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Will discussion of certain games be banned on Neogaf from here on out?
- Thread starter El Sloth
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You're pretty good. If you can get past your loathing of such subject matter, you could be the genre's Shakespeare!
When you shoot people in a videogame, you do it because it's... well... a game. You have enemies and fight for a goal and you can kill them. Usually, because these people have done major wrongs, or the person you are playing as portrays those people as doing major wrongs through some justifiable emans in the narrative. You don't think/nor do the designers think, "wow can't believe I murdered all those people" or "god I'm so happy I killed [x] amount of people of [x] race"
In this game you SEXUALLY TOUCH AND PUNISH UNDERAGE GIRLS AS THEY MOAN AND THE VIDEO GAME TELLS YOU YOU DID A GOOD JOB. There can be no similarities to simply shooting someone in a game to sexually punishing underage girls, when really there isn't any rhyme or reason to it. The game just straight up gives you girls in which you sexually punish girls, there's no other ways to think about it.
If you think sexually touching girls is the same as shooting someone in a game of CoD, I can't see logic being used as a normal human being.
Edit: Inb4 "but they're criminals! Those underage girls deserve to be sexually abused."
Sakura
Member
?
Are there times where under-age girl fanservice is not sexualisation or objectification...?
Basketball
Member
*Searching for a random google pic.*
Here's...uhmm...Naruwaga!
She looks young, doesn't she? Fear not, she's from an ancient race of alien and she actually have 700 years old at this point.
Ironically, it's exactly the point in this race's lifetime where they reach their reproductive phase. So she's waiting for you to rub tons of shit on her and spank her with it as well.
It's okay guys, she's 700.
bullshit
I'm saying the stakes matter. Dude wants to be super precise drawing lines about specific ages of consent. That's absolutely not a valuable discussion. "I'll know it when I see it" is clearly good enough in this context--it's even good enough for government work, when it comes to pornography.
People throw around like "argument" is a worthwhile end. Some arguments don't need to be had, people shouldn't feel compelled to "play devil's advocate". Especially when there's literally nothing at stake.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
That UUUUGHHH was to your I could care less part, if you haven't noticed, hahaha. Couldn't --> Could. It's one of my pet peeves
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I've never understood why everyone always jokes about the 1000 year old thing, it doesn't happen a lot in anime, I've even seen the Vampire plot used way more than that.
Is is because of Disgaea?
Is is because of Disgaea?
It sure is, but I'm not sure who's going to be on the side of arguing that child porn substitutes aren't filth.
Hahahaha thanks man, that got me laughing out loud!
This thread needs some levity, lolInfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Hahahaha thanks man, that got me laughing out loud!
Seriously use something thematically appropriate next time. You kinda ruined Aishiterze Baby for me.
This isn't the first typo from someone calling someone else's argument names, but it is the most ironic
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Yeah I mean like, Nowi is perfectly acceptable to be weirded out by and while I wasn't 'disgusted' by her in my playthrough, I did sort of subconsciously block her out of my mind.
Somebody arguing however that other characters or the general fan-servicey things in FE:A with blatantly adult characters like Tharja = CP because "it's a cartoon" is the line of thinking I was hoping people weren't having. There's a ton of western pin-up stuff I like and I'm not going to pretend it isn't pervy or quite often flat out porn (which I would never openly talk about here because GAF isn't my personal diary, which is why I still oppose dumb waifu/husbando shit here), but purely the medium it's in shouldn't dictate something that heavy.
I wasn't aware 'ephebophile' was even a word before this thread, though I'm kind of wondering what the general age of GAF is since I was a teenager when I first joined only a few years ago and it seems a weird thing to take the piss out of someone for if they're also around that 16-19 bracket. I mean clearly 30 or older is blatant playing with semantics, but a 21 dating an 18 year old for instance isn't all that weird to me.
Vire
Member
You have no problem in defending sexual child abuse games because it falls within the (disagree with what you say, but will defend your right to say it), but then as soon as I mention something analogous like hate speech. You say, "oh no, that's not acceptable."
Why? What's the difference? You said yourself your justification for arguing in favor of this filth was because of the fact that you will defend people's right to talk about anything on here.
You forgot /pol/.
I pity mods on 4chan though. Porn threads are hilariously common, especially during the late hours.
Chie Satonaka
Member
cosmicblizzard
Banned
As a fictional entity, no I don't believe so. It's a slippery slope though. I would hope the people buying it can tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Might even be useful as an outlet. I don't really know how it could be represented as a "satisfying" gameplay element.
Absolutely NOT. Real child porn should never be tolerated.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
RyougaSaotome
Member
I don't doubt that at all. I just didn't wanna make any definitive comments on that end since I haven't looked into it beyond seeing it was Imageepoch and let you "punish" girls.
