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[gribbles]

I still think it's so damn funny when certain people on NeoGAF act all high and mighty against 4chan like there's that much separating this community and that one outside of better moderation here and anonymity there. I get that it deserves a grain of salt because there's no proof unless you do it or see it yourself, but their conjecture and ours is worth about the same otherwise.

This. The only difference I've seen from a lot of posters on here and 4chan, are that the people on here use proper grammar.

 

[Soph]

Didn't the band Radiohead let you "pirate" one of their albums and decide after listening to it how much you wanted to pay for it? Some people didn't like the new style of music so didn't really pay anything, while others were so happy with a new Radiohead album they went way over the normal retail value.Try before you buy has been a proven marketing strategy also when you buy a new car, taking the car for a spin first highly raises the chances of you actually buying set car.

I wouldn't be surprised if pirates who did pirate a game and liked them actually did pay for them afterwards. Obviously, there's always leeches who just don't want to pay for the providers of their entertainment, freebies like that do such things in any layer of our society though.

I hope the general hate on GAF against any pirate tones down a bit, it's remarkably silly to read through this topic.

 

[RedSwirl]

While I agree with your examples as being true your one mistake here is that games or entertainment are somehow a right and if you can't afford all the games you want or don't like how they are packaged then it's ok to pirate them or that's a valid excuse. It's not. Imho if you can afford a pc and Internet connection you can afford to pay for your games in any region. If you can't afford every game you want then wait till they are cheaper. No one has a right to free content/ip.

You gotta price games according to what people find reasonable in each market. That's why some console games in Japan are $100 while the same ones are $60 here (which is why they get delayed or region locked). And then that same game might be like $10 or $20 in Russia.

Maybe people don't deserve free content, but in some cases market restrictions happen for bullshit reasons. I think the games that cost $60 in the US officially cost a lot more in some South American countries even though most people down there make less money. Affordability of things like internet differs between countries, so the comparison between the cost of internet and the cost of games isn't the same everywhere. And I still don't understand why Australians have to pay like $90 for the standard edition of a game AND overpay for shitty internet. Not to mention all the games that get banned or censored because the government down there still thinks games are for children.

Maybe electronic media isn't a right, but publishers are still probably leaving money on the table by neglecting certain markets. They're also leaving money on the table by making the acquiring of games unreasonably difficult. Just look at Virtual Console. That service could be a goldmine if Nintendo was more aggressive with releases, made them cross-platform, and fixed a lot of other issues to at least try to make it look like a good alternative to downloading ROMs. Cross-platform VC games alone would probably do it for me.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

Didn't the band Radiohead let you "pirate" one of their albums and decide after listening to it how much you wanted to pay for it? Some people didn't like the new style of music so didn't really pay anything, while others were so happy with a new Radiohead album they went way over the normal retail value.Try before you buy has been a proven marketing strategy also when you buy a new car, taking the car for a spin first highly raises the chances of you actually buying set car.

Believe it was "In Rainbows". Also, Moby has publicly gone on record to say he doesn't care if people pirate his stuff as long as people enjoy it.

Still, this is obviously not either of these things.

 

[Saintguine]

So, has there been any proof of a Bitcoin miner yet like how it was proven the ESEA client was a Bitcoin miner or are we still going off a single 4chan post with no proof?

 

[Zeth]

This must be the free test version I keep hearing about in the PC performance thread.

 

[sueil]

Never believe anything you read on 4chan. Every mention of this just lead's back to that one post. Seems like a hoax to me.

 

[SnakeEyes]

It's been interesting to see this guy's feeble attempts to justify it throughout this thread, after removing the word shit from every other sentence we can conclude the following:

1. piracy is a victimless crime. you think otherwise? lol
2. anyone opposing this is surely feigning
3. i dont like the RRP, it must be artificially inflated
4. why won't they the lower the RRP, they'd still make bank on consoles
5. its all good, it is AAA after all. they take it into consideration
6. scratch that, anyone opposing is now surely a corporate apologist
7. there are worse things happening in the world right now, leave us be
8. they already make too much money, its time for others to get a piece of the action

and you have the audacity to claim people are talking shit? you're free to do as you please, just don't try to sugarcoat it in public so you can feel better about yourself. cunt.

Preach it.

Not that it matters though, Marcel is banned so won't be able to respond to this sick burn...

 

[The Red Wizard]

RE: piracy = stealing

Piracy != stealing. Theft has a very specific definition in law, as does copyright infringement. Neither of these crimes overlap and so piracy cannot be called stealing. The foundation of the distinction is the fact that a physical item is appropriated from its owner in the case of theft whereas, in the case of copyright infringement, a copy is made and used by the indictable party.

