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Uncharted is a legit great TPS (mechanics, encounters, level design)

MistBreeze

Member
I know a lot of people say uncharted mobs are bullet sponges,,,,,, but gears of wars enemies and locust take many bullets to fall down and nobody criticize it.

anyway uncharted combat is fast based and fluid......

the hip fire shooting while running and blind cover shooting is among the best mechanically in TPS genre......

what I want them is to develop the movement to not seem somewhat floaty.
 
The Last of Us > Uncharted
I won't argue there. The Last of Us not only does some of the same things as Uncharted like forcing you to move, strategize, and think on you feet, but the gunplay itself feels extremely satisfying.

Also, the lack of decent hit reactions in all the games (2 is best in this regard but still not ideal) and the poor sound effects in 1 and 2 really make the combat feel dull.

While I personally think the Uncharted series is one of the best TPS franchises I have to agree with you that the hit reactions and sound effects do really suck and I feel is a big reason why people think enemies are bullet sponges. You have a game like Gears or Halo which have enemies that arguably take more damage than Uncharted, but are so much more satisfying to shoot at because they actually react to individual shots. In Uncharted the enemies aren't exactly satisfying to shoot. Uncharteds guns lack that satisfying punch.

Thankfully it appears ND learned from The Last of Us' extremely satisfying gunplay and looks to have applied it to Uncharted 4.
 

Game4life

Banned
Vanquish is a god tier TPS in quality and delivers new ideas on top of that. Uncharted is a mostly good and occasionally great standard fare TPS, not GOTY worthy or anything like that from a gameplay point of view. The UC trilogy is entertaining and worth playing, no more no less. TLoU is much better

Vanquish wishes it had pacing, encounter and level design of Uncharted 2. Vanquish is a perfect example of a game that gives the player competent mechanics and does not have competent level designers to back up those mechanics. I cant remember one memorable level in Vanquish precisely for those reasons.
 

jwk94

Member
So not really a problem with Uncharted specifically but any shooter ever made?
Nah that's a huge problem with Uncharted 1. There are barely any moments when you're not shooting someone and it's ridiculously annoying. I remember end of Chapter 12 i think, I was admiring the scenery after a cutscene and as i panned the camera in front of Nate, I see Elena behind him draw her gun and start shooting at an enemy. Like I had just gotten out of a fight before jumping into that cutscene. It was unnecessary.
 
Vanquish wishes it had pacing, encounter and level design of Uncharted 2. Vanquish is a perfect example of a game that gives the player competent mechanics and does not have competent level designers to back up those mechanics. I cant remember one memorable level in Vanquish precisely for those reasons.

I'd have to replay Vanquish but to me that game is RE6. Great core mechanics and abysmal level design that ruins it.
 
I really, really don't agree.

I think Resident Evil 4 had more interesting encounters and enemies that twist the approach you have to take to defeat them than the entire Uncharted quadrilogy combined (RE 4 is even more about movement and careful consideration when to shoot).

I hate that Uncharted games feel so incredibly vanilla in their campaigns. There are no wire traps to deactivate, no bear-traps or even something as cool as Vanquish's boost mechanic... no anything that deviates from straight combat arenas with like 3 enemy types to kill.

The set pieces are just visual fluff to hide how bad and by the numbers the overall gamedesign really is.

Uncharted is the best tps i have ever played!

I legitimately don't get how someone could say this. Seriously. Even something as low budget as Revelations 2 obliterates Uncharted in the combat and controls department. I played the Uncharted collection demo right after a long session of Rev2.

It was terrible.
 

-TK-

Member
Hah, no way. Uncharted is one of those series which will feel dated so fast. That happens when you make a medicore game with nice visuals. Uncharted 1-3 feels dated already and are far from great classics which will stand the test of time.
 
The shooting feels like it's there to pad the game to an acceptable length. Long ass waves of enemies with poor gunplay and game feel. You enter an obvious combat zone with chest high walls and prepare for disappointment.

TLoU was so much better in all of these aspects. Generations ahead. It's disappointing to see Naughty Dog going back to Uncharted when they are capable of so much more.
 
It is basic at best. It does a bare minimum job to push the narrative, but lacks depth or variety to stand on its own.

None of those weapons are unique or interesting. The game plays you by limiting your arsenal and providing specific level-based guns/ammo only.

Almost all enemies are a different weapon grunt. Gears has all sorts of locust ranging from self detonating small insects to the giant leviathans and worms. Uncharted boss battles (if you stretch that word long enough) were a heavily scripted tank/heli battles. The only exceptions was Uncharted 2 end battle.
 
