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[Rupe]

As a gay guy i agree with some of it but not all of it. I guess i'm part of those guys who don't think they belong to a community, at least culturally. Community wise i have mostly gay friends so there is that, but i certainly don't have anything in common with any sort of community in term of clothing, musical taste, or anything. I would find that a problem if i watched tv shows in relation with my sexuality as you say. At least not everyone lives his sexuality like that.

Now about the matter, hm.. Well in my position, yeah i also like homosexual characters to be showed as "nothing special", meaning yes ok they are gay, that doesn't have to change everything about them.

I also understand the idea that maybe straight people who say that just want them the most invisible they can. Maybe, i don't know, i generally hear gay people saying that more than straight people. So i'm surprised about that statement.

There should be nothing wrong with both representation i guess. Stereotyped, culturally charged gay character and subtle one, cause both exists.

Yeah this is where I stand, both representations are ok and needed, I also understand the frustration of people when facing with comments that her gayness should be subdued. It feels like pandering to a straight audience that is uncomfortable with actually being different people in the world. That being said, your point stands, we need both; characters like Dumbledore, where his orientation only informed about his loneliness and latter his heartbreak; or the cast of Looking where their orientation defines a lot of their social interaction.
With all of this I'd love to see an unapologetic flamboyant straight man. I really don't care how, but I really like that image in my head.

 

[Madame M]

GUYS I'M NOT A HOMOPHOBE, IT'S JUST THAT THOSE DAMN GAYS ARE ALWAYS OUT TO GET ME

GUYS I'M NOT A HOMOPHOBE, BUT ALL THOSE DAMN GAYS ARE PEDOPHILES, SEX AND AGE ARE THE SAME THIGN RIGHT??

 

[Glass Rebel]

Well I came into the thread just to say that to me personally it doesnt matter if a character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun.

Gay or straight, who cares it's a video game. Will it be fun to play? That's all that should matter.

Stop lying.

 

[bishoptl]

Well I came into the thread just to say that to me personally it doesnt matter if a character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun.

I got called a homophobe as you would expect.

I made a comment that being called a homophobe for wanting a game to be fun above all else is like having something tbat you love taken away from you and turned into something different. Probably went s bit far with the native American thing but hey it was written out of frustration.

All in all the response I got was pretty much what I've come to expect these days from the internet.

You're not a victim here.

 

[Platy]

You know what is the sad part about avoiding lesbian stereotypes ?

We will never have a badass woman killing zombies with a double headed axe =(

 

[Inviusx]

You're on a video game forum, no one gives a shit that you play a video game for the gameplay

The fuck are you talking about? Is "video game forum" code for something else?

 

[ChoklitCow]

Left Behind was what took The Last of Us and made it my favorite game of all time and put it into a next-level narrative that I share with friends that don't even play with video games. It wasn't just because it touched upon a lesbian relationship in the video games medium, but it was because it occurs during such a pivotal time for so many LGBTQ youth as well. And handled so well to boot. Articles like this are also why I'm so hyped for the game, and based on the writing in Left Behind I wouldn't be shocked if we are able to dive more into Ellie's personal life as this unfolds--really worried about the "hate" narrative though. I would love if this expands. The story that Schreier shared on the first page? Chills.

Look. I'm a straight, cis, white male that has the fortunate experience to work with college students every day and these stories are so common it is terrifying. Students that struggle to identify what makes them different from their peers, that makes them feel "unwhole", that makes them not connect with the roles with which they were predisposed. And while often because where I come from (shit, I'm from the smallest, whitest town you can possibly come from) you wouldn't think I could relate to these exploring individuals, somehow I'm lucky enough that I get to share in their experiences as they develop their new identities on campus. Many times the conversations start up thanks to the media we consume, so opportunities like this are ab-so-fucking-lutely needed.

The opportunity to witness a well-developed, strong lead in a AAA release could have monumental consequences for the community not only in regards to games as a medium but in regards to self-image and personal identity development, and I legitimately do not believe that to be hyperbole (as there has been a correlation found in other forms of media).

