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[StuBurns]

Aside this game being level 5's first HD game, it's also one of the first Jrpg games to incorporate online co-op with a full fledged single player. Give them some slack!

While the online part isn't impressive graphicly, it looks better in motion and is overall very solid so far. I'm only worried about the lack of headset.

I am cutting them slack, nearly four years in development, and it's the worst looking next gen JRPG. This is from the people who are positioned as the next big thing in Japanese RPG developers.

The coop concept is cool, but we have no idea how well it'll work or how much of it there is. I don't feel I can comment about the coop at all yet, the graphics however, are there for all to see, and it looks bad. The CG on the other hand, is very impressive.

I'm not saying the game won't be great, it could, but from what I've seen it's falling way short of where I'd expect.

KH, there was slowdown AND screen tear. Were you not even watching?

 

[-Kh-]

KH, there was slowdown AND screen tear. Were you not even watching?

Yes, I made you sure to leave my eyes open thanks.

And I saw none.

 

[ayrkain]

Yes, I made you sure to leave my eyes open thanks.

And I saw none.

Did you watch the PS3 version or the PC? I watched it off the PSN and didn't see any, but maybe it's present on the PC version of the vid? Dunno.

 

[StuBurns]

Yes, I made you sure to leave my eyes open thanks.

And I saw none.

I don't know what to say, you're flat out wrong, I can get screen grabs of the screen tear, but obviously I can't show slowdown, it's near the end of the gameplay one, when the main character is running up towards that castle type building, looks like a little town. Same time there is screen tear.

I'm talking about the PSN version.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I think it really looks about the same as TLR, when you see some of the town locations in these trailers. The blades of grass are like a texture of about 20 moving together. It looks awful.

And the graphics matter because people are doing so much better. The same way if TR:U looked like TR2 I would hate it, not because TR2 doesn't look good enough to play, because it shows a lack of effort. We know the PS3 can do so much better. L5 are not trying hard enough.

did you watch the studio tour video with the SP footage...again it looked better... Personally I could care less about the online portion, since I wont be playing it

 

[StuBurns]

did you watch the studio tour video with the SP footage...again it looked better... Personally I could care less about the online portion, since I wont be playing it

No I didn't watch that, I wasn't sure if it'd be just the studio and if it'd show anything interesting, I'll check it out.

As for frame rate and screen tear, yes there are both at the end of the gameplay trailer, but it's from TGS, it's not gold code, and it'll probably get further polish before the Western release, so I'm not worried about it. But I don't think that's even the point, to say a game doesn't have major technical issues, is not the same being graphically impressive. No game should be below locked 30 and have any screen tear. It's disgusting, I'm not going to congratulate a developer for not fucking up.

 

[-Kh-]

I don't know what to say, you're flat out wrong, I can get screen grabs of the screen tear, but obviously I can't show slowdown, it's near the end of the gameplay one, when the main character is running up towards that castle type building, looks like a little town. Same time there is screen tear.

I'm talking about the PSN version.

Ok I just noticed the slowdown on that part where the guy is running towards the city with the castle of the backgorund.

I'm watching on PC, so probably the tearing is not an issue because of that.

But well after rewatching the gameplay video, the slowdown seems just to be in the city, I didn't notice any in the field, probably because of the prerendered(?) backgrounds. So it seems that displaying the whole city at once is stressful for the engine.

But after Heavenly Sword, this game doesn't see so many bad problems.

No game should be below locked 30 and have any screen tear. It's disgusting, I'm not going to congratulate a developer for not fucking up.

Seriously, I know about that. I deal with this problems week after week. But Sony is no position to demand so much from developers during this generation. Given the console status, and the console itself. Might be too much blaming the Cell, but still it is an extra factor to deal with.

So unfortunately for Sony, tearing is not critical issue, slowdown is but only if it heavily hinders gameplay, that's why games like HS, Mirror's Edge, GTA4, etc, have come out in the state they are.