UC2 shits on Max Payne 3 and Gears from a great height. Hell I cant think of any single level in Gears that is better designed than UC2. Gears is as banal as they come in terms of encounter and level design.
And still I can't remember those great encounters and leven desings from UC. From both Gears and Max Payne I can remember plenty even though mostly I don't like Gears level desings. And verticality and many ways to tackle combat scenarios are hugely exaggerated when people praise UC gameplay.
 

post-S

Member
A game with terrible gunplay can't possibly be a great TPS.
Uncharted 4 might be different tho, since TLOU's gunplay was pretty good
 

Ansatz

Member
Vanquish wishes it had pacing, encounter and level design of Uncharted 2. Vanquish is a perfect example of a game that gives the player competent mechanics and does not have competent level designers to back up those mechanics. I cant remember one memorable level in Vanquish precisely for those reasons.

The level design in Vanquish is all in the space you're given versus the types of enemies you're facing and how many of them , plus the placement of covers, walls and items.

You constantly have to make a decision, in terms of which weapons are the best for a particular part, but at the same time balance with the long term planning due to how the weapon lvl system works (you can only lvl up a weapon that has full ammo). Vanquish is all about discovering the most effective way of clearing a level as fast as possible while taking as little damage as possible, that's where the brilliance comes from, juggling all the factors to get the best possible outcome. It's like an elaborate puzzle.

I don't get what you mean with pacing, the gameplay is extremely fast paced and you immediately move to the next area after you've completed the given scenario, with almost no story/cutscene moments that take away player control.
 

jg4xchamp

Member
Uncharted 2 is when that style of combat was more than good, but the combat in Uncharted 1 and 3 are dog shit.

Mechanics by any definition are not great in that series. I'll concede to good with the shooting in Uncharted 2, I think it's snappy enough, has solid feedback, enemies could sell the hits a bit better. Not enough finesse required to really work with that shooting, but it is what it is. But great? It's outclassed. Considerably.
 
I feel like people who can't give chapters 4-22 of Uncharted 2 their due as some of the best designed EVER in a TPS in terms of pacing and encounter design are people I wouldn't get along with. RE4 is the only other shooter even comparable in having a string of consecutive hours of incredibly well executed action scenarios.
 

EGM1966

Member
I find the combat much better than many argue here but not quite as good as you note in your OP but I do agree 100% that too many people clearly play huddled behind the first bit more f cover and are "doing it wrong".

The key to Uncharted is definitely movement during combat and also appreciating the integration of the combat to the greater narrative. U2 achieves this best still.
 

Game4life

Banned
The level design in Vanquish is all in the space you're given versus the types of enemies you're facing and how many of them , plus the placement of covers, walls and items.

You constantly have to make a decision, in terms of which weapons are the best for a particular part, but at the same time balance with the long term planning due to how the weapon lvl system works (you can only lvl up a weapon that has full ammo). Vanquish is all about discovering the most effective way of clearing a level as fast as possible while taking as little damage as possible, that's where the brilliance comes from, juggling all the factors to get the best possible outcome. It's like an elaborate puzzle.

I don't get what you mean with pacing, the gameplay is extremely fast paced and you immediately move to the next area after you've completed the given scenario, with almost no story/cutscene moments that take away player control.

The bolded is like a basic requirement in level design and not a high bar. I expect some ingenuity and variety to go along with that too. Each time a level started in Vanquish after the forced walking sections I did not go woah how am I going to tackle this or wow this looks like a scenario somewhat different from what came before. RE4 would be a good example of how to churn out constantly interesting scenarios without sacrificing mechanical complexity. Vanquish in my opinion utterly fails at it while UC2 excels in it.

I feel like people who can't give chapters 4-22 of Uncharted 2 their due as some of the best designed EVER in a TPS in terms of pacing and encounter design are people I wouldn't get along with. RE4 is the only other shooter even comparable in having a string of consecutive hours of incredibly well executed action scenarios.

Yeah RE4 is the only other shooter that compares favorably to UC2 pacing, scenario, encounter and level design wise. I wonder if we will ever get a game as well paced as UC2 this gen :(. With all the boring ass open world bloat with meaningless RPG fluff built in I guess not but one can hope Druckley bring their A game again this gen.
 