I understand the "as long as it's not shoved down our throats" comments and where they come from. I get the hesitation as when you are so used to heterosexual relationships consistently occurring in all form of media 24/7 you don't even realize they are happening half of the time. However the premise of limiting something you "think" will impact your enjoyment of a game (let's be real, the same emotional story telling will exist regardless of sexual preference) versus continuing an already amazing story line for people within the LGBTQ community (and us that just really loved a damn good love story) seems silly.

Overall, good article. Sucks a lot of people always end up banned for their comments rather than having the opportunity to have a better venue to be educated in these threads. I always wonder if that helps or just pushes them more into their convictions? Sad that people get so inflammatory regarding this as well, but its obviously understandable when it involves such a vital part of human nature as our identity and sexuality.

That being said, be better to each other in the conversations as well. I don't know anyone that has ever helped, educated, or persuaded another person by being pretentious.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Here's an older interview that Neil did with GayGamer (the website is down now) discussing Ellie

Is Ellie gay?

Druckmann: “Now when I was writing it I was writing it I was writing it with the idea that Ellie is gay, and when the actresses were working they were definitely working with the idea that they’re both attracted to each other. That was the subtext and intention that they were playing with from the opening cinematic when they’re holding each other’s hands for too long, or when Riley bites her on the neck; there’s that chemistry there from the get go that was important for us so that we earned that moment when they kissed each other. So that it wasn’t just out of the blue but also wasn’t so overt that you’re like “Oh of course. Just get on with it.”

“At the photo booth and the awkward moment there when they almost kiss, the way Riley calls Ellie her ‘girl’, these things could be taken either way but for me the sum of their parts is pretty clear.”

With the newfound knowledge that Ellie is gay I asked if there was anything from the original game that one might see in a new light.

“Only in as far as whenever she’s talking about Riley or talking about the arcade. Now you know there’s more weight to it…and the end when she tells Joel she lost her best friend I feel for her more because I know how happy she was.

Another moment is in the ranch house when Joel scolds Ellie and tells her she doesn’t know what loss is.

Druckmann: I asked someone who is gay on the team questions about experiences they’ve had, or what they would find offensive or not offensive. Likewise with female characters I’d ask the women on the team their advice or for personal experiences to draw from when writing.

I think the biggest thing that helps us is that none of it is a big deal. Maybe it’s because we’re in LA where none of it is a big deal. We didn’t approach it from the standpoint of “Let’s make a point. Let’s take our protagonist and make her gay.”

It wasn’t always a sure thing that Ellie would be gay, though. Druckmann revealed that at one point wondered how making her gay would be perceived, from all sides.

“One thing gave me pause and almost made me not want to do it. People talked about how Ellie is this really strong character so are we doing too much with her? She’s already a tomboy so by making her gay are we saying that all tomboys are gay? I see some of those comments now, but that wasn’t our intention.

 

[Alienfan]

Man coming here was a mistake, I get wayed to triggered here.

Naughty Dog I hope someone there is reading this. As a gay man whose face literally lit up at Korra and Asami HOLDING HANDS, I appreciate greatly whenever there is LGBTQ representation. I loved that you introduced characters in TLOU whom were gay and yes they were subdued but I hope you don't get the wrong impression that to be "good" gay is to be subdued.

I do believe some of the posters here aren't ass-hats, but are just ignorant, because they have been fairly represented their entire lives, they don't understand how much of a big deal it is to some or why it matters. The best analogy I could come up with is its a feeling akin to seeing your home town/country name dropped on TV, it's something that people from larger countries that are represented in media all the time won't be familiar with, but coming from New Zealand I can tell you everyone gets really excited when it happens.

 

[Crossing Eden]

The fuck are you talking about? Is "video game forum" code for something else?

It's coded language for "everyone here who posts regularly more than likely cares very much about the gameplay of a game." Why do you feel the need to state the obvious?

 

[majik13]

Just realized I never played Left Behind, I only played TLoU on PS3, can I jump straight to Left Behind on TLoU Remaster?

