Support NeoGAF

[Mario007]

OT, but Sony need to add a mic array into the controller plus a stereo / 5.1 headphone plug.

I think PS Eye 2 is being touted as being included with all the SKUs and since PS Eye can easily recognise your voice for Singstar, I'd say it wouldn't have much trouble picking up your voice for multiplayer games.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Wow, semiaccurate just got walled behind a malware warning webpage by google. Didn't see this issue before.

Can you go into details of what was said about Globalfoundaries?

It was just a one liner in reply to another poster TBH.

the foundry they are talking about is FAR from full, now or in 2013

Reading through the bad translation of the PC Watch article it sounds like much older information. The article also has this weird line in it (even taking into account the translation)

Nintendo will release a "Wii U" next-generation game consoles, from 2014 (2013) next year

I don't know what to make of that!

 

[kikonawa]

Looks like nintendo invented timetravel

 

[AlStrong]

Just been browsing SemiAccurate forums. According to Charlie the PC Watch article is wrong about the chip foundry being full.

Why would they say it if it isn't true?

Might depend on context. Fabs 1 & 8 are going to be ramping up wafer output at least until the end of 2013, so no they're not at full capacity.

Also, AMD did recently reduce wafer orders for the coming months/year*, so there would potentially be underutilization of current fab output capability if there are no other contracts to fill the void.

edit:

*brainfart: cancelled orders for 32nm orders for Q4 2012, so nevermind.

 

[phosphor112]

A bit off topic, but I have the same problem while playing Riddick which has an ultra wide FoV on console. It makes me nauseous after about 10-15 minutes of play sessions. I assume this thing goes both ways.

Indeed it does. Play it on a monitor, if possible. So much easier that way, or a small old CRT up close.

 

[RoboPlato]

I've been into game design for years. Always used to wonder why HL1 would make me want to vomit every single organ out. It's because the default FOV was super low on PC. The more you know!

I do hope we get a bit of an FoV boost next gen. I know that there are considerations that go into the FoV on consoles but they've been a little too tight for me lately. Rage and Dishonored were pretty perfect for the distance I sit from my TV.

 

[phosphor112]

I do hope we get a bit of an FoV boost next gen. I know that there are considerations that go into the FoV on consoles but they've been a little too tight for me lately. Rage and Dishonored were pretty perfect for the distance I sit from my TV.

With bigger TV's the FOV will have to increase. 55 might have been ok on for BF3 on a 42 inch sitting 6-8ft away, but on bigger TV's at that distance, it HAS to be increased, or more and more players will play less and less because they will feel sick.

 

[RoboPlato]

With bigger TV's the FOV will have to increase. 55 might have been ok on for BF3 on a 42 inch sitting 6-8ft away, but on bigger TV's at that distance, it HAS to be increased, or more and more players will play less and less because they will feel sick.

A lot of games lately have been reducing farther due to performance concerns on top of the TV size concerns. I'd just like to see FoVs in the 70-80 range instead of the mid 50s.

 

[pharmboy044]

Why do I keep hearing gaming media who I consider fairly smart say that the PS4 will use Gaikai for it's backwards compatibility issue?
Is this even possible or are they all just regurgitating the same thing that they've "heard" from one another?

 

[RoboPlato]

Why do I keep hearing gaming media who I consider fairly smart say that the PS4 will use Gaikai for it's backwards compatibility issue?
Is this even possible or are they all just regurgitating the same thing that they've "heard" from one another?

It makes a lot of sense. Cell R&D stopped a long time ago and was a burden on third parties so the odds of Sony going with it again are slim to none. Nothing else has come of the Gaikai deal yet and it would make the complete purchase of the company make more sense.

 

[pharmboy044]

It makes a lot of sense. Cell R&D stopped a long time ago and was a burden on third parties so the odds of Sony going with it again are slim to none. Nothing else has come of the Gaikai deal yet and it would make the complete purchase of the company make more sense.

I understand the purchase makes perfect sense but is it doable in such a large scale. I only ask because I read in the OnLive thread that they needed one server for each client to have this work. Now if Gaikai functions differently then I understand but if not, I don't see Sony using Gaikai for that.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

I understand the purchase makes perfect sense but is it doable in such a large scale. I only ask because I read in the OnLive thread that they needed one server for each client to have this work. Now if Gaikai functions differently then I understand but if not, I don't see Sony using Gaikai for that.

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18832&Itemid=8
they partnered with gaikai on this new technology too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U0mWj1TLFs

 

[Lord Error]

I understand the purchase makes perfect sense but is it doable in such a large scale. I only ask because I read in the OnLive thread that they needed one server for each client to have this work. Now if Gaikai functions differently then I understand but if not, I don't see Sony using Gaikai for that.

