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[deviljho]

Now here is where you lost me. I'm not sure why it would be different. I don't really need to look at my mouse wheel to scroll properly. You would just touch and wiggle your fingers around while watching the image on-screen.


First let me say that you are right in that none of this is impossible with one method or the other. I'm only arguing that I like multitouch a little better for these situations. Clearly we've been ok with manipulating maps and zooming on things with the regular controllers for years.

That said, the dpad/analog method requires a few more steps, right. Like switch to one mode for panning, switch to another for zooming, switch to another for rotating. Whereas with multitouch I could press one button (click touchpad maybe) to bring the map up on the TV, and then I can control all three of those aspects with one single motion. I can make the map bigger, spin it, and zoom it, all by putting two fingers down and twisting/spreading/pinching slightly. It's really hard to beat that for this kind of manipulation. The analog would need to know which aspect to adjust: zoom? pan? rotate? and necessitate mode switching.

Yeah, the controller set up would require more steps for the more complicated tasks. I started off giving the example of one clickable analog stick vs. pinch-to-zoom on a touchpad. But I am also saying that these other tasks could be done by mapping the various commands to both sticks and some buttons. And I'm also saying, that while this method isn't ideal, in my "prediction" it isn't that much more cumbersome than using a trackpad.

Now, we if want to move the dicussion to the Gamepad and the Dualshock 4... I'd say that since both have analog sticks/buttons, the difference comes down to the Wii U's larger single-touch screen vs. the DS4's smaller, multi-touch touchpad. And I can't take any argument that says the DS4's multitouch will be anything greater in terms of overall functionality than what the Gamepad could offer.

I would much rather do a pinching/twisting motion a touchpad than push a button and move a stick and not move my hand from the contoller.

Preferences Choice Options
Now you're playing with power!

 

[Nostremitus]

No offense taken whatsoever my man, all in good fun.



Ok – my response in the form of my main question, which is: why frame this within the context of a frantic game?

I believe things like the gamepad screen will be best used when the game is actually paused, or awaiting user action. Of course buttons are better for the faster moments that require some level of "twitch". That's why all but the simplest action-oriented games are ill suited for touchscreen platforms like iOS (I'd say the outer limit is somewhere around Temple Run level of complexity).

But that is hardly every situation or every game. Say there was a version of XCOM for Wii U. Which would you rather do: button-cycle to the man you want, or simply tap him? Pull up the Zoom In and Zoom Out buttons and tap them, or just adjust the view screen quickly with finger + thumb? Turn-based, or menu-based games, no issue. Pause screen, no issue.

It's like using the Wii remote (or Move for that matter) for shooting; I happen to think it's better, and lots of other people do too, but that doesn't mean you can't do it with dual sticks. Just more elegant the other way.


It's unfortunate Nintendo went that route but I guess I can see their reasons. I just don't think anyone wants to whip out a stylus in the middle of playing Watch Dogs. I do think Ubi will do something cool with that screen that will make the PS4/720 players a bit envious of that aspect though. It's just too tempting. Really curious to see how the SmartGlass/PS App stuff matches up, if at all.

I framed it concerning a frantic game because we're talking about the use of multitouch in Watch_Dogs. ...at least I was. I've never said that there weren't situations in which multitouch would have its uses, but concerning the topic of the thread I don't feel that it does in this situation. I'd rather use the touchscreen to make commands on the fly while playing. No need to stop the action to turn the streetlights green, no need to worry if I accidently rotated slightly while pinching.

I just don't feel that the extra cost associated with capacitive multitouch is worth the rewards in an any case in which buttons and analog sticks are available..

Regarding Xcom, I'd rather tap him then use an analog stick to zoom. That way my right hand is available to perform other tasks. I'd also like to be able to select the character instead of the general area around him, or the guy standing next to him because the capacitive screen can't tell precisely where i'm touching. Either way, this is about as relevant as arguing over thumbstick placement... I personally prefer the Gamecube/Xbox layout, others don't.


The same goes with touchscreens. I like the multitouch screen on my phone, but after playing with the Wii U's screen I don't think it would be as good with it. There are things that can be done on a resistive screen that can't be done as well on capacitive. I like not having to worry about accidently brushing the screen and causing something to happen that i didn't intend. I also like the precision of being able to use a stylus or the edge of my fingernail to touch the exact point i'm trying to instead of having the system try to guess what I was intending to touch.

 

[Gummb]

Did not know Romania had large development studios. This is awesome! Will support.