 

[Smoolio]

I feel like if they do a relationship there will be heavy bury your gays and/or women in refrigerators, hopefully they will subvert these tropes. Not play into them anyway because they think their writing is good enough to surpass, like certain writers of The 100 did.

Would be so epic if it was super dark and tense all the way through with the most cathartic subversive happy ending ever.

 

[Qblivion]

God I'm fucking sick of straight people constantly trying to shove their agenda down everyone's throat. Get it through your thick fucking skulls that representation matters and fuck off.

 

[Interframe]

Well I came into the thread just to say that to me personally it doesnt matter if a character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun.

I got called a homophobe as you would expect.

I made a comment that being called a homophobe for wanting a game to be fun above all else is like having something tbat you love taken away from you and turned into something different. Probably went s bit far with the native American thing but hey it was written out of frustration.

All in all the response I got was pretty much what I've come to expect these days from the internet.

Haha, I like how you treat being called a homophobe as some sort of form of oppression that will affect your day-to-day life, as opposed to sympathizing with actual oppressed groups of people who live in a world that constantly reminds them how they are not normal and will not be treated equally.

Funny how privilege convinces privileged people that they are somehow the ones that are the oppressed victims.

 

[Inviusx]

It's coded language for "everyone here who posts regularly more than likely cares very much about the gameplay of a game." Why do you feel the need to state the obvious?

That is such a ridiculous statement I dont even know what to say.

 

[tintin1029]

Just realized I never played Left Behind, I only played TLoU on PS3, can I jump straight to Left Behind on TLoU Remaster?

Absolutely

 

[beelulzebub]

Well I came into the thread just to say that to me personally it doesnt matter if a character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun.

I got called a homophobe as you would expect.

I made a comment that being called a homophobe for wanting a game to be fun above all else is like having something tbat you love taken away from you and turned into something different. Probably went s bit far with the native American thing but hey it was written out of frustration.

All in all the response I got was pretty much what I've come to expect these days from the internet.

You're making this thread more and more about yourself the more you continue to post here. You really should just walk away. And when you do, drop the persecution complex and take at least a moment to reflect upon why everyone reacted to your words here the way they did.

 

[Crossing Eden]

That is such a ridiculous statement I dont even know what to say.

It's a ridiculous notion that the people who'd sign up for a video game forum care about gameplay? Yea no, you know what's ridiculous, seeing a thread about representation and coming in to inform everyone that you don't care about the issue and then having the gall to compare rightful backlash to assholish behavior to the plight of native Americans. While simultaneously projecting by stating that an incredibly benign OT that is supportive of the idea of a LBGT protagonist=fuck straight people.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

While LGBT representation is great and I'm all for it, straight female playable protagonists with male love interests are somehow even rarer (seems like they're either gay or asexual), so I'd be totally cool with her hooking up with some dude in TLoU2, if only to make some manbabies squirm.

"You know her being gay is great and all BUT... wouldn't it be better if she were straight and or bi because it'd suit my childish agenda instead of being a progressive character that lesbians could look up to???"

 

[Ghazi]

You're on a video game forum, no one gives a shit that you play a video game for the gameplay, going through your post history you never feel the need to mention how much you care solely about gameplay and nothin else. It's almost like there's a correlation between the fact that this thread is about representation and some very outdated mindset and way overused diversionary tactics from letting people even think about discussion representation and equality. EVERYONE EXPECTS A GAME TO HAVE GOOD GAMEPLAY. You aren't a special snowflake who is the only one thinking "gee I hope this game has good gameplay."

https://youtu.be/y-AA8DjQzcw

This is the worst thread I have read on this site, you guys should feel bad.

 

[halrik]

what does that even mean? that she has sex with a lot of women? i wouldn't mind.

also it's the post-apocalypse so she probably wouldn't wear a flowery summer dress now would she?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Here's an older interview that Neil did with GayGamer (the website is down now) discussing Ellie

Thanks for the interview quotes. I think their intent was definitely a normalization angle in left behind. But its also undeniable Ellie has become a symbol for the LGBT community on gay characters, so how they approach her in TLOU 2 will be very interesting to see.