 

[Negaiido]

Whine Whine Whine I cant play without no screen tearing Whine Whine Whine....
Please stop talking about framerates and screen tearing for one CENTURY

 

[StuBurns]

The PS3 is not the problem, after playing KZ2 which has no screen tear, locked 30 frame rate, (with small dips during the streaming trigger points, so no perceivable loading), and is just on a whole other level graphically, I will never except hardware as an issue ever again.

The console is a monster, we shouldn't be seeing these issues on retail code ever.

But as I said I'm sure WKC won't have these problems when we get it, it probably just needed a little more optimization and tuning.

 

[-Kh-]

The PS3 is not the problem, after playing KZ2 which has no screen tear, locked 30 frame rate, (with small dips during the streaming trigger points, so no perceivable loading), and is just on a whole other level graphically, I will never except hardware as an issue ever again.

The console is a monster, we shouldn't be seeing these issues on retail code ever.

But as I said I'm sure WKC won't have these problems when we get it, it probably just needed a little more optimization and tuning.

I have yet to see KZ2, It has been around in the office since about month and a half but I always miss it around.

The main problem is that fixing all those issues requires time and money, extra money on both debugging and more QA, on top of delaying the game. And Sony don't want to deal with that. I just hate the sometimes the answers from my boss about some games' issues.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Wow those actually got me excited for the game again.
Graphics look great in motion.

I have yet to see KZ2, It has been around in the office since about month and a half but I always miss it around.

The main problem is that fixing all those issues requires time and money, extra money on both debugging and more QA, on top of delaying the game. And Sony don't want to deal with that. I just hate the sometimes the answers from my boss about some games' issues.

Where do you work KH?

 

[StuBurns]

I have yet to see KZ2, It has been around in the office since about month and a half but I always miss it around.

The main problem is that fixing all those issues requires time and money, extra money on both debugging and more QA, on top of delaying the game. And Sony don't want to deal with that. I just hate the sometimes the answers from my boss about some games' issues.

Exactly, it takes time and money, but it's possible. To me that's entry level stuff. The game should be smooth, locked 30, with no slowdown, no screen tear, and no distracting aliasing. I know it's not easy to do that stuff, because it comes together near the end when the final optimization takes place. But I don't think those things should be applauded, they should be expected.

Imagine if when you buy a CD you couldn't just expect it to be well mixed and mastered? If you basically get well recorded sounds, but beyond that, it just depends on if the album was given the time and money required to get that stuff done. It's literally like that with games, and I really find it unacceptable.

We should be expecting these things as standard, to the point where we don't even need names for these technical issues.

P.S. Pop in KZ2, it's a serious power house.

 

[-Kh-]

Where do you work KH?

SCEE

 

[Dead Prince]

i hope there's a demo for this game before the JP release.

I just watched the two videos. CG is awesome as always. looks better on a big screen ;3

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Those trailers really do look awesome. The whole universe they have created is
very intriguing as well...hmm hype rising.

SCEE

Nice.

 

[Johann]

There hasn't been any real talk of a NA/Europe release.

I wonder if they'll pull a Rogue Galaxy and delay the game for a director's cut (more content, better visuals, and better gameplay balance) release for abroad. They could just release as DLC these days.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Game might be fun, but watching that trailer and that "demo", the game looks really sub par. I really think it looks like a PS2 game with 4xAA or in "Hd rez". Very poor character models and texturing, and lightning.

 

[Durante]

Exactly, it takes time and money, but it's possible. To me that's entry level stuff. The game should be smooth, locked 30, with no slowdown, no screen tear, and no distracting aliasing.

If that's "entry level stuff" why have almost all HD RPGs so far failed at doing it (both western and japanese)? The only ones I can think of that actually do provide all that are Valkyria Chronicles and Eternal Sonata.

 

[-Kh-]

Game might be fun, but watching that trailer and that "demo", the game looks really sub par. I really think it looks like a PS2 game with 4xAA or in "Hd rez". Very poor character models and texturing, and lightning.

