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[nincompoop]

hideous

no u

Woah. Are there any videos of some of the cut scenes using this?

I dunno, I haven't really messed around much with shaders in psx emulation tbh. You can probably find videos at the ngemu forums.

 

[brain_stew]

Ok, but that does not explain what I want to know. Rendering or not, will the quality of the upscaled picture be comparable to if it was rendered by the console itself? That's the important part to me, I don't care where the picture is coming from.

Well it IS explained in this thread but regardless, no it will not be in any way comparable. That box is just doing what your TV is doing already, sure it might be better at the task but upscaling can never improve the original image, just stop it from looking like crap on a display with a different native resolution. So there may be an improvement but it'll only be very minor at most.

 

[Haunted]

We definitely need some Wii-emulated-in-720p screens up in this bitch.

 

[Eteric Rice]

We definitely need some Wii-emulated-in-720p screens up in this bitch.

Especially of Galaxy. :O

 

[szhred]

I want my Wii to do 720p. It looks very nice. You can buy receivers that upscales Wii to 720p but that that cost to much
Wish there was a adapter to buy or something.

 

[brain_stew]

Stolen from here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352818&page=6&highlight=dolphin

And just because it looks awesome:

I want my Wii to do 720p. It looks very nice. You can buy receivers that upscales Wii to 720p but that that cost to much
Wish there was a adapter to buy or something.

I swear, one of these days, members of GAF will read a couple of posts before hitting the reply button.

 

[Dartastic]

Especially of Galaxy. :O

THIIIIIIS!

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Yeah, the purpose of a decent upscaler is primarily to work around the limitations of some product that either doesn't have one, or has one so simple the results look awful. To pick an image at hand and an arbitrary new resolution, it could be the difference between an image

displaying like this

or like this

.

 

[Sage00]

I've no real experience with emulators at all, but how can I get this to work (legally?)?

Install emulator?

Pop Wii game in dvd drive?

Play?

Simple as that? Will it recognise wii-mote input with a bluetooth adaptor?

(I'm thinking it's not quite like this..afterall, if it was, my Wii hardware would be pretty redundant. Which would suit me fine, but sounds too good to be true!).

Legally you will extract the Wii BIOS and system software yourself from your own Wii and transfer it to the computer with the emulator.

 

[gofreak]

Legally you will extract the Wii BIOS and system software yourself from your own Wii and transfer it to the computer with the emulator.

Not sure I follow..is that the extent of what you can do legally? Is it illegal to play your own (legal) Wii discs on the emulator then? Is it only legal to emulate the system software?

Slightly OT, but on PS2 emulation..though Sony publically says it's not worrying about that, privately there still seems to be a group in CA working on emulation stuff.. their most recent patent popped up some days ago, but was filed last September. As far as I can see there's no talk about methods of getting around a lack of GS (so don't get your hopes up about pure software emu), but talks instead about how PS2 games might be enhanced or augmented on a target system (like PS3), even to the point of pulling in new textures etc. So there still seems to be interest there..maybe this relates to selective emulation and enhancement of PS2 games they might want to put on PSN..?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Couldn't they just find a way to upscale games to 720p with the current Wii, like an external box or something?

I was always hoping for this. While my TV has a good enough upscaler that if I mess with the settings nearly all of my games don't look like "shit" but "good enough" I want them to look as good as they did or better then when they were on my SDTV.

btw, that reasoning you said is one reason why OnLive might actually work for a lot of people.

Exactly. Most consumers don't give a crap about "perfect quality" or "lagless gaming".

 

[Killa Sasa]

Late, but

That looks so weird.

 

[Trojan X]

External Upscaler box for video games are a waste of time as the graphics are not re-drawn on the screen. Don't before with them unless you are refering to a DVD or something. Emulators these days actually re-draw the 3D graphics so it looks better than the original. Right now, I'm about to boot up VF3 which I got running at 1200p+ (higher than 1080p) which looks absolutely incredible and better than some of the games of late! Funnily, my PC in way inferior than the X360 and PS3 too! Hint hint Sega.