The first point was enough to scare me away. =P
chaobreaker
Member
I'm surprised the ESRB even gave Criminal Girls a passing certification in the first place. This is the same organization that have GTA:SA an AO rating for having bad looking simulated sex minigames that could only be accessed with a gameshark. Just when I thought the ESRB was the most prude game rating boards out there, they gave CG a passing mark: A non-AO rating.
I am waiting with bated breath to witness the eventual Japanese import that gets the attention of western judiciaries.
I am waiting with bated breath to witness the eventual Japanese import that gets the attention of western judiciaries.
Hours Left
Member
Cool, I sent you a PM.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
giant eye fetishism
She looks young, doesn't she? Fear not, she's from an ancient race of alien and she actually have 700 years old at this point.
Ironically, it's exactly the point in this race's lifetime where they reach their reproductive phase. So she's waiting for you to rub tons of shit on her and spank her with it as well.
It's okay guys, she's 700.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't think animated depictions should be illegal because there is technically no victim. Strictly speaking, anyway.
I think it absolutely is morally repugnant and more than likely provides an outlet, and possibly a call to action, for people that might feel that way about real children and that's absolutely not okay. Considering that, I'd rather do whatever it takes to prevent that consequence.
I think it absolutely is morally repugnant and more than likely provides an outlet, and possibly a call to action, for people that might feel that way about real children and that's absolutely not okay. Considering that, I'd rather do whatever it takes to prevent that consequence.
I'm sorry guys, but I don't give two cents about the actual show's target audience. I just wrote 'baby manga' on google and took the first pic that made sense to me.
It was purely used as an example.
He's also named after a Yugioh GX character. Coincidence? I THINK NOT
Oh but if they're DRAWN six year old girls being sexually abused it's perfectly fine and is an outlet. They're just helping people out with their struggles.
Fucking disgusting.
Edit: USEFUL even fucking el. Who am I dealing with.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I can take the stupid racist comments and such because that's easily ignored, but every-time a creepy image pops up in an otherwise decent thread I immediately delete my history and back out.
GAF isn't anywhere near as bad, but I never browse it in public locations because of the people with little girl anime avatars. It doesn't matter what it's actually from, or if it's used ironically, the fact of the matter is anyone looking over my shoulder would justifiably assume the worst.
I feel like if you put all the info about Criminal Girls on a flash drive or some sort of drive, and time traveled back to 2005 when GTA San Andreas was under fire because of Hot Coffee, and showed gamers then that Criminal Girls was going to be a retail release, people wouldn't believe it.
Honestly the subject matter isn't what would make me agitated, its that some developers have probably held back on ideas or content because of that title getting the AO/Adult rating, making it not retail safe. Yet this game is allowed to be put on retail shelves.
Honestly the subject matter isn't what would make me agitated, its that some developers have probably held back on ideas or content because of that title getting the AO/Adult rating, making it not retail safe. Yet this game is allowed to be put on retail shelves.
The ESRB members do not play these games. It is up to those seeking a rating to submit material to be viewed as a basis for the rating. So sometimes things make it past them because they were not shown to them.
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it is an explanation for how certain things slip by the ESRB.
As far as I can tell (and I'm not willing to head to the official site to find out), the game is currently unrated.
The San Andreas thing was a big deal because the content was not supposed to be accessible even if it was on the disc, which is why had it not been found the game's M rating would have stood.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Like I said, I agree. I've actually had some pretty vehement debates on GAF about the topic myself, and I find the very notion of drawing a line for age simply ridiculous.
But I still don't think using terms like "a revolting excuse for a human being" is a good response. This thread's already messy enough with just a sprinkling of people lobbing genuinely nasty insults at each other.
that's what the word used to mean before creepsters coopted it to sanitize referrals their nasty ass fetishes or whatever
You're twisting my words, breh. Hate speech is not allowed on GAF, yet games like this are more ambiguous. Show me where I've been inconsistent.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
What if Criminal Girls is actually a sting operation?
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Resident Evil 5 isn't banned.
Why can't Japan creep up on grown women like normal people?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Well, there is actually a issue with eroticism and death, sexuality and power, something that has disturbed many modern philosophers. Sex and perversion as a game has been explored in works of fiction since centuries ago. Thought Criminal Girls seems to be just exploitative and without and actual commentary beyond pandering Otakus we should note the difference between reality and fiction as your train of thought seems to justify a lot...
Oh, it was a loaded statement. Sorry.
