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[Stripper13]

I honestly don't get all the "boo gaming journalism" battlecries. It's this way because of us. Let's think about this.

• We want great and accurate video game coverage
• We also want it as soon as humanly possible
• We support the gaming sites & publications that give it to us first
• Sites & publications know they need to be first a fair amount of time to get clicks and a big following
• Therefore sites & publications enter into crossroads deals with publishers to get the scoop first
• Publisher wont give you a scoop first if you're going to trash their shit to smithereens
• We complain because shit wasnt trashed to smithereens when it should have been
• Yet we refuse to wait until a game actually releases to get real honest to god reporting
• So we feed the monster

Thank you. This is insightful and more what I was looking for.

You're right - we do feed it. I would have hoped that there would be A site out there that just dealt in truths at this point though. Who didn't get wrapped up in PR nonsense and marketing-deals and called out bullshit when it popped up. NeoGAF is the closest thing that I've found.

 

[qa_engineer]

Bravo. Someone mentioned this before and I'll repeat it again: Gaming journalism in its current state is nothing more than glorified PR.

 

[njean777]

What obligates them to appease a bunch of maniacal fans?

Just because a bunch of fat people show up an hour before MacDonald's opens doesn't mean they have to let them in early.

Umm we are their base and our clicks pay their paychecks. Also your example is not even near what we are discussing. So please stay on topic.

 

[IrishNinja]

I agree. This industry needs more transparency.

for real, NPD data alone used to be more interesting. compared to other entertainment mediums (movies, music etc) it's pretty crazy.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Bullshit.

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that there is a slew of websites/channels that are designed specifically to cover this industry, least of all the most significant event since the 360/PS3/Wii launches.

I will vote with my dollar - as we all will... but that doesn't change the fact that the journalists, developers and platform holders have all turned into marketers with duplicate messages. I don't think, in 2013 and all of the information at my fingertips - that I should have to go and rent the XB1 and it's software to compare it to X/Y. Not when there are people getting paid good money to try/test/cover this as a profession.

I like how you use yourself as a source.

Nobody is forcing you to buy these things at launch. Wait. Honestly, wait a goddamn week. Everything you could dream of knowing will be publicly available by every enterprising blogger, Youtuber, and Twitter user online.
But wait! You don't even need to wait a week. The review embargos are up ten days before launch, and in the rush for clicks - you'll get every bit of information you could crave. Hundreds of hours of footage.

 

[Stripper13]

I think you're missing the main point his post in the post you linked - you're being a little impatient. If you were an informed customer that care enough about making sure the product was perfectly what you wanted you'd wait until the products were out and reviewed and tested before you'd buy it.

Absolutely - and I will wait for all of the information to be available before I plonk my money down.

It doesn't change the fact that the industry is beyond a joke in terms of secrecy and PR spin. Presumably I would be much more informed 3-4 weeks out from launch if some of the industry players were not afraid to mention a negative or questionable element for fear of exclusion from future events.

 

[RurouniZel]

I think you're missing the main point his post in the post you linked - you're being a little impatient. If you were an informed customer that care enough about making sure the product was perfectly what you wanted you'd wait until the products were out and reviewed and tested before you'd buy it.

Most tech industries don't hide information like technical specs of their new gadgets before their releases. Take any smartphone and we know well in advance if it's sporting a 64-bit A7 chip or a dual-core Snap Dragon, the screen resolution, the material it's made of, the features, etc. etc. As another example, we also knew what Blu-Ray and HD-DVD could do well before they launched.

I agree that reviews typically don't come on products until the day they're released (or maybe the prior day), but those only review how those products perform in real-world application. They are not a sudden reveal of their inner capabilities.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Being open and transparent shouldn't "Threaten their livelihood". That's the point. When Vanity Faire writer writes and article about gwenyth paltrow cheating on her husband, he doesn't get black balled. When a political writer exposes a story, or writes an article that paints the white house and/or Obama in a bad light, they don't lose their livelihood. That's the problem.

Cool, get people to care more about the practices of game companies more than than the latest score of the game franchise they love and this will changed. Until then, it'll remain the same, because nobodies going to boycott "X site" for firing person Y when they announce an exclusive look at Hot Franchise Z the next week.

