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UFC 196 Conor McGregor vs Nate Diaz |OT| Fook The Belt feat. Ninja Shit & Touch Butt

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O

Oxn

Member
Cant we just agree that he is smaller, just not a whole lot smaller?

Problem is Connor has been use to fighting guys smaller than himself.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
zewone said:
Holly's fight was extremely boring to watch, just like her other UFC fights before Ronda.

People hyped her up so much. Called this after the UFC 193 win.
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Said the same thing to my friend after she beat Rhonda. He was all on that boxing vs. mma stuff.
 
N

NeoROCK

Member
Holly Holm is a counter striker. Perfect fit against Ronda who rushed in chin-first over and over.

Meisha owned her on the ground twice. Almost ended it in the 2nd round too.
 
H

Host Samurai

Member
Its crazy that Dana seems salty that Miesha won the title. If I were Dana i'd be estatic that she's the champ of my org. She's more marketable than Rhonda, hotter than Rhonda & much better role model & FIGHTS till the end. She's got it all. I haven't been so happy for a win since Shogun beat Lyoto for the title.
 
C

CopperPuppy

Member
Stinkles said:
Shouldn't be a surprise but I think in these relatively small early days of MMA audiences still make the mistake of comparison to boxing which by its nature is more predictable and less prone to upsets. Holm, McGregor etc are predictable outcomes of a more complex sport. Tyson etc dominated in a sport with fewer possible moves and styles, the difference between Chess and Go, but still a sport in its infancy.
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I don't think I've ever read something that more fundamentally misunderstands the sport of boxing. This is almost like saying Final Fantasy Tactics or something like it is "more complex" than chess because chess has "fewer possible moves and styles." A contained move set and extensive rulebook =/= "less complex." This really is the epitome of casual MMA talk I overhear, perfectly encapsulated in a single post.

Spy said:
Few things I want to mention in this thread then I'm likely done here.

-Conor didn't do something crazy by supposedly going up two weight classes. He was fighting at 155 because that's his natural weight class and there were many rumors (including from Dana White) that he would no longer be able to make 145 because it was too difficult of a cut. Nate Diaz is also a natural lightweight. Because the fight was on short notice, they agreed to fight at 170 as it would be unfair to make someone cut the proper amount of weight in such a short period of time. Conor McGregor was the 145 AND 155 pound Cage Warriors champion before he joined the UFC.

-Conor is NOT humble in victory and and defeat. Have you people heard the things he says about his opponents shortly after he fought them? Watch the Go Big press conference and see how he acted towards Chad Mendes, if you think that's being humble in victory, I don't know what to say. Who's not "humble" in defeat? There's nothing you can say? You lost.

Summary:

Two lightweight fighters decided not to cut weight and fought. Conor is not a humble person. If you actually follow MMA, you would know this.
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I have respect for what Conor did to make sure this fight happened, but thank you for speaking sense.
 
Z

zewone

Member
Spy said:
Few things I want to mention in this thread then I'm likely done here.

-Conor didn't do something crazy by supposedly going up two weight classes. He was fighting at 155 because that's his natural weight class and there were many rumors (including from Dana White) that he would no longer be able to make 145 because it was too difficult of a cut. Nate Diaz is also a natural lightweight. Because the fight was on short notice, they agreed to fight at 170 as it would be unfair to make someone cut the proper amount of weight in such a short period of time. Conor McGregor was the 145 AND 155 pound Cage Warriors champion before he joined the UFC.

-Conor is NOT humble in victory and and defeat. Have you people heard the things he says about his opponents shortly after he fought them? Watch the Go Big press conference and see how he acted towards Chad Mendes, if you think that's being humble in victory, I don't know what to say. Who's not "humble" in defeat? There's nothing you can say? You lost.

Summary:

Two lightweight fighters decided not to cut weight and fought. Conor is not a humble person. If you actually follow MMA, you would know this.
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He was extremely humble to Mendes after the fight.

If I remember correctly, Mendes was the first to throw a verbal jab at the Go Big press conference.
 
F

flkraven

Member
The main point here is Conor acted like he was invincible. Dude thought he could take on the world and fight at any weight class. Turns out he can't last 2 rounds against a Nate Diaz with 11 days notice, just off of food poisoning, with no training camp.

