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[A Link to the Past]

...? How is needing heart surgery on the same level as something akin to GRS or even depression treatment and what not? Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was under the MISGUIDED/IGNORANT assumption that the military only paid for things that are a immediate danger the life of the individual. Like a blown up torso or something. I understand the dysphoria sucks and it can cause you a lot of terrible mental aliments, but it's not on the same level as having your leg blown off, which is what I was assuming the military would only be willing to pay for.

"surgery that reduces physical pain"

You're either making up your explanation now, or you consider physical pain to be immediately life-threatening. Can you elaborate which?

 

[Fat4all]

i really don't know why you all are bothering with mango

it's obviously what they want

 

[linkboy]

Unless of course...

http://www.thewrap.com/sarah-huckabee-sanders-immediately-remove-transgender-military-ban-trump/

..he immediately discharges all Transgender military personell.

He's going to have a legal shitstorm the likes he's never seen if he does that.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Quesation: Is there a difference between Sex Reassignment Surgery and Gender Reassignment Surgery? A Link to the Past used SRS and Mango is using GRS.

Also, if you dislike the site, you can opt to not visit or post in threads you disagree with or are ignorant about!

Gender is not physical, sex is, which means that surgery cannot be performed on gender. It can help affirm someone's gender, but SRS is the appropriate terminology.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Honestly, you should have just said "I voted for Trump because *insert bigoted reason here*"

I would at least respect THAT somewhat. Because even considering voting for Trump "for the lulz" is such a childish and immature thought process.

Spoiler

Not that I think you're telling the truth. You most likely voted for Trump anyway because you're defending him so damn much. Newflash: He won't do the same for you.

When have I ever defended Trump in this thread? Please show me where.

"I have a shitty life" is not an excuse for knowingly making other lives shitty.

Bro...come on. Like the whole point of what I said, was that I knew nothing in regards to his stance, and was considering voting for him for the humor in it. All I knew about the guy was that he was on TV once.

 

[Billfisto]

I dislike Gaf for it's tendency to dogpile people, not for it's political opinions.

"Hey all you people! Quit being morally offended by the person defending hateful and/or stupid behaviour! Only one person pointing out the dumb things they're saying at a time!"

 

[uncelestial]

Gender is not physical, sex is, which means that surgery cannot be performed on gender. It can help affirm someone's gender, but SRS is the appropriate terminology.

Thanks for this. I've also seen Gender Confirmation Surgery. Do you have insight into whether that's any better?

 

[brianmcdoogle]

Gender is not physical, sex is, which means that surgery cannot be performed on gender. It can help affirm someone's gender, but SRS is the appropriate terminology.

That makes sense with what I briefly researched online. Thank you. It just seemed strange that you specifically used SRS and Mango was specifically using GRS, for whatever purpose by Mango.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Thanks for this. I've also seen Gender Confirmation Surgery. Do you have insight into whether that's any better?

*shrug lol*

I'm not really dictating what people should necessarily say, I'm sure there's a reason why someone uses SRS or GRS or GCS (never actually heard of GCS, TBH sounds good to me).

 

[Ozigizo]

and was considering voting for him for the humor in it.

Disgusting.

 

[Ponn]

That makes sense to me. But there's somehow a disconnect. My father is Mexican-American and my mother is hispanic, yet they voted for Trump. Maybe they're racists against other Mexicans. I've never seen it, but it's possible. There's an alternative explanation: somehow they are blind to what's painfully apparent to us. There's something interesting there... voting against your own rights / beliefs and simultaneously not (or refusing) to see it. I don't understand it at all. I'm not saying they should get a pass. The contributed to this, absolutely. It is, however, more complicated than hatred in their hearts.

Are they in Florida? Mexican-Americans and Cubans here don't really hide their racism towards mexicans and illegal immigrants. My Mexican-American roommate in art college was constantly calling immigrants the various deragatory terms for mexicans. Especially his own family members who were immigrants. It blew my mind. It's very much a "fuck you I got mine" attitude. There's a reason the Latino vote here is big for the GOP.

