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[eso76]

Sometimes. But then you can have developers like Ubisoft last gen who created Chaos Theory and ported down.

Very few though. I can only think of Wreckless and CT.
In those cases though, it was mostly the graphics that needed to be scaled back and in any case both took a significant rework with the games ending up being very different from the original, something today's development costs probably won't allow.

But think of something like Morrowind last gen, i don't think by making the graphics worse they could have gotten the game to run on a system with much less ram or without an hdd as standard, it's core structure and mechanics probably couldn't be replicated.
Or a game heavily relying on physics or whatever.
Last gen devs could still afford to target the game to a single platform, the one which technical features would suit their vision.
Today they just can't, and next gen will probably be even worse.

Now, i'm sure we're not looking at differences signifcant enough for this to happen next gen, but this is just in theory.
Having to develop a game that will have to be ported to much less powerful systems (even with graphics being worse, but unaltered in it's core structure) would be a limiting factor for third parties and the more powerful console.
That's not even debateable imho.

 

[RaijinFY]

I honestly don't think that there is any logical reason that PS4 has to be more powerful than X720. PS1 was weaker than N64, PS2 was weaker than Xbox and both Playstations obliterated competition. Enter PS3 (which was more powerful than X360) and Sony loses a huge market share. Logically you could say that Sony was performing much better with a weaker console than with a stronger one.

Sony spoiled us with PS3, specially when it came to exclusives, however, PS3 was an expensive experiment in technology that Sony is not likely to repeat in next generation.

However, I have to say that I'm not pleased to hear that X720 is significantly more powerful than PS4 (I believe someone mentioned 30% difference, correct me if I'm wrong). This could very well translate into PS4 not being able to hold 1080p resolution for a longer period and could lead into another sub(Full)HD era, this time perhaps exclusively on PS4. Also, reports of developers once again leading on Durango could lead into another era of substandard ports (aka Call of Duty).

If (and it's a big IF) this turns out to be true, I will seriously question my decision of buying PS4. The only problem I have with owning Microsoft's console is the fact that my country is not officially supported on Xbox Live so that would lead to once again using various VPN solutions for a simple demo or DLC content purchase (this was the reason why I switched from X360 to PS3) combined with a fake UK account.

Sony on the other hand made an effort to bring PSN Store to my country, which is quite incredible considering that I live in Croatia where there is about 100 000+ PS3s (a very small number when compared to other countries). Microsoft on the other hand doesn't give a shit about my country citing "piracy reasons" for Live not being officially available. However, Live is available, for example, in Poland which boasts even higher piracy rate so more truthful response from Microsoft would be "you are too small for us to give a fuck".

Sorry for this small offtopic, back to subject. I would really like to hear some better news regarding improvement in PS4 hardware. I'm not sure pure APU design will cut it (even if 4xAPU via crossbar switch is used like Jeff suggested). If however Jeff's prediction does come true, and if GPU part of the APU matches for example A10 (5800) the whole system could stand at 4x384 shaders (1536 total) which would make graphical part (or at least unified shaders part) on par with Radeon 8850 which boasts almost 3.0 TFLOPS (realistically I will be happy if they match 2.5 TFLOPS). Let's hope that Sony beefs up final hardware to be on par with Durango or at least make difference in power no bigger than 5-10% (presuming of course that Durango being more powerful rumor is true).

You do realize that's because they have been released first right? So obviosuly, the one who released their machine first will have the least powerful console on the market compared to other getting out their machines later. Until GC -> Wii evolution, that was the rule. If Sony does something like that though, I think the negativity will at least match the $599 fiasco. I, personally, dont want to deal with the same kind of graphics, physics and co for another 6,7... maybe 8 years again.

 

[thuway]

Where is all this bullshit coming from that PS4 will be weaker than the 720? Nothing has been shown for either. Fuck is wrong with people here.

While we are on the topic of ProElite, he has claimed PS4 will be more powerful, but will have lesser RAM. This is SONY. The last thing Sony will do is release a significantly weaker platform. They are targeting the hardcore game front row and center.

 

[StevieP]

No one knows the actual specs so there is no need to worry or be disappointed
its more likely that both will be on par with one being better at certain things than the other and visa versa. just like this gen



if the rumoured cpu is correct even it will smoke the PS3's cell, the cell is a 6 year old CPU now.