WrikaWrek
not so clever on wednesdays, around tea time
(Today, 05:21 PM)


Why, yes indeed.

 

[WrikaWrek]

WrikaWrek
not so clever on wednesdays, around tea time
(Today, 05:21 PM)


Why, yes indeed.

Cmon man. I find it very hard to believe that people think that looks good for PS3 levels. It really doesn't.

And i'm not trying to be clever anyway, do you even know the meaning of the word?

 

[StuBurns]

If that's "entry level stuff" why have almost all HD RPGs so far failed at doing it (both western and japanese)? The only ones I can think of that actually do provide all that are Valkyria Chronicles and Eternal Sonata.

Well yeah, just those two, and of course LO which is 30, no screen tear, and Blue Dragon which is as well, and SO4 of course. Basically all of them are, except WKC.

 

[-Kh-]

Cmon man. I find it very hard to believe that people think that looks good for PS3 levels. It really doesn't.

And i'm not trying to be clever anyway, do you even know the meaning of the word?

I know, I know. Not trying to contradict you, just that the tag and the time matched, so I had to do it :lol

Sorry about that anyway.

Well yeah, just those two, and of course LO which is 30, no screen tear, and Blue Dragon which is as well, and SO4 of course. Basically all of them are, except WKC.

Take into consideration that PS3 games have suffered more of tearing than 360 games, for whatever reason, that is.

 

[Durante]

Well yeah, just those two, and of course LO which is 30, no screen tear, and Blue Dragon which is as well, and SO4 of course. Basically all of them are, except WKC.

SO4 is not out, and I see you have played neither BD nor LO. I have. LO is slightly less awful than BD when it comes to slowdowns, but it still has plenty, and even more importantly it has TONS of distracting aliasing.

 

[WrikaWrek]

I know, I know. Not trying to contradict you, just that the tag and the time matched, so I had to do it :lol

Sorry about that anyway.

Bah, it's fine.

Well yeah, just those two, and of course LO which is 30, no screen tear, and Blue Dragon which is as well, and SO4 of course. Basically all of them are, except WKC.

I don't remember problems with Lost Odyssey but Blue Dragon had lot's of slowdown at least.

 

[jett]

Those graphics cannot be considered good in any way, shape or form.

 

[Dragon]

Well yeah, just those two, and of course LO which is 30, no screen tear, and Blue Dragon which is as well, and SO4 of course. Basically all of them are, except WKC.

Oh SO4 is out?

 

[DCharlie]

"Reviewers have started playing the final version of a new JRPG on the PS3. One of them said it was an Epic <blank>"

Over to you contestants.

 

[Askia47]

The graphics look fine, they may not be FFXIII good, but it wont matter if the game play is solid.

 

[Dragon]

Those graphics cannot be considered good in any way, shape or form.

What are your expectations considering the genre? I've enjoyed both Tales and VC neither of which has 'great' graphics but have unique styles. This looks a bit more generic than those games but I'm more interested in the gameplay anyway.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Well yeah, just those two, and of course LO which is 30, no screen tear, and Blue Dragon which is as well, and SO4 of course. Basically all of them are, except WKC.

SO4 gets a pass as well... I think it looks good, but the backgrounds are pretty damn blocky...more so than in this game even... it really doesn't look uniformly impressive to me...

Were did you get that info Dcharlie? No offence or anything, but you are a hundred times more likely to pick up on negative, rather than positive stuff in this regard...

Anyway, Ill finish that sentance: 'an Epic melange of transexual goats and lamas masquerading as bearded Barbara Streisand wannabes'

 

[cvkpaladin]

Well yeah, just those two, and of course LO which is 30, no screen tear, and Blue Dragon which is as well, and SO4 of course. Basically all of them are, except WKC.

LO definitely had screen tearing. So did Infinite Undiscovery. Never played Blue Dragon so I can't comment on that. If the visuals haven't changed much since the latest released media on TLR, we can also add that game to the long list of JRPGs with technical problems. SO4 is definitely the best of the bunch from what I've seen so far.

