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Uncharted is a legit great TPS (mechanics, encounters, level design)

DrD

Member
I found the combat fun, the level design fits the mechanics really well. The major problems I had with it are that the actual gunplay isn't very strong compared to other shooters and that fighting waves of enemies becomes tedious.

Uncharted 4 looks like it's addressing both of these complaints. While I haven't played it, the gunplay does look greatly improved, which is expected after The Last of Us. Also, you can now skip entire encounters if you want to as seen in the PSX demo. Uncharted 4 has some serious potential.
 
Filling a normal human enemy with half a clip of bullets will never be good shooter design. Gunplay is the worst aspect of Uncharted in every way.
Its why 2 is my favourite, because it tends to rely more on set pieces to move you forward than horde mode areas where these sponge baddies keep spawning in.
Fuck Syria in UC3. The enemy spawns are terrible and lack of cover has you running around like a headless chicken. Awful.
 
Agreed. The posts about UC not being a great TPS boggles my mind honestly. The argument for "bullet sponge" enemies are easily explained:

The guns in UC2 had bullet spread meaning bullets didn't come up exactly in the direction your reticule is on. You could be aiming at the enemy and shoot but the bullet could actually travel somewhere else and not him them. It doesn't take a long time to kill enemies at all in UC2. If it did, you just were missing and whatnot. in UC3 they changed it to recoil and whatnot which was okay since you could tell you were landing shots with the hit markers and whanot. UC4 looks perfect.
 

Harmen

Member
Fully agreed, fantastic games with great encounterdesign. Especially the verticality and creative use of the environments is great. Yes, there are some waves too much here and there, but that is hardly the case for most of the combat. And I have no clue what people mean with UC enemies being significant bullet sponges.
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
UC2/UC3 both hold up very well. UC1 not so much.

Had a blast replaying them in collection and burned through both in two weekends. The only thing that I didn't like was the half assed stealth (which was pretty much fixed for me in TLOU) and how once one enemy was alerted every other enemy on the map know exactly where you are.
 

Revven

Member
Filling a normal human enemy with half a clip of bullets will never be good shooter design. Gunplay is the worst aspect of Uncharted in every way.
Its why 2 is my favourite, because it tends to rely more on set pieces to move you forward than horde mode areas where these sponge baddies keep spawning in.
Fuck Syria in UC3. The enemy spawns are terrible and lack of cover has you running around like a headless chicken. Awful.

Bullet sponges do not exist in any of the games. It is a myth.

It takes four bullets from the default pistol in all three games to down an enemy. It takes slightly more with an AK. If they have armor on, it makes sense it would take more bullets to peel away at the armor but... that's why you go for headshots.

You can literally turn any of the games on, put them on Easy (enemy health does not change by difficulty, it is the same across all difficulties), and test weapon damage yourself. I guarantee you not a single weapon takes more than 10 bullets to kill an enemy without armor. And if it does? You have terrible aim, you're not compensating for a weapon's recoil, or you are not burst firing.

People who commonly claim Uncharted has bullet sponge enemies don't realize they are missing about 90% of their bullets.
 
It has a slow start mechanically and can drag on replays, but as an intro to the story and world it's great. Borneo is legit.

Also, the monastery is great. It skews the pacing a bit too much towards combat (although there are still some good pacing moments in there), but the encounters there are pretty much all good.

No, that is how I would describe Uncharted 3, not 2.

And what pacing moments are you talking about? What good encounters? It's a crapton of armored enemies and snipers that aren't fun to fight.
 
No, that is how I would describe Uncharted 3, not 2.

And what pacing moments are you talking about? What good encounters? It's a crapton of armored enemies and snipers that aren't fun to fight.

Pacing moments being traversal, story, and puzzle sections.

There are more snipers and armored enemies, but that doenst make them bad encounters, just more challenging. I particularly like the snowy courtyard (that has a lot of snipers) and the building where you have to fight up floors to reach Schafer. Plenty of other awesome fights like the sniper towers and guys that charge the bridge, and the encounter early in the monastery where a turret is firing at you and you have to choose which path to get around behind it.
 

