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Wii U Update adds Off TV play for Wii mode (but you can't use gamepad to control)

Cbajd5

Member
You gotta be kidding. This is the *EXACT* type of thing people said on launch when they announced "no gamepad for wii mode." Really, all it takes is for them to give a damn and do it. You're making technical excuses for a feature that would benefit everyone. You don't really have proof that they can't do it.

I'm pretty sure the only "excuse" people have made for this not happening sooner is that Wii Mode only has the functions of a Wii. If they could just "give a damn and do it" then the GamePad probably would have been a Wii add-on released back in 2010.

It's like saying the disc tray should be able to accept N64/SNES/NES carts just because they can emulate those games. They built all of the hardware for all of them after all!
 
The pad is essentially being treated as a TV. The Wii U is acting as a wrapper around the virtual Wii...a Wii that does not speak game pad wifi.

Your TV can overlay a menu over the top of the picture, right? That doesn't mean you can use your TV remote to play games with.

Nintendo didn't build your TV. These examples are *plausible* but shouldn't be floated. The same thing happened when the gamepad off-tv wasn't supported for Wii mode on launch. People floated these same excuses.
 

Regiruler

Member
Playing Sonic Colors with it was awesome but I don't know how often I will use it.

Off-topic, that intro sequence is still one of the hypest things ever.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Nintendo didn't build your TV. These examples are *plausible* but shouldn't be floated. The same thing happened when the gamepad off-tv wasn't supported for Wii mode on launch. People floated these same excuses.

You simply do not know what you are talking about.
 

crinale

Member
Looks like you actually need a TV to boot Wii mode, even if you only want to play on the gamepad. Anyone experience otherwise? Very inconvenient and in most cases useless.

Hey just walk into the room with WiiU and TV, fire up the game and go back to the room where GamePad belongs. It's not that hard.
j/k
 
I'm pretty sure the only "excuse" people have made for this not happening sooner is that Wii Mode only has the functions of a Wii. If they could just "give a damn and do it" then the GamePad probably would have been a Wii add-on released back in 2010.

It's like saying the disc tray should be able to accept N64/SNES/NES carts just because they can emulate those games.

Gamepad wasn't a product in 2010. You are creating absurd scenarios trying to deal with reality.

The reality is that they made the Wii U hardware and wrote the software for it, Wii included. If you are telling me that they are technically unable to get the gamepad to act as a CCP in Wii mode, then that's a pretty shitty design.

You simply do not know what you are talking about.

Of course. Because when Nintendo said "no gamepad off-tv in wii mode" and people questioned it at launch, they were met with the same response. "You don't know, Nintendo can't do it because this and that"

You'd rather say that Nintendo technically can't accommodate this feature on their own hardware than admit that maybe they are unwilling to put forth the effort currently.
 
People think everything is possible with a firmware update. You know, maybe we can get PS4 and Xbone backwards compatibility with a future update!
 

Cbajd5

Member
Gamepad wasn't a product in 2010. You are creating absurd scenarios trying to deal with reality.

The reality is that they made the Wii U hardware and wrote the software for it, Wii included. If you are telling me that they are technically unable to get the gamepad to act as a CCP in Wii mode, then that's a pretty shitty design.

It's because they're using completely different wireless standards. It's completely different than whatever excuses people may have made in the past.

It's like you're asking why you can't use a car radio to get an internet connection. You can listen to radio stations online after all!
 
The reason this is possible is because the Wii U has a seperate chip for streaming stuff to the Gamepad. Usually in Wii Mode, this chip is turned off, so it makes sense they could enable it through a gamepad firmware update to do a very specific function.

HOWEVER:

The Wii Remote is bluetooth
Wii games expect to receive a bluetooth signal.
The Gamepad has no Bluetooth

Sooo I'm pretty sure that's why you can't control Wii software with the Gamepad. And probably never will be able to without some update to the Gamepad's hardware.
 
It's because they're using completely different wireless standards. It's completely different than whatever excuses people may have made in the past.

It's like you're asking why you can't use a car radio to get an internet connection.

You're literally saying that they can enable the output transmission to gamepad, but not the input.

"durr Nintendo is so stupid, they are not able to do this one thing with the hardware they built themselves.. durr, don't be mad, they just can't do it."

If you just come out and say that it's not technically possible, we can end this discussion.

The reason this is possible is because the Wii U has a seperate chip for streaming stuff to the Gamepad. Usually in Wii Mode, this chip is turned off, so it makes sense they could enable it through a gamepad firmware update to do a very specific function.

HOWEVER:

The Wii Remote is bluetooth
Wii games expect to receive a bluetooth signal.
The Gamepad has no Bluetooth

Sooo I'm pretty sure that's why you can't control Wii software with the Gamepad. And probably never will be able to without some update to the Gamepad's hardware.