 

[eso76]

I don't know what this means, there's no way it's altering the native resolution, so it's just upscaling, so basically every TV connected to a Wii can do this also.

no, when it's 3d graphics it's actually possible for an emulator to render internally at an higher res. point is, rendering wii games in 720p won't make them look a lot better, in most cases it will make their lacking in geometry and resolution of textures more apparent.
Better off playing the thing on a good CRT.

 

[scitek]

Not sure I follow..

I think he's saying that since you have to have the Wii BIOS and system files for the emulator to work, you would have to extract them from your own Wii for it to have been done legally. Most people running the emulator are going to have found those files through other means, though, and thus just running the games they own is already illegal because they are using pirated system files.

 

[pakkit]

I hope Wii2 can bump the resolution on Wii games, Brawl looked great.

 

[scitek]

no, when it's 3d graphics it's actually possible for an emulator to render internally at an higher res. point is, rendering wii games in 720p won't make them look a lot better, in most cases it will make their lacking in geometry and resolution of textures more apparent.
Better off playing the thing on a good CRT.

I remember when the Wii was first announced and people were complaining that it should be able to support "HD" because the Xbox and PS2 had the ability to render SD games at 720p or 1080i. Even then I was saying that I didn't see the point as that type of "HD" is far different from the HD-gaming of the PCS360. It just enhances any lack of polish, as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: Off-topic, but if you're running your Wii using component through an HDMI receiver and using the HDMI connection to connect to your TV. Do yourself a favor and just plug the component cables directly into your TV if you can. I had to buy an audio extender since the official Wii cables have the audio permanently set right next to the video, but man, the picture really cleaned up. Apparently my receiver's converter is garbage.

 

[Eteric Rice]

no, when it's 3d graphics it's actually possible for an emulator to render internally at an higher res. point is, rendering wii games in 720p won't make them look a lot better, in most cases it will make their lacking in geometry and resolution of textures more apparent.
Better off playing the thing on a good CRT.

The only thing I'd care about is getting rid of the jaggies. That's all, really.

 

[neo2046]

man, I really want to play Mario Kart and TvsC in this quality ...........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W29jCfYvrNg&fmt=22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8wN_7IFrnE&fmt=22



yes, I also want to see how Galaxy looks in 720P

 

[bee]

the emu doesn't need the wii bios to run

the only ways to legally get the iso's on your hdd are either to buy a certain model of pc dvd drive (think its an LG) or to use a chipped wii and dump the disc in parts to a sd card

mario galaxy needs two dirty hacks to work and still has a lot of corrupted graphics

 

[Blizzard]

I think he's saying that since you have to have the Wii BIOS and system files for the emulator to work, you would have to extract them from your own Wii for it to have been done legally. Most people running the emulator are going to have found those files through other means, though, and thus just running the games they own is already illegal because they are using pirated system files.

This may be true, but if so I think it's kind of dumb if you're using a file that has binary data that's EXACTLY the same to the file that's on one's Wii. You're not robbing anyone of a sale, there's not even any equivalent of "stealing"...you're just using the binary data. :|

Also, due to annoying stuff like the DMCA, it's probably even illegal to extract your own Wii BIOS files or whatever is involved. When I was helping work on the Brawl screenshot decoder program, we had to use an encryption key to even decode the images...and the process of getting that key would almost certainly have violated the DMCA (except the people doing it were in some other country). I tried to munge my program so no one would get the key from it, but people can still find the various keys online anyway.

 

[polyh3dron]

I'd like to see MadWorld in 720p



Couldn't they just find a way to upscale games to 720p with the current Wii, like an external box or something?

btw, that reasoning you said is one reason why OnLive might actually work for a lot of people.

News flash, if you're playing Madworld on your 1080p TV it's already being upscaled to 1080p. Actually, anything you watch on your 1080p TV is being upscaled to 1080p.

 

[eso76]

Right now, I'm about to boot up VF3 which I got running at 1200p+

dreamcast or model 3 version ? (or is there a pc version i didn't know of?)

 

[MikeE21286]

What does this mean for the Wii and for the video game industry?

