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Video of cancelled Streets of Rage leaks, developed at Ruffian (Crackdown 2).

S

saunderez

Member
OnPoint said:
I expected this to look terrible because of the comments in here, but it didn't look bad at all! I would have played the crap out of this.

The presentation was great too. I especially loved the Fringe-style text floating in the environment
Click to expand...

Absolutely agreed, I was expecting the worst but it actually looks pretty damn good.
 
A

Azure Phoenix

Member
Simply being 3D was the biggest mistake the prototype makes, and for that I'm glad it was cancelled. Any Streets of Rage title needs to be a 2D side scroller, otherwise it simply isn't Streets of Rage.
 
X

XxSlasherMcGirkxX

Member
Sorry I meant 2D to 3D brawlers. Stuff like SoR, Final Fight, Turtles, AvP, X-men arcade ect.

I wouldn't consider Ninja Gaiden, Shinobi and what not the same. Golden Axe was a good example. Terrible game but good example.
 
Herbspiceguy

Herbspiceguy

Member
I always thought it's a no-brainer for Sega to have Platinum develop a new Streets of Rage (or even Golden Axe) game. They're only the best developer for this type of game.
 
E

EvB

Member
There's a lot of Crackdown 2 hate in here, can't see what was wrong with it myself. More Crackdown was all it was.

I'm looking forward to what Ruffian have up their sleeves, for a prototype that looked better than I'd expect.
 
A

Akainu

Member
That was bad. And everyone looked like they had a stick up their ass.

Herbspicesoy said:
I always thought it's a no-brainer for Sega to have Platinum develop a new Streets of Rage (or even Golden Axe) game. They're only the best developer for this type of game.
Click to expand...
Apparently they are right for every game.

But after Madworld...meh
 
V

VariantX

Member
liked the presentation, but combat looked pretty eugh. I guess dynamite cop will always be my personal streets of rage 4 at this rate.
 
S

Satchel

Banned
Graphics and atmosphere are amazing.

combat engine looked like Crackdowns which would be horrible for a brawler.

while ceackdowns combat wasn't great, it was...functional, at best. But an open world sandbox shooter doesn't rely on cqc much.

streets of Rage needs it 100%. They'd need to rework it completely.
 
T

Tain

Member
VariantX said:
liked the presentation, but combat looked pretty eugh. I guess dynamite cop will always be my personal streets of rage 4 at this rate.
Click to expand...

Seven Force said:
Always thought Dynamite Deka/Die Hard Arcade would have made for a great Streets of Rage game, though.
Click to expand...

I don't really understand why there's so much pining for SoR 3D when the Dynamite Deka series has that almost covered. Give the games more badass music and tone down the goof factor a smidge and you're there.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
No Yuzo Koshiro, no sale. I don't care how good this turned out.

Unless it was amazing, and in that case I would've just imported the SoR2 soundtrack into this.
 
J

jdl

Banned
Looks like it had potential. Yet, the side scrolling perspective gives a better view of the action of this kind of game. Dynamite Cop was mentioned, and I feel like the majority of that combat is still happening on a 2d plane.
 
Xenon

Xenon

Member
SeanNoonan said:
To be honest in such a short time, the stage setting was the easiest and quickest way to get results - it's where the majority of my time went.
It's a pitch/prototype, it's not intended as a playable prototype (though it is actually playable). Typically meant to get the idea of a game across to a publisher.

Sure, it has issues, but it's a piece of my and Ruffian's portfolio that all involved should be proud of. I'm glad that people have finally get to see it :)

We were all dedicated and had a great fondness for the franchise, if that doesn't show in the video, than that's a shame, but even just in that level, there were plenty of nods to Sega and easter eggs.
Click to expand...

You should definitely should be proud of the video. It looks great. But, it's just not anything like the gameplay in Streets of Rage. So I don't think that was the best route to get results.

I'm not trying to be mean or fault your work because its a million times better than anything I could do. I am just giving my opinion as a die hard fan of the series.

Satchel said:
combat engine looked like Crackdowns which would be horrible for a brawler.
Click to expand...