Not in certain operations (ie floating point) where this gen's PPE was good. The general purpose performance will no doubt be better with amd's.

Where is all this bullshit coming from that PS4 will be weaker than the 720? Nothing has been shown for either. Fuck is wrong with people here.

While we are on the topic of ProElite, he has claimed PS4 will be more powerful, but will have lesser RAM. This is SONY. The last thing Sony will do is release a significantly weaker platform. They are targeting the hardcore game front row and center.

Only recent pro elite posts matter, btw. And even then you're going to be dealing with intentional obfuscation.

Btw, do you see any irony in your post? "Nothing has been shown for either console so why are people talking like Durango will have more power? Btw here's what Sony is going to do"

 

[Globox_82]

Not in certain operations (ie floating point) where this gen's PPE was good. The general purpose performance will no doubt be better with amd's.


Only recent pro elite posts matter, btw. And even then you're going to be dealing with intentional obfuscation.

Btw, do you see any irony in your post? "Nothing has been shown for either console so why are people talking like Durango will have more power? Btw here's what Sony is going to do"

what did he say that 720 is more powerful?

 

[BlackJace]

Where is all this bullshit coming from that PS4 will be weaker than the 720? Nothing has been shown for either. Fuck is wrong with people here.

While we are on the topic of ProElite, he has claimed PS4 will be more powerful, but will have lesser RAM. This is SONY. The last thing Sony will do is release a significantly weaker platform. They are targeting the hardcore game front row and center.

What's this?

 

[88random]

I can see PS4 being weaker than 720, but remember, it should last till 2019-2020, I doubt they'll make something underpowered. It must be a significant leap. 2TF at least.

 

[jeff_rigby]

My post on SemiAccurate has the sweetvar quotes

Also from SemiAccurate is a mistercteam post that compiled what may be a developer leak.

Now what is interesting lately one of polygon.com staff spill something about and especially about xbox.next, what interesting is he is proven to be from polygon.com. so at least we can not BS his info easily. What is most interesting is polygon.com is actually some sort of theverge.com gaming hub http://www.theverge.com/about-polygon

Ok now let we see what Aegis (polygon) said ,but remember sometimes the wording are not clear enough :

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44885833&postcount=1229

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44885833&postcount=1229

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44959235&postcount=332

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44990645&postcount=668

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45000491&postcount=694

My take;

1) Jaguar is used for power efficiency especially the always on server or HDMI pass-thru or RVU support for XTV in both consoles.
2) CPU talk = GPGPU and Jaguar CPUs and wide IO memory interface give a massive performance boost over the same design in PC or notebook with energy savings also. In both consoles

Missing is the comment that Durango will have a CPU clock of 1.6 ghz which supports Jaguar in Durango.

The core of both consoles will likely be identical.

Since Acert has had some "wild" speculation, I'll go ahead and add some of my own wild speculation from a week or two ago on GAF. It's giving support to the notion of PS4 and Xbox 3 using the same or similar SoC.

Here is a C&P of the summary I made.

A while back a poster named sweetvar26 made some posts saying that both MS and Sony were using Jaguar (CPU) cores in their next consoles and the codenames for the chips were Kryptos and Thebe (Forbes article said it's Thebes) respectively. The mentioning of MS came not too long after I had heard they switched to AMD for their CPU. Also although recently posted on GAF, this post on the EVGA board came out a few weeks ago saying MS and Sony would be using the same SoC. Then there was the article about MS and Sony working together in some fashion as the author was unable to determine exactly what the info he received meant. A poster on IGN posed the idea that the MS/Sony article didn't deal with them making one console together, but may deal with standardizing their hardware for their next consoles. That lead me back to thinking about the EVGA post. Going back to the codenames, while I had looked up both Thebe and Thebes (the latter being a city in Egypt and Greece), jeff_rigby said this:

Hidden in Kryptos, the sculpture at CIA Langly is the Howard Carter account of the King Tut discovery in Thebe's Egypt.
Of which I pointed out that the Forbes article spelled it Thebes with an "s" which is how Thebes, Egypt is spelled. Also as I mentioned Thebes is a city in Greece and Kryptos supposedly means "hidden" in Greek.

So connecting those dots was speculation on our part. But if Kryptos and Thebes are their codenames, it's rather hard to see it as just a coincidence.