I'm sure whatever they do, they will handle it with care and inoffensiveness to the LGBT community

 

[Sai-kun]

lmfao i came for the straight tears and was not disappointed.

i hope she's queer as fuck too. i know she won't be, but it's nice to want things, right?

also i will forever laugh at the folks who played Left Behind and still think "she can't be gay! she's too young!"

yall are crazy

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

It's interesting where ND is going these days from representation and diversity. I thought what TLOU did in this regard with Bill where it was there but not at the forefront was clever, and refreshing. I also thought where they went with Ellie was also very good. And now we see what they're up to with Nadine and Chloe. I fully expect their next game will be a new IP and star a female African American woman.

As for TLOU part 2 once I learned it was the return of the two main characters I already got my wish of playing Ellie. Seeing her in the trailer I would have been disappointed if she was in sidekick mode again. And since she is the main character if they want to go more into her sexuality go for it. What is known of the game is so little it could be anything. I think if they did a similar open as the first one where you see Ellie with a SO in a happy home that turns to shit due to the fireflies. That could be super powerful.

 

[admartian]

Eh, as long as it (any form of media) fits I don't care what it is. And "fits" doesn't even necessarily mean to be "good".

 

[Crossing Eden]

https://youtu.be/y-AA8DjQzcw

What is idiotic about that statement? You're saying it smart or ok that your only reaction to the issue of LBGT representation is to tell everyone posting on a game forum that you're just in it for the gameplay? Again, think about the context of that statement, and why it only comes up whenever the issue specifically is about anything having to do with hypothetical positive portrayals of minorities, and people who're LBGT. How often do you see people say "I only care about the gameplay" when devs talk about heterosexual romances, or anything having to do with a games stories or themes if they have nothing to with minorities, women, and LBGT people? Or better yet, it's absolutely easy to state "I just care about gameplay" when you're CONSTANTLY being represented and this, don't have to use your brain as much to think about the hypotheticals of it.

 

[Madame M]

Make your own character tools need more feather boa options as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Fat4all]

Make your own character tools need more feather boa options as far as I'm concerned.

In this regard the Saints Row series was unmatched

 

[Madame M]

In this regard the Saints Row series was unmatched

Damn straight!

 

[Kinyou]

Here's an older interview that Neil did with GayGamer (the website is down now) discussing Ellie

One thing gave me pause and almost made me not want to do it. People talked about how Ellie is this really strong character so are we doing too much with her? She’s already a tomboy so by making her gay are we saying that all tomboys are gay? I see some of those comments now, but that wasn’t our intention.

It's good to hear that they are aware of things like that but then can also decide to do it anyway. Like if Ellie has a SO and they kill her it would fall straight into the hated trope where gay relationships end with death, but they might do it anyway in favor of the overall story

 

[Zocano]

"You know her being gay is great and all BUT... wouldn't it be better if she were straight and or bi because it'd suit my childish agenda instead of being a progressive character that lesbians could look up to???"

actual heterosexual relationships for *PLAYABLE* female leads can be just as progressive????

There is kind of a clear and obvious avoidance of male romantic interests for the playable lead character.

 

[Madame M]

Sorry I shouldn't have said "damn straight" it might trigger a straight person I need to be more "woke" to the plight of the straight person

 

[admartian]

What is idiotic about that statement? You're saying it smart or ok that your only reaction to the issue of LBGT representation is to tell everyone posting on a game forum that you're just in it for the gameplay? Again, think about the context of that statement, and why it only comes up whenever the issue specifically is about anything having to do with hypothetical positive portrayals of minorities, and people who're LBGT. How often do you see people say "I only care about the gameplay" when devs talk about heterosexual romances, or anything having to do with a games stories or themes if they have nothing to with minorities, women, and LBGT people? Or better yet, it's absolutely easy to state "I just care about gameplay" when you're CONSTANTLY being represented and this, don't have to use your brain as much to think about the hypotheticals of it.