I am unable to watch the vids of WKC since I'm at work but based on previous media it wasn't exactly a technical marvel. I did however find the art direction, especially of the stuff seen in the CG cinematics, to be top notch. I am hoping for the best but expecting something along the lines of other Level 5 jrpg products such as Rogue Galaxy and the Dark Cloud series of games.

 

[pancakesandsex]

Well yeah, just those two, and of course LO which is 30, no screen tear, and Blue Dragon which is as well, and SO4 of course. Basically all of them are, except WKC.

BD has no tearing? I remember the demo having it. I guess it was fixed in the end?

 

[jett]

What are your expectations considering the genre? I've enjoyed both Tales and VC neither of which has 'great' graphics but have unique styles. This looks a bit more generic than those games but I'm more interested in the gameplay anyway.

The problem for me is the original trailer they showed. I could excuse the graphics if the game still had the dynamic animations and amazing flow of that one trailer. Visually it really has nothing going for it, as you said it looks quite generic.

 

[Durante]

BD has no tearing? I remember the demo having it. I guess it was fixed in the end?

It had a prodigious amount of tearing and slowdown throughout the game. As I said earlier, stuburns either hasn't played it (and LO) or needs his eyes fixed.

 

[StuBurns]

It had a prodigious amount of tearing and slowdown throughout the game. As I said earlier, stuburns either hasn't played it (and LO) or needs his eyes fixed.

I didn't play all of BD, but I did play all of LO. Maybe the HD had better v-sync like in ME, but there was no screen tear. Which would make sense I guess, it's the same engine.

 

[Firewire]

I'm liking the way it looks, and from what I can tell of how it actually works its looking good.

I hope we get an announcement on a N.A. release soon.

 

[Durante]

@stuburns:
You originally proposed that "The game should be smooth, locked 30, with no slowdown, no screen tear, and no distracting aliasing." Even if LO had no tearing (which it doesn't, I played it for almost 100 hours) it still fails on all other counts.

 

[pancakesandsex]

It had a prodigious amount of tearing and slowdown throughout the game. As I said earlier, stuburns either hasn't played it (and LO) or needs his eyes fixed.

Some people just can't see it. Which is why they get away with it in the 1st place.


Vsync 4 life

 

[StuBurns]

@stuburns:
You originally proposed that "The game should be smooth, locked 30, with no slowdown, no screen tear, and no distracting aliasing." Even if LO had no tearing (which it doesn't, I played it for almost 100 hours) it still fails on all other counts.

Okay, it's not locked 30, but it's very smooth, never distracting. I saw no slowdown, no screen tearing and was not distracted by the aliasing.

Maybe locked 30 is a little extreme, variable around 30 is more what I really care about. Just in the early 20s or less, at the point it really distracts from the game and negatively effects my experience of the game.

As for someone who mentioned SO4, no, it's not out, and it's already rock solid smooth with no tearing.

And I am very sensitive to those things, this conversation started because I saw them on the videos others could not.

 

[Kagari]

i hope there's a demo for this game before the JP release.

I just watched the two videos. CG is awesome as always. looks better on a big screen ;3

A demo would be nice.

 

[Kagari]

Okay, it's not locked 30, but it's very smooth, never distracting. I saw no slowdown, no screen tearing and was not distracted by the aliasing.

Maybe locked 30 is a little extreme, variable around 30 is more what I really care about. Just in the early 20s or less, at the point it really distracts from the game and negatively effects my experience of the game.

As for someone who mentioned SO4, no, it's not out, and it's already rock solid smooth with no tearing.

And I am very sensitive to those things, this conversation started because I saw them on the videos others could not.

Seems screentearing is a common issue this generation. Games like Uncharted and Mass Effect suffer from it all over the place.

