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Watch_Dogs Torrent secretly installing a Bitcoin miner on thousands of computers
- Thread starter Radec
- Start date
what "publishers think" would be irrelevant even if it wasnt a strawman, which it is.
They have their rights, you have yours, attempts to rationalize why its totally ok to infringe on those rights just seems desperate and scummy
I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time invid and others have chose to target me indiscriminately or use gendered insults against me. We can be free to disagree but calling someone a cunt is pretty much crossing the line.
Nydius
Member
And I'd tell them they're full of shit. Buying used can only happen if there's a large enough market who have bought new. In addition, each of those new copies have already been paid for by the retailers, even if they don't sell. The fact that they're on the shelf in a retail shop means that product has been sold by the publisher through to the retail channel. The publisher already got paid and the onus of making the money back on the purchase lies with the retailer.
This is a red herring. You're conflating subjective replay value with retail value. How much I value I derive from repeatedly listening to something, watching something, or playing something is largely irrelevant to the market value of a product. In several months time the going price for a new game will be markedly less regardless of subjective value. Hell, I got a physical copy of COD Ghosts for $19.99 on sale at Walmart two weeks ago despite the fact that Activision still has the digital version sitting at $59.99 on Steam. Assuming I get as much playtime out of the title as someone who bought it for $59.99, am I robbing the publishers of profits? No, because my subjective value isn't tied, at all, to the amount they got paid for my purchase.
WHOA, did you just stumble upon a new "Free2Play" model, I would totally support developers this way.
SuperEpicGuy
Banned
I'm not taking any sides to this discussion or anything but taking something from someone versus duplicating it is different. Kind of like if you had an expensive vase and I stole it versus I copied that vase that you worked hard on.
No it doesn't.
balgajo
Member
I agree with you because.
staticneuron
Member
A game about hacking that was supposedly hacked and then distributed, turns out to be a fake release that when people use it, hacks their system to mine bitcoins.
Pretty ironic if you ask me. (Situational Irony, look it up)
Puppet Shadow
Member
Finished you post for ya.
That's not what the original poster was claiming was ironic. He was saying because he used to pirate, that his first post on Gaf being in a thread about piracy was ironic.
You committed intellectual property theft. Look it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft
In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.
patent/trademark/copyright infringement are not theft, despite the best efforts of the IP cartels to hammer their favored version of the law into everyone's heads
You have deprived that person of his intellectual property.
The FBI disagrees with you: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/white_collar/ipr/ipr
rocketskates
Member
Exactly. Arguments are fine and all, that's a natural part of any discussions but a personal insult like that is definitely uncalled for and absolutely crossing the line.
balgajo
Member
Could be a argument anyway. Even though the existence of them are debatable.
staticneuron
Member
Sucks for the kids with no income, but for people who should know better... yeah, it's kind of justified. I got really annoyed at my friend the other day for pirating Transistor. What a shitty thing to do, especially for an indie game. :/
This is why you should buy your games, I guess.
This is why you should buy your games, I guess.
no, you have deprived them of hypothetical profits they may have made by selling you a license to their IP
if the FBI arrested me for piracy i would not be charged with larceny
The sad thing are the usual suspects cheering him on like it's a good thing that he simply put down a dumb "cunt". I may not have a popular, friendly opinion but I don't think I'm saying anything that warrants that type of response.
No you haven't, the IP is still theirs.
Wouldn't it look pretty bad for Ubisoft if they were caught distributing bitcoin mining malware anyway? I don't think they would do that. I know everyone likes to laugh at the pirates but it wouldn't show well on Ubisoft for rolling in the mud with them, so to speak.
They no longer have the exclusive rights on how to distribute their IP, so yes, you have stolen their IP.
balgajo
Member
Is FBI opinion universal law?
Brazil broke medicine patents in order to low their price and make them affordable for the poor population. It's another take on the matter.
Duallusion
Member
What exactly is your opinion on piracy, if you don't mind me asking?
And other countries use pirated software on their PCs. What is your point?