This is a very basic aspect of law that can be understood by anyone with a decent reading ability and a bit of common sense. To liken piracy to stealing is narrow minded and belittles the value of words that are used to describe specific infractions.

 

[mechphree]

I used to pirate my PC games. I pirated AC 2 and after I enjoyed it purchased the next installments all the way up to AC3. Yea it's unlikely but not impossible for a pirate to make the switch.

 

[Trace]

On the topic of Piracy not affecting sales.....

FM 2014 sold near 20% less than FM 2013, the difference being 2013 had to wait 6 months for a working crack , FM14 was cracked day 1.

So the game sold 20% less because of piracy? No other possible reasons?

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

RE: piracy = stealing

Piracy != stealing. Theft has a very specific definition in law, as does copyright infringement. Neither of these crimes overlap and so piracy cannot be called stealing. The foundation of the distinction is the fact that a physical item is appropriated from its owner in the case of theft whereas, in the case of copyright infringement, a copy is made and used by the indictable party.

This is a very basic aspect of law that can be understood by anyone with a decent reading ability and a bit of common sense. To liken piracy to stealing is narrow minded and belittles the value of words that are used to describe specific infractions.

I have no problem with this.

But I do have a problem with people making point of the distinction to absolve them of any moral wrongdoing. "It's not defined as stealing because I'm making a copy" is a cheap semantic loophole and one of many poor arguments to try to justify piracy (right up there with "piracy does not equal lost sales").

 

[many places]

What?

Pirates can't complain if they are infected but the person who implemented the malware into the cracked game is also at fault.

 

[Rebel Leader]

So, has there been any proof of a Bitcoin miner yet like how it was proven the ESEA client was a Bitcoin miner or are we still going off a single 4chan post with no proof?

It used to be about bitcoin now it's about piracy... arrgg

 

[The Red Wizard]

I have no problem with this.

But I do have a problem with people making point of the distinction to absolve them of any moral wrongdoing. "It's not defined as stealing because I'm making a copy" is a cheap semantic loophole and one of many poor arguments to try to justify piracy (right up there with "piracy does not equal lost sales").

I agree that the 'piracy isn't theft' argument shouldn't absolve pirates of the wrongful nature of their actions.

With regards to piracy does not equal lost sales, this is true in some cases. Some people will use a pirated game to make sure that their systems can run the game before they buy it. Others may wish to form their own opinions of a game before reviews are published, perhaps because the reviews are under embargo until the day of the game's launch. In such cases, the consumer will not allow the availability of a free copy dominate his/her decision to buy them game.

It is also necessary to consider gamers who never had any interest in buying a certain game but decided to play it for free by pirating it. I'm not arguing the moral merits of such actions; I am highlighting a case where the game would never be sold to a certain individual. Such cases are similar to borrowing the game from a friend because person A would never buy the game himself but person B happens to own the game and will let person A play it. In such cases, a sale may be created because person A enjoys the game so much, he buys his own copy.

 

[mutatedwombat]

Thank goodness. It's always good when parasites who harm our hobby get punished in some small way.

This. The parasites are attracting parasites. Seems fair.

 

[Denton]

Ah yes the Cdpr example, the white knights of pc gaming. I love cdpr as much as the next guy bit they benefit from lower costs due to their location of business and it isn't feasible for every company to do this.

CD Projekt mainly benefits from being well managed company. They started from nothing, and over the last 20 years build up step by step, from retail publishing, through digital publishing, to AAA game development. Yes, not every company is able to do this.

Also the 1 pirated copy =/= 1 lost sale argument is so old and ridiculous. Of course that's true but there is a cost and lost sales overall. Students do game and can *gasp* pay for entertainment. Or are all pirates completely poor with their gaming PC's they paid for. It's just silly example after silly example in your post.

I am not saying there are NO lost sales, but not every pirated being a lost sale is simply true. Nothing old or ridiculous about it. Ask people who are actually making games, they will tell you the same thing.
No idea what you mean by "silly example after silly example". Maybe you meant someone else's post ?

I was a student at one time and I had a gaming PC and I also paid for software. I know it's crazy.

Good for you, so did I. Not everyone can afford it. And many people still want to play games, even if they cannot afford them. It is horrible of them, I know. There are people in poorer countries who spend the money they can on hardware, but don't have anymore left for software, because of other thing they have to spend money on. I know - "if they cannot afford it, they should not play it". But that is not how human nature works. Note that I am not excusing it, just saying how it is.

