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Trump's Labor Department appointment sends early warning sign to labor
- Thread starter Beefy
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radios shipping overview
Member
No refunds, guys. You voted for him, you're stuck with him.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I just think of the people voting for Brexit and Trump as really fucking stupid at this point. I don't care anymore if it's not politically correct, 'unkind', or that calling them names will 'hurt their feelings and make them vote the wrong way'. I don't give a fuck about your 'feelings' if what you vote for will affect the rights of millions of people. I'm so jaded I don't really give a shit anymore.
Im not sure what you are asking us to move on from. It is a fact that the pain these picks will cause will likely cause people to change their perspective on politics as well as their votes in the future. As pain always has been a political motivator throughout history and usually precedes dramatic political change.
Do you want us to specify the type of pain that will result so that we are more future oriented? Ok. The end of unions, no protections against predatory companies, more erosion of guaranteed wages and benefits.
Consequently, more people will suffer as a result - particularly the very people that made this possible - and optimistically this will force proper change.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I mean the American electorate votes against its own interests time and time again. This election showed that discussing policy doesn't get through to American voters. Repeating a dumb mantra over and over does.
"Look at what you wrought" is as good a mantra I can think of for the coming years
Naw. Those some voters usually don't respect the notion of "PC" anyway so you should be allowed to go ahead and call them fucking stupid/selfish/short-sighted assholes.
Adjusting for inflation the minimum wage in the 1960s is actually higher than the minimum wage today(adjusted for inflation it was about $11 an hour), so it really does need to be higher. Much higher.
Steve Youngblood
Member
My problem is just that it almost reaches a point where a news thread about Trump isn't worth leaving open because there's little discussion about the topic at hand and it's mostly just handwringing opining that could be offered in pretty much any thread about Trump. This post? Yes. This is on topic and lets me know what you think the implications of this pick are. That post I quoted was just cathartic masturbation on your part where you get to feel good about yourself for really letting Trump voters have it again.
That mantra works better when you have something demonstrable to show them in regards to how things have actually gone wrong. Do you think anybody who voted Trump is looking at this headline and thinking "Oh God what have I done? Not Andy Puzder! Why didn't Democrats/Liberals warn me about this!"
Alcotholic
Banned
I understand that Gaf is an echo chamber at times and especially feels that way with every decision that Trump makes. I agree with everyone of you that this is a poor decision. It doesn't surprise me though. I am curious as to what republicans think.
hydrophilic attack
Member
This is the "telling them so" time
The next few years will be the evidence that allows us to say "told you so"
dr3upmushroom
Banned
You realize that the entire working class isn't just White people? It's going to hurt across the board, if anything worse conditions make people even more fervent hate and irrationality.
Well, I hope all the folks who voted for Trump or didn't vote at all learn something over the next 4 years.
When you're right you're right.
When you're right you're right.
Clockwork5
Member
Do you think the Environmental Protection Agency is about maximizing profits for oil and coal companies?
By the way, it was created by Nixon.
Tiny Hands, Ivanka
SporeCrawler
Member
Many people that voted for trump will experience trumped up trickle down
http://www.theonion.com/article/precious-little-voter-needs-feel-inspired-candidat-52566
I'd like to print out one for every young person who didn't vote for Clinton.
Captin Quacker
Member
And the fault will lie solely on those who voted for him
No the hell it isn't.
Trump hasn't even been inaugurated yet, and he's already displaying what kind of president he'll be and what kind of term he'll oversee. He's gonna try to undo every right, every regulation, every safeguard, every amendment that he and his cesspool of rich cockhounds either don't like or doesn't help them line their pockets.
There are two groups of people responsible for letting this man get elected: racist White people, and idiots. This isn't hyperbole, this isn't projection. This is hardcore, statistically-verifiable, accredited fact. And the worst part is, Clinton is about to win the popular vote by 3 million. These braindead clowns are the minority and we can't ridicule them for their criminally stupid decisions and lack of any real ability to think critically? We supposed to just let people blame minorities and the Left for letting him be elected instead of them blaming the people actually responsible?
Steve, we haven't reached the "move on" point yet. The election was only a month ago. And considering the shit he's about to pull, we gonna have to wait a whole generation before we can move pass explicitly mocking the people who voted for him. And even then, they'll be on the wrong side of history yet again, to be remembered along the lines of the Confederate States, Nazi Germany, or the election of Herbert Hoover. As such, they'll still be passively mocked.