Great MMA fighters lose, and will lose a hell of a lot more than a great boxer. The best, most entertaining fighters don't say no to a fight. That's why Diaz is 20-10 and rolled Conor. Props to Conor for accepting the fight in the first place, but all of his smack talking these past few months speak like someone who had bought into their own hype.

I will say though that McGregor looked super nervous in all his conferences/appearances with Diaz. He saw that Diaz wasn't engaging in his shit and quite literally didn't give a fuck. 'You're on Steroids'
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
Zemm said:
The whole 'he shouldn't have tapped' is the stupidest thing I've read on this forum for ages. Let's move on.
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I don't have a problem with the tap but, watching the fight, Conor checked out after he got rocked. That takedown attempt was pure desperation to avoid the TKO/KO, which would have damaged his ego and/or brand.

This isn't the first time we've seen a fighter basically give up after getting hurt. Some guys just don't have the heart to fight through damage.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
ApharmdX said:
I don't have a problem with the tap but, watching the fight, Conor checked out after he got rocked. That takedown attempt was pure desperation to avoid the TKO/KO, which would have damaged his ego and/or brand.

This isn't the first time we've seen a fighter basically give up after getting hurt. Some guys just don't have the heart to fight through damage.
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going for a takedown or clinch after you've been rocked isn't giving up, it's smart fighting. If you honestly think Conor was thinking about his "brand" after being chin checked I don't know what to tell you.
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
going for a takedown or clinch after you've been rocked isn't giving up, it's smart fighting. If you honestly think Conor was thinking about his "brand" after being chin checked I don't know what to tell you.
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I've been watching MMA for a long time, 12-13 years, and this isn't new, we've seen it before. The sloppy-ass takedown came from pure desperation brought on by the damage rather than strategy. The only valid argument is that Conor thought in his rattled state that he'd get a reprieve on top, but with a guard like Nate's, not likely. IMO he should have tried to clinch up, push Nate against the cage, and recover. That would have been smarter.

Conor checked out after that left from Nate. That's fine. It's not a path to garner you a lot of fans but there's a lot of fighters that have done this. It's better for longevity than being beaten to a pulp ala Lawler/Macdonald or JDS/Cain. Conor will be back. I just hope that this loss doesn't shake his confidence too badly.
 
C

Chuckl3s

Member
So I was finally able to sit down and enjoy the fight last night. When they were doing the introductions, Joe Rogan was saying something about how these fighters go on an extreme of no water diet up to 24 hours before the fight. What is the purpose of that? Wouldn't you be weak during the fight because of it?
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
ApharmdX said:
I've been watching MMA for a long time, 12-13 years, and this isn't new, we've seen it before. The sloppy-ass takedown came from pure desperation brought on by the damage rather than strategy. The only valid argument is that Conor thought in his rattled state that he'd get a reprieve on top, but with a guard like Nate's, not likely. IMO he should have tried to clinch up, push Nate against the cage, and recover. That would have been smarter.

Conor checked out after that left from Nate. That's fine. It's not a path to garner you a lot of fans but there's a lot of fighters that have done this. It's better for longevity than being beaten to a pulp ala Lawler/Macdonald or JDS/Cain. Conor will be back. I just hope that this loss doesn't shake his confidence too badly.
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He was rocked and knew he needed to stall somehow. So he shot for the takedown in hope that maybe he could get it or survive til the end of the round.

It's a desperation tactic that happens all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
Chuckl3s said:
So I was finally able to sit down and enjoy the fight last night. When they were doing the introductions, Joe Rogan was saying something about how these fighters go on an extreme of no water diet up to 24 hours before the fight. What is the purpose of that? Wouldn't you be weak during the fight because of it?
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It's the weight cut, they dehydrate themselves to the extreme in order to carry as much muscle as possible. It's dangerous and has lead to death; also increases the risk of head trauma in combat sports due to a reduction in the amount of fluid surrounding the brain.
 
R

Reg

Banned
Fight was over once Conor desperately went in for a weak ass takedown. The disparity in bjj between the two is gigantic. Conor was basically submitting to a quick mauling once he shot in.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
ApharmdX said:
I've been watching MMA for a long time, 12-13 years, and this isn't new, we've seen it before. The sloppy-ass takedown came from pure desperation brought on by the damage rather than strategy. The only valid argument is that Conor thought in his rattled state that he'd get a reprieve on top, but with a guard like Nate's, not likely. IMO he should have tried to clinch up, push Nate against the cage, and recover. That would have been smarter.