 

[peteykirch]

So what would happen if you're transgendered and then not fill out your draft card?

 

[Mango The Magician]

"surgery that reduces physical pain"

You're either making up your explanation now, or you consider physical pain to be immediately life-threatening. Can you elaborate which?

That was me trying to illustrate what I just told you...I don't know how to be anymore clear then this. I even admitted to being wrong and not knowing enough.

Would you like me to apologize as well?

"Hey all you people! Quit being morally offended by the person defending hateful and/or stupid behaviour! Only one person pointing out the dumb things they're saying at a time!"

It's sadly not an issue that exists just in threads about politics and/or this thread. This thread is also not the reason why I dislike the site...so yeah.

 

[hammysaurusrex]

Bro...come on. Like the whole point of what I said, was that I knew nothing in regards to his stance, and was considering voting for him for the humor in it. All I knew about the guy was that he was on TV once.

We get it. You weren't a racist by explicit choice, just almost a racist by being totally ignorant of current events. Here is your golden smiley face for doing a good job.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

I dislike Gaf for it's tendency to dogpile people, not for it's political opinions.

I wonder why that is

 

[Lowmelody]

When it comes to civil rights, moderates are born from ignorance. Mango the Magician: A Cautionary Tale.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

I also find it incredibly hard to believe that someone could be completely ignorant of the politics of 2015 and 2016, especially when they were so vile and disgusting that they were lampooned by non-political outlets.

 

[Primethius]

i really don't know why you all are bothering with mango

it's obviously what they want

All those posters always run the same ignorant shtick too. Like it's not the most obvious shit in the world.

 

[Tyraniboah]

A friend of mine commented on how ironic it is that a multi-draft dodger is now telling us who can and can't serve. Seems to be pretty common among GOP stalwarts, though many people that have been in government have dodged.

I don't care for any part about this ban. But, if it was a matter of money from sexual reassignment surgery, why not let transgender people serve and just not pay for the surgeries? Again, considering the dumb shit funded by the defense budget, I don't really have an issue with covering surgeries for the small percentage of servicemembers that would seek to do so. But why can't they serve anyway? What's the problem? I served and I can guarantee you I didn't give a flying fuck about what junk somebody had between my legs. If you have the desire, ability, and capacity to serve, we should be taking everybody we can. Though I'm glad I won't be fighting any wars for Trump.

 

[DeathPeak]

Voting for Trump for the "lulz" is one way to exert your privilege.

 

[NoName999]

"Hey all you people! Quit being morally offended by the person defending hateful and/or stupid behaviour! Only one person pointing out the dumb things they're saying at a time!"

Spoiler

But I mean how dare people show emotion. They should just respond with cold indifferent. That'll show the transgender community that we care! :/

 

[A Link to the Past]

That was me trying to illustrate what I just told you...I don't know how to be anymore clear then this. I even admitted to being wrong and not knowing enough.

Would you like me to apologize as well?

But heart surgery isn't reducing pain...? Heart surgery is over something immediately life threatening.

The issue isn't your understanding of military medical coverage, it's your trivialization of how bad gender dysphoria can be.

 

[Ozigizo]

I also find it incredibly hard to believe that someone could be completely ignorant of the politics of 2015 and 2016, especially when they were so vile and disgusting that they were lampooned by non-political outlets.

It's bullshit. If you were even on the internet at that time, it was impossible to avoid.

I'm not buying it.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I also find it incredibly hard to believe that someone could be completely ignorant of the politics of 2015 and 2016, especially when they were so vile and disgusting that they were lampooned by non-political outlets.

It's almost as if they wanted to change the subject of discussion by feigning an ignorant outsider's perspective while making sure nobody is too outraged at the stripping of human rights from individuals who have made multiple sacrifices to serve the country. The topic at hand is why 45 made this unilateral decision while sitting in bed with his phone in a vile reach to get a goddamn wall built, and now we got someone bleating about being the victim of 'dogpiling' making sure we discuss anything but.