Yeah, Gaikai is virtualized, it is much better for that reason alone.

 

[androvsky]

I understand the purchase makes perfect sense but is it doable in such a large scale. I only ask because I read in the OnLive thread that they needed one server for each client to have this work. Now if Gaikai functions differently then I understand but if not, I don't see Sony using Gaikai for that.

If I recall correctly, OnLive needed one server for each client, in contrast to Gaikai. Now the funny thing is if you look at the costs per server, figuring they could handle two ps3-era games at most, it'd be cheaper to just produce a special rackmount PS3 with network storage for everything (no blu-ray, no HDD). You'd end up with one user on a $100 server vs. two users on a $600+ server.

The other problem with using PCs for streaming PS3 games is you still have to figure out how to run the games on them. If standard PCs could run PS3 games easily, we'd have BC in the PS4 and all this would be academic.

Of course, the problem with using PS3s is that it's harder to integrate the video encoding software, so they'd either need dongles that plug into the HDMI ports, a special chip on the board, or possibly just enough extra memory so they can run a fancier remote play (8 spu Cell maybe?). And they'll also lose the advantage of reducing lag by running at a high frame rate.

 

[pharmboy044]

Thanks guys. It sounds like they have functionality to make this work. Really looking forward to next year.

 

[Grim1ock]

Why do I keep hearing gaming media who I consider fairly smart say that the PS4 will use Gaikai for it's backwards compatibility issue?
Is this even possible or are they all just regurgitating the same thing that they've "heard" from one another?

Gaikai is a 300 million dollar waste of investment for sony. Whose brilliant idea was it to buy a streaming company when network capacity hasn't even reached the capacity to output decent gaming performance across the board?

The gaming media is largely ignorant about tech performance in general. To give you an example. In gran turismo 5 when you are in a full room wih 16 players the smooth gameplay is inherently dependent on the host's bandwidth. Anything too woeful and disconnections will ensue.

There is a reason why onlive went belly up. And yet Gaikais going to provide ps3 BC? You couldnt make it up. The only way BC for ps3 games both digital and physical media to be enabled is to have the cell, rsx and the XDR in the system.

 

[Globox_82]

Gaikai is a 300 dollar waste of investment for sony. Whose brilliant idea was it to buy a streaming company when network capacity hasn't even reached the capacity to output decent gaming performance across the board?

The gaming media is largely ignorant about tech performance in general. To give you an example. In gran turismo 5 when you are in a full room wih 16 players the smooth gameplay is inherently dependent on the host's bandwidth. Anything too woeful and disconnections will ensue.

There is a reason why onlive went belly up. And yet Gaikais going to provide ps3 BC. You couldn make it up

they wish it was that cheap...

 

[thuway]

Gaikai is a 300 million dollar waste of investment for sony. Whose brilliant idea was it to buy a streaming company when network capacity hasn't even reached the capacity to output decent gaming performance across the board?

The gaming media is largely ignorant about tech performance in general. To give you an example. In gran turismo 5 when you are in a full room wih 16 players the smooth gameplay is inherently dependent on the host's bandwidth. Anything too woeful and disconnections will ensue.

There is a reason why onlive went belly up. And yet Gaikais going to provide ps3 BC? You couldnt make it up. The only way BC for ps3 games both digital and physical media to be enabled is to have the cell, rsx and the XDR in the system.

OnLive went belly up because it had a ton of shitty factors associated with it. I never even bothered to look into it because of how expensive the whole damn thing was. Gaikai will probably tie straight into PlayStation Plus, and Sony will probably allow us to stream games we already own.

 

[Karak]

Gaikai is a 300 million dollar waste of investment for sony. Whose brilliant idea was it to buy a streaming company when network capacity hasn't even reached the capacity to output decent gaming performance across the board?

The gaming media is largely ignorant about tech performance in general. To give you an example. In gran turismo 5 when you are in a full room wih 16 players the smooth gameplay is inherently dependent on the host's bandwidth. Anything too woeful and disconnections will ensue.

There is a reason why onlive went belly up. And yet Gaikais going to provide ps3 BC? You couldnt make it up. The only way BC for ps3 games both digital and physical media to be enabled is to have the cell, rsx and the XDR in the system.

They may just use it as a bullet point. BC using streaming tech. Obviously anyone who is accustomed to the original games, or games in general is going to notice an issue instantly but they can always promise it will get better. Until the day that BC isn't as important as time goes by. As a company decision to offset hardware BC it actually makes sense. The 3 inherent flaws for streaming are still present, probably another 3-4 years out, and of course you are now adding the additional issue of "familiarity with the original title"

As a technological item it doesn't make sense at all. But we have all noticed that promises of future improvements DOES work on many consumers, regardless of the actual outcome.