KalBalboa

Banned
UC2 shits on Max Payne 3 and Gears from a great height. Hell I cant think of any single level in Gears that is better designed than UC2. Gears is as banal as they come in terms of encounter and level design.

Now, I love Uncharted 2 as much as the next red-blooded American, but it has different strengths than Max Payne 3.

Max Payne 3's gun play is frankly unparalleled, to me, when it comes to third person shooters.
 

Game4life

Banned
Now, I love Uncharted 2 as much as the next red-blooded American, but it has different strengths than Max Payne 3.

Max Payne 3's gun play is frankly unparalleled, to me, when it comes to third person shooters.

Nothing wrong with Max Payne 3's gun play. It is the level and encounter design that i have a problem with. That along with the zillion cutscenes makes it an absolute chore and straight away prevents it from coming in any top TPS conversations for me.
 

balohna

Member
I know a lot of people say uncharted mobs are bullet sponges,,,,,, but gears of wars enemies and locust take many bullets to fall down and nobody criticize it.

anyway uncharted combat is fast based and fluid......

the hip fire shooting while running and blind cover shooting is among the best mechanically in TPS genre......

what I want them is to develop the movement to not seem somewhat floaty.

Eh, in Gears the Lancer may take a lot of shots to kill but it has a ton of ammo. You can fire it non-stop for a while. Other weapons will end the encounters quicker, but with their own drawbacks.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
Unfortunately, only the people that dived into the multiplayer understand Uncharted's mechanics.

There's a reason the MP was very popular, & it's not because of the story as some would like to attribute its success to.
 

Keihart

Member
Thanks for making such a detailed OP about it, it's tiring triying to discuss this so many times and explaining the same things again.

Depth and convuluted are not the same, yes.
Simple can have depth, that is uncharted combat.

Edit: for the naysayers, if you don't find fun in moving and shooting while switching from melee to ranged combat as you do in uncharted, then there is nothing else. Thats were the fun lies in uncharted's combat, you can actually fight an recreate what combat would look like in a mix of indiana jones and die hard movie.
When you start playing while moving and jumping and using melee, contextual animations give the game a whole other level of fun.
As and example, how many of you have seen Drake do drop kicks, suplex, pulling granade pings, using his gun to knock dow enemies, the wall smash, the sliding cock punch, the "hold this" atack, grabig new weapons in mid air, throwing people out of windows, the stealth fliying elbow attack and so on
I might have to pick up the hd collection just to do a video with proper combat....
 

Bebpo

Banned
Best TPS I've played is still Vanquish. One thing I do like about Uncharted and Vanquish is I like TPS games that force you to keep moving. The sit behind a wall and pop out for a few shots, go back, pop out, go back trend that Gears started and dozens of games copied for 5+ years is mind numbingly dull imo. TPS games that keep you moving constantly feel like action games rather than hide behind cover games.
 
I haven't played many TPS games, but if Uncharted is a great one, it's a genre I'm going to make sure I avoid.

I found Uncharted to have stiff controls, bullet sponge enemies, boring weapons, and just all around mediocre gameplay.
 

Footos22

Member
The shooting feels like it's there to pad the game to an acceptable length. Long ass waves of enemies with poor gunplay and game feel. You enter an obvious combat zone with chest high walls and prepare for disappointment.

TLoU was so much better in all of these aspects. Generations ahead. It's disappointing to see Naughty Dog going back to Uncharted when they are capable of so much more.

Why. They will take what they learned in tlou and apply that to Uc4. The first video they showed was a very varied and fun open encounter but Carry on.
 

Metal-Geo

Member
My personal experience with the games has always been "yeah, I'm having fun! Wait... no, it's time to shoot things again, damnit."

The sum of my experience with the Uncharted games as well. For a third person shooter, I can't say I'm enjoying the shooting part much at all. To the point I find it just tedious, really.

The games do so many things right with its presentation - especially on a technical level. But when a set of enemies pop-up into the level I sigh and mumble to myself "fine, let's get it over with."

Shooters are one of my most favorite genres. But the combat parts of the Uncharted games feel just 'meh' to me.
 

MistBreeze

Member
I really, really don't agree.

I think Resident Evil 4 had more interesting encounters and enemies that twist the approach you have to take to defeat them than the entire Uncharted quadrilogy combined (RE 4 is even more about movement and careful consideration when to shoot).

I hate that Uncharted games feel so incredibly vanilla in their campaigns. There are no wire traps to deactivate, no bear-traps or even something as cool as Vanquish's boost mechanic... no anything that deviates from straight combat arenas with like 3 enemy types to kill.