I don't think it means anything.

 

[Cataferal]

This thread is infuriating to read. Nobody seems to understand how resolutions function, are upscaled, nor that an emulator can alter a preset native resolution.

The screens more than make up for it though.

 

[Shogmaster]

News flash, if you're playing Madworld on your 1080p TV it's already being upscaled to 1080p. Actually, anything you watch on your 1080p TV is being upscaled to 1080p.

What the hell are you babbling about? There are a few 1080p native console games you know.

 

[Stinkles]

What the hell are you babbling about? There are a few 1080p native console games you know.

No! Displays can only display at a single, fixed resolution! Just look at VGA monitors.... oh wait.

 

[kinggroin]

HOLY SHIT @ Tatsunoko 720p!


If this emu gets perfected, or at least makes it to the same level as what we have with the current emus, then I'm going to have to connect my pc up to the Tv for sure.

Now, how do we make ISOs from the originals? Is that even legal?

 

[Sage00]

What the hell are you babbling about? There are a few 1080p native console games you know.

As well as all Blu-Ray movies.

Now, how do we make ISOs from the originals? Is that even legal?

I believe making one copy for yourself is perfectly legal, there's software to rip the DVDs.
Or if you really want to you could just run it off the disk.

 

[Blizzard]

As well as all Blu-Ray movies.


I believe making one copy for yourself is perfectly legal, there's software to rip the DVDs.
Or if you really want to you could just run it off the disk.

...only for a couple of specific drives can you rip them. I don't know if running off disk even works on those drives.

 

[bee]

and the broken mario galaxy

lots more at emuforums, mostly gamecube though, resident evil remake looks very nice indeed with a build with working aa

 

[Stinkles]

What the hell are you babbling about? There are a few 1080p native console games you know.

Actually, I think he meant any non 1080p source, but he's still a bit wrong.

 

[kinggroin]

Those screens look horrible. The jpeg compression really kills any benefit the increased resolution affords.

Ah, well

*watches TvC 720p video again

 

[Ashhong]

Honestly, I could care less and Wii is my primary system. Brawl looks just fine on a high-end TV and if I really want to see my games in true HD, I'll play my PS3.

That said, the videos I saw of this running on Kotaku looked pretty good. Only time will tell.

:lol what size is this "high end TV"? looks like a jaggy mess on all TVs that I've played it on over 40"

 

[kinggroin]

:lol what size is this "high end TV"? looks like a jaggy mess on all TVs that I've played it on over 40"

Jaggy mess?

Crts still exist ya know. Yeah, 40" and higher :0

Spoiler

still aliased, but def. not a mess

 

[EricDiesel]

Personally, I'm pumped about Wii emulation advancing so quickly. But probably not for the reasons you'd think.

I'm a handicapped gamer with limited mobility, rendering most Wii games unplayable to me. I've never played Mario Galaxy, No More Heroes, Madworld, and so on due to this. So if they make it so you can map Wiimote movement to button presses, I'd be extremely excited. It should only be a matter of months now.

And in 720p, no less? Sign me up!

(Note: I would buy physical copies of these games, and I own a Wii. I'm not big on ripping off game developers/companies.)

 

[Minsc]

no, when it's 3d graphics it's actually possible for an emulator to render internally at an higher res. point is, rendering wii games in 720p won't make them look a lot better, in most cases it will make their lacking in geometry and resolution of textures more apparent.
Better off playing the thing on a good CRT.

I'd say that image makes you about as wrong as one could be.

 

[OokieSpookie]

 

[Ashhong]

Jaggy mess?

Crts still exist ya know. Yeah, 40" and higher :0

Spoiler

still aliased, but def. not a mess

of course CRTs still exist, i have a 32" crt myself, but he said high-end tv. maybe its not a "mess" but the aliasing is really bad imo.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Hopefully Nintendo's next Wii revision can upscale. These look really nice (aside from the glitches).