 

[seventynine]

Port/run PSN through Gaikai along with a new version of Home, one that doesn't need to be downloaded and could become a more seamless, useful experience. Live streaming of online games as well cross game chat channels, storage of gameplay video capture to call upon and render on the console if you desire.

Some interesting possibilities.

 

[i-Lo]

Gaikai is a 300 million dollar waste of investment for sony. Whose brilliant idea was it to buy a streaming company when network capacity hasn't even reached the capacity to output decent gaming performance across the board?

The gaming media is largely ignorant about tech performance in general. To give you an example. In gran turismo 5 when you are in a full room wih 16 players the smooth gameplay is inherently dependent on the host's bandwidth. Anything too woeful and disconnections will ensue.

There is a reason why onlive went belly up. And yet Gaikais going to provide ps3 BC? You couldnt make it up. The only way BC for ps3 games both digital and physical media to be enabled is to have the cell, rsx and the XDR in the system.

Yea... no. People can become very short sighted restraining Gakai's functionality to BC only. It is one future proof investment that is capable of yielding massive dividends if circumstances and proper nurturing by Sony allows for it.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I lol'd at Gaikai being a waste of money. It's called a strategic investment for the future.

 

[phosphor112]

If I recall correctly, OnLive needed one server for each client, in contrast to Gaikai. Now the funny thing is if you look at the costs per server, figuring they could handle two ps3-era games at most, it'd be cheaper to just produce a special rackmount PS3 with network storage for everything (no blu-ray, no HDD). You'd end up with one user on a $100 server vs. two users on a $600+ server.

The other problem with using PCs for streaming PS3 games is you still have to figure out how to run the games on them. If standard PCs could run PS3 games easily, we'd have BC in the PS4 and all this would be academic.

Of course, the problem with using PS3s is that it's harder to integrate the video encoding software, so they'd either need dongles that plug into the HDMI ports, a special chip on the board, or possibly just enough extra memory so they can run a fancier remote play (8 spu Cell maybe?). And they'll also lose the advantage of reducing lag by running at a high frame rate.

This is why I never considered Sony using Gaikai for PS3 BC. It NEVER made sense to me.

 

[paskowitz]

I wonder if Gakai could utilize IBM's latest hybrid nanophotonic chip.

 

[TEXAN]

It's a shame none of the next gen consoles shall do hardware based ray tracing like Sega's next generation arcade board.

http://model4.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/caustic-series2-ray-tracing-accelerator-pc-boards/

 

[Ashes]

1495... I honestly thought he said 14.95.

 

[mrklaw]

PC emulation of Ps3 is likely complicated though. Maybe they'll have racks of PS3 boards running games, with dedicated video encoders on the outputs.

Normally I'd say that it wouldn't scale - it's the classic onlive problem too - difficult to virtualise multiple gaming capable PCs onto one PC. But it may be the case that BC is a case of 'eyes bigger than your belly' - something that lots of people make noise about, but not many people actually act on - so might not need huge numbers of PS3s running

 

[Massa]

PC emulation of Ps3 is likely complicated though. Maybe they'll have racks of PS3 boards running games, with dedicated video encoders on the outputs.

Normally I'd say that it wouldn't scale - it's the classic onlive problem too - difficult to virtualise multiple gaming capable PCs onto one PC. But it may be the case that BC is a case of 'eyes bigger than your belly' - something that lots of people make noise about, but not many people actually act on - so might not need huge numbers of PS3s running

They don't need to use PCs. They bought Gaikai's tech, they can easily port it to a PS3-like server.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

The Gakai investment was about as strategic as flushing those millions down the nearest toilet.

 

[MARNEY]

Looks like gaikai wouldn't really need one ps3 server side for each user..

A number of services such as Sony’s Gaikai, G-Cluster, OnLive, Playcast, and Ubitus already promise to replace expensive consoles with services that stream games from powerful servers.
And in May Nvidia Chief Executive Jen-Hsun Huang those showed off a new technology Nvidia calls ‘GeForce GRID,’ that will allow companies offering hosted gaming services on their servers to support more gamers using less hardware.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briancaulfield/2012/07/24/key-console-player-leaves-amd-for-nvidia/

 

[phosphor112]

They don't need to use PCs. They bought Gaikai's tech, they can easily port it to a PS3-like server.

And they achieve that how?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briancaulfield/2012/07/24/key-console-player-leaves-amd-for-nvidia/

Why use nVidia? Just to get BC? Would they not want to be able to stream PS4 games...which are AMD.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

It's a shame none of the next gen consoles shall do hardware based ray tracing like Sega's next generation arcade board.

http://model4.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/caustic-series2-ray-tracing-accelerator-pc-boards/

Sega still makes arcade boards? O_O

 

[BlockheadBrown]

The number of armchair "experts" around here regarding Gaikai is simply amazing. It'll be interesting to see what Sony's intentions are for the Gaikai purchase. Time will tell soon enough.