Conor checked out after that left from Nate. That's fine. It's not a path to garner you a lot of fans but there's a lot of fighters that have done this. It's better for longevity than being beaten to a pulp ala Lawler/Macdonald or JDS/Cain. Conor will be back. I just hope that this loss doesn't shake his confidence too badly.
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of course it's desperation, but it's also a strategy. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Meisha's strategy in the fifth round of a fight she was losing was also out of desperation. She knew she had to lunge in for a take down and risk getting counter punched by a counter puncher because it was her only shot at losing the fight. I'm not denying Conor going for a take down on a superior grappler wasn't desperation.
 
S

Super Nothing

Member
Chuckl3s said:
So I was finally able to sit down and enjoy the fight last night. When they were doing the introductions, Joe Rogan was saying something about how these fighters go on an extreme of no water diet up to 24 hours before the fight. What is the purpose of that? Wouldn't you be weak during the fight because of it?
Click to expand...

Sounds like he's talking about weight cutting. You dehydrate yourself so that you weigh less. This way, you can have more muscle mass than what the weight limit would normally allow. You work out in clothing that doesn't properly vent your heat so that you sweat more. Some fighters even work out in a sauna in full sweats. During all of this, you can't drink any water because that would just put the weight that you spent all that effort into cutting back on. Once they weigh in the day before the fight, they start rehydrating. This used to involve IVs so that they could put the water more directly into their system, but that got banned recently.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
CopperPuppy said:
I don't think I've ever read something that more fundamentally misunderstands the sport of boxing. This is almost like saying Final Fantasy Tactics or something like it is "more complex" than chess because chess has "fewer possible moves and styles." A contained move set and extensive rulebook =/= "less complex." This really is the epitome of casual MMA talk I overhear, perfectly encapsulated in a single post.
.
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I've boxed and watched boxing for more than forty years. I understand it perfectly well. Your problem is that you're conflating complexity with worth or value. I'm literally just describing the potential number of outcomes. A bag of marbles is more complex than three marbles.
 
S

see5harp

Member
I could see if you were in a position to actually reverse a hold you might be a bitch to tap but that rear naked was as deep as you can get.
 
A

AnotherDayAnotherDollar

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
of course it's desperation, but it's also a strategy. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Meisha's strategy in the fifth round of a fight she was losing was also out of desperation. She knew she had to lunge in for a take down and risk getting counter punched by a counter puncher because it was her only shot at losing the fight. I'm not denying Conor going for a take down on a superior grappler wasn't desperation.
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One is not like the other. Tate has a major advantage over Holm on the ground and, yes, on the 5th round she had to course correct her strategy and go for broke to try to take the fight to the ground. McGregor - who is a poor ground fighter - going for a takedown after getting chin checked and stockton slapped against a legit Cesar Gracie black belt is just desperation, no strategy involved.

VoxPop said:
Just like that pussy Fedor. War Nate.
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Not that I agree with what that dude said, but Emelianenko actually tried to fight off the triangle Werdum put on him. Werdum had to adjust and readjust until Emelianenko eventually tapped.
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
AnotherDayAnotherDollar said:
Werdum had to adjust and readjust until Emelianenko eventually tapped.
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That says more about Werdum not getting a good choke in than anything.

Conor was literally less than 2 seconds from being out. Look at how quickly Holm went from active to sleeping. Conor weakly pawing at Nate for an additional 1.4 seconds doesn't move the needle of my opinion on him.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
He was flattened out, had no energy left and the choke was in deep..... And ppl are mad that he tapped? You know they aren't fighting to the death, right?
 
C

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Host Samurai said:
Its crazy that Dana seems salty that Miesha won the title. If I were Dana i'd be estatic that she's the champ of my org. She's more marketable than Rhonda, hotter than Rhonda & much better role model & FIGHTS till the end. She's got it all. I haven't been so happy for a win since Shogun beat Lyoto for the title.
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Dana only cares about marketability and there's no way you can prove Miesha is more marketable than Ronda or that Tate/Rousey III is a more marketable fight than Holm/Rousey II. Way more evidence to the contrary on both of those actually.