Personally I own over 500 PC games across steam, gog and retail and around 10 PS3 games, but I do not judge others who cannot afford to pay for software but still want to play games.
Obviously, if someone has the means, and still pirates everything...well, fuck 'em.

 

[nhlducks35]

On the topic of Piracy not affecting sales.....

FM 2014 sold near 20% less than FM 2013, the difference being 2013 had to wait 6 months for a working crack , FM14 was cracked day 1.

Correlation does not imply causation

 

[Speevy]

CD Projekt mainly benefits from being well managed company. They started from nothing, and over the last 20 years build up step by step, from retail publishing, through digital publishing, to AAA game development. Yes, not every company is able to do this.



I am not saying there are NO lost sales, but not every pirated being a lost sale is simply true. Nothing old or ridiculous about it. Ask people who are actually making games, they will tell you the same thing.
No idea what you mean by "silly example after silly example". Maybe you meant someone else's post ?



Good for you, so did I. Not everyone can afford it. And many people still want to play games, even if they cannot afford them. It is horrible of them, I know. There are people in poorer countries who spend the money they can on hardware, but don't have anymore left for software, because of other thing they have to spend money on. I know - "if they cannot afford it, they should not play it". But that is not how human nature works. Note that I am not excusing it, just saying how it is.

Personally I own over 500 PC games across steam, gog and retail and around 10 PS3 games, but I do not judge others who cannot afford to pay for software but still want to play games.
Obviously, if someone has the means, and still pirates everything...well, fuck 'em.

If someone can't afford games, they should probably buy necessities like food and clothing before investing in expensive gaming hardware.

 

[thiscoldblack]

Whoever did this: well played.

 

[catmario]

Piracy users gonna cry for this.

Good job!

 

[Syph Medwes]

This is genius
Twist: Ubisoft uploaded the torrent

 

[Orca]

This. The only difference I've seen from a lot of posters on here and 4chan, are that the people on here use proper grammar.

Oh boy I hope that was intentional...

 

[FeiRR]

Ah yes the Cdpr example, the white knights of pc gaming. I love cdpr as much as the next guy bit they benefit from lower costs due to their location of business and it isn't feasible for every company to do this.

Contrary to the popular belief, employment costs in Poland are incredibly high, much higher than, for example, in the UK. Salaries alone are lower but it's not the only thing you have to consider when running a business.

CD Projekt mainly benefits from being well managed company. They started from nothing, and over the last 20 years build up step by step, from retail publishing, through digital publishing, to AAA game development. Yes, not every company is able to do this.

Their financial background comes from a PC manufacturer company which was brought to its knees by Polish tax office, probably because somebody high up didn't like somebody from the company or there was some foreign money involved. They also owned the biggest news portal in Poland until their dispute with the tax office. They come from a rich environment of a huge holding which had its problems but transformed and survived.

Good for you, so did I. Not everyone can afford it. And many people still want to play games, even if they cannot afford them.

Last time I checked, games weren't essential for sustaining living like food or accommodation. Also last time I checked, there were thousands of free or very cheap games available for those who can't afford more, especially on PC. Those are just excuses.

 

[jetjevons]

Piracy leads to sales?

Yeah, I can just imagine 1000s of assholes who pirated the game literally rushing out to their local gamestop day one to drop $60 on a game they already have on their HDD and have played for free for dozens of hours.

1000s!

Because, you know, pirates are those wonderful kinds of respectful, decent human beings that would do that sort of thing.

 

[Denton]

If someone can't afford games, they should probably buy necessities like food and clothing before investing in expensive gaming hardware.

I agree.

Their financial background comes from a PC manufacturer company which was brought to its knees by Polish tax office, probably because somebody high up didn't like somebody from the company or there was some foreign money involved. They also owned the biggest news portal in Poland until their dispute with the tax office. They come from a rich environment of a huge holding which had its problems but transformed and survived.

This I did not know, do you have a source ?
However in 94 when CDP started they did not already own biggest news portal or have a huge holding behind them, no ?
And what is this huge holding anyway, Optimus of what was its name, that they merged with ?

Last time I checked, games weren't essential for sustaining living like food or accommodation. Also last time I checked, there were thousands of free or very cheap games available for those who can't afford more, especially on PC. Those are just excuses.

I agree, actually. But it is how it is. People want to play those expensive AAA games as soon as possible.