Gamepad has NFC, gyro, magnet, wifi but no bluetooth? Yet all other Wii U controllers use bluetooth.

That's a brilliant design right there.
 
The reason this is possible is because the Wii U has a seperate chip for streaming stuff to the Gamepad. Usually in Wii Mode, this chip is turned off, so it makes sense they could enable it through a gamepad firmware update to do a very specific function.

HOWEVER:

The Wii Remote is bluetooth
Wii games expect to receive a bluetooth signal.
The Gamepad has no Bluetooth

Sooo I'm pretty sure that's why you can't control Wii software with the Gamepad. And probably never will be able to without some update to the Gamepad's hardware.

It would be very easy to flip a couple switches in the Wii virtual memory to say "CC pro is attached on controller 1" and then hook the gamepad buttons in memory to CC pro's buttons. Just ask the guys who make Dolphin ;)

This was an intentional omission, not a technical one.
 
It would be very easy to flip a couple switches in the Wii virtual memory to say "CC pro is attached on controller 1" and then hook the gamepad buttons in memory to CC pro's buttons. Just ask the guys who make Dolphin ;)

This was an intentional omission, not a technical one.

Well shit, at least there is someone who can just admit it.
 

crinale

Member
It would be very easy to flip a couple switches in the Wii virtual memory to say "CC pro is attached on controller 1" and then hook the gamepad buttons in memory to CC pro's buttons. Just ask the guys who make Dolphin ;)

This was an intentional omission, not a technical one.

I agree with that too. I mean, back then when PS3 had PS2 emulation it wasn't like BT-based Sixaxis (or DualShock3) couldn't work with PS2 games.
 

Alex

Member
Excited for one second, coulda made Wii games a lot more appealing on a smaller screen, oh well.
 
just played some Skywards Sword this way too. pretty nice.

if you can't launch into it without the TV on though, that's something they'll definitely need (and be able) to fix.
 
But what if:

1. Tell Wii U to still recognize GamePad in Wii mode.
2. And while so, telling the GamePad it's a CCPro? Isn't the CCPro usable in certain Wii U games or anything in Wii U mode as the other way around? Wiimote is (BLOPS2)
 

Tybolt

Banned
It would be very easy to flip a couple switches in the Wii virtual memory to say "CC pro is attached on controller 1" and then hook the gamepad buttons in memory to CC pro's buttons. Just ask the guys who make Dolphin ;)

This was an intentional omission, not a technical one.
This sounds about right -- I don't know where people are coming up with this "but it's not bluetooth" thing to explain why it can't be patched in. Fact is that If they added it, they would almost completely eliminate the need for the $1 VC upgrades, and it seems doubtful Nintendo would risk losing money as opposed to maintaining integrity.
 
How would you sync/unsync the game pad? Set it as controller two if you wanted?

Does it have all the exact same motion inputs as a remote?

Would it fall asleep as the virtual Wii expects it to, and need reconnection when you hit a button?

What if any given game expects a signal from the remote's camera, and the pad doesn't have an equivalent signal to provide? You know, the games that say "point the Wii remote at the screen" and won't do a thing until you do. Sure, the pad has a camera, but does it work the same way?

What about all the games that say "please connect your nunchuck" and won't boot until they detect that? I couldn't boot up A Boy and his Blob just now without doing that. What about the games that would say "this game requires the remote, please disconnect your classic controller?"

Would Nintendo even enable it if they had to put asterisks all over the feature and say, "warning, the pad can only be used as a classic controller and nothing else, due to technical difficulties you cannot approximate a remote with it, so many games won't work at all?" Would the average Joe even understand those limitations?

Would it be up to acceptable standards of control, would it be lag free? Are you absolutely certain, given the layers of abstraction at play here?
 
Killer feature, that is what I was waiting for all along!!

I often use the gamepad and Pro Controller in bed, so no issue for me. I also use it on my desk, great to be WFH.
 

OmarLexus

Member
Welp, I finally have a reason to pick up one of those Retro Classic Controllers.

Anyone know if Devolution is still working or compatible?
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
This sounds about right -- I don't know where people are coming up with this "but it's not bluetooth" thing to explain why it can't be patched in. Fact is that If they added it, they would almost completely eliminate the need for the $1 VC upgrades, and it seems doubtful Nintendo would risk losing money as opposed to maintaining integrity.

They'd still have miiverse, controller remapping, screenshots and a few other things.
 
How would you sync/unsync the game pad? Set it as controller two if you wanted?

Would it be up to acceptable standards of control, would it be lag free? Are you absolutely certain, given the layers of abstraction at play here?