Our speculation was that hidden (Kryptos) in the Durango SoC is the same Thebes (Sony SoC) core. So gaming performance should be the same but Microsoft may add more media server features to their console while Sony relies on Nanse and their other CE platforms.

Recently another sweetvar comment had the PS4 done first, scheduled to be done first and now AMD is concentrating on Durango. IF Thebe is the core of both then the pure Thebe (Sony) SoC would come first then Durango which has Thebe hidden inside.

Are Microsoft and Sony working together?

 

[Eideka]

So, 16 cores ?

Me gusta.

 

[hodgy100]

Not in certain operations (ie floating point) where this gen's PPE was good. The general purpose performance will no doubt be better with amd's.

and that's where GPGPU comes in a modern graphics card is even better at those types of operation.

 

[Binabik15]

Content can be janked for NDA reasons even if it's outdated. Just saying.

Nice to see that Sony is doomed even before the PS4 is announced, though.

 

[Durante]

16 Jaguar cores would be awesome, even at 1.6GHz. Much harder to use than a more PC-like architecture though, but also more interesting.

if the rumoured cpu is correct even it will smoke the PS3's cell, the cell is a 6 year old CPU now.

It won't "smoke" the Cell in every aspect. Almost certainly not in FP SIMD performance.

 

[DieH@rd]

AMD is preparing dual GPU card for 8xxx series [they skipped 7xxx]. 8990 will have total bandwith of 600GB/s and single precision preformance of 10.2 TFLOPS.
http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-HD-8990-Rumored-2013-Launch

I really want 8870...

 

[RoboPlato]

Why are the sweetvar posts coming back up again? They were fairly dated even when they came out (info was from 2010, I believe). Even if it was great news things have changed so much that they may not have any weight at all. 2010 there were many rumors of a 2012 release for next gen so those posts may have been in regard to that target.

 

[Reiko]

Why are the sweetvar posts coming back up again? They were fairly dated even when they came out (info was from 2010, I believe). Even if it was great news things have changed so much that they may not have any weight at all. 2010 there were many rumors of a 2012 release for next gen so those posts may have been in regard to that target.

They were deleted.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Why are the sweetvar posts coming back up again? They were fairly dated even when they came out (info was from 2010, I believe). Even if it was great news things have changed so much that they may not have any weight at all. 2010 there were many rumors of a 2012 release for next gen so those posts may have been in regard to that target.

They came up because it's now pretty much confirmed that both have the same Jaguar CPU packages as Sweetvar first said. That supports his comments for the first time. (16 CPUs at 1.6ghz can only be Jaguar if an all AMD APU) When you add to that that there has to be power efficiency for always on it leaves no other choice for both consoles. 1.6 ghz just leaked for Durango, 16 threads leaked months ago.

When we now look back to find sweetvar's comments we find that they were deleted. bgassassin and I tried to confirm Jaguar in any way possible and used his Thebe and Kryptos comment to find Forbes commenting on the Sony Thebes project and the Kryptos CIA statue Thebes tie-in. At the time we said it could be a troll but the tie-ins had implications if true. Those tie-ins now have more support because the core has been proved.

 

[Risk Breaker]

I would like to hear the opinion from someone with experience in programming of this wild wild speculation:

If Sony were to use 4 A10-5800k (or something equivalent, it doesn't matter for this likely stupid example) at 3 GHz or less to reduce TDP per "package" to 50W or less, for a max TDP of less than 200W reaching about 3 TFLOPS (something less if they reduce the frequency) according to the A10 official spec sheet...

How would programming be for something with 16 Jaguar cores AND 4 "separate" 7660D GPUs? Would it be an unoptimized nightmare like I think it would be?

I ask because someone in a few posts above me said something about Sony maybe using 4 APUs via crossbar so I would like to know how feasible would that be, compared to, say, using 16 separate Jaguar cores + an 8850 on the same die (?). Please excuse my ignorance

AMD is preparing dual GPU card for 8xxx series [they skipped 7xxx]. 8990 will have total bandwith of 600GB/s and single precision preformance of 10.2 TFLOPS.
http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-HD-8990-Rumored-2013-Launch

I really want 8870...

Holy damn, 10 TFLOPS! Will the TDP reach 500W or something?

 

[Plinko]

My post on SemiAccurate has the sweetvar quotes

Also from SemiAccurate is a mistercteam post that compiled what may be a developer leak.