 

[Syntek]

This is one of the few HD titles that's sticking to old-school rendering. Nowadays, it's pretty hard to find a HD title that isn't spamming shader effects left and right. Though I think the technology is wonderful, since it gives everything a shining, glossy look, and it was immediately refreshing, but too much of one thing gets tiring. I can appreciate the old-school rendering style every now and then, and this game has done it beautifully I think.

 

[-Kh-]

Though I think the technology is wonderful, since it gives everything a shining, glossy look, and it was immediately refreshing, but too much of one thing gets tiring.

The first year it might have been great, but now you have most of the "great looking games" looking like all the models had been through a metal polisher.

And some games look so bad with this shiny effect, I really don't like the style of numerous games this gen because of that exact reason.

 

[My Arms Your Hearse]

I can't understand why the character models are worse than some of their PS2 games (no seriously). They seem to look worse in the cutscenes than in the actual play (you can especially see how plastic they are).

They're just TERRIBLE. Honestly as good as Level 5 was technical/graphics wise on PS2, it kind of takes you back.

Still looks pretty good in motion though. Hopefully it will be fun.

I would ultimately agree with Jett, though. In no way can you say that looks good for a game coming out on PS3 at this stage of the game.

(especially those shittacular character models... like something straight out of doa volleyball)

 

[-Kh-]

Honestly as good as Level 5 was technical/graphics wise on PS2, it kind of takes you back.

Weren't most of their PS2 games cel-shaded?

I don't remember Level 5 for their realistic graphics, might this be their first attempt?

They should just stick to cel-shaded graphics, that's something they do great.

 

[Kagari]

So much hate in this thread...

As probably the biggest supporter of this game on this forum, even I'll admit that the graphics aren't 'OMG amazing!' but as for the game itself, I will play it for myself before writing off. I will gladly admit that it's not good if it turns out to be the case, but I hope not.

 

[StuBurns]

So much hate in this thread...

As probably the biggest supporter of this game on this forum, even I'll admit that the graphics aren't 'OMG amazing!' but as for the game itself, I will play it for myself before writing off. I will gladly admit that it's not good if it turns out to be the case, but I hope not.

I don't think people are writing it off. The graphics are god awful, they totally deserve ripping apart. The game could, and probably will, be amazing. L5 know what they're doing, and the coop alone is exciting.

I'm certainly not writing it off yet.

 

[Syntek]

I can't understand why the character models are worse than some of their PS2 games (no seriously). They seem to look worse in the cutscenes than in the actual play (you can especially see how plastic they are).

They're just TERRIBLE. Honestly as good as Level 5 was technical/graphics wise on PS2, it kind of takes you back.

Still looks pretty good in motion though. Hopefully it will be fun.

I would ultimately agree with Jett, though. In no way can you say that looks good for a game coming out on PS3 at this stage of the game.

(especially those shittacular character models... like something straight out of doa volleyball)

I liked the DOA volleyball models and the impossibly smooth skin and curves....isn't that like the only reason why that game was made in the first place, because people (aka Japan) wanted to oogle at the models?. I guess it comes down to style preference I suppose. A look at most western titles shows that most devs simply had too much fun with Zbrush, and while it shows off their technical prowess, and is no doubt suitable for the style and market they target.....but you know, they are all starting to look very VERY similar. I'd say we need more cel-shaded rendering and more "plastic" DOA-style rendering these days just to balance things out.

 

[-Kh-]

So much hate in this thread...

As probably the biggest supporter of this game on this forum, even I'll admit that the graphics aren't 'OMG amazing!' but as for the game itself, I will play it for myself before writing off. I will gladly admit that it's not good if it turns out to be the case, but I hope not.

I'm totally buying the PS3 for this game. And my main reason to get it is not the single player story (which has a fantastic setting), but the online mode.

 

[StuBurns]

I'm totally buying the PS3 for this game. And my main reason to get it is not the single player story (which has a fantastic setting), but the online mode.

You work at Sony Computer Entertainment Europe and you don't have a PS3?
They should be giving you them.