InFamousRaiden
Banned
WIN
rocketskates
Member
I would think that with this being GAF, people are well aware of what's allowed/cool to say and what's definitely not. So for people to be saying:
is actually mindblowing.
But as others have said, piracy discussions on here are ridiculous. There are discussions about music leaks, downloading porn, and those are generally fine and no one gets their pitchforks out.
With discussions about game leaks, THEN the people get their pitchforks out and are ready to lynch anyone who isn't specifically ANTI-PIRACY. It's funny.
i think he's saying that legal != moral and laws aren't the same everywhere?
Yup like not friendly at all, you just called a guy opinion ridiculous shit a while ago.
balgajo
Member
What FBI claims as theft could not be theft in other places. It's relative and still debatable.
Most of us here are discussing by a moral perspective.
No problems on that statement. Legal and moral are different. The moral justification for downloading games is even harder to do though.
In which case Brazil is an awful example. They were one of the first countries to come up with IP rights. Their breaking of US patents is more of a economical sanction against the US than anything else.
Luckily Brazil also has IP theft laws, and the link you posted is part of economic sanctions against the US, not some stance on IP laws.
rocketskates
Member
1. Your opinion is ridiculous.
2. You are a cunt.
Do those seem equally offensive to you?
If you want to talk about whether it's "theft" or not, it merely depends on what you think you're stealing (or not stealing, as the case may be).
It's not the game you're stealing. That's just a digital copy. What you are stealing are the company's profits from that copy had you purchased it instead. That's hard currency right there.
That's actually why I boycott Gamestop. By buying a used copy of a game, I'm effectively "stealing" it from the publisher/developer because they get absolutely none of the money that I paid for it. Hence, I always buy new. If it's worth spending money on a game, it's at least worth giving that money to the people that made it.
It's not the game you're stealing. That's just a digital copy. What you are stealing are the company's profits from that copy had you purchased it instead. That's hard currency right there.
That's actually why I boycott Gamestop. By buying a used copy of a game, I'm effectively "stealing" it from the publisher/developer because they get absolutely none of the money that I paid for it. Hence, I always buy new. If it's worth spending money on a game, it's at least worth giving that money to the people that made it.
As far as video games are concerned? I think it's a fair problem in some cases, and in others a boogeyman that publishers and game developers use as an excuse to wrestle more control away from consumers. I also think it's a problem that won't be solved until the publishers and IP owners provide more services that are more convenient than pirating. Netflix and Steam are good steps forward but it does not beat free, as many people have pointed out.
Piracy is also a problem that will never really go away as long an exchange of information and goods exists. Publishers tried to use a hammer rather than think it out and draconian disc DRM came out of that environment. I don't know the solution because piracy, bootlegs, IP theft and so on are issues that existed long before video games.
in this particular case i would argue that IP laws are heavily tilted in favor of the bigger, more powerful countries and enable exploitation of poorer ones
brazil ignoring pressure from american IP industries to give medicine to poor people is morally correct
Symax
Member
Of course it did. Someone started arguing about the definition of theft and gaming piracy on neogaf. Some people just want see the world burn.
balgajo
Member
Where did I implied it's not a crime in Brazil?
Just said that the sanction was a crime by FBI's perspective and still a right moral decision from Brazil's perspective.
Here's a thread about the word cunt, and in the words of the administrator:
Which I tend to agree with especially when it comes to rationalizing piracy. Although implanting bit coin miners is ingenious if not ironic
He compared software piracy to, what was it, justifying humanity's crimes or something? I'm not sure how that isn't ridiculous.
Brazil is one of the bigger, more powerful countries. It is the seventh largest economy.
It is, and it isn't. Making medicine for poor people is a good thing, but the research for medicine is also really expensive. That entire industry needs a reform with research into medicine being taken out of the private domain to be really effective. Brazil however isn't making a stand on that. They're more than happy to support their own IP holders and IP holders from other countries. It is part of a sanction against the US.
It is not a moral stance, it is an economic sanction against the US.
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