I think we're looking at the Crackdown 3 combat engine. I love the game but the melee combat was never one of its strong points. So it does look like a step up.
 
eso76

eso76

Member
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
Has a 2d beat em up ever been translated into 3d and not been horrible?
Click to expand...

It can be done.
Nostalgia aside, there's absolutely no reason why SoR wouldn't work in 3d if done right.

Plus, we're talking of games (beu's in general) that were never really 2d; ever since double dragon and renegade they have always used all three dimensions.
Now, if what people mean is they'd rather have 2d handdrawn graphics then i absolutely agree, but from a gameplay perspective the difference could be negligible.
 
SeanNoonan

SeanNoonan

Member
jdl said:
Looks like it had potential. Yet, the side scrolling perspective gives a better view of the action of this kind of game. Dynamite Cop was mentioned, and I feel like the majority of that combat is still happening on a 2d plane.
Click to expand...
As I said, the plan was to use sidescrolling when it made sense - our camera system was flexible enough to handle this.
One of our intentions was to show that our intentions were a modern treatment of an old idea.
We had something that illustrated this... but that's certainly unlikely to see the light of day.

I have no idea how much I'm allowed to talk about, to be honest.

I'm just glad this is out in the open and generating some discussion of a well loved franchise, and potentially bringing it to some people's attention for the first time :)
 
Xenon

Xenon

Member
eso76 said:
Plus, we're talking of games (beu's in general) that were never really 2d; ever since double dragon and renegade they have always used all three dimensions.
Now, if what people mean is they'd rather have 2d handdrawn graphics then i absolutely agree, but from a gameplay perspective the difference could be negligible.
Click to expand...

Movement has been 3D but the actual combat was only done in 2D. I have not seen a brawler correctly do 3D combat.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
As a proof of concept that looks fucking awesome. I wish it had been given a proper release.

Obviously it needs a lot of work done to it, maybe combat being a bit faster but that's something a full dev cycle might have allowed for. I loved the exploding car and the phone box. Shame there were no roast chickens lying about.

Maybe one day Streets of Rage 4 will exist.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
LeBrick James said:
Looking at the gameplay, I have no faith in that developer.

I really want Capcom to bring back Final Fight. 2.5D
Click to expand...

Seven Sons would have been so fucking good oh my god

Really hope the concept is revived as a download project or something

Xenon said:
Movement has been 3D but the actual combat was only done in 2D. I have not seen a brawler correctly do 3D combat.
Click to expand...

SpikeOut

Urban Reign

Yakuza series

Anarchy Reigns

I'd honestly trust modern devs to do a 3D brawler right than a 2D.

Not really sure what else can be done with the genre in 2D besides the persistent RPG stuff and I'm not a fan of that.

While I don't think anyone has really scratched the surface of what can be done with that kind of pick up and play , local multiplayer arcade style combat in a 3D plane.

For that reason I'd be more interested in a new Final Fight or Streets of Rage in 3D than I would be another 2D game personally
 
T

therapist

Member
Shoulda just paid those guys who remade streets of rage (2 i think it was?) and got a cease and desist...this just looks bad no wonder it was cancelled.
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Not bad for an early dev build.

What's this pre-pre-pre-pre-Alpha stuff?

It goes:
Research
Dev
Alpha
Beta
Release Candidate
Release

Now I know Google has fucked this terminology up, but early Dev build should describe pre-pre-pre-pre-Alpha more elegantly.

Edit: Well pre-Alpha is the more common term for Dev. I still think it's dumb because why not call Alpha pre-Beta by that train of thought?
 
T

The Take Out Bandit

Member
lol Criminal Dumbster continues to be free as oxygen.

Final Fight was great in arcades, SNES version was total gimped trash. Remove Poison and Roxy and all related underboobage. Remove co-op play. Remove Guy.

Moar like Failnal Fight on SNES.

That's why Streets of Rage established a foothold in the 16-bit era, because gamers weren't dumb as brick console only gamers and that SNES version of Final Fight wasn't legit. So they got hype on Streets of Rage. Two player co-op. More moves than Final Fight. Great soundtrack.