TL;DR: You want us to move on? Talk to me in four years and see if my Black ass will even have the freedom to speak up on it anymore.
Pudzer would be saying the same thing if it was $10 an hour.
Don't be obtuse and disingenuous. $15 is negotiating tactic. No politician realistically thinks that will happen in one fell swoop.
If they are suffering, the democrats did it. The idea that these people will learn a lesson is fucking hilarious.
Then don't kid yourself, because that is untrue. The only way that happens is if there is collusion, no competition in a market, or a company is operating perfectly efficient. Wage floors and their effect on the economy are more complex then that and its a false narrative that they are always harmful or cancelled in a way that distribution of income is not changed.
This is bootstraps tinged nonsense.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I honestly don't even know how I'm supposed to respond to this post. I think Trump's election was a total disaster and was extremely disheartened when it became clear that he was actually the president elect. Part of me still finds myself in disbelief that it actually happened. That it's probably just a bad dream and that we didn't really elect the guy from The Apprentice who was once on the receiving end of a Stone Cold Stunner and whose main platform was to build a wall.
But it did happen and this sort of handwringing IS NOT going to change things. A Trump voter who is probably still out there enjoying the moment that his/her guy won and that the country is going in a new direction is not going to read that amir0x drivel and go "Oh man, what have I done!? He's right!"
That post is entirely self-serving. I can picture a smug smile on his face as he pictures the bank foreclosing on that person's trailer while simultaneously getting a phone call that his/her unemployed children were just picked up for trying to rob a bank to fund another purchase of meth.
I get that we are angry. I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset or distraught. But that shit isn't constructive in the least. What would be better and more informative would just be to try to stay on topic and establish why Andy Puzder is a bad choice for this position. That's what I'm interested in reading. Like I'm going to be honest. I don't know much about this guy. Since Trump picked him, my kneejerk reaction is to assume he's probably a lousy choice. My read of the OP reinforces that given his current job and stance on organized labor. But beyond that, I don't know much. On a scale from "not a good pick but could do worse" to "catastrophic," just how bad a pick is this guy? What other names might Trump have considered? Would they have been better or worse that Puzder?
Granted, not every post needs to be super serious. If we still need to blow off steam and get a Trump jab in there, there has to be a better way than the posts I quoted earlier, or this:
StrikeNinja24
Banned
I sure as hell didn't vote for him, and barely anyone in my state in NJ did.
StrikeNinja24
Banned
Only way that happens is if this starts hurting their wallets or freedoms.
Well, honestly, better to pay a couple people a living wage then a bunch of people shit, so I am all for automation with a few people if they require higher wages. Too bad what will actually happen is automation and low/lower wages. Automation is happening no matter what so better to put laws in place to force better treatment of the remaining workers. The strategy now by republicans is to delay any wage increases under this argument so that when they fire everyone but a few and have robots, those few are not going to have much power to request better pay.
Frankfurter
Member
First, where is the proof?
Second, even if that'd be true, part of the reason for a higher minimum wage is that those in the lowest income bracket get more money. Say the minimum wage were to be increased from 7.25 (?) to $9. Do you really think that'd lead to an inflation of 20+%? It would only effect a certain part of all employees, say 10% as an example, meaning 90% of the wages wouldn't change at all due to the minimum wage hike. Now on top of that, labor costs are only part of the costs that a company has, meaning even if say McDonalds would have to raise every employees wage by 20+% (which is unrealistic), they'd not need to raise their prices by 20% to remain just as profitable. And even the, say, 3% increase they'd need might not be possible due to competition.
+ those higher wages will actually flow back into the economy.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
This is what the 'bust' part of the deal looks like, they got what they wanted.
Edit: you know, I take that back, this isn't the time or place. :v
Baron von Loathsome
Member
A de facto minority of voters picked him.
Aaronology
Member
The majority of eligible voters chose him either directly or passively via staying home. It's a distinction that doesn't really matter much to me at this point.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Pretty much.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Raising minimum wage would be a great way to get the economy stimulated, but I highly doubt it's going to happen under this guy lol.
Automation is coming regardless, regardless of wages.
Automation is coming regardless, regardless of wages.
old
Member
Man...Europe and Australia must be filled with machines. I bet all of their fast food shops are run by robots.