 

[Dio]

It's not just the game industry. Investigative, even regular journalism is a dying art and no one wants to work in any sort of journalism. The new outlets now are people's blogs and websites, no one wants magazines or newspapers like they used to. With that, the streamlining of information has become an issue as well - I worked as a journalist for a while, and here in the Pacific a ton of people can just type up and email in 'news stories' without having to even be a real journalist as long as they've got some sources. Our local paper is chock full of spelling errors and misinformation due to a lack of quality control, too.

The few big sites that are left are glorified blogging spaces where dangerously uninformed people make inane and baseless/content-free articles, like Kotaku and the rest of the Gawker network when it comes to games.

This may sound like a lot of whining (it is) but honestly, the game industry is hardly an outlier when it comes to the death of journalism's prominence. It's suffering a little harder, though.

 

[Marc]

Yes, member of the press should totally threaten their livelihood for a small part of their audience who regularly insults them and acts as if they know nothing about gaming if they score a game too high or low. I'm sure they're really willing to get on that train.

That is their job, to report the truth on their chosen subject, as with any job.

You could reapply that paragraph to any subject like a political genocide carried out not being reported by the press because there might be consequences, all journalists could 'risk' their job by not doing what they are told. Except of course a great deal of the press risk their lives, not just their livelihood to get to the truth. Big difference to someone not getting press releases or press invites from a game company.

Hell, I tell people what I really think in my job at great risk (finding out from sources it has cost me certain things), as I am sure many over job roles do. Higher up's don't like to hear the truth sometimes, it happens. If they don't want the risk associated with that, then why the hell are they reporting in the first place?

Also, its not a small part, its every part of a community who plans on buying these consoles which is a great deal of people.

 

[JesseEwiak]

What you are saying is that there is no market for investigative journlaism? I'm not sure that is the case, but we have never really seen a site act like a watchdog if this industry... Treating the industry and the internet in large generalities like your post though, really doesn't add credence to whether or not there is a market where people can earn a living in that part of the press.

I think it would at least be worth a shot for a company to try and grow a journalist watchdog group in this industry.. Would help more then just consumers out too, as I'm sure there are very bad worker practices in the industry that definitely should be looked at.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. There is no market in the modern gaming industry for investigative journalism. At least not enough that can keep a site afloat if it doesn't do all the things (sign NDA's, not follow embargoes, etc.) that some people on GAF want sites to do.

 

[Stripper13]

The nutritional value of your food is comparable to how many pixels a couple of your games run at? Really, guy? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read in my life.

An exaggerated example but I feel it fits.

Have these games even gone gold? Are reviewers actually playing the final build of either of them on PS4 and Xbox One hardware? We're also in the age of the day one patch, what's broken now could be fixed before we even see these games running on our consoles.

I mean, I agree that the way publishers throw around NDA's (and the type of things they include in NDAs) are ridiculous, but this level of outrage over something like this? The absolute definition of mountains out of molehills.

What level of outrage? A forum post and the occasional curse word? I'm not exactly asking for a protest, guy. I asked the thoughts of other people in a forum dedicated to gaming.

 

[onipex]

But other enthusiast press isn't like this. Car magazines and motorcycle magazines aren't forced to hush about product problems via threats of lost access.

Because their customers don't accept it. Game fans on the other hand still go to the sites and keep supporting the companies that break their trust. There are backlashes every now and then but nothing that's going to change things.

 

[Logash]

It's not just the game industry. Investigative, even regular journalism is a dying art and no one wants to work in any sort of journalism. The new outlets now are people's blogs and websites, no one wants magazines or newspapers like they used to. With that, the streamlining of information has become an issue as well - I worked as a journalist for a while, and here in the Pacific a ton of people can just type up and email in 'news stories' without having to even be a real journalist as long as they've got some sources. Our local paper is chock full of spelling errors and misinformation due to a lack of quality control, too.

The few big sites that are left are glorified blogging spaces where dangerously uninformed people make inane and baseless/content-free articles, like Kotaku and the rest of the Gawker network when it comes to games.

This may sound like a lot of whining (it is) but honestly, the game industry is hardly an outlier when it comes to the death of journalism's prominence. It's suffering a little harder, though.