It's called services and features. That's their job to come through with them. There is some utility in the current update, but it's not as useful as other features they could have provided (or even other companies provide). I find it odd how when Nintendo omits or is slow to add service or feature, so many come to their defense. They don't sell products in a vacuum, there are other companies that offer various competing services and features.

Should I not ask for this from Nintendo just because people tell me that there are "technical hurdles" or I "just don't understand"? It's okay to wait 10 months for this update that doesn't even include folders?

I don't think this is too hard for Nintendo. Forgive me all for wanting more from them.
 

Darryl

Banned
It would be very easy to flip a couple switches in the Wii virtual memory to say "CC pro is attached on controller 1" and then hook the gamepad buttons in memory to CC pro's buttons. Just ask the guys who make Dolphin ;)

This was an intentional omission, not a technical one.

Yea I agree. Nintendo has taken intentional omissions with their control schemes before. I never thought for a damn second on whether I could use my Wiimote + Nunchuck to play Mario Sunshine and Smash Brothers: Melee. It doesn't matter whether remapping is theoretically possible. It just gets confusing at some point. The primary input method for the Wii was the Wiimote and that's the input they're allowing for backwards compatibility.
 
Don't mistake the fact that it's intentional to mean that there might not be a good reason for it... maybe they are saving it as a feature to tout when virtual GCN/Wii games hit the system? Maybe they didn't get a chance to adequately test hundreds of wii games to make sure there isn't a chance for a bug to pop up and decided to hold off on the one feature while getting everything else out to the public?

I don't buy them holding out over the dollar upgrade fee.
 
I don't think this is too hard for Nintendo. Forgive me all for wanting more from them.

You can want anything you like, just stop trying to claim that all your wants are easily achievable and mean ol' mister Nintendo is refusing to implement them for some reason.

Again: what about all the games that say "please connect your nunchuck" and won't boot until they detect that? What about the games that demand you disconnect your CC? Is it really worth confusing all your customers?
 
You can want anything you like, just stop trying to claim that all your wants are easily achievable and mean ol' mister Nintendo is refusing to implement them for some reason.

When did I say easy? People simply won't acknowledge that Nintendo probably could probably do this with some effort.

Are you going to take that tone when I bring up the issue of folders, too?

Again: what about all the games that say "please connect your nunchuck" and won't boot until they detect that? What about the games that demand you disconnect your CC? Is it really worth confusing all your customers?

There is a system to do everything. If simplicity was the goal, then Wii mode worked just fine without the update. If they wanted to add a feature, there is always a way to do it (both technically and to communicate it)
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Yea I agree. Nintendo has taken intentional omissions with their control schemes before. I never thought for a damn second on whether I could use my Wiimote + Nunchuck to play Mario Sunshine and Smash Brothers: Melee. It doesn't matter whether remapping is theoretically possible. It just gets confusing at some point. The primary input method for the Wii was the Wiimote and that's the input they're allowing for backwards compatibility.

That one would have been quite a bit harder as Wii's GCN BC has no hooks for the Wii OS at all while the Vwii does in fact generate error messages that are coming from the Wii U itself and has various hooks into the new OS.

If people keep demanding they'll either implement something or tell us it's impossible, but don't expect it anytime soon.
 

Cbajd5

Member
You're literally saying that they can enable the output transmission to gamepad, but not the input.

"durr Nintendo is so stupid, they are not able to do this one thing with the hardware they built themselves.. durr, don't be mad, they just can't do it."

If you just come out and say that it's not technically possible, we can end this discussion.

Yes, because the Gamepad and the Wii U are designed to do that. The WiFi output to the Gamepad is being kept on by some Wii U system process before it switches to Wii Mode and mirroring the output from HDMI/Component/Composite. This is done separately from the Wii Mode processes that handle the Bluetooth input.

The Wii has no way to process WiFi input in any situation. The GamePad has no way to send out Bluetooth signals. (Because if it did so then it'd be limited by the 4 Bluetooth controller limit and raise the price of the Gamepad for no reason.)

And I'm the one who's been saying from the beginning that it's not possible based on the technology used, you're the one who won't accept that. If anything's possible for a company based on effort alone then why won't people be able to play their PS3 games on their PS4?
 

Tybolt

Banned
You can want anything you like, just stop trying to claim that all your wants are easily achievable and mean ol' mister Nintendo is refusing to implement them for some reason.

I would also imagine that magically patching the system and making the Gamepad display the Wii mode and resize everything appropriately is actually the harder task here. From a practical standpoint, it sounds so bizarre to think that Nintendo did the hard part but won't do the easy one.
 
Tried it out with Brawl for a bit. Video quality's nice and it's a cool novelty, but the Wii Remote only-controls are kinda cumbersome. I'll need to experiment more later.
 