Honestly, Steve, I don't know what I'd move on *to*. It feels like we're stuck in a bad dream and really what I want to do is go back, back to days/weeks before the election when there might have been a chance to claw back that sliver of votes that won him the election. It feels wrong to simply try to resume political discourse as normal - there's nothing normal going on here, not with a President Elect tweeting daily lies, threats and tantrums.
I honestly don't think we're going to move on without acknowledging that we need to start holding the American voter to a higher standard and the only way that's going to happen is by dwelling on and addressing the issue over an extended period of time.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't know what the answer is, but I can tell you what it's not: being smug assholes who think we're morally superior to 62,793,872 and counting Americans for no other reason than we voted correctly in the election. These are dark times. It fucking sucks that Trump won. But this type of rhetoric is pointless and self-serving. Assuming Trump's tenure is as bad as we fear, hopefully people see the light. But I don't think being self-righteous, uncompromising pricks in the meantime is the way to win the public debate going into the 2018 mid-terms or Trump's 2020 re-election bid.
Lev
Member
The only way you can really make $12 per hour work if you are: single with no kids, most likely have no car, don't have debt (e.g. CC or student loans), live with your parents or roommates, which I doubt is the average situation for many working adults. Otherwise you can't save much, will be living paycheck to paycheck, and any random expense that comes up will financially break you.
$12 per hour sucks with today's cost of living and so I think that we can definitely stand to increase wages, at least to match inflation. It's just that the corporate class is too greedy and is willing to depress wages in order to make short term profit gains.
And anyway, I don't think that the $15 per hour demand from workers was going to stop fast-food automation from progressing. It takes years to develop and implement technology, so I am more inclined to think that the $15 per hour knee jerk reaction from fast-food giants is just a political talking point for them to justify using automation.
I'm not sure anyone's really smug here, Steve, not when that 62 million and counting just kicked the country's teeth in. And I object to the notion that we "only think we're morally superior ... for no other reason than we voted correctly in the election". You can't tell me there isn't a basic lack of empathy and human decency in a choice to vote for Trump,that the counterpoint to Trump was morally equivalent. This ins't a matter of some people just happening to vote "correctly" like it was mostly up to chance, a flip of a coin, as to what the better choice was. I don't seek to hold myself morally superior, but I really don't know how else to view myself against someone who thinks Trump is the right direction for this country.
So, he really wants to become the head of the Department of Robots.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Muppet of a Man
Member
Long lost orange brothers:
Equally implausible hair too
So, multiple things.
1. Increased minimum wage does not mean increase in prices or inflation. Adjusting for inflation, minimum wage would be around $20 but it stopped increasing around the 60s. Increasing the minimum wage would catch up with inflation.
1b. If you then say "then why don't we crease the minimum wage to $7000!", that would be deliberately surpasing inflation, causing inflation, which is not what is being recommended.
2. Increasing minimum wage means more people (particularly poor people) have more money to spend on more things, stimulating economic growth.
3. It is not just in wealthier/more expensive areas where minimum wage should be increased. Like I said before, minimum wage should be around $20, and minimum wage is tied into workers rights which have basically been eroded in rural areas.
4. So, Eldery people aren't retiring because they don't have enough money to do so comfortably, because of things like minimum wage jobs that they are forced to take past retirement age that still doesn't give them enough to retire but are the only jobs available to them. Seems to me that increasing minimum wage would help with that.
5. Education costs aren't really related to it, but you can educate a community all you want, but if the only jobs available are local, minimum-wage jobs (like it is for many rural areas), get that degree, but know that there's a huge problem of underemployed people.
6. Who want's to work at McDonalds for their whole lives?
7. So what if someone is happy working at McDonalds for their whole lives?
8. Do you think people just stop trying to better their lives as soon as they have a bed and a place to wank?
9. Seriously, that particular argument grinds my goat more than any other. It's an argument that pretends that "loser dude working at a fast food chain" isn't a negative stereotype, or pretends that working at McDonalds isn't considered pathetic by society, or that it's so horrible to work there and anyone who does is a loser who failed at life, as if people's motivation to better their lives just shuts off when they get a job.
It's "You don't want to spend the rest of your life flipping burgers or you're a failure!" followed by "Stop complaining, you have a job!"
The troops though
Apparently what we should have been thinking is "I will move to the rust belt where my vote will matter."
The vast majority of Bernie voters were Democrats who believed in his policy positions. But a Significant number were edgelords who were one fedora and a single personal success from being libertarians anyway. Those were the Trump shifts.
starchild excalibur
Member
preach
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