Kotaku is the worst when it comes to content but I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with opinion pieces.

 

[jbug617]

You know what should be done away with is Review Events. They don't make sense to me because I don't think that is a proper way to review a game.

 

[KingFire]

Your title makes it sound that game journalism used to be different.

Game journalism is not dead, for in order for it to have died, it must have lived. Game journalism does not exist and it never existed.

The only difference now is we have people like CBOAT and the internet. Leaks are much easier to come by these days.

I really wish that writers in this media start to take their jobs seriously instead of the typical "hey! it is all fun and laughter!" But I don't blame those writers/journalists. I blame you, me and every other "hardcore" gamer out there. We continue to support those terrible writers by visiting their websites, commenting, and contributing to their sites. We practically continue to give them money via subscriptions, site/social media activities, and ad clicks.

Why do you expect them to change if we refuse to change?

 

[njean777]

It's not just the game industry. Investigative, even regular journalism is a dying art and no one wants to work in any sort of journalism. The new outlets now are people's blogs and websites, no one wants magazines or newspapers like they used to. With that, the streamlining of information has become an issue as well - I worked as a journalist for a while, and here in the Pacific a ton of people can just type up and email in 'news stories' without having to even be a real journalist as long as they've got some sources. Our local paper is chock full of spelling errors and misinformation due to a lack of quality control, too.

This may sound like a lot of whining (it is) but honestly, the game industry is hardly an outlier when it comes to the death of journalism's prominence. It's suffering a little harder, though.

This may be a topic for another thread, but do you think it could be because journalism started slipping that people do not want real journalism anymore? I think there could be a good sized audience for real journalism. Maybe I am wrong, but I would pay money for real journalism.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

You know what should be done away with is Review Events. They don't make sense to me because I don't think that is a proper way to review a game.

COmpanies know they can control reviews because they know that we, as gamers, generally only care about reviews in the days before a game's release. A website putting up a proper review for Killzone ShadowFall, for example, with a copy they got on launch day, 2 weeks after the game releases, is not going to generate any attention. Nobody will care.

 

[outunderthestars]

Well, this is in no way a complete fucking over-reaction.

I disagree. It is damn insulting to be constantly left in the dark due to games writers' reliance on spoon-fed pr.

Gaming companies exert too much control over the entire industry.

 

[Stripper13]

I like how you use yourself as a source.

Nobody is forcing you to buy these things at launch. Wait. Honestly, wait a goddamn week. Everything you could dream of knowing will be publicly available by every enterprising blogger, Youtuber, and Twitter user online.
But wait! You don't even need to wait a week. The review embargos are up ten days before launch, and in the rush for clicks - you'll get every bit of information you could crave. Hundreds of hours of footage.

At no point have I said I'm buying one at launch. It's not about being impatient - it's about making an informed decision. Regardless of my level of patience - these companies are deliberately obfuscating and filtering every bit of information to ensure nothing questionable makes it's way to the end consumer. It's absolutely worth pointing out.

More importantly - even when the embargo's are up, it won't change the fact that the publisher/journalist/developer relationship is fucked up and worth discussing.

 

[unbias]

Cool, get people to care more about the practices of game companies more than than the latest score of the game franchise they love and this will changed. Until then, it'll remain the same, because nobodies going to boycott "X site" for firing person Y when they announce an exclusive look at Hot Franchise Z the next week.

Bold - That doesn't need to happen for there to be a market for investigative journalism. People do not need to care more about the well being of people they don't know, over their desire to make sure the money they spend gets them the desired result, for there still to be demand for said type of journalism. A does not need to be greater then B for the kind of consumer protection journalism people want, to exist. The simple realization is, it is easier to just be enthusiast press, then it is for investigative journalism(This is by no means unique to gaming, since investigative journalism is a dying occupation).

I do think, though, that there definitely would be a market for that kind of journalism in this industry, no matter how it happens.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Is this guy really in worse shape than me or does he have layers of t-shirts underneath?

 

[chickdigger802]

Well with how much traffic next gen games and console reviews/video hands on generates... would it be grand to post negative stuff about xbox one in the upcoming weeks?

 

[JesseEwiak]

This may be a topic for another thread, but do you think it could be because journalism started slipping that people do not want real journalism anymore? I think there could be a good sized audience for real journalism. Maybe I am wrong, but I would pay money for real journalism.