 

[Mango The Magician]

But heart surgery isn't reducing pain...? Heart surgery is over something immediately life threatening.

The issue isn't your understanding of military medical coverage, it's your trivialization of how bad gender dysphoria can be.

You've twisted my words to the point that I'm not even 100% sure what we're talking about anymore.

It's almost as if they wanted to change the subject of discussion by feigning an ignorant outsider's perspective while making sure nobody is too outraged at the stripping of human rights from individuals who have made multiple sacrifices to serve the country. The topic at hand is why 45 made this unilateral decision while sitting in bed with his phone in a vile reach to get a goddamn wall built, and now we got someone bleating about being the victim of 'dogpiling' making sure we discuss anything but.

I was seriously just explain why I said "You people" as a means of referring to Gaf as a whole. I'm gonna bail on this thread, because yall are acting like I'm some evil mastermind that wants to destroy the conversation of the thread, when,

I've already said that I don't agree with the ban.

That was in fact my first post in this thread at all.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

It's almost as if they wanted to change the subject of discussion by feigning an ignorant outsider's perspective while making sure nobody is too outraged at the stripping of human rights from individuals who have made multiple sacrifices to serve the country. The topic at hand is why 45 made this unilateral decision while sitting in bed with his phone in a vile reach to get a goddamn wall built, and now we got someone bleating about being the victim of 'dogpiling' making sure we discuss anything but.

Probably.

It's bullshit. If you were even on the internet at that time, it was impossible to avoid.

I'm not buying it.

It's also impossible to prove or disprove, so instead of doing what was done in the past (Miss ya, Bish) I guess we have to put up with it.

You've twisted my words to the point that I'm not even 100% sure what we're talking about anymore.

Is SRS essential and necessary or is it elective and non consequential?

Edit: I guess he's bailing.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Yea you guys are suppose to line up and take a number if you want to post about Mango. Best schedule for next week.

 

[Reeks]

Are they in Florida? Mexican-Americans and Cubans here don't really hide their racism towards mexicans and illegal immigrants. My Mexican-American roommate in art college was constantly calling immigrants the various deragatory terms for mexicans. Especially his own family members who were immigrants. It blew my mind. It's very much a "fuck you I got mine" attitude. There's a reason the Latino vote here is big for the GOP.

I mentioned before that they are not outwardly racist. I was always taught how harmful racism can be. My dad knows racism all too well, as he's experienced it many times especially when we lived in north Texas. They are in Albuquerque, now, where we are from originally. They don't fit the bill for your descriptions at all. Anyways, it's missing the point of my post. I'm not defending their decision to vote for that fucker. All I'm saying is that there's a cognitive disconnect which is as bizarre as it is extreme. How they don't see it, I don't know.

 

[Netherscourge]

What really irks me is that he's such a fucking coward that he wont get in front of a podium to make this statement and take questions from reporters about it.

A coward.

It encapsulates what a completely horrible thing he is.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Bro...come on. Like the whole point of what I said, was that I knew nothing in regards to his stance, and was considering voting for him for the humor in it. All I knew about the guy was that he was on TV once.

Bro, come on.

You're going to tell me that you had no idea that an election would affect other people? In your first post, you said that you only voted for him because of your own position in life, which implies that you didn't give a fuck about anyone else.

 

[Imperfected]

I also find it incredibly hard to believe that someone could be completely ignorant of the politics of 2015 and 2016, especially when they were so vile and disgusting that they were lampooned by non-political outlets.

He's got a bunch of posts in a thread from the election the premise of which is, "Is anyone here voting for Donald Trump?"

The playfully ignorant/politically curious act should have lost its lustre a year ago, but let's see how long this plays out.

 

[unrealist]

He always seem to refer the government employees or military as "my", for example, "my generals", "my senators" etc.