My take;

1) Jaguar is used for power efficiency especially the always on server or HDMI pass-thru or RVU support for XTV in both consoles.
2) CPU talk = GPGPU and Jaguar CPUs and wide IO memory interface give a massive performance boost over the same design in PC or notebook with energy savings also. In both consoles

Missing is the comment that Durango will have a CPU clock of 1.6 ghz which supports Jaguar in Durango.

The core of both consoles will likely be identical.

Our speculation was that hidden (Kryptos) in the Durango SoC is the same Thebes (Sony SoC) core. So gaming performance should be the same but Microsoft may add more media server features to their console while Sony relies on Nanse and their other CE platforms.

Recently another sweetvar comment had the PS4 done first, scheduled to be done first and now AMD is concentrating on Durango. IF Thebe is the core of both then the pure Thebe (Sony) SoC would come first then Durango which has Thebe hidden inside.

Are Microsoft and Sony working together?

Aren't you quoting bgassassin, who many people on this board have been bashing recently for being "wrong" about the Wii U internals?

 

[deadlast]

They came up because it's now pretty much confirmed that both have the same Jaguar CPU packages as Sweetvar first said. That supports his comments for the first time. (16 CPUs at 1.6ghz can only be Jaguar if an all AMD APU) When you add to that that there has to be power efficiency for always on it leaves no other choice for both consoles. 1.6 ghz just leaked for Durango, 16 threads leaked months ago.

When we now look back to find sweetvar's comments we find that they were deleted.

This article talks about the Jaguar. Link It might just be relevant.

 

[DieH@rd]

Holy damn, 10 TFLOPS! Will the TDP reach 500W or something?

Card itself will use ~375W.

 

[RoboPlato]

They were deleted.

They came up because it's now pretty much confirmed that both have the same Jaguar CPU packages as Sweetvar first said. That supports his comments for the first time. (16 CPUs at 1.6ghz can only be Jaguar if an all AMD APU) When you add to that that there has to be power efficiency for always on it leaves no other choice for both consoles. 1.6 ghz just leaked for Durango, 16 threads leaked months ago.

When we now look back to find sweetvar's comments we find that they were deleted.

Ah, OK. Maybe he was trying to protect his friend or something but that likely means that info was fairly legit, at least at that time. I still think things have changed since then. Not time for doom and gloom just yet.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Card itself will use ~375W.

Impressive. I guess Sony could commit sudoku using this at half frequency with 4 Jaguar cores at 1GHz and 1GB of DDR3 only to show off their 4+ TFLOPS figures. Also release at $700.

Sorry for the silly OT.

 

[DieH@rd]

375W for 10.2TFLOPS, that means that 1TFLOP is at ~37-40W range.

If console manufacturers use THE BEST POSSIBLE tech that AMD has to offer, they can put ~120W into GPU section for ~3 TFLOPS, 30W for CPU and ~20 for rest of the system.

/want

 

[thuway]

375W for 10.2TFLOPS, that means that 1TFLOP is at ~37-40W range.

If console manufacturers use THE BEST POSSIBLE tech that AMD has to offer, they can put ~120W into GPU section for ~3 TFLOPS, 30W for CPU and ~20 for rest of the system.

/want

:-O. I've been saying this all along .

 

[phosphor112]

375W for 10.2TFLOPS, that means that 1TFLOP is at ~37-40W range.

If console manufacturers use THE BEST POSSIBLE tech that AMD has to offer, they can put ~120W into GPU section for ~3 TFLOPS, 30W for CPU and ~20 for rest of the system.

/want

That would be crazy.

 

[Globox_82]

you can forget 10tflops.

 

[i-Lo]

you can forget 10tflops.

This just makes you realize how limited the next gen consoles are going to be from the start. *sigh*

Perhaps, Wii U did the right thing.... hmmm ...? Who knows...

Meh, I just hope they can pull over 2TF out of their engineering asses. At the end of the day, things that'll matter are:

• How much better the PS4 is compared to current gen?
• How deficient it is compared to the competitor and therefore its effects on third party ports?

 

[mrklaw]

you can forget 10tflops.

they weren't suggesting that, they were using the power draw to extrapolate what could be done with a lower wattage.

 

[mrklaw]

This just makes you realize how limited the next gen consoles are going to be from the start. *sigh*

Perhaps, Wii U did the right thing.... hmmm ...? Who knows...