Let's do the math.

One journalist. Let's be conservative and say $30,000/year. Now, let's throw in expenses and all that jazz you need to be a journalist. (ie. Travel, Hotel Stays since we're taking no money from game companies, etc.). Again, let's be nice and say that's only another $10,000. Another $10,000 for incidentals (ie. hosting, etc.)

That's $50,000. Now, again, let's be extravagant and say people are willing to pay the price of a new game ($60) per year for access to that site. That's appx. 900 people. I'll be blunt. I don't think there's 900 people who are willing to pay $60 a year for that.

 

[Dio]

This may be a topic for another thread, but do you think it could be because journalism started slipping that people do not want real journalism anymore? I think there could be a good sized audience for real journalism. Maybe I am wrong, but I would pay money for real journalism.

It's a two pronged issue: journalists are underpaid and work thankless jobs now. It's also that the advent of the internet has caused a 'race' to see who can break news first - and since thoughtful, interesting articles take longer to publish than a quick, canned news blurb, all the video game journalism sites all rush to the top of the heap so they can get the most clicks.

Kotaku is the worst when it comes to content but I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with opinion pieces.

Yeah, but making an opinion piece should at least require you know what the fuck you're talking about, right?

 

[Gaz_RB]

Absolutely - and I will wait for all of the information to be available before I plonk my money down.

It doesn't change the fact that the industry is beyond a joke in terms of secrecy and PR spin. Presumably I would be much more informed 3-4 weeks out from launch if some of the industry players were not afraid to mention a negative or questionable element for fear of exclusion from future events.

Yeah, in a perfect world, that'd be great. But the fact is the people who care enough and are bothered by it enough still end up buying the product and getting nothing changed. It makes more economic sense for the companies to hide these things, and since it is their product, an entertainment product, a luxury item, it is their choice in the end what they choose to reveal.

 

[Moon_frogger]

If you're that worried about your 500 dollar purchase than don't pre order. Early adopting in the console business is ill advised anyway. It's a highly competitive market and very secretive. Apple is just as secretive about their products. Nobody is forcing you to pre order games or consoles. You can choose to wait until release day when the info is out there

 

[ChronoX]

As lame as it might be, employees, devs, "journalists", PR etc are simply just doing what they are told to do from the higher ups. They follow orders because if they don't they risk losing their jobs over what may seem to be trivial information to us.

 

[Dylan]

Yes - because that's what the point of my post was...

This has been going on for months with respect to the new consoles - and much, much longer with all things gaming. Let's not act like I was targeting IGN for not bringing in people for the weekend to dig information.

The only reason that the coverage exists in the first place is because we are so willing to accept the ridiculous conditions enthusiast media are beholden to in order to suckle at the smallest dribbles of information about products that aren't even out yet.

If we acted rationally and just waited for these toys to hit the shelves before throwing our money at them we wouldn't need to concern ourselves with the integrity of Honest Ed's Gaming News Blog.

 

[bleachrude]

How exactly do you think investigative journalism works?

 

[Stripper13]

Your title makes it sound that game journalism used to be different.

Game journalism is not dead, for in order for it to have died, it must have lived. Game journalism does not exist and it never existed.

The only difference now is we have people like CBOAT and the internet. Leaks are much easier to come by these days.

I really wish that writers in this media start to take their jobs seriously instead of the typical "hey! it is all fun and laughter!" But I don't blame those writers/journalists. I blame you, me and every other "hardcore" gamer out there. We continue to support those terrible writers by visiting their websites, commenting, and contributing to their sites. We practically continue to give them money via subscriptions, site/social media activities, and ad clicks.

Why do you expect them to change if we refuse to change?

I can only speak for myself - but I haven't visited a gaming site not named NeoGAF in months. The last site I went to before that was Kotaku - and that was during the XB1 launch event because GAF went down.

It's not an active boycott - I just got tired of the same spoon-fed marketing bullshit. I think when it became apparent that every preview was "Hey, this game is going to be freaking amazing", I decided that GAF would be the best source of news.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

I was hoping someone would make this thread, as I can't yet make thread myself. I have had the exact same questions as the op for a long time. The enthusiast press being in the back pocket of he industry, functioning as more of a marketing arm and rubber stamp is quite sickening to say the least. They should be the consumer advocate, the industry's checks and balances, making it possible for a consumer to make an informed decision based on straight forward facts.