SpokkX

Member
I suppose so. I can't really disagree with anything you've said.

Unfortunately, replaying the Uncharted games via The Nathan Drake Collection has shown me that these games haven't aged well, at least for me. I'm not enjoying myself nearly as much as I did when I first played them. The first game in particular is just plain awful.

Fortunately, Uncharted 4 seems to be giving the player a lot more freedom in how they approach things. Replaying the trilogy has really dampened my excitement for that game though, I'll admit.

I still adore The Last of Us at least.

I agree with this. After replaying uncharted i have come to realize that the series, so far, has quite boring ganeplay. Used to love u2, sadly it does not hold up unlike tlou which i still love
 

Ra1den

Member
Yeah I find the gunplay and encounters to be fantastic. The level design and traversal abilities allow cooler fights than most other TPS games. Thinking back to uncharted 2 in the city, that was absolutely amazing encounter design.

Only issue I ever had was when the aiming was messed up when UC3 first came out.
 
It really isn't. Bullet sponge enemies are really uninteresting. Don't even get me started on the miserably bad boss encounters. The final boss in particular is shameful.

Uncharted is all about presentation.
 
It really isn't. Bullet sponge enemies are really uninteresting. Don't even get me started on the miserably bad boss encounters. The final boss in particular is shameful.

Uncharted is all about presentation.

Yeah one hit head shots and 3-4 body shots for unarmored enemies (ie 90% of them) are serious bullet sponges.
 
We're in page 3 and i still don't understand the complain about bullet sponge ennemies.

The only place were they were was the MP . in solo , it's was something like 4 hits at most.

There was like one ennemy type that lasted more and they weared full body armor
 
Yeah never got the bullet sponge complaint. Pretty sure in Gears of War the enemies take as much, if not more, punishment than the ones in Uncharted, yet you never hear people calling out Gears for "bullet sponge enemies".
 

RefigeKru

Banned
I can't remember the enemies in Uncharted being spongy at all, I mean compared to COD sure but compared to almost every other third person shooter I've played not even close.
 

Devil

Member
I bought every single one of them on PS3 even though I could never really like the games but I so damn much wanted to. The main reason being that the gunplay always felt extremely off. Movement feels so damn bad in my mind but aiming feels even worse. I thin unresponsive is the best way to describe it.

My last hope to be able to like the series was the thought that maybe it's not the game's fault, but maybe the DS3 is just bad for shooters. I hated playing Killzone and Borderlands with the DS3 as well, those sticks are terrible. Therefore I was eagerly awaiting the UC Collection demo on PS4. Sadly, it felt just as bad as the original, a problem I never had with other shooters played with the great DS4.

Yes, the game encourages movement, through level design, enemy AI etc. But that doesn't help if moving just feels bad.

Yeah never got the bullet sponge complaint. Pretty sure in Gears of War the enemies take as much, if not more, punishment than the ones in Uncharted, yet you never hear people calling out Gears for "bullet sponge enemies".

Could be because the enemies in Gears are designed to make it seem logical that they can take a lot of bullets. They LOOK like fleshy mountains, sponges you have to overflow with bullets or crack them with a single strong hit. It doesn't feel bad to pump a Lancer magazin into a Locust, but it just looks weird to do the same with some of the tougher enemies in UC. But I don't like the weapon feedback in UC in general. Neither enemy reaction, nor the feedback using the guns themselves.
 

shira

Member
Endless waves of bullet sponge enemies doesn't qualify as great combat to me.

My main problem with Uncharted is that you need to kill a few thousand humans to "win" Nonstop murder and shooting people to death - that's not a game to me.
 
My main problem with Uncharted is that you need to kill a few thousand humans to "win" Nonstop murder and shooting people to death - that's not a game to me.

So not really a problem with Uncharted specifically but any shooter ever made?