 

[RoboPlato]

I've always thought that the Gaikai used for BC with some kind of PS+ subscription incentive could be pretty damn awesome.

 

[KageMaru]

Sega still makes arcade boards? O_O

They do, but they dropped the "Model" line of arcade boards over a decade ago with no signs of them returning to it. Texan has a history of fabricating Sega related news, so I would ignore that link.

 

[phosphor112]

The number of armchair "experts" around here regarding Gaikai is simply amazing. It'll be interesting to see what Sony's intentions are for the Gaikai purchase. Time will tell soon enough.

I'm not going to claim to be an expert, but I don't see Sony using nVidia GRID just to emulate the defunct RSX (which, even going with nVidia, will be difficult to do). Going with GRID will remove any ability to emulate the AMD rendered games on PS4. Do people expect them to retool their servers EVERY gen?

I'm not an expert, I just don't see Sony making completely stupid decisions.

 

[MARNEY]

And they achieve that how?



Why use nVidia? Just to get BC? Would they not want to be able to stream PS4 games...which are AMD.

Idk, I'm not really too tech savy, but seems nvidia has the tech, & the guy working there now is at least familiar with next gen capabilities & hardware. I guess my point was as the tech improves for cloud gaming, less hardware would be needed server side to accommodate gamers interested in the service. Some commented that gaikai would need a ps3 server side for each user, making gaikai not very cost effective, but the reality seems to indicate otherwise...

edit: couldn't they use different servers for ps3 & ps4 games? not sure why you'd want to stream ps4 games on a ps4...

 

[Reiko]

They do, but they dropped the "Model" line of arcade boards over a decade ago with no signs of them returning to it. Texan has a history of fabricating Sega related news, so I would ignore that link.

We need some Model 4 in our veins.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Come on now guys, we have absolutely no idea what projects Gaikai was working on at the time of the purchase. They could have pitched some ideas that sony found impressive and fits in with their future plans.

Until we see what they do with it, we can't just guess if it's a sound investment or not.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I lol'd at Gaikai being a waste of money. It's called a strategic investment for the future.

Nah. Obviously should have spent that money bringing back Ken Kutaragi.

 

[Router]

Come on now guys, we have absolutely no idea what projects Gaikai was working on at the time of the purchase. They could have pitched some ideas that sony found impressive and fits in with their future plans.

Until we see what they do with it, we can't just guess if it's a sound investment or not.

Backwards compatibility via cloud.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Nah. Obviously should have spent that money bringing back Ken Kutaragi.

he's too busy making evangelion rss readers.

 

[Exentryk]

So, who's currently rumored to be more powerful? Nextbox or PS4?

 

[lettermassing]

man, orbis is such an awful name.

 

[jaosobno]

man, orbis is such an awful name.

It's a codename. And it's no better than Durango.

EDIT: looks like we'll be getting some "pew pew pew" action on PS4 (fig. 7). Sony patented depth tracking camera:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20120319950.pdf

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It's a codename. And it's no better than Durango.

EDIT: looks like we'll be getting some "pew pew pew" action on PS4:

http://www.************************...pth-sensing-camera-use-your-fingers-as-a-gun/

Link isn't working

 

[itsgreen]

It's a codename. And it's no better than Durango.

EDIT: looks like we'll be getting some "pew pew pew" action on PS4 (fig. 7). Sony patented depth tracking camera:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20120319950.pdf

Patents != new features...

MS just patented virtual hugs

 

[jaosobno]

Link isn't working

That was a link to playstation life style, I've changed it to freepatentsonline (PLS was censored, is it blacklisted on GAF?).

Patents != new features...

MS just patented virtual hugs

Perhaps it's just a patent to avoid future legal problems if they ever decide to go that way and perhaps it's a tech that we'll see in PS4. I'm more inclined to believe that they will ditch Move and go PS Eye 2.0 way.

 

[Graphics Horse]

That was a link to playstation life style, I've changed it to freepatentsonline (PLS was censored, is it blacklisted on GAF?).



Perhaps it's just a patent to avoid future legal problems if they ever decide to go that way and perhaps it's a tech that we'll see in PS4. I'm more inclined to believe that they will ditch Move and go PS Eye 2.0 way.

The patent was originally from 2005, but it's been recently updated with I'm not sure what.
All the images, fingergun included, were from the original patent.
http://www.google.com/patents/US7874917?printsec=drawing#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Massa]

And they achieve that how?

What do you mean, how? They bought Gaikai to own their tech. Putting it to work on Playstation hardware is the first order of business.