-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wonder Woman removed as 'honorary ambassador' for UN after protests
- Thread starter Shaanyboi
- Start date
- Status
In case you wondered if I agree with your amusing display of stupidity, well... no. Shakira is UN goodwill ambassador. And yes, I have to tell you that because you wouldn't know.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
5'11" tall skinny white women is good for western audiences in 2016?
This is not the look that is achievable for most women, unless they can grow magically to 5'10" and get her genetics
it's a very outdated concept
travisbickle
Member
Old school Wonder Woman was cool.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I am actually quite surprised to see that people in GAF, of all places, are having trouble thinking why people would have a problem with this.
In many threads and discussions gaming side and off-topic, many times people have voiced that we need a great representative figure for minorities (and I include women in that since in many ways they can also be considered as a "minority") in various walks of life / forms of entertainment such as games, movies, etc, and yet when people voiced concerns about this suddenly many of us become befuddled?
It's especially more poignant since this the UN we are talking about, an organization that represent people from all world all over, not just a video game or a movie or whatever. Shouldn't this hold even more weight than usual? Can people not be concerned about making a fictional character created by huge commercial enterprise a centerpiece that represent a position that is symbolically representative to all women from all the world?
But... I guess in the end it doesn't really matter, this is not such a huge issue anyways.
In many threads and discussions gaming side and off-topic, many times people have voiced that we need a great representative figure for minorities (and I include women in that since in many ways they can also be considered as a "minority") in various walks of life / forms of entertainment such as games, movies, etc, and yet when people voiced concerns about this suddenly many of us become befuddled?
It's especially more poignant since this the UN we are talking about, an organization that represent people from all world all over, not just a video game or a movie or whatever. Shouldn't this hold even more weight than usual? Can people not be concerned about making a fictional character created by huge commercial enterprise a centerpiece that represent a position that is symbolically representative to all women from all the world?
But... I guess in the end it doesn't really matter, this is not such a huge issue anyways.
Valkerionseven
Member
Only thing I could think of. Seriously though, there is no "representative of the world" we all look different and are from different places. Just don't have one if Wonder Woman is offensive. Though getting all uppity about fictional characters is a nonsense point imo either way, but not the point.
This is exactly why trump was elected president
Bruce Springsteen
Member
yup, the endangered species of the white person, like Michael Moore would say about the fear of Trump voters
5'11" tall skinny white women is good for western audiences in 2016?
This is not the look that is achievable for most women, unless they can grow magically to 5'10" and get her genetics
it's a very outdated concept
I thought Gal Gadot was Israeli
Bruce Springsteen
Member
She is, but I can tell you with great certainty that when people see her they view her as a white western person, not someone from the middle east, hence the roles she's always casted in
Valkerionseven
Member
A Brazilian?
Only movie I've seen her in outside BvS is Fast and Furious lol. (thats just cause I don't know much about her)
Yup and I don't have a problem with it even as a white person. Because when minorities are complaining about "whites", they are referring the white people from imperial colonial countries like Britain, France, and the USA who have utterly destroyed so many other races and cultures in the name of civilization and capitalism.
Seriously, blacks were slaves. Native American were slaughtered for their land and profit. Chinese and other Asian had laws written against them to protect white society. Every European immigrant that came after the British, French, and Spanish were treated like shit and confined to slums because there were not the right kind of white. Look at the Irish- pale as can be, and still not white enough. Women and freedom, don't make me laugh.
Even when blacks were freed, they still had laws that controlled where they live, kept them poor, and restricted voting to the point it made the constitutional amendment moot. It took into the 19th century for a free democracy to allow women the vote, and the 60's for black civil rights to move forward. Our culture is built on the backs of migrant workers who we treat like shit in a modern form of serfdom.
And your complaining about people using white as a derogatory term. White people have absolutely earned the scorn other races have for them though white actions. People are not envious of white success. They are sick exploited to benefit white people period.
FallingEdge
Member
I was speaking more from a physique perspective. No supermodel is going to have that build.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
obviously the physique for a comic book character are going to be exaggerated, but it's still pretty much in line with a barbie doll figure, but with muscles
I don't want to be too blunt but it's kind of fact that white people are the cause of a lot of problems us minorities have to face on a regular basis. They're also the ones most likely to be blind to the privilege they live with and the plight of the people around them. Whatever political hell we have to live through for the next 4/8+ years is due to a rising white nationalist movement and what people have come to call the "Whitelash".