Meh, I just hope they can pull over 2TF out of their engineering asses. At the end of the day, things that'll matter are:

• How much better the PS4 is compared to current gen?
• How deficient it is compared to the competitor and therefore its effects on third party ports?

nah. That 10tf is an extreme card, and buyers of those cards will be looking to run in 3D, or 120Hz, or multiple monitors, or 2K+ resolutions or a combination of those. Plus gobs of AA or downsampling.

A fixed resolution target around 1080p/30 would need nowhere near that amount to be equivalent in quality.

 

[Globox_82]

This just makes you realize how limited the next gen consoles are going to be from the start. *sigh*

Perhaps, Wii U did the right thing.... hmmm ...? Who knows...

Meh, I just hope they can pull over 2TF out of their engineering asses. At the end of the day, things that'll matter are:

• How much better the PS4 is compared to current gen?
• How deficient it is compared to the competitor and therefore its effects on third party ports?

WiiU is what? around 0.4 tflops like PS3&360? I bet you will get your 3.5 - 4.0 tflops from PS4-720. But 10tflops? No way. They want to make money not end up like Sega, sony in particular.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

That would be crazy.

Such a shame ken kutagari isn't incharge of playstation no more.

Otherwise we could totally get this... AND PS3 + PS2 Hardware on the motherboard as well!

 

[Durante]

Ah, OK. Maybe he was trying to protect his friend or something but that likely means that info was fairly legit, at least at that time. I still think things have changed since then. Not time for doom and gloom just yet.

Doom and gloom? I wouldn't call 16 cores -- even 16 relatively simple cores -- "doom and gloom" at all. More like "best case scenario".

WiiU is what? around 0.4 tflops like PS3&360? I bet you will get your 3.5 - 4.0 tflops from PS4-720. But 10tflops? No way. They want to make money not end up like Sega, sony in particular.

I don't think 4 TFlops is on the cards for PS4 or 720.

 

[phosphor112]

you can forget 10tflops.

No one is saying we'll get 10tflops lol.

 

[Sid]

WiiU is what? around 0.4 tflops like PS3&360? I bet you will get your 3.5 - 4.0 tflops from PS4-720. But 10tflops? No way. They want to make money not end up like Sega, sony in particular.

I think it will be 2.5 TF,overall the console should far surpass the U as expected.

 

[amstradcpc]

I wouldn´t dismiss yet the possibility of an unique future console. All these rumours about similar apus, microsoft-sony domain, non breaking ndas when it is only 7 months for E3,etc... are very strange.

 

[Globox_82]

Doom and gloom? I wouldn't call 16 cores -- even 16 relatively simple cores -- "doom and gloom" at all. More like "best case scenario".

I don't think 4 TFlops is on the cards for PS4 or 720.

we shall see....

 

[i-Lo]

nah. That 10tf is an extreme card, and buyers of those cards will be looking to run in 3D, or 120Hz, or multiple monitors, or 2K+ resolutions or a combination of those. Plus gobs of AA or downsampling.

A fixed resolution target around 1080p/30 would need nowhere near that amount to be equivalent in quality.

For 2013, it shows, what's technologically possible and what is economically feasible, i.e. around 1/5th of the technological prowess for the reasonable price. Perhaps we can dream of a 10tf card 6 years 7 years down the line in the next-next generation of consoles (unless remote play becomes big enough that there's no next gen hardware) when desktop GPUs would be producing somewhere in the neighbourhood of 40-50.

 

[thehypocrite]

Such a shame ken kutagari isn't incharge of playstation no more.

Otherwise we could totally get this... AND PS3 + PS2 Hardware on the motherboard as well!

If crazy ken were still in charge, Sony would be out the PlayStation business.


Besides is a fact that all desktop computer technology are overshooting the needs of the majority of users.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

They'd be out of business but the vita and PS4 would be glorious!

 

[-COOLIO-]

This just makes you realize how limited the next gen consoles are going to be from the start. *sigh*

Perhaps, Wii U did the right thing.... hmmm ...? Who knows...

Meh, I just hope they can pull over 2TF out of their engineering asses. At the end of the day, things that'll matter are:

• How much better the PS4 is compared to current gen?
• How deficient it is compared to the competitor and therefore its effects on third party ports?

10 x jumps are par for the next gen course which is what 3 tflops would be.

 

[i-Lo]

10 x jumps are par for the next gen course which is what 3 tflops would be.