Ebff2.gif
 
B

Borman

Member
teh_pwn said:
Not bad for an early dev build.

What's this pre-pre-pre-pre-Alpha stuff?

It goes:
Research
Dev
Alpha
Beta
Release Candidate
Release

Now I know Google has fucked this terminology up, but early Dev build should describe pre-pre-pre-pre-Alpha more elegantly.

Edit: Well pre-Alpha is the more common term for Dev. I still think it's dumb because why not call Alpha pre-Beta by that train of thought?
Click to expand...

Every developer has their own definition of what a specific development term means. In this case, it wasn't even an alpha. It was a pitch project. The game was never cancelled as it was never bought in the first place.
 
R

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Does nothing for me. Terrible art style and I would wish a prototype would introduce some new ideas in order to get greenlit.
 
SeanNoonan

SeanNoonan

Member
Xenon said:
Neither of those games are brawlers. A few examples of 3D brawlers would be Die Hard Arcade(Dynamite Deka) or Fighting Force.
Click to expand...
Not to say that you don't know best, but I would be curious to see the common definition of brawler and why those suggested titles don't fit into that category. I'm talking mechanically, not thematically.

It was something I was heavily invested in during the pitch process and spent large time researching games of their ilk.

I think a lot of people get confused when they're attempting to define genre and mechanics and get too focused on what they can see on screen; themes and settings or even camera position and movement. Said elements do not define a genre - at least, I bloody hope not :D
 
T

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!

Member
The Take Out Bandit said:
lol Criminal Dumbster continues to be free as oxygen.

Final Fight was great in arcades, SNES version was total gimped trash. Remove Poison and Roxy and all related underboobage. Remove co-op play. Remove Guy.

Moar like Failnal Fight on SNES.

That's why Streets of Rage established a foothold in the 16-bit era, because gamers weren't dumb as brick console only gamers and that SNES version of Final Fight wasn't legit. So they got hype on Streets of Rage. Two player co-op. More moves than Final Fight. Great soundtrack.

Ebff2.gif
Click to expand...

Sor also holds up better because its one of the only beat em ups from that era that was designed as a console game that could be beaten without the player having to insert a quarter every minute
 
C

CadetMahoney

Member
The Take Out Bandit said:
Ebff2.gif
Click to expand...

I'll take that thanks.

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
Sor also holds up better because its one of the only beat em ups from that era that was designed as a console game that could be beaten without the player having to insert a quarter every minute
Click to expand...

Not that it's directly related to the discussion, plenty of the 1990's arcade games like Punisher/AVP/CadillacsDino were 1coinable. . . I would dare say even on the hardest setting.
 
X

XxSlasherMcGirkxX

Member
That's also what I like about SoR. If I got hit or died it was my fault and not seem cheap invincible spammed move an enemy does or a boss that has a million health points. Every enemy has a set of attacks and knowing how and when to strike is key.
 
S

sega4ever

Member
The Take Out Bandit said:
lol Criminal Dumbster continues to be free as oxygen.

Final Fight was great in arcades, SNES version was total gimped trash. Remove Poison and Roxy and all related underboobage. Remove co-op play. Remove Guy.

Moar like Failnal Fight on SNES.

That's why Streets of Rage established a foothold in the 16-bit era, because gamers weren't dumb as brick console only gamers and that SNES version of Final Fight wasn't legit. So they got hype on Streets of Rage. Two player co-op. More moves than Final Fight. Great soundtrack.

Ebff2.gif
Click to expand...

preach it brother
 
Xenon

Xenon

Member
SeanNoonan said:
Not to say that you don't know best, but I would be curious to see the common definition of brawler and why those suggested titles don't fit into that category. I'm talking mechanically, not thematically.

It was something I was heavily invested in during the pitch process and spent large time researching games of their ilk.

I think a lot of people get confused when they're attempting to define genre and mechanics and get too focused on what they can see on screen; themes and settings or even camera position and movement. Said elements do not define a genre - at least, I bloody hope not :D
Click to expand...




