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[zsynqx]

I love TLOU, it's one of my favourite games of all time, and Bioshock Infinite has a special place in my mind even though I don't think it's a fantastic game. But both Daisy Fitzroy and Marlene have the same trait of being willing to do absolutely anything to achieve their goals, and both of them exhibit moments of strong anger. The trait on it's own is not an issue and if there were other notable examples of people of colour in either game it wouldn't be an issue (I am aware of Henry and Sam in TLOU but

Spoiler

both of them die, as does Marlene)

. However, when the only black women in either game spend a lot of their time getting in the protagonist's way, it lends itself to a certain negative stereotype. Daisy is certainly the more poorly portrayed of the two, and as I said, Marlene has a very strong rationale and there is nuance to her character in the recordings you can find in the lab, but taken at face value it doesn't come across very well.

Again, I'm not saying either game was created with racist intent or anything like that. I think it is just an oversight but it's sad to see another possible oversight being committed.

What was your opinion of Riley in TLOU left behind?

I thought what an awesome strong female character.

Too strong apparently :L

 

[prwxv3]

I think we are getting played

 

[User 73706]

What's wrong about the post? I didn't use a racist term. If I outright said the n-word I'd understand the backlash but I didn't.

"If I wouldn't be chastised for it I would have just said they wanted her to 'sound Australian and not like an n-word' outright."

 

[Bold One]

Uh, what?



Because you disagree with something people gotta go "Ban that guy" "Report & move on" "Really?" What's wrong about the post? I didn't use a racist term. If I outright said the n-word I'd understand the backlash but I didn't.

oh well, if my post went over your head I guess you dont deserve the benefit of the doubt,

 

[GIANKRATOS]

Basically lol

 

[Fupri]

Did his avatar change to a salt shaker? lol

I changed it due to the sodium from this thread. I'm already expecting the inevitable for whatever was racist about saying ghetto & I didn't say all either.

 

[Chromium.Wings]

Uh, what?



Because you disagree with something people gotta go "Ban that guy" "Report & move on" "Really?" What's wrong about the post? I didn't use a racist term. If I outright said the n-word I'd understand the backlash but I didn't.

You seriously don't see the wrong in what you said? You pretty much implied that black voice actresses will all sound "ghetto", and Naughty Dog fell upon a white actress as if they're the only ones qualified or skilled enough to pull off the accent.

 

[WordsintheWater]

This game sure is beautiful, after playing the beta today I can't wait for it.

 

[User 73706]

This game sure is beautiful, after playing the beta today I can't wait for it.

Are you sure you're qualified to make that sort of evaluation?

 

[Faynwulf]

as an Ancient Greek he would probably have had very dark skin.

What?
First off Greeks didn't think of themselves as "black" or "white". They had most likely the skin color that they have today. Mabye a bit darker. But saying they had "very" dark skin is not true at all. Now if you're talking about Egyptians migrating into Greece... sure. Or if you're talking about Pre-Ancient Greece then you could mean the Pelasgians. But if you mean those, then that means that your Kratos argument doesn't work anymore. If Ancient greeks had "very" dark skin then we would see this still today. I really can't stand Skin Color debates. That is especially true when it comes to Ancient Civilizations. Guess what the Greeks probably didn't give two shits about these things. Back then they were much more divided by language and culture.

And to the character. She looks badass. I like that she just ignores his joking. Also I love Laura Baley so there's that.

 

[Memento]

I thought what an awesome strong female character.

.

But nooooo, people have a need to make everything overcomplicated...

 

[Gattsu25]

"Oh a new U4 trailer, let's see what gaf..."

This thread.

Dude, this is the same forum that had people complaining that they wouldn't be able to relate to any of the characters in GTA:SA when the first artwork leaked and showed CJ.

People were complaining that they feared that the entire soundtrack was going to be nothing but ghetto music, people fearing that the entire game was going to be lacking any form of culture, people just showing their ignorant asses in general.


So no, this doesn't surprise me.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Jesus Christ.

You introduce an awesome black character, and it comes with 5 tons of baggage.

This is pathetic.

 

[XxRampage07xX]

So good.

Holy shit! The graphics look insane.

 

[travisbickle]

The voice actor's probably not even the same height!!!