Could be because the enemies in Gears are designed to make it seem logical that they can take a lot of bullets. They LOOK like fleshy mountains, sponges you have to overflow with bullets or crack them with a single strong hit. It doesn't feel bad to pump a Lancer magazin into a Locust, but it just looks weird to do the same with some of the tougher enemies in UC. But I don't like the weapon feedback in UC in general. Neither enemy reaction, nor the feedback using the guns themselves.

The only enemies that take that kind of abuse in Uncharted though are guys covered in armor that breaks off as you shoot it. If you shoot an exposed spot then they go down fast.
 
Always found the gameplay in Uncharted to be great, I like the mobility offered in most combat encounters and I'm happy to see that ND added verticality in UC4 now. Can't wait.

My main problem with Uncharted is that you need to kill a few thousand humans to "win" Nonstop murder and shooting people to death - that's not a game to me.

What is a game to you?
 
When playing uncharted games I'm always moving because: Enemies spam grenades (which is a poor design), the are heavy enemies (which is a great design), sitting doesn't work at long range (which would be fine if there was variety in your arsenal), I always move in shooters, even if they don't require like Warfighter.

My biggest problem with Uncharted's design is the lack of weapon variety. I barely remember times when I didn't use an AK.
 
When playing uncharted games I'm always moving because: Enemies spam grenades (which is a poor design), the are heavy enemies (which is a great design), sitting doesn't work at long range (which would be fine if there was variety in your arsenal), I always move in shooters, even if they don't require like Warfighter.

My biggest problem with Uncharted's design is the lack of weapon variety. I barely remember times when I didn't use an AK.

Eh I think weapon variety is fine. In 3 you have a weak handgun you barely use at the beginning, a normal handgun, an uzi, a magnum, a sniper magnum, a shotgun handgun, a double barrel shotgun, a semi auto shotgun, an AK, a stronger assault rifle, a sub machine gun, a scoped burst rifle, a sniper rifle, a grenade launcher, an RPG, and a heavy machine gun. That pretty much runs the gamut of close, mid, long range, stopping power and auto fire. Most encounters you can find a decent combination of all of these. The other games have similar weapon sets give or take a few.
 

Revven

Member
My biggest problem with Uncharted's design is the lack of weapon variety. I barely remember times when I didn't use an AK.

You didn't look hard enough, then. In Uncharted 1 & 2 they hide power weapons before and inside combat arenas. In 3 they hand them to you in the most obvious of places. There's a ton of spots in all three games where it is to your advantage to find better weapons before or inside combat arenas to make them even easier. You'll find things like the Desert-5 or Wes-44, sometimes M4s (the better assault rifle than the AK), the Grenade Launcher or even a sniper rifle before or in the combat arenas.

A notable easy example is early on in Uncharted 2 in like Chapter... 5, the first part of Nepal. When you're coming up to the part just before Chloe shoots a rocket at a truck there's a hidden Wes-44 on the second floor you can grab before the combat arena to make it 100x easier.

AND, if you stealth kill one of the goons in the previous area he drops a Wes-44 which results in you having 12 bullets instead of 6 if you don't stealth kill him.

Luckily, I have a video of it showing you to prove it. :p

I stealth killed the guy I'm talking about before where the video starts hence why I have 12 bullets in my Wes instead of 6 when I pick it up on the second floor.

Point being, there's plenty of variety of weapons and good enough reason to pick up better weapons when you can especially as you kill enemies who do have better weapons than you (see: Uncharted 1 whenever enemies have an M39, Desert-5, Wes-44, or a SAS-12)
 
My main problem with Uncharted is that you need to kill a few thousand humans to "win" Nonstop murder and shooting people to death - that's not a game to me.
So I don't have to do any of the platformimg or puzzle solving to beat the game?

Other than shooting and killing what else do you do in other shooters?
 
Always found the gameplay in Uncharted to be great, I like the mobility offered in most combat encounters and I'm happy to see that ND added verticality in UC4 now. Can't wait.

There's always been good verticality in the games (way less in 1 of course), it's just that they're pushing it wayyyy further with 4.