Oh boy
Personally i'm fine with hate speech and wish more people had the balls to be open about their racism instead of hiding behind dog whistles. It allows you to identify them instead of playing stupid "I have to watch what i say because he/she didn't explicitly say a racist phrase but we know damn well what they meant" PC bullshit. Plus, speech is allowed in the U.S. It's the consequence of what you say that is not regulated by law per se.
Here's the thing about the more clearly pedophile games out there, they don't MAKE pedophiles. Just like CoD or GTA didn't make criminals or murderers. Even without them we would still have pedophiles. It's an extremely taboo subject that I don't think we could get a valid conversaton about on GAF but I even wonder if playing these type of games may even curb some people's tendencies giving them an outlet for them. And if that were the case how would it affect people's opinions? That is a tangent discussion though, and like I said because the high emotions and taboo of the topic not one I think could be pulled off here.
A Black Falcon
Member
Huh? But Scalia clearly was in the right here -- he said that only real images, or images that appear real, should be banned, and not clearly-fake drawings or 3d renders!
I doubt that any states which do ban drawings could actually uphold their ban in court, considering that the one decision the Supreme Court issued on the subject clearly states that only real or real-looking children should be banned.
No, it is an American thing because of the First Amendment. No other country has as strong a defense of the right to free speech as we do, unfortunately. I strongly believe in the first amendment and think that it is one of the best things about America. Yes, it allows for horrible things to be said, but it allows for great and important things to be said too, which would be banned in other nations.
Okay, this is much better than a lot of the earlier comments in this thread. I hope that people keep this in mind when they repeatedly falsely claim that high school students are "pedobait" material, when in fact the definition of the term pedophile is '11 or younger only'. Criminal Girls does appear to have sexualized characters who are that young, sadly, and that's horrible and disturbing, but a lot of the games people on this forum wrongly attack don't.
Somewhat creepy perhaps, but no, the two are entirely different -- being sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children is a very distinctly abnormal thing that most people do not feel. Being attracted to highschool students and the like, though, who have gone through puberty? Entirely normal stuff. Humans have this issue where the species gets sexually mature well before it gets emotionally mature, which causes and always has caused a lot of problems, and this is one example of that.
Of course, historically, it was women who got the worst of things there -- since women reach sexual maturity first, in many cultures in the past girls would get married off in their early to mid teens, far before they reach emotional maturity, to men at least ten years older than they are. Now we'd call this disturbing, and it is because of how it exploits and oppresses the girls involved, but it was completely normal behavior for a long time... and that was so because of when sexual maturity happens.
Yeah, the inconsistency in GAF banning is definitely one of its greatest faults. Set standards and stick to them.
Vire
Member
You should probably fix your motto to:
"I will defend your right to say it, as long as it's morally ambiguous."
Ok, whatever...
Hint: It's not ambiguous at all, it's readily apparent that it's morally repugnant.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
FUCK CONTEXT. I NEED TO MAKE A POINT WITH A STRAWMAN.
It might be an elaborate ploy by Nintendo to take Vitas off the streets.
No remorse, total domination.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Look at it this way.
Child sexual abuse cases in Japan dropped SIGNIFICANTLY during the lolicon boom of the 70s. I also don't remember the exact numbers, but it seems there are something like 26 times (possibly more, need to find the quote) more child sexual abuse cases in America than Japan. That number seems pretty telling to me.
You can curse the material, but there's discussion to be had on the result of real world-related incidents.
I saw a documentary about sex life in Japan, it really is different.
As an extreme example, you can buy used student underwears on a street's corner shack like a magazine. :lol
Dragonborn
Member
Not that they need help doing that
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Yes. I would much rather those people have an outlet for their desires that doesn't involve an actual child. The only thing material like this does is offend sensibilities.
An argument can be made that such material can normalize the acts portrayed to the individual, but most of us have sexual interests. And most are benign. Some aren't. Some are at their core harmful. But we also know what happens when repression is the only solution.
I don't think the answer is to make every outlet illegal. I'd rather they sate their desires on fictional characters that don't actually exist rather than focus their attentions on real children. Same for those sexually aroused by depictions of rape or bestiality.
It's a really long argument is the point. One that I don't have any clear cut answer for. There have to be limits in place. And I seem to be on a roll lately for not ingratiating myself with the masses, but my stance is it isn't clear cut. We're talking humans here. What seems like a great decision on paper has a nasty habit of biting us in the ass later.
Thank you for taking the time to read a dissenting opinion. I hope it doesn't just immediately make you write off my argument. I am not arguing it should be discussed here (I made that stance clear in my earlier posts) nor even saying I'd buy the game myself. Philias are an interesting topic. Lengthy discussion to be had, and no clear cut cure all.
Mass Effect
Member
let's not do this.
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