one of the girls in the team sat with me for lunch and asked a few questions about whether I was excited, and one of the guys walked me to the elevator and out the building when I left, just chatting. They mostly seemed pretty unphased.
So I went on holiday and while I was away work put everything into my new name, except payroll records as I hadn't legally changed the name yet. Oh that's right - I was going to put everything off a few more months until my name change had been done, but my manager's manager had said that it wasn't necessary.
I came back after a week off in girl mode. The managers had had a meeting and had been told about me. The first person I happened to see was my manager's manager. She said I looked good and not to worry, that everyone at work was decent and no one would give me any problems. Then I had to walk through the entire call center - about 100 seats - past all these people who had no idea what was going on. Only my specific team and the managers knew. Talk about nerve-wracking.
So that first day and always after no-one ever seemed to even look at me. People I'd always said hello to still said hello same as always. I had no problems slotting into conversations in the lunch room, as if nothing was different. The first day I was having lunch with a girl I worked with and my first manager who I had at this job before I was reassigned to another team came and sat with us and out of the blue gave me a hug and told me how proud of me she was and how inspirational it was! That was nice. I had a brief pleasant chat with another manager about it. one of the guys I *used* to work with in another team cornered me int he lunch room and said "What's new?" and I said "Take a guess!" and he just said "You know I'd never treat you any different." All the people I spoke to on the phone didn't seem to realize that this "Jamie Anne" person on their caller ID was the same as the "Jamie" they'd spoken to for a year, and they all gendered me female (they were in different call centers so they had no idea what was going on). And basically - it was just all a complete non-issue.
It was unnerving for the first week because i felt like there was an elephant in the room that no one was talking about, but after that I actually forgot to think about it, and I stopped being self conscious walking around the call center.
Customers were 100% fine on the phone. My voice really suffered in the first few weeks - at that point I wasn't accustomed to talking in a female voice SO much. But I think I was only gendered male 3 times in the thousands of calls that I took before I left the job for reasons of my own. Guys were flirting with me, women were treating me like a friend - everyone is SO much nicer when you're a girl lol.
So I had a good experience. I think it was a combination of:
1 - planning and setting things up for success, particularly in selecting the right place to work in - I would not have attempted this in a small business run by a homophobe for example.
2 - a fantastic equal-opportunity culture at work.
3 - anti-discrimination laws in my state.
4 - people knowing and liking me pre-transition.
5 - not being over the top with my presentation but also giving a very clear indication of the gender I wanted to be addressed as.
6 - having a voice that passes on the phone.
7 - being ready to handle the situation.
Being passable or near-passable isn't a requirement for a good transition at work though. I have been told plenty of stories about people who stayed in their jobs while they transitioned even when they were no-where near female-looking when they began. People knowing and liking you at work prior to transition seems to be the biggest element that affects your experience. If you have good relationships at work people will stick by you in a lot of cases.
How did I deal with all of it? Just put one foot in front of the other and kept pushing through the I'm-going-to-have-a-heart-attack-and-or-throw-up feeling.
Names and IDs I'll be able to talk about when it's all done.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Jamie i love hearing awesome stories like yours So inspirational!
So inspirational!Jamie xxoo
Member
Thanks Wendi. I didn't really convey the blinding fear i felt all the way through it though lol. Transition is really all about facing fear.
NewGamePlus
Member
Yeah! Like fear of needles. Huh, huh who's with me... anyone? Ooook *goes back to cleaning up*Jamie xxoo said:
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Yea.. fear and facing it is HUGE. Every time i go out a little more femme i get almost near a panic attack at first :lol Thats mostly self-conscious stuff on my part though.. passability for me seems like a distant thing. Like you said.. the only way to get through it is to force yourself through.
edit: yea... dont like needles :lol
edit: yea... dont like needles :lol
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