Devil's advocate: As a person that belongs in a 'group' that is not at all "constantly represented" - I care mostly about gameplay/fun/entertainment.

That's not to say I'm against more representation of different people. Personally I think it would be nice that the main protagonist of Sleeping Dogs wasn't just an Asian-American dude stereotypically cast as a taekwondo/karate expert set in Hong Kong.

I personally feel representation should be more "invisible" than "overt" (like Danielle is seemingly proposing). E.g. Pakistani dude instead of Joel - no over the top explanations or explanations as to why he is Pakistani etc. Or Corvo looking more like Steven Yeun instead of generic brooding white guy look 101.

Basically, I prefer it more like Nadine from UC4 - just a woman who's from South African and is black. Obviously if there's a specific story to be told within a context that needs to explain certain circumstances, then of course go for the whole theme and all that goes with it.


TL;DR: Make minority/LGBTQ representation as 'invisible 'as generic white sexbomb/jockdude.

 

[Council Pop]

I haven't read the entire thread so I am assuming this will have been mentioned at some point, but just to reiterate:

Any positive representations of gay people in any sort of creative medium is great, but especially in video games, which has been an incredibly homophobic art form in the past.

However, we have to be aware of opportunism, faux-sincerity, and most importantly in this case, the fetishisation of lesbianism.

You can't really compare this to something like LGBT cinema, which has a deep history of struggle for LGBT rights (in times much more difficult than 2016), showing LGBT narratives, and being an outlet for LGBT creativity. There's nothing wrong with some straight developers (or even queer developers who aren't involved in LGBT activism), making a character in a video game gay. But it will never mean the same thing as when someone who is from a specifically LGBT arts background does it. Steven Lavelle's games as Increpare are a great example of modern LGBT game development.

There is a narrative trope that equates female friendship with homosexuality, in a way that is rarely if ever applied to close male friendship. We saw it in Life is Strange too- it can perpetuate the false idea that if you're female, you're always secretly in love with your best friend. This denies emotional flexibility to women, it shuts down the possibility of women have a platonic best friend and being gay, it feeds male fantasies about all women secretly wanting to have sex with each other, and it positions women as constantly having a romantic role in every narrative.

I'm not saying that this was the case with Left Behind, although to be honest I thought that Chloe and Max's relationship in Life Is Strange was a bit more developed, romantically speaking, than that of Ellie and Riley. But I think Naughty Dog's writers are really excellent, and that if Last of Us 2 tackles LGBT issues, it will do it sincerely and with complete clarity. I just wanted to point out that it's not just a case of homophobic people vs. people who want LGBT representation in games- in the latter category, there needs to be a debate about how that representation happens, and who it represents. It can't just be a top down thing, where LGBT characters are inserted into a narrative (the whole 'make Elsa from Frozen gay!' thing is an example of this). We need more, and higher budget, queer games, made by queer auteurs, as only this can truly represent queer life.

Also, on a personal level, I'd like to see a game featuring an effeminate male gay character, who doesn't 'earn respect' by acting macho at some point, and who isn't a figure of fun.

I'm queer btw. I hope everyone gets what I'm saying in this post. No disrespect meant to anyone x

 

[kikonawa]

What the hell is super gay?

like in farting rainbows and pissing unicorns i guess

 

[Phamit]

Well the game won't turn in to a soap opera because Ellie may find a other Girl she likes, so it wouldn't be much of a problem, but I don't know if I would call this "super gay".

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

What I find ironic about the predictable "Game-play should be the only thing that matters" crowd is that they're speaking out of both sides of it's mouth given that TLOU is also put on pedestal for having one of the "best" video game stories and writing. You can't have it both ways, propping up the game to be some type of gold standard in video game story telling while retreating to "But the game-play is what's most important" at the prospect of a character's sexuality being more deeply explored.

 

[tintin1029]

The Last of Us Part 2 |OT| Rainbow Edition

 

[Experien]

I am not opposed to this and Left Behind did lend itself to it but I don't think you have a whole lot of clothing choices in the post-apocalypse world.