 

[DeBurgo]

Yeah, I defiantly get it now, it would have made sense from start if I hadn't stupidly assumed the game decides the resolution not the console.

well, your initial assumption might not be strictly wrong because a game could possibly use the hardware calls any way it wants in any esoteric, bizarre way it desires. it could use the PS2's CPU solely for calculating character stats and the sound chip for sprite coordinates (I mean, maybe, for example, I dunno if that is actually possible). the thing is when you have complete control of the hardware calls you can INTERPRET those calls any way you want, as well, and use those calls to replicate whatever strange behavior the game is doing.

it is a basic property of information and it is (as you actually complained earlier) magical. though, generally the more unusually the hardware is used, the more of a pain in the ass it is to implement because it means you have to make exceptions. but most video games are not this bizarre, and therefore can be emulated and have different resolutions and effects added to them when being rendered.

also this is why people hate emulating the saturn because it is apparently chock full of esoteric hardware uses, and in fact the hardware itself is bizarre.

 

[Atcha]

Wii = Gamecube.

 

[eso76]

I'd say that image makes you about as wrong as one could be.

this is one of the few cases where the game's structured so that textures and most objects are always far from the camera. this kind of 2.5D games give graphic designers an advantage, being set in controlled environment they're able to predict what elements will be close to the camera and what elements will never get close to it so basically using more detail where needed by saving resources.
This does looks good in 720p; well it certainly looks better.
Games with more stylized graphics will tend to look a lot better than others, Zelda Wind Waker would look gorgeous in hd, while Zelda TP would probably look like everything is made of origami paper.
Jet set radio would look good, Mad world i'm sure looks good, but as a general rule i'm not a huge fan of increasing resolution in games which were developed for SD; higher res will just make models a lot sharper and make the lack of detail stand out much more.
Then again someone might prefer sharpness to the nice smooth and round look of a crt for sd games.

 

[Durante]

AARAARARHARHARALIRHALRSALHKLRHSALHKSRLHK

Reading this thread drives me crazy. GAF, PLEASE learn the difference between upscaling and rendering at a higher resolution. Here, I will help you:

Upscaling means taking an existing image (a 2D plane of pixels) and resampling this data to create a higher resolution image. There are many different ways to do this -- often not quite correctly called filters -- like bilinear, bicubic, lanczos or special-purpose algorithms like HQ2X. There are (usually rather small) differences in quality between these algorithms, but they can never add new data to the image. This is what a fixed resolution display does when supplied a signal different from its native resolution. This is what sub-HD games do on 360 & PS3.

Rendering at a higher resolution means taking the same source data (polygons, shaders, lights, textures etc) and rendering it to a buffer at a higher resolution than before. This increases the amount of information about the spatial structure of the scene (thereby increasing the quality of the final image) and can not be done starting from only image data. So it's impossible to have an external box or TV do this. This is what happens when you change the resolution of a PC game. This is what many emulators can do. (Note that emulators also have other ways of improving the image quality of the original game, like better texture filtering, adding AA or enabling vsync)

Here is a picture to illustrate this:

From left to right: original, simple upsampling, bicubic upscaling, "rendering" at a higher resolution.

 

[MNC]

News flash, if you're playing Madworld on your 1080p TV it's already being upscaled to 1080p. Actually, anything you watch on your 1080p TV is being upscaled to 1080p.

upscaling to 1080p =/= internal resolution at 1080p

Edit: ^^^^^

 

[webrunner]

One note: The N64 games on virtual console are rendered at a higher resolution then on the n64, they're the only games on VC that do that.

 

[MNC]

One note: The N64 games on virtual console are rendered at a higher resolution then on the n64, they're the only games on VC that do that.

What was the res for the original N64? Also, Project 64 has AA.

 

[Eteric Rice]

One note: The N64 games on virtual console are rendered at a higher resolution then on the n64, they're the only games on VC that do that.

Interesting.

Can Nintendo do that with normal Wii games (with a hardware revision, I mean)?

 

[Cobra84]

What was the res for the original N64?

320X240 for most games and 640x480 for "high-res" games.

 

[wolfmat]

Somebody show off RE4 (Wii) emulated on PC being better than RE4 (PC) *splode*