And the oldest of the rumours suggest that the GPU will be producing around 1.8TF which is mathematically 1.2TF short of that target. Or are you talking about entire system's output?

 

[ekim]

nah. That 10tf is an extreme card, and buyers of those cards will be looking to run in 3D, or 120Hz, or multiple monitors, or 2K+ resolutions or a combination of those. Plus gobs of AA or downsampling.

A fixed resolution target around 1080p/30 would need nowhere near that amount to be equivalent in quality.

But if they want a 20 year life cycle they have to gear up to at least 10tflops

 

[-COOLIO-]

And the oldest of the rumours suggest that the GPU is producing around 1.8TF which is mathematically 1.2TF short of that target. Or are you talking about entire system's output?

I was responding to the anything short of 10 tflops would be underpowered idea.

 

[i-Lo]

I was responding to the anything short of 10 tflops would be underpowered comment.

Ah, it'll be mathematically underpowered but the question becomes about relevance. As time goes on, that 10tf number will look more and more relevant.

But yea, no one here in their right might should expect a GPU that's capable a double digit tf figure let alone anything over ~2.0TF is an improbability.

 

[thehypocrite]

They'd be out of business but the vita and PS4 would be glorious!

Glorious paperweight without games for them.

 

[gofreak]

10 x jumps are par for the next gen course which is what 3 tflops would be.

I still think the 'best bet' rumour for PS4 is this one, but updated to incorporate the more recent rumours about likely new CPU and RAM scenarios.

i.e. that Sony is targeting circa 10x RSX (2Tflop, better efficiency etc) and circa 10x Cell PPU on the CPU (and, perhaps more recently, circa 10x the RAM if this thread's rumour is correct)

I think that's realistic and reasonable.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I wouldn´t dismiss yet the possibility of an unique future console. All these rumours about similar apus, microsoft-sony domain, non breaking ndas when it is only 7 months for E3,etc... are very strange.

This is actually the least speculative. AMD is making both consoles with both now known to be using the same CPUs. Optimum as far as TDP is going to be the same = same SoC core. With both using the same monolithic core silicon they share design and setup costs. What's added to that core on the MCM transposer can be different.

You think that if Sony or Microsoft get a wide IO memory interface that the other won't get the same. Producing two different state of the art designs at the same time is cost prohibitive, producing a common design results in many economy of scale savings in everything from memory to WiFi radios.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40467165&postcount=3590

 

[paskowitz]

IMO this is the winning combo:

-A maximum of 10% higher price (IE <$50 difference) <$450
-No more than 15% power deficit from NextBox
-Easy, if not the easiest, to develop for
-Free MP
-Compelling subscription service at a reasonable price (PS++Cloud)
-Some form of mobile/tablet integration (At least on the media level)
-Any form of anti-used game or DRM HAS to be unobtrusive and balanced

I honestly believe next gen will be won on the software/service level.

To that end, Google may want to use the PS4 has a trojan horse for a reboot of their TV initiative (kind of like PS3 and blu ray). Beyond that Sony has to make Gakai work. PS1, PS2, PS3 backlog available on a tablet with a bluetooth connected DS4 or a Vita? Yes please. This would be a huge blow to Smartglass as it only offers "game experiences/add ons".

 

[mrklaw]

For 2013, it shows, what's technologically possible and what is economically feasible, i.e. around 1/5th of the technological prowess for the reasonable price. Perhaps we can dream of a 10tf card 6 years 7 years down the line in the next-next generation of consoles (unless remote play becomes big enough that there's no next gen hardware) when desktop GPUs would be producing somewhere in the neighbourhood of 40-50.

surely at some point desktop GPUs will hit limits on efficiency, and a brick wall on TDP (eg they can't go above 500W) so performance may plateau? like tablets will hit a similar wall at TDPs around 10W

 

[mrklaw]

I still think the 'best bet' rumour for PS4 is this one, but updated to incorporate the more recent rumours about likely new CPU and RAM scenarios.

i.e. that Sony is targeting circa 10x RSX (2Tflop, better efficiency etc) and circa 10x Cell PPU on the CPU (and, perhaps more recently, circa 10x the RAM if this thread's rumour is correct)

I think that's realistic and reasonable.

would 10x PPU be enough? 10x CELL is one thing, but 10x just the PPU isn't that great is it?