 

[Blobbers]

The facial animation looks so good. Can't stop watching the beginning. Naughty Wizards

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Uh, what?



Because you disagree with something people gotta go "Ban that guy" "Report & move on" "Really?" What's wrong about the post? I didn't use a racist term. If I outright said the n-word I'd understand the backlash but I didn't.

If you can't see what's wrong with the post, we know where the problems begin.

 

[Fupri]

Jesus Christ.

You introduce an awesome black character, and it comes with 5 tons of baggage.

This is pathetic.

I actually like the character tbh.

 

[Nuke Soda]

In ND I trust. Glad to see a new character.

 

[BabyFaceKillah]

this thread is

 

[Kenshin001]

I thought what an awesome strong female character.

Fair enough. A lot of people will interpret it that way too. Some people may feel uncomfortable beating up a woman though, especially those who may have been the victims of or exposed to domestic violence. I didn't get she was Australian either. She sounded kind of British to me which makes me wonder if they changed the ethnicity of the character to reflect more diversity.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

I love TLOU, it's one of my favourite games of all time, and Bioshock Infinite has a special place in my mind even though I don't think it's a fantastic game. But both Daisy Fitzroy and Marlene have the same trait of being willing to do absolutely anything to achieve their goals, and both of them exhibit moments of strong anger. The trait on it's own is not an issue and if there were other notable examples of people of colour in either game it wouldn't be an issue (I am aware of Henry and Sam in TLOU but

Spoiler

both of them die, as does Marlene)

. However, when the only black women in either game spend a lot of their time getting in the protagonist's way, it lends itself to a certain negative stereotype. Daisy is certainly the more poorly portrayed of the two, and as I said, Marlene has a very strong rationale and there is nuance to her character in the recordings you can find in the lab, but taken at face value it doesn't come across very well.

Again, I'm not saying either game was created with racist intent or anything like that. I think it is just an oversight but it's sad to see another possible oversight being committed.

I don't understand why you keep bringing up Bioshock Infinite. Different developer so it really doesn't belong in any type of pattern discussion when you are specifically disappointed in Naughty Dog because you felt that they were being progressive before.

And it's equally absurd to say that TLOU has few notable people of color and then immediately discount Henry and Sam and not mention Riley. TLOU has a relatively small number of major characters overall so 4 characters is actually a pretty significant portion of the primary cast.

 

[User 73706]

If you can't see what's wrong with the post, we know where the problems begin.

Bears repeating: the dude literally just said "if there wouldn't be backlash I would have just said 'a black VA would have her talking like an n-word' outright."

 

[Bold One]

This thread is spectacularly embarrassing

Any way I am very excited for the game and the new character reveal is intriguing

if you are hyped in any way for this game, I suggest you see yourself out...

 

[WordsintheWater]

Are you sure you're qualified to make that sort of evaluation?

Dude are you seriously getting on that I said maybe they held auditions and there was a black actress who did a worse job then Laura Bailey? Stop reaching

There's a maybe there for a reason. I'm not gonna sit here and imply racist tones without knowing the process they went through to cast the character. You can if you want, but don't judge me for thinking differently.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

What was your opinion of Riley in TLOU left behind?

I loved Riley. Again, I want to state that I love TLOU, I love Marlene, I love ND. But that doesn't mean I have to think that every facet of them is perfect.

I've only played Left Behind once when it came out on PS3 (while I've played TLOU fully twice, once recently), but from what I remember Riley was as deep and as nuanced a character as Ellie. Additionally, it was incredibly commendable of ND to include not only a woman of colour but a woman of colour who is also not heterosexual (or at least LGBT-curious), and have both that woman and another LGBT woman as the protagonists. Awesome stuff.

I don't understand why you keep bringing up Bioshock Infinite. Different developer so it really doesn't belong in any type of pattern discussion when you are specifically disappointed in Naughty Dog because you felt that they were being progressive before.

And it's equally absurd to say that TLOU has few notable people of color and then immediately discount Henry and Sam and not mention Riley. TLOU has a relatively small number of major characters overall so 4 characters is actually a pretty significant portion of the primary cast.

I brought up Daisy as an example of the trope in a game that came out that very same year, no less, as an example of how the industry still struggles with representation of black characters.