I guess this is as good as place as any to get a definition. It defines those games you mentioned as Hack and Slash. Brawlers have been historically games where you transverse levels filled with enemies using mainly hand to hand combat. There are weapons and powerups, but they're not the main focus of the game. The games you mentioned focus on weapons. Also, for me at least, an important part of the satisfaction is the feeling of directly hitting you're opponent. That only comes from a well executed fighting mechanic during close physical combat. I don't get that from Kratos' chains flailing about. It's fun. However, there is a reason I only played through GoW a few times and SoR well into the hundreds. The further away you dispatch your opponents the less of a brawler the game becomes. /Yoda But trying to pinhole games into one genre is pointless because once you start hitting grey areas its all just opinions. Besides this discussion is about Streets of Rage. We're getting OT =)


Now Ill explain the reason why I don't think that 3D brawlers work. In a 2D game attacks are always directed to the opponent. You can feel the characters engaging each other. In 3D your swinging and hitting your enemies. But you have to point yourself in the direction of the thug and you land a hit if there is contact. The feeling of my character directly attacking the opponent is missing. So even though I'm about 20 degrees off and staring at the dudes shoulder Ill land a hook to the face. It just kills it for me. Maybe a good lock on system could resolve that issue. Who knows maybe they already have. Sorry Retro_ I haven't played any of those games. There is also the fact that attacking up or down hides the action as well, but that's getting really nit-picky.
 
Z

Zabka

Member
Going by the "no weapons" definition then the Turtles arcade games aren't brawlers and that's just crazy talk.

The prototype looks pretty cool. I'd love for someone to come out with a complex 3d hand-to-hand combat game. And by that I mean I fucking love God Hand and want more.
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
The Take Out Bandit said:
lol Criminal Dumbster continues to be free as oxygen.

Final Fight was great in arcades, SNES version was total gimped trash. Remove Poison and Roxy and all related underboobage. Remove co-op play. Remove Guy.

Moar like Failnal Fight on SNES.

That's why Streets of Rage established a foothold in the 16-bit era, because gamers weren't dumb as brick console only gamers and that SNES version of Final Fight wasn't legit. So they got hype on Streets of Rage. Two player co-op. More moves than Final Fight. Great soundtrack.

Ebff2.gif
Click to expand...

what did you think of the Sega CD port of Final Fight at the time? All characters, 2-player... I liked it.
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
The Take Out Bandit said:
lol Criminal Dumbster continues to be free as oxygen.

Final Fight was great in arcades, SNES version was total gimped trash. Remove Poison and Roxy and all related underboobage. Remove co-op play. Remove Guy.

Moar like Failnal Fight on SNES.

That's why Streets of Rage established a foothold in the 16-bit era, because gamers weren't dumb as brick console only gamers and that SNES version of Final Fight wasn't legit. So they got hype on Streets of Rage. Two player co-op. More moves than Final Fight. Great soundtrack.

Ebff2.gif
Click to expand...
B-b-b-but Final Fight totally had an awesome port that generation! :<

...for the Sega CD. And even then I kinda prefer Streets of Rage 2. It's solid, though; all three characters, two-player, no cut levels, and a kickin' remixed soundtrack; puts the SNES port to shame on every front. Yeah, I see it's already been mentioned, but still.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Xenon said:
Now Ill explain the reason why I don't think that 3D brawlers work. In a 2D game attacks are always directed to the opponent. You can feel the characters engaging each other. In 3D your swinging and hitting your enemies. But you have to point yourself in the direction of the thug and you land a hit if there is contact. The feeling of my character directly attacking the opponent is missing. So even though I'm about 20 degrees off and staring at the dudes shoulder Ill land a hook to the face. It just kills it for me. Maybe a good lock on system could resolve that issue. Who knows maybe they already have.
Click to expand...

Err....what? What game are you describing here

and you can be facing away from enemies in 2D brawlers.

You can whiff attacks by not being perfectly lined up with an enemy in some games. This is particularly annoying in SOR2 with a very early boss in the game for beginners who aren't able to accurately judge the spacing yet.

If anything I think this type of game would be more natural in a 3D space in this regard simply from the added benefit of depth perception.
 
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