The set pieces are just visual fluff to hide how bad and by the numbers the overall gamedesign really is.



I legitimately don't get how someone could say this. Seriously. Even something as low budget as Revelations 2 obliterates Uncharted in the combat and controls department. I played the Uncharted collection demo right after a long session of Rev2.

It was terrible.

Eh, in Gears the Lancer may take a lot of shots to kill but it has a ton of ammo. You can fire it non-stop for a while. Other weapons will end the encounters quicker, but with their own drawbacks.

you are right, to me gears of wars has compelling gameplay and it is better than uncharted
in that regard,,,,

but man the pacing and level design in uncharted specially 2 is top notch there is no dull moment is so fast it is exhilarating,,,,,

and level design some levels are brilliant among best in gaming>>>>

uc 3 vertical gunplay, ship enterior, abandoned ships involve two much swimming and verticality

uc 2 train level, nipal helicopter chase, himilayas,

and the director job is hollywood level man>>>>

but they need to adjust gameplay more :)
 

Melfice7

Member
I agree with most of the OP.

I've seen a couple of streams of the collection and it hurts to see how people play, as a pop up cover shooter, no wonder people complain playing like that
 
I played the demo recently on PS4 as my first ever experience of Uncharted. I thought it was truly awful. I even played it through to completion twice to make sure. Hated it.
 
It can have all the mechanics it wants in order to encourage movement, but it didn't actually succeed. If you give a player a gun they aren't going to assume it does more damage close up. They're going to try to use the gun as an effective ranged weapon... You know, like a gun.

This is also a massive problem I have with the series - as well as game feel.

There is not a single enemy that encourages you to leave cover. This notion that if you play it as a cover shooter you are playing it wrong is nonsense and infuriating.

If a game rewards you for playing a certain way and does not design it's encounters or enemy types in a way that forces you to move its a non-argument.

I do actually use the verticality of the environment but people who don't - and just as easily make it through the game - are not playing it wrong as some would have you believe.

If Naughty Dog's intention was to force players to move they failed.


Which feeds into my post about Gears of War encounter design, the composition of enemies within any one fight and the way the mechanics and weapons feed into the overall design philosophy. It takes a less is more approach and is all the better for it.

Gears of War 3 takes meaningful steps to force you to move through both enemy and encounter design.

Lambent enemies that can attack you over cover and force you to target specific limbs - don't kill them quick enough and they morph into worms that actively seek you out in cover and can only be attacked from behind.

Then you have enemies that are given diggers - explosive ammo that burrows under ground and seeks you out in cover - which forces you to move or die.

You're even given a new tool, the mantle kick, to encourage you to be more aggressive and move around the battlefield more.

Gears of War 3 is also designed around four-player co-op, so battlefields are big, packed with different angles of attack for people and have lots of power weapons, that specifically make the encounter easier, hidden away in parts of the map for players who are willing to move around.

In previous games, though more specifically the second one, they also do a great job of mixing up encounters with varied enemy types.

You'd have a Kantus, which can spawn in explosive tickers which charge you, supported by drones, grenadiers, boomers and so.

However, a Kantus is usually placed on higher ground, behind the others, and can revive fallen locust. So, you either target the Kantus first, get in close, or pick off enemies until you can find a gap in time to attack.

There's also other enemies like bloodmounts that are two locust rolled into one and can hop over cover. If you kill the mount from a distance the locust riding on the back will get up and continue the fight and vice versa.

Gears of War's biggest strength is its varied arsenal of weapons and monsters. However, cover placement is also very deliberate.

Even the original Gears, which is relatively simple, demonstrates some great level design, particularly in the second act as you make your way down dark streets, blowing up canisters for light, taking out lights above enemies to kill them and in some cases completely skip encounters.

Which is another thing, lots of fights can be completely skipped if you close up e-holes in time.

Best of all - most encounters are with a handful of locust. They are small bite-sized encounters which push you into the next area. Uncharted relies more heavily on the sheer number of the enemies you are fighting (Uncharted 2 less so).

I am not trying to argue Gears of War is an dynamic as Uncharted because it isn't but I think it's a lot better than people give it credit for.

It's good, simple design, enchanced by and built around its enemy types.

There's also some really interesting sections such as within the giant work in Gears of War 2 involving time-based movement and shooting on the move.

There's lots of specific encounters I could mention but I suppose that's the gist of it for me.