When is this going to finally happen?

 

[GillianSeed79]

Being open and transparent shouldn't "Threaten their livelihood". That's the point. When Vanity Faire writer writes and article about gwenyth paltrow cheating on her husband, he doesn't get black balled. When a political writer exposes a story, or writes an article that paints the white house and/or Obama in a bad light, they don't lose their livelihood. That's the problem.

For every game journalist with balls there's 150 kids with a Let's Play or Machima Youtube account who will gladly play ball. It doesn't help that most sites and magazines are funded by advertising dollars from game publishers. We'd do ourselves a favor by supporting independent journalists, but we don't. The mythical game journalist we want would be fired in two days at most major sites.

The only way it changes is if you or we support independent journalists. Good luck getting them previews or review copies or even getting invited to preview or press events.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Most people who actually play games won't care about any of this stuff OP. Native resolutions, embargos etc.


Just have fun buy what you want and play what you want,

 

[unbias]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. There is no market in the modern gaming industry for investigative journalism. At least not enough that can keep a site afloat if it doesn't do all the things (sign NDA's, not follow embargoes, etc.) that some people on GAF want sites to do.

Name me a single site, with any number of backers that have even tried to do, what you are saying cant happen. Also, no investigative journalism survives on its own, you just need to find more to do then just that. Besides it isnt like the enthusiast press has a great future. More and more companies are taking their press and making it in house, and just feeding the press sites enough to get the hype out, even more so then it used to be.

The games media's enthusiast press is already trying to change(Giantbomb, the growth of youtube personalities, and ect). Whatever form of gaming press that you think needs to be, in order to survive, isnt doing a very good job as surviving. So if your evidence to support your notion is what the current games media industry looks like, I would say you are using a very poor point of reference.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

You know what I hate? These pricks on twitter.

Reviewer/Journalist: "Ohh God, I hate what is happening right now!"

GAF: I wonder whats going on? Xbox having problems?

Reviewer/Journalist: "ZOMG! GAF Thread already!!11 Taking muscle relaxers!!"

Seriously, fuck off with this cryptic shit. If you don't have anything meaningful to share, or can't share, then please just don't bother.

 

[CadetMahoney]

COmpanies know they can control reviews because they know that we, as gamers, generally only care about reviews in the days before a game's release. A website putting up a proper review for Killzone ShadowFall, for example, with a copy they got on launch day, 2 weeks after the game releases, is not going to generate any attention. Nobody will care.

Even so they still want the metacritic to uphold the "legacy" of a highly marketed tentpole title as "the most awesomeness game this gen, look at teh gr4ph1x" and not have an average score, so post launch reviews do matter for something.

 

[Glorified G]

All this over a few tweets? Relax

 

[Logash]

You know what I hate? These pricks on twitter.

Reviewer/Journalist: "Ohh God, I hate what is happening right now!"

GAF: I wonder whats going on? Xbox having problems?

Reviewer/Journalist: "ZOMG! GAF Thread already!!11 Taking muscle relaxers!!"

Seriously, fuck off with this cryptic shit. If you don't have anything meaningful to share, or can't share, then please just don't bother.

I don't mind them hinting at their frustration at something that effects their job. It makes sense to me.

 

[Racer1977]

Gaming websites are forced to to play by the publishers' rules unless they blacklist them, and if they blacklist them, they wen't be able to get review copies or get access to press conferences and thus that would put them in a huge disadvantage against other sites that adhered to the rules.

Also,gaming journalism lacks professionalism when it comes to actual content. Take sites like IGN where they focus a lot on being wacky more than giving actual insight because not only it's easier to do, but there is a huge audience for that kind of stuff. This won't improve unless we support article with actual insight on our industry.

I can tell you right now, any site that was blacklisted for spilling the truth would be at the top of my bookmarks list.

Neogaf is now the first gaming site I visit, the likes of Eurogamer, IGN etc. are becoming as irrelevant as the print media they replaced. Anything that is worth reading is linked anyhow.