 

[Audioboxer]

Given the confines of the world TLoU has created/depicted it's probably going to be quite restritictive as any sort of bastion of positive emotion.

This isn't to say love cannot bloom on a battlefield but did you guys complete TLoU, see the ending and then see the trailer for TLoU part 2 and hear Druckmann says it's getting even darker?

Yeah... This is going to be about death, depression, chaos, possibly revenge and most likely a lack of hope.

Left Behind was great to explore more of Ellie in a lighter tone, but this game as an overall package is a sequel to TLoU, not a prequel. It's only getting darker from here Well, I can't wait, but as Danganronpa puts it bring on the fucking despair.

A few posts in this topic are disappointing, Ellie is a great character and ND know what they are doing, but as is the aggression and snark that continues to constantly come from some GAF posters.

 

[psyfi]

Well I came into the thread just to say that to me personally it doesnt matter if a character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun.

I got called a homophobe as you would expect.

I made a comment that being called a homophobe for wanting a game to be fun above all else is like having something tbat you love taken away from you and turned into something different. Probably went s bit far with the native American thing but hey it was written out of frustration.

All in all the response I got was pretty much what I've come to expect these days from the internet.

Could you be any more out of touch with reality? Next time someone remarks on how "SJWs are just tryna be offended" I'm going to link them to this post.

 

[Tuck]

Man, I'm sick of straight people's discomfort with queer people being masqueraded (especially to themselves) as progressive concern. Two things I want to say about this:

1. As a gay person, I'm really annoyed by the sentiment that gay characters' sexuality should just be a "sublte" trait that "doesn't define them." My sexuality absolutely friggin defines me. I think about the fact that I'm gay literally every single day. It defines who I love, the TV shows and comics I find myself drawn to, how I relate to society, what my politics are, how I view myself- my insecurities and my pride. It defines how people treat me. And It defines the community I find myself in, who my friends are and what my dating pool is- and our communities absolutely come to define us as people.

And this idea that our sexuality shouldn't define us is also a bullshit double-standard, because straight characters are allowed to have their sexuality define them all the time and nobody complains about it. straight people in the real world too. Straight people talk about their sexuality *all the time* and yet nobody complains that they are "letting" it define them. The only reason straight people don't realize how much your sexuality defines you is because you're all surrounded by people just like you. And when I see people say that gay characters like Ellie can't be too in-your-face, that her sexuality should be "sublte" like some kind of footnote in the textbook of her life, all I see is heterosexuals being uncomfortable.

I'm gay and being gay does not define me, at least not fully. It's just one aspect of who I am.

This varies person to person, so I must disagree with you on this.

I'd much rather a subtle approach than them checking boxes to make a character seem stereotypically gay.

 

[Theanine3D]

As a gay guy i agree with some of it but not all of it. I guess i'm part of those guys who don't think they belong to a community, at least culturally. Community wise i have mostly gay friends so there is that, but i certainly don't have anything in common with any sort of community in term of clothing, musical taste, or anything. I would find that a problem if i watched tv shows in relation with my sexuality as you say. At least not everyone lives his sexuality like that.

Now about the matter, hm.. Well in my position, yeah i also like homosexual characters to be showed as "nothing special", meaning yes ok they are gay, that doesn't have to change everything about them.

I also understand the idea that maybe straight people who say that just want them the most invisible they can. Maybe, i don't know, i generally hear gay people saying that more than straight people. So i'm surprised about that statement.

There should be nothing wrong with both representation i guess. Stereotyped, culturally charged gay character and subtle one, cause both exists.

My thoughts exactly

This is why I liked Bill in TLOU.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

That's cool. Left behind was definitely a unique experience. Whether they keep her sexuailty a subtle plot point or make it plot tevelavet I hope the character stays true and the story is good. I'm just glad we're slowly moving past white man lead in AAA game space, even if the cliché is kicking and screaming as it goes.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I guess the more I think about it, the more indifferent I am. She's got a sAssy mouth that's for sure. Her being gay could work just fine. I don't mind her having a girlfriend. I just don't care to see the storyline focus too much on relationship building outside of survival. What makes Joel and Ellie great is that the age gap was never going to develop into something romantic. I'll value their friendship more than any new romantic interest.