Shouldn't it be our generals, our government etc?

 

[A Link to the Past]

You've twisted my words to the point that I'm not even 100% sure what we're talking about anymore.

I was seriously just explain why I said "You people" as a means of referring to Gaf as a whole. I'm gonna bail on this thread, because yall are acting like I'm some evil mastermind that wants to destroy the conversation of the thread, when,

I've already said that I don't agree with the ban.

That was in fact my first post in this thread at all.

I never twisted your words. I asked you how "heart surgery" was a clarification of "reduced pain." You've yet to answer.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Your use of the word "nice" reminds me of a perhaps the biggest thing I've learned over the past year:
There are a ton of people in this county who are "nice." They're pleasant to be around. Polite. Cordial.

But being "nice" is not the same as being decent. And there are a ton of people in this country who, while being outwardly "nice," are fundamentally vile and indecent to their core.

Well said

 

[commedieu]

Ops mr.magoo

 

[linkboy]

He always seem to refer the government employees or military as "my", for example, "my generals", "my senators" etc.

Shouldn't it be our generals, our government etc?

He's running the government like a business that he owns. Remember, that was one of the biggest reasons why people voted for him.

It's a fucking crock of shit.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

He's got a bunch of posts in a thread from the election the premise of which is, "Is anyone here voting for Donald Trump?"

The playfully ignorant/politically curious act should have lost its lustre a year ago, but let's see how long this plays out.

Oops.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Is SRS essential and necessary or is it elective and non consequential?

I am asking from a place of pure ignorance here, but isn't it elective given that some transgender individuals do not opt for SRS and instead just do hormone therapy?

Keeping in mind I'm asking in general, not as it pertains to military health care and the like.

 

[Gin-Shiio]

I usually delete my reply if I see that someone else already has argued the same point before I could make my post. I think adding to theirs would be a bit excessive. I don't want to hurt feelings.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

It's sadly not an issue that exists just in threads about politics and/or this thread. This thread is also not the reason why I dislike the site...so yeah.

If you weren't talking about this thread, why did you mention it in this thread?

 

[Apdiddy]

He always seem to refer the government employees or military as "my", for example, "my generals", "my senators" etc.

Shouldn't it be our generals, our government etc?

I'm convinced that Trump is lying (again) and did not consult with actual generals before sending the Tweets. I wish reporters at a WH press briefing would push for the names of these generals and military experts.

Trump got the same source for this as he did about Obama wiretapping him and the illegal votes: he made it up.

 

[Reeks]

I am asking from a place of pure ignorance here, but isn't it elective given that some transgender individuals do not opt for SRS and instead just do hormone therapy?

Keeping in mind I'm asking in general, not as it pertains to military health care and the like.

For those seeking SRS, it is a medical need.

 

[Mango The Magician]

I am asking from a place of pure ignorance here, but isn't it elective given that some transgender individuals do not opt for SRS and instead just do hormone therapy?

Keeping in mind I'm asking in general, not as it pertains to military health care and the like.

Given what I've read, some transgender people don't even seek hormone replacement therapy. They just make themselves look as much like the desired gender as possible. Thus, it's necessary/not necessary presumably on a case to case basis. Speaking out of military healthcare by the way. As from what I've seen people say, you need a therapist approval or somekind of doctors not for your healthcare to pay for it, or something. All I know is that you gotta be sure you want it as there's not a lot of going back, if I understand the medical procedure that well.

Granted you could argue that Trump was referring to specifically people who have or desire to transition as he used the word "Transsexual" which it is my understanding that said word specifically refers to those that have the surgery and/or HRT. However, I highly doubt that the man is intelligent enough to even google the difference. Hell, he'd probably ban a solider from being in the military if he found out that said solider once crossdressed as a joke.

EDITED FOR CLARITY

 

[A Link to the Past]

I am asking from a place of pure ignorance here, but isn't it elective given that some transgender individuals do not opt for SRS and instead just do hormone therapy?