What you're describing isn't a coincidence. But it's a completely different can of worms and a discussion for a different topic.
I have a lot of personal complicated feelings about the subject I don't feel I want to or should share either.
Thank you for this.
I never liked her as a UN icon simply because her character reeks of US nationalism, just look at her costume lol
+1
Fantastic post; agreed, wholeheartedly.
+1
Fantastic post; agreed, wholeheartedly.
FallingEdge
Member
nah, not at all. WW physique is extremely possible. Women can achieve that look if they choose too.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
google images of Wonder Woman, please tell me which images are have physiques that are "extremely possible" for women. It's model body with model/Hollywood looks
FallingEdge
Member
the one you posted
This physique is totally achievable and again, I have never seen a supermodel with that body. Dedicated gym peeps, absolutely.
the_batman
Banned
the one you posted
This physique is totally achievable and again, I have never seen a supermodel with that body. Dedicated gym peeps, absolutely.
that's basically what most younger women looked like in the 80's, just imagine Wonder Woman in a sweater hanging from her shoulder, jean shorts and knee high socks
Bruce Springsteen
Member
the one you posted
This physique is totally achievable and again, I have never seen a supermodel with that body. Dedicated gym peeps, absolutely.
so, ~5'11" in height, long thick hair, perfectly toned and promotional body
yeah, extremely feasible for most women
maybe in Playboy
FallingEdge
Member
Why do you keep mentioning height? I'm talking about her build/physique. You have an extremely limited view if you think that look isn't feasible. Obviously they won't achieve a 1:1 copy, but you can have the thick quads and wide shoulders/delts if you train for it.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
you can't just ignore the height, that's like saying "why are you fixed on all models being tall?"
the entire image is based on the "ideal woman", and it's tall and thin, according to how she is portrayed in movies and comics
the_batman
Banned
so if she was 5'4", you'd be happy with it?
Bruce Springsteen
Member
I'd be happier with it as it's a hell of a lot more realistic of a height for women
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I can understand why some people would object to using a character with unrealistic proportions who has often been portrayed as an object of sexualization and fetishism. However, most superheroes of all genders fall under that umbrella, she is a strong female character who has been used to push themes of gender equality and female empowerment, and she is recognizable.
It was a flawed pick, but I think it would have been a net positive.
It was a flawed pick, but I think it would have been a net positive.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Most female superheroes sure, but most male superheroes being an object of sexualization and fetishism? That's a hell of reach
So we can't have 6 feet fictional woman characters
She's not meant to be realistic she's meant to be a superhero
This whole she has to be attainable idea is insane why can't we enjoy a fictional character for what she is and not many fictional heroes have the name share she does.
Do you know how many boys aspire to be giant ass bruce Wayne or clark Kent but never ever will reach that level of physical prowess.
And for her clothing I can pull up so many images of her in fully clothed outfits. It's a stylish choice to differentiate her from male characters.
Do we want her to dress like khamala khan or spider gwen are we gonna act like there's something with how she dresses because it's a skirt and breast armor (
I know this pisses off a lot of your because it's impractical but it looks cool so fuck it)
You guys confuse me so much on subjects like this
TatteredHat
Member
Where do you draw the line between inspiring and unrealistic then? I thought the whole thing was dumb to begin with, but I don't really see a solution to this.
SolidSnakex
Member
I think there's a big difference between what you're talking about there and what the person you're replying to is getting at. The complaint you quote ultimately unifies conservatives. Conservatives tend to be very religious and Christmas is very important to them. So, the idea that some business is "attacking" Christmas sets them off. It causes liberals to mock them, but it absolutely unifies them as a party. You'll see it all over Fox News and conservatives websites. This on the other hand does not have the same effect. It's not a liberal vs. conservative thing. It's a liberal vs. liberal thing. There's no unification in terms of messaging, it only creates a divide in the party. You can see it happening throughout this thread as well as across liberal websites.
It reminds me of what became a point of discussion during this past election. The so-called "liberal purity" test. The idea that even if a person or message has their heart in the right place, it doesn't matter if they aren't perfect. There's very much an all-or-nothing mindset for some liberals. And it's something that really isn't a good thing for the party.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Big muscly incredibly handsome men in skintight latex/tights.
Granted, that gets into the muddy waters of "power fantasy VS sexual fantasy", but the point stands that many male superheroes represent grossly unrealistic standards of beauty.