A news site that didn't tow the company line would be a roaring success, and I'm sure as a journalist, it would be far more satisfying to speak freely. It wouldn't be a license to bitch and moan, afterall there's plenty to be happy about, equally, there are times when standing on the side of the consumer is the only position to take.

 

[Dylan]

Umm we are their base and our clicks pay their paychecks. Also your example is not even near what we are discussing. So please stay on topic.

How isn't it?

The OP is basically saying he wants to know information about a product that isn't for sale. He wants the new Big Mac at 5am and he's furious that nobody will tell him what's in the special sauce until 7.

 

[BajiBoxer]

Blast Processing!

 

[Codeblue]

All this over a few tweets? Relax

It's hard not be annoyed when people in a profession that are supposed to be our advocates, take to a public outlet and taunt us with the fact that they won't do their jobs in the most immature way possible.

 

[JesseEwiak]

You know what I hate? These pricks on twitter.

Reviewer/Journalist: "Ohh God, I hate what is happening right now!"

GAF: I wonder whats going on? Xbox having problems?

Reviewer/Journalist: "ZOMG! GAF Thread already!!11 Taking muscle relaxers!!"

Seriously, fuck off with this cryptic shit. If you don't have anything meaningful to share, or can't share, then please just don't bother.

See that 'Following' button. Click it! Problem solved!

 

[outunderthestars]

You know what I hate? These pricks on twitter.

Reviewer/Journalist: "Ohh God, I hate what is happening right now!"

GAF: I wonder whats going on? Xbox having problems?

Reviewer/Journalist: "ZOMG! GAF Thread already!!11 Taking muscle relaxers!!"

Seriously, fuck off with this cryptic shit. If you don't have anything meaningful to share, or can't share, then please just don't bother.

Well said.

 

[Stripper13]

The only reason that the coverage exists in the first place is because we are so willing to accept the ridiculous conditions enthusiast media are beholden to in order to suckle at the smallest dribbles of information about products that aren't even out yet.

If we acted rationally and just waited for these toys to hit the shelves before throwing our money at them we wouldn't need to concern ourselves with the integrity of Honest Ed's Gaming News Blog.

Uhh.. I essentially 'pre-ordered' my car. Why?

1. Because it was hard as fuck to get one without getting on a waitlist - hence the need to put money down prior to release

2. Because the car company had a good amount of detailed information available. Obviously nothing inherently negative. But I knew how much kW/horse-power it had, the fuel it used, weight, brakes, seats blah blah blah. I wasn't simply promised "oh it'll be fantastic - trust us, 6 billion-transistors, money here plz"

3. Because the motoring press did their work. I knew what I was getting into in terms of disappointments, short-comings and of course, the positives/exciting-stuff. I had all of the information at my fingertips good and bad, and I was able to make an informed decision that has caused no regrets.

I'm not sure why I should expect to begin my research on day of release? It's certainly not what I've had to do for most of my previous luxury-item purchases.

 

[pieatorium]

How isn't it?

The OP is basically saying he wants to know information about a product that isn't for sale. He wants the new Big Mac at 5am and he's furious that nobody will tell him what's in the special sauce until 7.

you can't pre order a big mac

 

[sephi22]

Money.

And entitled gamers who think everything should just be given to them. And then throw tantrums when things don't go their way.

Its obnoxious enough when publishers use this phrase.
Seeing someone use this on GAF (one of the more gamer-friendly forums) is just the worst...

 

[Optimus Lime]

I don't know what universe some of you 'game journalism has ALWAYS been corrupt' people are coming from.

Enthusiast press used to be deeply cynical and critical, in a completely positive and healthy way. Magazines like Zzap64, Crash, Amtix, and even CVG used to regularly eviscerate products and publishers. Zzap was notorious for skewering shoddy ports and poor products with, and the industry was the better for it.

The current despicable joke that is 'games journalism' is all about perks. That's it. These people don't really give a shit about the industry. They give a shit about free products, invitations, and the benefits of sucking up to big business.

Maybe Zzap could exist the way it did because it wasn't yet a 'big business'. Sad.

 

[Stripper13]

All this over a few tweets? Relax

Relax? I'm not exactly fuming over here in front of my computer. Discussion forum etc.