 

[iMerc]

We're going to applaud a 2 point touchscreen that's the size of a thumb over a full blown touchscreen? One that supports an actual accurate method of input?Slide to unlock works perfectly fine on a resistive screen! A stylus that would let you pinpoint poke anything won't work on ds4, which gives the Wii U the upper hand in any RTS.
Apparently input accuracy doesn't matter to people. I guess this is why console shooters are popular. WTF guys.

you're a voice of reason in a thread filled with rabid console warrior zealots.

i'm sure ubisoft will implement some decent mechanics with the ps4's touchpad.
i'm sure they'll do the same with the wiiU's gamepad.

I would personally prefer a touch controller with a decent sized screen vs. one without one at all, but both versions will be fine.

there's absolutely NO reason to downplay either implementation; other than some sense of 'moral victory' that some likely get out of this. from 'either' side.
like i said. zealotry.

 

[Zoramon089]

The fanboys are out strong in this one. I can't believe I'm actually seeing people who think a touchPAD, as in NO screen, that looks to be a small 2 inch square is better than an actual large touch screen. It's absolutely ridiculous and absurd to the point where I think a lot of the posts are joking...but they're not

 

[deviljho]

The fanboys are out strong in this one. I can't believe I'm actually seeing people who think a touchPAD, as in NO screen, that looks to be a small 2 inch square is better than an actual large touch screen. It's absolutely ridiculous and absurd to the point where I think a lot of the posts are joking...but they're not

you don't gotta tell me... cache rules motherfucker

Spoiler

let me know if/when that gets annoying

 

[Twilight Princess]

i have loads of touch screen devices at home, >8. imo the gamepad is just as user friendly as my ipad, with the added benefit of being more precise when you use the stylus.
the biggest disadvantage of the gamepad is that the screen isn't as responsive as my tablets, when i swipe to flip screens like in netflix, it does not scroll as smoothly.

 

[Tobor]

The fanboys are out strong in this one. I can't believe I'm actually seeing people who think a touchPAD, as in NO screen, that looks to be a small 2 inch square is better than an actual large touch screen. It's absolutely ridiculous and absurd to the point where I think a lot of the posts are joking...but they're not

It's better in that it's multitouch, and worse, in that it isn't a screen(and is smaller). Both have drawbacks, this isn't a black and white discussion.

 

[Zoramon089]

you don't gotta tell me... cache rules motherfucker

Spoiler

let me know if/when that gets annoying

Haha, it's all good

i have loads of touch screen devices at home, >8. imo the gamepad is just as user friendly as my ipad, with the added benefit of being more precise when you use the stylus.
the biggest disadvantage of the gamepad is that the screen isn't as responsive as my tablets, when i swipe to flip screens like in netflix, it does not scroll as smoothly.

That sounds like more of a software implementation difference than a hardware limitation

It's better in that it's multitouch, and worse, in that it isn't a screen(and is smaller). Both have drawbacks, this isn't a black and white discussion.

But there's yet to be any benefit given to it being touch screen without ignoring the buttons on the gamepad. Not to mention you equate the two like being multitouch makes up for it being tiny and not having a screen. A touch screen is MUCH MUCH more capable than a touchpad. It's why tablets have screens and not just small touchpads at the bottom

 

[kinggroin]

i have loads of touch screen devices at home, >8. imo the gamepad is just as user friendly as my ipad, with the added benefit of being more precise when you use the stylus.
the biggest disadvantage of the gamepad is that the screen isn't as responsive as my tablets, when i swipe to flip screens like in netflix, it does not scroll as smoothly.

Touchscreen is perfectly responsive. That Netflix app is just horribly optimized and incredibly laggy.

 

[SRTtoZ]

I wanna see what this game looks like on current gen systems first. I have a feeling what we've been seeing from the PC/PS4 demo isnt anything like what we will see on current gen consoles.

 

[Zoramon089]

I'm really not trying to antagonistic here, but I don't understand anything you just said (not good with this technical stuff).

Anywho, answer me this: Do you think that the devs will take the time out to port to the Wii U's strengths? Do you think the Wii U version of the game will be any different from the PS360 version of the game besides maybe off-tv play and a few other stuff with the tablet controller? Serious question.

I'm saying all versions are being ported down from the PC which is the de facto best version so the WiiU won't suffer from the limitations the PS3/360 version has because it's not being ported from them. It'll suffer from any limitations it has handling what was running on the PC, regardless of how the PS3/360 versions run

 

[prag16]

I'm saying all versions are being ported down from the PC which is the de facto best version so the WiiU won't suffer from the limitations the PS3/360 version has because it's not being ported from them. It'll suffer from any limitations it has handling what was running on the PC, regardless of how the PS3/360 versions run

I suppose we don't actually know how they're handling it.