Daingurse

Member
I find funny how people defend this trash. Fucking useless for 90% of the userbase. =/

image.php


I don't really disagree with you at all, as this update had potential to be really cool for Wii-U owners (Gamepad support for classic controller/gamecube pad compatible games). But I fucking lol'd when I read your post.
 
Yes, because the Gamepad and the Wii U are designed to do that. The WiFi output to the Gamepad is being kept on by some Wii U system process before it switches to Wii Mode and mirroring the output from HDMI/Component/Composite. This is done separately from the Wii Mode processes that handle the Bluetooth input.

The Wii has no way to process WiFi input in any situation. The GamePad has no way to send out Bluetooth signals. (Because if it did so then it'd be limited by the 4 Bluetooth controller limit and raise the price of the Gamepad for no reason.)

And I'm the one who's been saying from the beginning that it's not possible based on the technology used, you're the one who won't accept that. If anything's possible for a company based on effort alone then why won't people be able to play their PS3 games on their PS4?

Others like KojiKnight disagree with you. It's more plausible to accept that Nintendo is technically able to manipulate their own hardware to do this than not.

When you say that the "Wii can't process Wifi" you literally are talking about the Wii hardware - not the Wii U with the Wii running inside of it. They clearly can get inside their own hardware and software and change it. It would take effort, but that's the whole point. People are stuck on the issue of "Nintendo can't"
 

OzPinoy

Banned
Your tv has to be turned on to play it off-tv with wiimote. Bugger I thought you could play it without any tv at all.
 

Cbajd5

Member
I would also imagine that magically patching the system and making the Gamepad display the Wii mode and resize everything appropriately is actually the harder task here. From a practical standpoint, it sounds so bizarre to think that Nintendo did the hard part but won't do the easy one.

You don't know what's hard and what's easy. Seriously.

One's using an output feature already built into the new system that works separately from pretty much everything else, the other is going back to a previous system and somehow making it interpret commands through a protocol it doesn't support.

Once again, I point to the "Why can't my car's radio provide an internet connection?" analogy.
 
Would the pad be considered remote 1, 2, 3 or 4?

Some games don't make player 2 active until you actually choose multiplayer, so maybe you want to set a remote to player 1 so you can use the pointer-controlled intro menu and have the pad as player 2.

In order to make it player 2, could you re-sync a pad that is always assumed to be a CC? Doesn't it tell you to press buttons 1 and 2 to sync a controller? I think you have to do this on the remote and not the CC...
 

Madao

Member
Welp, I finally have a reason to pick up one of those Retro Classic Controllers.

Anyone know if Devolution is still working or compatible?

yeah, it works.

the only problem is that homebrew channel stuff displays in 4:3 only.

Its broke currently, but I have no doubt it will get fixed.

for me, it was broken but then i put the SD card on my Wii, booted up a game to fool around, put the SD back in the Wii U to try again and Devolution worked again. strange fix but it got fixed.
 

Tybolt

Banned
You don't know what's hard and what's easy. Seriously.

One's using an output feature already built into the new system that works separately from pretty much everything else, the other is going back to a previous system and somehow making it interpret commands through a protocol it doesn't support.

Once again, I point to the "Why can't my car's radio provide an internet connection?" analogy.

I know you're trying to stand with this protocol crutch, but I think as long as I can emulate any past console on my PC -- work programmed by hobbyists, mind you -- with a single USB controller that was not originally designed for whatever system I choose to play, it's not unfeasible. Hell, under your logic, re-mappable controls in any game should be too complicated to be a thing, then. We should also be amazed that the Wiimote works natively on the Wii U as well, yeah?
 
You don't know what's hard and what's easy. Seriously.

One's using an output feature already built into the new system that works separately from pretty much everything else, the other is going back to a previous system and somehow making it interpret commands through a protocol it doesn't support.

Once again, I point to the "Why can't my car's radio provide an internet connection?" analogy.

This is so pointless.

1) The Wii U can do all the things were are talking about
2) The Wii is just code that runs on the Wii U hardware
3) The Wii Mode "sandbox" only exists because Nintendo wrote it that way
4) The Wii is capable of doing a lot more than what the O.G. hardware did for the end user because Nintendo wrote the software that way, and homebrew proves it the end user can do more

Nintendo can get write the necessary code to get all of the needed Wii U's hardware parts working to do what is being described... run a Wii game, display it on the gamepad, get input from the gamepad... focusing on the "Wii Mode sandbox" is misleading. The actual Wii hardware was limited by the Wii hardware... The Wii U is not.

The easiest example to prove you are wrong is that imagine if Nintendo launched the Wii U and introduced the "Wii Mode sandbox" and told you that it's a custom sandbox that runs native wii games and also accepts inputs from the gamepad. That would be the only "wii mode sandbox" you'd have ever heard of then. They create the sandbox and can customize it however they want.
 
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