 

[Seloth]

I agree. I want good GAMEPLAY over anything else.

Wrong franchise

To add to the subject matter though I am sure there are plenty of narrative options for them to consider in terms of the real struggles homosexual people deal with every day and make that the focus of at least some part of the story.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that the entire story has to be about someone's sexuality.

 

[Dandy Lyin]

Well I came into the thread just to say that to me personally it doesnt matter if a character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun.

I got called a homophobe as you would expect.

I made a comment that being called a homophobe for wanting a game to be fun above all else is like having something tbat you love taken away from you and turned into something different. Probably went s bit far with the native American thing but hey it was written out of frustration.

All in all the response I got was pretty much what I've come to expect these days from the internet.

It gets better.™

 

[psyfi]

Let's just have lots of queer people of every variety in every video game, then we can stop worrying about whether they're Obvious Gay or Subtle Gay.

This isn't a joke btw.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Man, I'm sick of straight people's discomfort with queer people being masqueraded (especially to themselves) as progressive concern. Two things I want to say about this:

1. As a gay person, I'm really annoyed by the sentiment that gay characters' sexuality should just be a "sublte" trait that "doesn't define them." My sexuality absolutely friggin defines me. I think about the fact that I'm gay literally every single day. It defines who I love, the TV shows and comics I find myself drawn to, how I relate to society, what my politics are, how I view myself- my insecurities and my pride. It defines how people treat me. And It defines the community I find myself in, who my friends are and what my dating pool is- and our communities absolutely come to define us as people.

And this idea that our sexuality shouldn't define us is also a bullshit double-standard, because straight characters are allowed to have their sexuality define them all the time and nobody complains about it. straight people in the real world too. Straight people talk about their sexuality *all the time* and yet nobody complains that they are "letting" it define them. The only reason straight people don't realize how much your sexuality defines you is because you're all surrounded by people just like you. And when I see people say that gay characters like Ellie can't be too in-your-face, that her sexuality should be "sublte" like some kind of footnote in the textbook of her life, all I see is heterosexuals being uncomfortable.

It would be presumptuous of me to say that I "disagree" with your statement as your feelings are your own; it is your right to feel defined by your sexuality. My feelings could not be any more different however.

I am not DEFINED by being a gay man. I am a man who, as fate would have it, happens to be gay and I absolutely fucking love it. But the idea of my entire life being defined by my sexuality is quite frankly terrifying.

This surpasses ideas like "queens" or "flaming" or "straight-like" as stereotypes within the community itself. Do I not have enough confidence in my representation as person, not as a gay person, but a just a person, that I feel my sexuality must be some sort of aura that is apparent to all who see or interact with me? Absolutely not.

Similarly, the idea that homosexual representation in videogames cannot be subtle or that representations that are not overtly or quite clearly gay is straight fear mongering just seems off.

Whilst I have no problem whatsoever with characters who portray their sexuality more flamboyantly than others (there is no WRONG way to be gay), I have to say that having slightly more nuanced, less pronounced gay characters has its merits as well.

Ellie will be what she will be. If her character development dictates that her sexuality be at the forefront of her growth and her story, wonderful. If her sexuality is merely a facet of her as a person and is organically weaved into her growth and her story, wonderful.

Just my thoughts!

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

A lot of 'gameplay matters most' comments here and it's a legitimate concern - I mean I can imagine the Digital Foundry review now:

"There were noticeable frame drops throughout and visible dithering along most edges. This is disappointing following ND's technical showing on Uncharted 4 and we imagine some of this is due to Ellie being written as a full-on lesbian rather than plausible bi-curious teen."

As a straight white male I have no issue with ND making Ellie as gay they see fit - hell, it'd be a welcome break from the norm.