If the Bucharest studio is handling all three of the currently released platforms (unconfirmed), they may very well start by branching the "real" code, then stripping things down for a lowest common denominator that all three platforms can start with, and then branch from there for platform work.

If that's the case, the troll cries of "lulz PS360 port" still would be false, but for practical purposes *almost* true..

 

[Oppo]

I framed it concerning a frantic game because we're talking about the use of multitouch in Watch_Dogs. ...at least I was. I've never said that there weren't situations in which multitouch would have its uses, but concerning the topic of the thread I don't feel that it does in this situation. I'd rather use the touchscreen to make commands on the fly while playing. No need to stop the action to turn the streetlights green, no need to worry if I accidently rotated slightly while pinching.

Ok. I think i've said what I had to say so thanks for the response. I will just add that Watch Dogs does in fact "stop the action" or at least slows down to super slo-mo when you use powers. The demo seems to indicate that you basically press a Hack button, or pull up a power wheel. *shrug*

(Also - you seem to be under the impression that I called oyu a console warrior, are you sure i was actually quoting you? anyways sorry if I gave the wrong impression.)

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

I'd rather have pointer control then pad. That shit was amazing in Godfather Wii. Just worked so well.

 

[grimshawish]

Both have drawbacks, this isn't a black and white discussion.

Actually the PS4 screen is just black.
I thought it was a screen anyway; oh well. Am not sure I see the point in but cool.

If not a screen then I think it is black and white. Their not for the same functions.

 

[butman]

You mean like off-tv play?

I mean the Tablet screen extra features, every time that a company want to make a Multi-game (released on PS3, 360, PS4 or 720) for WiiU, they must figure it out how to make a special feature for the WiiU controller screen.
And believe me, these "extra features" will be most often useless, just for putting something on the screen.

Except the first party games, like Mario, Zelda, Metroid etc.

 

[Zarovitch]

Actually the PS4 screen is just black.
I thought it was a screen anyway; oh well. Am not sure I see the point in but cool.

If not a screen then I think it is black and white. Their not for the same functions.

It's just a pad on the PS4 controller?
I thought it was a small screen for at least some text.

 

[deviljho]

I mean the Tablet screen extra features, every time that a company want to make a Multi-game (released on PS3, 360, PS4 or 720) for WiiU, they must figure it out how to make a special feature for the WiiU controller screen.

or just add off-tv play...

 

[grimshawish]

It's just a pad on the PS4 controller?
I thought it was a small screen for at least some text.

This is what I thought.
Sony didn't show anything with it so am suspicious as to what it does; you'd have thought they'd have had some of their own ideas, whether screen or pad.

 

[Nostremitus]

Ok. I think i've said what I had to say so thanks for the response. I will just add that Watch Dogs does in fact "stop the action" or at least slows down to super slo-mo when you use powers. The demo seems to indicate that you basically press a Hack button, or pull up a power wheel. *shrug*

(Also - you seem to be under the impression that I called oyu a console warrior, are you sure i was actually quoting you? anyways sorry if I gave the wrong impression.)

Oh wow, you're right. Sorry, you didn't quote me when you said that, lol. My bad, I'll edit.
Oh yeah. There was a power wheel, but like Mass Effect on Wii U, those could be mapped on a screen for quicker access. Not that it's always the best thing to do, sometimes you need that moment frozen in time to strategize.

 

[Oppo]

This is what I thought.
Sony didn't show anything with it so am suspicious as to what it does; you'd have thought they'd have had some of their own ideas, whether screen or pad.

Why are you suspicious? it's a trackpad. Like on a laptop. Nothing exotic really.

Oh wow, you're right. Sorry, you didn't quote me when you said that, lol. My bad, I'll edit.
Oh yeah. There was a power wheel, but like Mass Effect on Wii U, those could be mapped on a screen for quicker access. Not that it's always the best thing to do, sometimes you need that moment frozen in time to strategize.

I still think the Shield Pose type thing where you hold up the game pad to "reveal" the AR layer seems like a shoe-in.

 

[Roo]

I was joking, c'mon

I would like multitouch on the WiiU game pad, but i think the implementation of
the game pad could be better than the touchpad on the PS4.

For the moment the lack of multitouch don't kill this game, the lack of power can be worst.

It's just that sometimes I can't even tell if people is joking or blatantly trolling the Wii U anymore

 

[Nostremitus]

This is what I thought.
Sony didn't show anything with it so am suspicious as to what it does; you'd have thought they'd have had some of their own ideas, whether screen or pad.

Think about the touchpad on the back of the Vita, now imagine it was moved to the front of a Dual Shock controller. That should just about sum in up as far as functionality goes. Could it do more? Possibly, but i'd doubt it.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

don't know if it's been said, but it's probably best that tablet features are undecided as for now. This ensures there won't be some mechanism in game that requires the pad to progress. Those sections in games are the worst.