Prototype Viktor
Member
.
5'11" tall skinny white women is good for western audiences in 2016?
This is not the look that is achievable for most women, unless they can grow magically to 5'10" and get her genetics
it's a very outdated concept
I wasn't really focusing on her physical attributes actually but rather her ethnic presentations and attire in the comics mostly.
On the note of her being tall, muscular and athletic, I think it's safe to say she's from a supposed superior civilization of female warriors, but I don't think that's the most important part of her character personally but I'd say I have seen a lot of athletes have this build especially short sprint runners
What roles? I only know her from Fast & Furious, where she plays a Brazilian girl, and the DCEU, where she plays a girl from the eastern region of the Mediterean.
Great, simplifying history to make a point always ends well, at least in the past it did. If you really try to make this whole argument about race, well you are already helping Trump and his people, because it never was. The whole thing is indefinitely more complex, but of course race is just such an easy excuse to boil this down to a "white" bogey man.
For example slave trade. In the whole history of mankind there was longer slave trade then there was not. In some parts of the world there still is. That it is no longer a real thing is pretty much all because of the British. A "white" empire which actually stopped slave trade actively, not just ignoring it, but stopping; also thanks to the industrial revolution "white" people have started. The ended a several thousand year old tradition.
Pretending that the whole world was in a happy place and the white people just showed up and made everything worse is falsifying history. You just simplify thing because it helps your narrative, but than you are nothing else like a demagogue and on the same level as Trump. If you use history to create your own little world, ignoring everything you do not like, because it would bring in a lot of different brown and grey tones. Minorities were always suppressed, in pretty much all countries in the world. I could list stuff without end, like India, Burma, Japan, China, almost all African countries and so on.
Well I think everyone wants the continued active cleaning of all the unfair situations still left over. I don't think she's making false claims and I don't think you are either. When people say white people did it, it feels wrong because white people is an American ethnic categorisation therefore it's a race attack of sorts. Here's the thing, what people really mean when they say white people is a section of supremacist who seek to control and suppress through economic, political, legal and cultural means. It's one of the reasons I have always struggled with American categorisations but guess who made those categories??
I guess the point of contention is that the " solution" is to remove her. It would make more sense to promote other diverse characters as well. You'll never find one woman who represents all.
True, no one can represent everyone ethnically except that I have seen a lot of cases where people who are multi ethnic have been confused for many different things. They look white, Asian, black, middle eastern etc perhaps because they have a black gran dad who married an Indian who gave birth to a son who married a Chinese lady, get the idea. To me, having such ambiguous appearance flows with the narrative of this woman from another world who isn't one of our stereotypical narrative
excelsiorlef
Member
We can start with a real one.
Or one that hasn't historically draped herself in the American Flag.
There are plenty of real ones the UN acknowledges. The whole idea here is to pick someone fictional. This wasn't an either-or situation
Like Emma Watson, or Shakira? That would be great if we could get them to be goodwill ambassadors to the UN!
excelsiorlef
Member
That's the old Wonder Woman with the American flag. Modern Wonder Woman has now done away with that, which was poor form with that petition saying she wears that. They seem to be referring to Wonder Woman from the 90s and earlier.
You can't ignore/erase history.
excelsiorlef
Member
Or you know everything before Rebirth which was all of a few months ago.
You can't say let's celebrate 75 years and go well except her being steeped in Americana because we changed that a few months ago...
Also the stars are still there. They're just less prominent.
For the record I'm all for Wobder Wpman has an idol. She's one of the better female comic book characters.
But I also understand the point of view of those women, most it seems not American, who oppose this specfic way of celebrating.
I also believe this was mostly just to sell a movie.
broncobuster
Banned
The American iconography is because her mother designed it to be worn in America, sort of like a sign of peace. I suppose after the better part of 75 years of wearing it, the history and story of why gets murky.
I feel like removing her wasn't the right choice necessarily, maybe at this point in time but overall I don't think it helps. The people who protest do so on the back of some ignorance towards the character and I wont blame them, after all not everyone who works at the UN is a comic book reader ya. I feel what should have been done is to open a dialogue for making Wonder Woman a better representation for girls around the world. Nothing can be achieved by shutting down a bridge completely, but by continuous forth and back, we do eventually find ways to move forward
John Kowalski
Banned
Reminds me of "catgirls wear skimpy clothes because it's their culture"
- Status