I get that TLOU has a very limited number of main cast members and none of them feel disposable, poorly written, or cannon fodder. But again, by the time the credits roll all of the black characters are

Spoiler

dead

.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

I find the lack of actual minority representation a real issue. I also think this looks quite a bit like Laura Bailey, with some features changed. As I recall, doesn't Naughty Dog base faces somewhat on their voice talents in order to better match up the lip syncing and facial expressions?

hey, i'm with on the "lack of actual minority representation" front. as a minority, i wish we could have equal footing. and it's disappointing that ND didn't use a PoC for the role. but then again, maybe bailey was better at it than others.

i disagree with the "digital blackface" however, because i don't see it besides the fact that they're both women. trying to stir shit up that doesn't exist, or piggybacking on the bigger issue (your first point) is just going to muddy the waters.

 

[Boogalogist]

Wow..awesome trailer to introduce a new character....

Wait..what's happening in here? I think....I'll just see myself out.

 

[udivision]

Jesus Christ.

You introduce an awesome black character, and it comes with 5 tons of baggage.

This is pathetic.

And that's why some devs would rather change their names to "Why" and "Bother."

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I was enjoying the character then I read this thread.

Jesus fucking christ. Come on guys. And I mean it on both sides.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

I changed it due to the sodium from this thread. I'm already expecting the inevitable for whatever was racist about saying ghetto & I didn't say all either.

What are you implying when you say Naughty Dog wanted an actress that didn't sound ghetto?

 

[sonicmj1]

Fair enough. A lot of people will interpret it that way too. Some people may feel uncomfortable beating up a woman though, especially those who may have been the victims of or exposed to domestic violence.

I'd prefer to wait for the people who actually feel uncomfortable to speak up.

I'm glad to see female characters showing up in more diverse roles in video games.

 

[IvorB]

Don't think "white people voices" are a thing. It's a stereotype. People might sound a certain way based on what culture they have been exposed to but it's not inherent to their skin color.

I can only imagine how people are going to flip out when they realise her accent isn't even one that's typical of black South Africans. It sounds like she's going for an Afrikaans accent which is what most people would term as a white South African accent.

 

[Fupri]

What are you implying when you say Naughty Dog wanted an actress that didn't sound ghetto?

If I say anymore people will just complain. So, off to read other stuff.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I was enjoying the character then I read this thread.

Jesus fucking christ. Come on guys. And I mean it on both sides.

Mean what, exactly?

 

[User 73706]

Dude are you seriously getting on that I said maybe they held auditions and there was a black actress who did a worse job then Laura Bailey? Stop reaching

There's a maybe there for a reason. I'm not gonna sit here and imply racist tones without knowing the process they went through to cast the character. You can if you want, but don't judge me for thinking differently.

I'm criticizing your "Laura Bailey won the Audition World Tournament" theory. ND's past few games have consistently had people of color be VAs, and regardless of UC4's standing with regards to inclusion of people of color, what I'm saying specifically is that there's no way in hell ND went around asking for a black Australian VA first but none of them were "qualified" enough so they resorted to Laura Bailey. More than likely, Laura Baily voices multiple characters (e.g. background NPCs) or had a more utilitarian role within the game's development process so as to warrant her inclusion over a black VA, which is pretty damn common in the game industry in terms of dev teams using similar ensembles to produce titles and whatnot.

Aggressively trying to shoo people away because "ND tried their hardest to keep things PC, and people still aren't happy" isn't representative of the situation at all.

 

[ubersticky]

This thread's so delicious, it must be fattening.

But then again..

 

[Gattsu25]

So good.

The animation is really something else.

Also, that lighting looks impeccable.

 

[ShutterMunster]

hey, i'm with on the "lack of actual minority representation" front. as a minority, i wish we could have equal footing. and it's disappointing that ND didn't use a PoC for the role. but then again, maybe bailey was better at it than others.

i disagree with the "digital blackface" however, because i don't see it besides the fact that they're both women. trying to stir shit up that doesn't exist, or piggybacking on the bigger issue (your first point) is just going to muddy the waters.

This. All this. ✊🏾

 

[Mory Dunz]

Anika Rose is good right? Heh, should've used her.

I think that's her name

 

[CrichtonKicks]

I get that TLOU has a very limited number of main cast members and none of them feel disposable, poorly written, or cannon fodder. But again, by the time the credits roll all of the black characters are

Spoiler

dead

.