That 's with god mode on because he literally takes no damage.

If the way the game was intended to be played requires you to play on the easiest difficulty then it's bad game design. Even on Normal none of that would be possible, he's getting shot the whole time taking no damage.

On normal and even hard you can absolutely pull off similar stuff.
 
OP I 200% agree with you. After reading some of these posts, I find myself confused. I truly feel like I'm playing a totally different game. "Spongy enemies" Personally Uncharted feels more dynamic than any other TPS I've played.
 

Superflat

Member
UC2 and UC3 have legit great battle arenas to play around in (UC1 not so much), and I'm sorely in need of another UC game because there's no TPS games that give me what this series does.
 
It has long been my belief that many of the people who claim Uncharted games have bad combat, are actually terrible at playing Uncharted games.

They often say things like "bullet sponges" or "Unfair" or "it wasn't worth the effort to get past part x."

My feeling is they stay put and play it like a straight cover shooter. That is the wrong way to get the most out of UC.

I totally agree about movement and fluid combat.

ND are masterful when it comes to encounters and scenario design.
 
Strange, I largely agree, but I always felt that most of the combat zones don't live up to the games full potential. Only a few really stick out in my mind as really making good use of their combat sandbox.
 

Krentist

Neo Member
I'd like to personally slap whoever thought those bruisers in UC3 were a good idea, the ones that rush you and force you into QTEs.

I also still get mad thinking back to Uncharted 1 and remembering how many times I'd blatantly headshot an enemy in the face and they'd still shake it of or it looked like it didn't register.
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
Sorry, but endless enemies, poor gunplay and sloppy general movement controls don't make for a great third person shooter.

Uncharted seems like a game that Naughty made that was intended to be a story driven adventure game first but it's like they thought they should give it a lot of shooting because Gears of War was the dominant TPS at the time and they didn't pay enough care to the shooting.
 
Pacing moments being traversal, story, and puzzle sections.

There are more snipers and armored enemies, but that doenst make them bad encounters, just more challenging. I particularly like the snowy courtyard (that has a lot of snipers) and the building where you have to fight up floors to reach Schafer. Plenty of other awesome fights like the sniper towers and guys that charge the bridge, and the encounter early in the monastery where a turret is firing at you and you have to choose which path to get around behind it.

Personally, I didn't find it difficult, just tedious. It's a shame too because U2's middle (the beginning of Nepal to the beginning of the monastery) is absolutely fantastic.
 

Zukuu

Banned
I absolutely hated the gameplay. It's the only game series I have ever played on EASY, because I DETESTED the shooting-spree shit so much. There is imo nothing great about it, in fact I would denounce the overreliance of "conveniently-placed-waist-height-covers" everywhere. It's laughable and totally immersion breaking.
 
I've never been a fan of Uncharted's combat, even though I like the series well enough. It's always been a "more than the sum of its parts" kind of thing for me.

In particular, I've always had trouble with the movement in combat. A lot of fans say that you're meant to stay moving during fights, but this has never clicked with me for whatever reason. Nathan is fragile even on lower difficulties, and enemies come from so many directions in most encounters that running around always ends up with me getting rocked from some off-screen dude I would have no way of knowing about unless I was carefully behind cover surveying for enemies.

Also, the lack of decent hit reactions in all the games (2 is best in this regard but still not ideal) and the poor sound effects in 1 and 2 really make the combat feel dull.
 
I've only played 3 and I don't understand how enemies are bullet sponges, they go down pretty fast, even faster in the demo of the NDC.
 
The shooting could be better.


But the level design and encounterdesign istop notch.

It's like a modern day Time Crisis.

Re: Enemy sponge. Only in UC1.
 
Inwouodnt agree. Some things are ok, but the near death events that keep breaking up my.movement in half the game is eye rolling. Not to mention the hundreds of other small scripts. It's a really hard game to replay at all.
 