 

[BigDug13]

Pirates just need to be more patient. It's much easier to not get screwed in your download when you go for a 6 month old torrent. That's what I've heard from others that is...

 

[hlhbk]

Piracy leads to sales?

Yeah, I can just imagine 1000s of assholes who pirated the game literally rushing out to their local gamestop day one to drop $60 on a game they already have on their HDD and have played for free for dozens of hours.

1000s!

Because, you know, pirates are those wonderful kinds of respectful, decent human beings that would do that sort of thing.

I garuntee you intrusive always online DRM has cost the PC gaming industry more sales than piracy ever have or will in the future.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

That's... meta.

 

[x3sphere]

So, has there been any proof of a Bitcoin miner yet like how it was proven the ESEA client was a Bitcoin miner or are we still going off a single 4chan post with no proof?

Most likely some random person downloaded the game from another source, which was clean, added the infected files, then uploaded it on another torrent site. I'm sure this happens a lot. If you are savvy enough it's easy to avoid tainted downloads like these, so I doubt a lot of pirates are getting hit by it.

 

[RulkezX]

So the game sold 20% less because of piracy? No other possible reasons?

Correlation does not imply causation

The game sells ~750k every year for dam near 10 years , the one year it's not piratable it sold a lot more.

I know it doesn't suit the pro pirate agenda but it is what it is.

 

[Nessus]

Pirating PC games seems so 2006. Like, people actually still do that? Do they do it while listening to Eminem songs they downloaded off of Kazaa?

 

[la_briola]

I have no problem with this.

But I do have a problem with people making point of the distinction to absolve them of any moral wrongdoing. "It's not defined as stealing because I'm making a copy" is a cheap semantic loophole and one of many poor arguments to try to justify piracy (right up there with "piracy does not equal lost sales").

If you are referring to me: The post you are quoting is the point I was making, or trying to do.

In no way was I saying that making a unauthorized copy of a game is right.

 

[Joni]

I remembered an important fact for all the people that say piracy would drop if the prices were lowered: a lot of people don't pay for the Humble Bundle while downloading it from the official site. Something for charity that you could buy for $0.01.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I have no problem with this.

But I do have a problem with people making point of the distinction to absolve them of any moral wrongdoing. "It's not defined as stealing because I'm making a copy" is a cheap semantic loophole and one of many poor arguments to try to justify piracy (right up there with "piracy does not equal lost sales").

Seriously. You'd think that someone making an argument about the legal status of those acts would be smart enough to realize "oh wait, shit's still illegal."

 

[RedSwirl]

A lot of people in this thread seem to think all pirates are the same, or lump them into one giant group when the truth is that people pirate games for a shitload of reasons all over the planet. As I noted earlier, you can't even assume every market is the same.

As for CDProjekt, the whole reason that company was founded was to fight piracy. They built up a successful game company in a region and time where almost everyone pirated games and almost no one legitimately bought games, and they've done it without DRM.

 

[Mysterious Stranger]

Dunno how people can believe 4chan to tell the truth? 4chan speads a lot of rumors. If this was happening it would be on every news site.

 

[warheat]

lol

 

[Garcia]

I disagree. I wholeheartedly support any action taken against thieves. People who pirate are stealing.

Go tell that to the people who post in the (100% approved) Manga Discussion thread.

 

[Necrovex]

Go tell that to the people who post in the (100% approved) Manga Discussion thread.

And anime discussion thread.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Y'all got trolled by 4chan lol

 

[rocketskates]

Piracy leads to sales?

Yeah, I can just imagine 1000s of assholes who pirated the game literally rushing out to their local gamestop day one to drop $60 on a game they already have on their HDD and have played for free for dozens of hours.

1000s!

Because, you know, pirates are those wonderful kinds of respectful, decent human beings that would do that sort of thing.

So quick to judge and generalize lol.

Pirates just need to be more patient. It's much easier to not get screwed in your download when you go for a 6 month old torrent. That's what I've heard from others that is...

I would say its hit or miss, depending on the title. I've heard from a friend too that he downloaded a 2012 title just a month ago and got a nasty email.

 

[Authority]

Kinda off-topic but what do you consider uploading music/movies/shows/series/anime/cartoons on youtube?

Also something interesting,

A study commissioned by the Swiss government has found that the country's current piracy laws, which allow downloading of stuff for "personal use", should stay. Because they actually encourage people to buy more stuff.

Credits to - These Guys Think Piracy Is OK, Because It Leads to Sales

 

[Crimsonsky]

Nevermind, didn't read the whole thread.