I'd prefer a tacked on feature if anything.

 

[Zarovitch]

It's just that sometimes I can't even tell if people is joking or blatantly trolling the Wii U anymore

I understand, i should have put a smiley.
But i laugh when i realise that you have think that i was serious.

edit: Hey! there was a smiley
it was a poke at excessif GDDR5 lover

 

[Medalion]

It's just that sometimes I can't even tell if people is joking or blatantly trolling the Wii U anymore

Does it even matter anymore? The fact it's gotten to that point says something about the system's situation.

 

[kirby_fox]

Map on one side showing where you want to go and other hot spots of activity. Cell phone on the other that you can bring up and use to hack and hide if need to.

Support off screen play.

And we're good to go.

 

[Roo]

I understand, i should have put a smiley.
But i laugh when i realise that you have think that i was serious.

edit: Hey! there was a smiley
it was a poke at excessif GDDR5 lover

My bad then

Does it even matter anymore? The fact it's gotten to that point says something about the system's situation.

Not really, but that's exactly the point tho.
We know the system is underpowered compared to the other two.
We get it so give it a break and move on.

 

[Thoraxes]

I really hate the pinch to zoom in and out gesture. Turned it off on my Macbook. I just double tap which is easy to do on a single touch screen.

You heathen!

 

[AzaK]

Simple port it is

Yeah shame it's not by the main team done alongside PS4/Durango because well get something that's identical to the 360/PS3.

 

[Baconsammy]

If the awful Murphy levels in the Rayman demo taught me anything, don't make me look away from the TV down to the controller to play the game. If you do that, I won't buy your game. Not speaking about this game in particular, but overall. This game is getting bought on PS4 or next Xbox.

 

[Chû Totoro]

I'll buy this version. Thanks for supporting the system of my favorites franchises Ubi !

 

[KingSnake]

The FB page of Ubisoft Romania contains a photo with the team working on Watch Dogs and this photo was posted right after the PS4 announcement. The text states: "Did you see the PS4 presentation and the new Watch Dogs trailer? We are proud to present the team that works in this project in Bucharest"

This makes me understand that Ubisoft Romania is part of the project itself, not just the Wii U port. And if they were involved in ZombiU they did quite a good job with the gamepad.

 

[Hero of Legend]

The FB page of Ubisoft Romania contains a photo with the team working on Watch Dogs and this photo was posted right after the PS4 announcement. The text states: "Did you see the PS4 presentation and the new Watch Dogs trailer? We are proud to present the team that works in this project in Bucharest"

This makes me understand that Ubisoft Romania is part of the project itself, not just the Wii U port. And if they were involved in ZombiU they did quite a good job with the gamepad.

So maybe they are very qualified to to the Wii U version if they're working so closely on the PS4 version with Montreal?

But who's doing the PS360 versions? Hope it's not the same team and those versions are seen as the least-focused versions and Wii U gets its fair dues. I don't want the Wii U version just being a straight port of the PS360 version.

 

[majik13]

For reals? I did not see that. Awesome!

Really when did he say that? He PM you with this info?

sorry I was offline for awhile, maybe this was already linked

Yes, it was the "branded next gen game coming to Wii U" i was talking about since a while now

The real question is which version it will be (concerning the Wii U), as there are definitively a high-end one and a current-gen one.

Last time i heard, it was between, a bit better here and there than the current gen version, but not up to the next-gen one unfortunately. This situation could improve though (with the familiarization of Ubi's team to the Wii U hardware, SDK's, etc.)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=47763935#post47763935

 

[majik13]

The FB page of Ubisoft Romania contains a photo with the team working on Watch Dogs and this photo was posted right after the PS4 announcement. The text states: "Did you see the PS4 presentation and the new Watch Dogs trailer? We are proud to present the team that works in this project in Bucharest"

This makes me understand that Ubisoft Romania is part of the project itself, not just the Wii U port. And if they were involved in ZombiU they did quite a good job with the gamepad.

I remember hearing there was a separate team that did the multiplayer portion of ZombiU. I think Montpelier is the main Ubi studio credited with ZombiU, so perhaps this Bucharest team handled just the multi. Which was still great albeit simple gamepad use.

Edit: Yep seems to be the case, but seems they also assisted with single player.

To make that happen in time for launch, Ubisoft Bucharest took lead on the multiplayer part of the game (and assisted with single-player)

http://www.polygon.com/2012/11/13/3592140/zombiu-path-to-wii-U-launch

Its good there is a team somewhat familiar with the hardware working on the game, as ZombiU was great.