Personally, I like Tate a lot but all this means to me is Ronda is getting the belt back and I have to sit through the Rousey hype cycle all over again.
 
Head of Vengarl

Head of Vengarl

Banned
F

Formless

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
going for a takedown or clinch after you've been rocked isn't giving up, it's smart fighting. If you honestly think Conor was thinking about his "brand" after being chin checked I don't know what to tell you.
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He didn't really wait for the right time to clinch or shoot. It was definitely desperation though I agree about your last point.

I find Conor's excuses about energy and efficiency lame. He got outstruck once Nate got his timing and didn't adjust.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
ApharmdX said:
I don't have a problem with the tap but, watching the fight, Conor checked out after he got rocked. That takedown attempt was pure desperation to avoid the TKO/KO, which would have damaged his ego and/or brand.

This isn't the first time we've seen a fighter basically give up after getting hurt. Some guys just don't have the heart to fight through damage.
Click to expand...

It's extremely common for fighters to go for a takedown if they're getting lit up on the feet, and that includes strikers. Much of the time, it's instinctual. It doesn't say anything about how much heart they have or don't have, but what their body is telling them to do at that specific point in time.

This idea that Conor is somehow cowardly for shooting for a takedown (and even sillier, for tapping to a locked choke) boggles the mind. I can only imagine that this mentality is coming from newer MMA fans. There's nothing interesting or badass about going unconscious or breaking an arm because you're tougher than you are intelligent. Big Nog's arm to this day is still fucked up because he didn't tap to Mir's armbar and got his shit broke. Ain't nothing cool about that.
 
O

OpinionatedCyborg

Member
CopperPuppy said:
I don't think I've ever read something that more fundamentally misunderstands the sport of boxing. This is almost like saying Final Fantasy Tactics or something like it is "more complex" than chess because chess has "fewer possible moves and styles." A contained move set and extensive rulebook =/= "less complex." This really is the epitome of casual MMA talk I overhear, perfectly encapsulated in a single post..
Click to expand...
There's a difference between complexity and depth, at least in layspeak. Chess is deep but not very complex -- you can learn all rules very quickly. Paradox games, like Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis, are incredibly complex but not particularly deep. You could make the argument that MMA is more complex than boxing but not as deep.

edit: this is a weird discussion anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_BkMAoXAeo
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
AnotherDayAnotherDollar said:
One is not like the other. Tate has a major advantage over Holm on the ground and, yes, on the 5th round she had to course correct her strategy and go for broke to try to take the fight to the ground. McGregor - who is a poor ground fighter - going for a takedown after getting chin checked and stockton slapped against a legit Cesar Gracie black belt is just desperation, no strategy involved.



Not that I agree with what that dude said, but Emelianenko actually tried to fight off the triangle Werdum put on him. Werdum had to adjust and readjust until Emelianenko eventually tapped.
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You are missing the point by making a direct comparison between the two situations, which I was not trying to do. My point is that sometimes strategy or tactics are born out of desperation. I guarantee you Miesha fought that last round differently knowing she was likely down 3-1 on the cards, than she would have if she were clearly winning the fight. Going for a clinch or a grapple after being rocked is a strategy fighters are taught. Boxers do it all the damn time. It's the smartest thing to do in that given situation, even if it doesn't always work out. Being desperate and being a strategy, or the right move at the time, are not mutually exclusive. And it makes a lot more sense than to believe that Conor McGregor, in the heat of a fight where he was just rocked, was somehow thinking about his "brand", which is about the stupidest thing anyone could honestly believe.
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
Formless said:
He didn't really wait for the right time to clinch or shoot. It was definitely desperation though I agree about your last point.

I find Conor's excuses about energy and efficiency lame. He got outstruck once Nate got his timing and didn't adjust.
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I think watching Nate take his best shots and keep coming did discourage him though. Might've sapped his energy some. There came a point in the fight where you could see Conor thinking fuck, this guy's still here? Still boxing efficiently, still landing.

I think Conor was counting on Nate not being in shape, which is why he accepted 170. Not the best thing to bank on with the Diaz brothers doing triathlons and shit.
 
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