The Lamp

Member
I'm almost convinced that most people suck at shooting. Like honestly. Bullet spongey enemies in UC2? Aside from the armored enemies, I don't see it.

Me neither. I play on Hard mode and it's easy as sin to land headshots and take enemies out.

I completely agree, OP. The gameplay is awesome and fluid and has a totally different feel from most TPS.

Bullet sponges do not exist in any of the games. It is a myth.

It takes four bullets from the default pistol in all three games to down an enemy. It takes slightly more with an AK. If they have armor on, it makes sense it would take more bullets to peel away at the armor but... that's why you go for headshots.

You can literally turn any of the games on, put them on Easy (enemy health does not change by difficulty, it is the same across all difficulties), and test weapon damage yourself. I guarantee you not a single weapon takes more than 10 bullets to kill an enemy without armor. And if it does? You have terrible aim, you're not compensating for a weapon's recoil, or you are not burst firing.

People who commonly claim Uncharted has bullet sponge enemies don't realize they are missing about 90% of their bullets.

Yep. I'm pretty convinced a lot of people don't realize they just suck at Uncharted.
 

Warablo

Member
Uncharted would have been a better Tomb Raider game, and now the new Tomb Raiders are a better Uncharted. I can't speak on the new one though.

I found myself putting the difficulty on easy on Uncharted just to get through the games. The only thing that hold those games together to me is the like-able characters and sense of adventure. I haven't tried the games on the PS4, but I bet they play a lot better, hopefully they don't have that stupid aiming bug either.
 
You're right, OP. Uncharted, on normal or even on hard, is still a fantastic third-person shooter. Most of the encounters do really rely on you, as Drake, to be scrambling from cover to cover, kicking ass and taking names in the process. With grenades, rocket launchers, sniper rifles, etc, it forces you to make use of the game's combat environments to really survive.

The issue is, once you begin to play on Crushing, this all goes to pieces. Enemies become difficult to kill, which wouldn't be bad on its own if it weren't for the fact the game loves to throw a bunch of them at you simultaneously. The scrambling nature of combat is cancelled out by the fact that 2 or 3 shots will kill you, making it more risky to move around in combat. That, combined with the grenade spam and the inability to throw them back in 1 & 2, gets you stuck in situations where you just need to get lucky to progress. In 3 (the only one I've successfully completed on Crushing), the set-piece moments (cruise ship shootouts, jumping from horse to truck to horse again, Ubar and the djinns, the escape from Marlowe's hideout) all become exercises in frustration because of the coalescence of all these factors. The cruise ship shootout sequences alone give me Uncharted PTSD because of how I survived by the skin of my teeth due to luck and gaming the mechanics to survive. That is arguably the games' Achilles Heel. The cinematic experience you get is because of this carefully balanced set of rules governing combat, making it so its doesn't become frustrating and makes you feel badass. When you bump up the difficulty, the rules all fall apart and every combat situation is a moment of dread instead of anticipation.
 

balohna

Member
It can have all the mechanics it wants in order to encourage movement, but it didn't actually succeed. If you give a player a gun they aren't going to assume it does more damage close up. They're going to try to use the gun as an effective ranged weapon... You know, like a gun.

They're good games and people like them, but I honestly had no idea the depth described in the OP exists. If they want me to get up close, encourage it more strongly. Make an enemy type that forces me to get close or provide me with cool flanking options. I had some fun moments of sneaking up on enemies or using hand to hand combat, but never with the bullet sponge enemies. They took a fuckton of bullets so I tried to keep my distance. Especially since they often had shotguns.

Uncharted 4's combat seems more open, which is cool. In 1,2 and 3 it often became "avoid rocket guy until you can get an angle on him or sneak up on him, enjoy approaching bullet sponge guys first though.
 

Ansatz

Member
Vanquish is a god tier TPS in quality and delivers new ideas on top of that. Uncharted is a mostly good and occasionally great standard fare TPS, not GOTY worthy or anything like that from a gameplay point of view. The UC trilogy is entertaining and worth playing, no more no less. TLoU is much better
 
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