TLOU spoilers

Spoiler

Every major character is dead except Joel, Ellie, and Joel's brother.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I love TLOU, it's one of my favourite games of all time, and Bioshock Infinite has a special place in my mind even though I don't think it's a fantastic game. But both Daisy Fitzroy and Marlene have the same trait of being willing to do absolutely anything to achieve their goals, and both of them exhibit moments of strong anger. The trait on it's own is not an issue and if there were other notable examples of people of colour in either game it wouldn't be an issue (I am aware of Henry and Sam in TLOU but

Spoiler

both of them die, as does Marlene)

. However, when the only black women in either game spend a lot of their time getting in the protagonist's way, it lends itself to a certain negative stereotype. Daisy is certainly the more poorly portrayed of the two, and as I said, Marlene has a very strong rationale and there is nuance to her character in the recordings you can find in the lab, but taken at face value it doesn't come across very well.

Again, I'm not saying either game was created with racist intent or anything like that. I think it is just an oversight but it's sad to see another possible oversight being committed.

You talk about how Marlene is constantly getting in the protagonists way,

Spoiler

but this isn't even true until the very end of the game. Once Joel decides to transport Ellie, you don't even see Marlene again until probably ten hours later in the game, and that's at the end.

I've asked you where she's portrayed as being angry, but you just keep saying that she is without actually giving examples of when that is.

Spoiler

When you first meet her she isn't angry at all. She tells Joel and Tess that she'll get the weapons for them and more if they help transport something for her, and then proceeds to help them out. Once you meet up with Ellie, she spends her time trying to calmly explain the situation to everyone (even though she's wounded). She tries to calm both Ellie and Tess down in the scene. Those two are the only ones angry in the scene. When you meet up with her at the end of the game with the Fireflies she's again calm and simply explains to Joel that what Ellie has is a gift and this is what need to happen. She never exhibits any anger. And then the end sequence is the closest she gets to being angry. But even then she's trying to calmly explain the situation to Joel.

I'm genuinely curious about where you're coming from with the anger angle, but you aren't explaining it. I understand where you're coming from with Daisy, but she isn't even remotely similar to Marlene as a character.

 

[Dazza]

Holy crap the textures on her hair. Guys! Curly hair in games looks like hair now!

Strangely I didn't notice at first because it seemed to natural. Whereas in most games I notice it because it's so bad

 

[TheVampire]

So good.

I thought that was live action for a second

 

[Numb]

If I say anymore people will just complain. So, off to read other stuff.

Can you tell someone is ghetto by posts?

 

[Chromium.Wings]

If I say anymore people will just complain. So, off to read other stuff.

Well, if you don't (and can't) explain your seemingly racist sentiment, then of course people are going to call you out on it.

 

[D i Z]

Holy shit, this thread.

Nadine Ross brought the fire!

 

[WordsintheWater]

I'm criticizing your "Laura Bailey won the Audition World Tournament" theory. ND's past few games have consistently had people of color be VAs, and regardless of UC4's standing with regards to inclusion of people of color, what I'm saying specifically is that there's no way in hell ND went around asking for a black Australian VA first but none of them were "qualified" enough so they resorted to Laura Bailey. More than likely, Laura Baily voices multiple characters (e.g. background NPCs) or had a more utilitarian role within the game's development process so as to warrant her inclusion over a black VA, which is pretty damn common in the game industry in terms of dev teams using similar ensembles to produce titles and whatnot.

Aggressively trying to shoo people away because "ND tried their hardest to keep things PC, and people still aren't happy" isn't representative of the situation at all.

Damn saying maybe that happened is shooing people away? Is it because I said "shittier job" is that the aggressive part? That's just how I talk, I'm sorry it's too much for you. I'm just saying maybe that's what happened if you wanna take what I said as something different then enjoy, but please stop quoting me saying the same thing over and over. It doesn't help your point.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

The animation is really something else.

Also, that lighting looks impeccable.

Her facial animations look off to me. I don't know why, but I'm getting some uncanny valley feelings that I don't get with Drake or Scully or his brother. It's not bad, but I guess it's a bit jarring because it doesn't appear AS good as the others

 

[User 73706]

Can you tell someone is ghetto by posts?

aggressive keystrokes