By the way, I will stress that I love Uncharted 2 and 3, just not as much as Gears.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
I liked Uncharted 2, but it sure wasn't because of the gunplay mechanics. At least it was better than the horrible first one, but that isn't saying much.
 

Malcolm9

Member
I played the demo recently on PS4 as my first ever experience of Uncharted. I thought it was truly awful. I even played it through to completion twice to make sure. Hated it.

To be honest they chose the wrong part of the game for the demo, it really doesn't show off the true strengths of the game.

In no way should the term awful be used to describe Uncharted.
 
I can only agree it has great level designd, but gameplay is just too bad.

A game with this aiming can't be the best TPS.

TLOU is a better tps.
 

SomTervo

Member
Endless waves of bullet sponge enemies doesn't qualify as great combat to me.

If I wasn't in the middle of pitching the EXACT OPPOSITE article to a major gaming website, I would post my reply here. As it stands, I feel I have to echo the first post: endless waves of bullet sponge enemies with poor weapon and enemy variation is not good game design.

It's one of the worst TPS series on the market.

1. If the enemies are bullet-sponges for you, you're playing it wrong. You can OHKO 85% of the enemies in the games using headshots. You just have to git gud.

2. The "endless waves" argument is only true of Uncharted 1. Indeed, that game has some incredibly flawed pacing, including many fights where you are stuck in one arena vs 3-5 waves of enemies.

If you play Uncharted 2 and 3, even on Crushing where the games are at their best, you will not experience this. The vast majority of the encounters are one-wave.

It is the best when you go into an area, and there is lots of places to hide and flank. The enemy tracks your last location, so you can flank them, climb shit, melee, run around the map.

It is a lot of great fun.

This is the essence of it, and it only comes into it's own on Crushing difficulty, where the enemy really put pressure on you.

This is also a massive problem I have with the series - as well as game feel.

There is not a single enemy that encourages you to leave cover. This notion that if you play it as a cover shooter you are playing it wrong is nonsense and infuriating.

What difficulty did you play on?

This might be another case where playing on Crushing will totally 180 your opinion on the game.

I thought Uncharted 2 was a good romp but a meh game until I put it on Crushing.

After doing so, I truly believe it's one of the greatest games of all time. The enemies do, constantly, aggressively force you to leave cover on Crushing difficulty.
 

Binabik15

Member
Run and gun, punch 'em Uncharted sprinkled with headshots is best Uncharted. I agree with OP.

I couldn't get myself to enjoy Gears 1, even though I really wanted to thanks to the almost Warhammer 40 meatheads and chainsaw rifles. Hell, I bought a 360 for it. I played all Uncharteds at least twice, with the first one in the top with 8 times or so.

Others can dislike it and I agree that it can be vastly improved in many areas but I'm happy with having a series that just gels with me. UC4 seems better than the previous ones and TLOU was great as well with A LOT of the things that might make UC even better incorporated, so I'm really thinking that this will be the best playing ND game for me so far.
 
Not enough people utilize hip fire imo. It dramatically changes the flow of some of the combat encounters when you use it properly.

These games are meant to be played aggressively, especially on Crushing where it's do or die.
 

SomTervo

Member
The demo for the Uncharted: ND Collection is notoriously a badly picked part of the game to showcase. The problem is that it doesn't give new-time players the real basics and they don't experience the amazing pacing that leads into that situation, so it has no impact. It's like making a trailer for a movie based entirely on the fourth-last scene. Nobody will get it.
 
The demo for the Uncharted: ND Collection is notoriously a badly picked part of the game to showcase. The problem is that it doesn't give new-time players the real basics and they don't experience the amazing pacing that leads into that situation, so it has no impact. It's like making a trailer for a movie based entirely on the fourth-last scene. Nobody will get it.

It really should have started with the Jeep chase and ended at the base of the Hotel.
 

T.O.P

Banned
Its a good TPS, but stuff like Gears and Max Payne 3 are just straight up better in the gameplay department.

Pretty much, It has decent shooting mechanics and that's it

Hell if someone said "i play Uncharted for the gunplay" i would be like laughing at their faces

Thankfully the game excels in other departments
 
Only Uncharted 2 deserves this kind of praise. 1 was alright but is extremely dated now. 3 had horrible combat encounter design, weird aiming controls, and favoured spectacle over level design. TLOU is better than any uncharted game.
 

NBtoaster

Member
The Uncharted 2 MP beta first made me realise how well the mechanics can come together. They fucked it up later but I enjoyed it much more than any other TPS
 
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