Keeping in mind I'm asking in general, not as it pertains to military health care and the like.

Firstly, it's not a matter of opting in or out of something. Most trans people cannot afford SRS. If you polled trans people based on income level, you would see SRS a lot more often among people making a living wage.

Secondly, the existence of people who do not seek care in some way or another does not mean that it is elective. For example, someone can have chronic back pain, but the fact that they do not or cannot seek care doesn't mean treatment is elective.

Given what I've read, some transgender people don't even seek hormone replacement therapy. They just make themselves look as much like the desired gender as possible. Thus, it's elective/necessary presumably on a case to case basis.

Granted you could argue that Trump was referring to specifically people who have or desire to transition as he used the word "Transsexual" which it is my understanding that said word specifically refers to those that have the surgery and/or HRT. However, I highly doubt that the man is intelligent enough to even google the difference. Hell, he'd probably ban a solider from being in the military if he found out that said solider once crossdressed as a joke.

Just to clarify, this argument is made in contrast with the opinions of medical professionals. It should be taken with similar weight to "vaccines cause autism."

 

[A Link to the Past]

To specifically address the point of "What about trans people who do not elect to receive hormones or surgery," well, yes, not all trans people need it. Not all trans people experience dysphoria. I guess it'd be like saying that heart surgery is elective because not all people elect to get heart surgery in their lives. Not all trans people have similar needs, but that is not relevant to the fact that most trans people do need SRS and HRT.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Firstly, it's not a matter of opting in or out of something. Most trans people cannot afford SRS. If you polled trans people based on income level, you would see SRS a lot more often among people making a living wage.

Secondly, the existence of people who do not seek care in some way or another does not mean that it is elective. For example, someone can have chronic back pain, but the fact that they do not or cannot seek care doesn't mean treatment is elective.



Just to clarify, this argument is made in contrast with the opinions of medical professionals. It should be taken with similar weight to "vaccines cause autism."

I'm asking from a place of general niceness and not meaning to offend anyone, but how is what I said wrong? Is it wrong, that everyone experiences Transgenderness in a different way? I'm literally repeating what I read on a Trans Youth help site.

EDIT: In regards to the below post, fair enough. Though for clarity, I was more referring to out of military surgery, like if you're just a random joe thinking of wanting, SRS, then it, from what I've heard is something that is only really offered up via healthcare if you absolutely need it and are sure you want it, as there's apparently no going back. I should have made this more clear.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I'm asking from a place of general niceness and not meaning to offend anyone, but how is what I said wrong? Is it wrong, that everyone experiences Transgenderness in a different way? I'm literally repeating what I read on a Trans Youth help site.

Refer to my above post. We do not categorize medical treatment on a case-by-case basis on whether it is elective, so it is pointless. It's othering treatment of trans people by treating it in a different way than we treat all other types of treatment. You either get SRS or you don't get SRS. If you don't get it, it's still non-elective, because you not getting it doesn't matter to the status of it. If you do get it, it's non-elective. Non-elective treatments for trans people aren't defined by whether all trans people will use them.

 

[linkboy]

To specifically address the point of "What about trans people who do not elect to receive hormones or surgery," well, yes, not all trans people need it. Not all trans people experience dysphoria. I guess it'd be like saying that heart surgery is elective because not all people elect to get heart surgery in their lives. Not all trans people have similar needs, but that is not relevant to the fact that most trans people do need SRS and HRT.

I think a better example would be breast reduction surgery. It's something that Tricare covers, but not all women want it or need it.

It's there for women who do need it (for medical reasons).

 

[A Link to the Past]

I think a better example would be breast reduction surgery. It's something that Tricare covers, but not all women want it or need it.

It's there for women who do need it (for medical reasons).

Fair point lol.

 

[Grug]

I can't put into words how disheartening it is to see some African-Americans defending Trump's decision citing the same "the military isn't the place for social experiments" argument that was once used to keep African-Americans out of the military.