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[Mr. B Natural]

Can I say "All of the above" to all of the pages of games already listed?

People keep mentioning MGS4, but to me, the series became a masturbatory abortion (I know that makes no sense and I don't care) when MGS2 came out and the fans LOVED the god awful story. I couldn't come up with a dumber plot if I tried. I'm serious, games like MW2 and the like have awful stories, but if I was paid to make a worse story, i could do it. MGS2 I couldn't. I could say that Raiden turns into a baby and is tortured with farts by the Patriots, that are just monkeys painted purple, for 30 minutes and it still would have improved the plot.

Make the story an allegory about chicken mcnuggets? Nope, still better. Much better, actually.
What if Otacon was actually Solid Snake the whole time? Nope, that twist would be an improvement from the other twists already in the story.
Raiden is actually a girl and is married to Vamp? No...not contrived enough.
Patriots are actually New England Patriots? No. Then the story would make more sense.
It was all a dream? No, too clever. Now I'm not even trying anymore.
See, I can't do it. It simply isn't possible.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

NBA 2k11.

There was no explanation for anything when I tried playing story mode. You were just expected to piece the bullshit contrived plot together.

Dribble the ball!? What is my motivation?

 

[Freshmaker]

So, for you Duck Hunt is the worst game ever...

The dog is a compelling character.

This thread is about games whose stories are moronic or other grave problems, not games with no story you don't like their concept.

Too many people limit their definition of story to stuff that's plopped out in written form. Actual textual interaction with a piece is far more involved than that especially in a video game.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

If you've ever read a book, then you'll easily recognize the fact that all video game stories are pretty horrible. It's not common to play a video game and think to yourself, "wow that game had a great story." People seem to confuse this with, "wow that game had a great story, considering that it's a game."

Most of the people defending the convoluted nonsense that is most game scripts must feel compelled to do so out of blind fanboyism, or they've just never read a real book.

Also I really hope some people here are just trolling.

I've read and continue to read plenty of books and there are still video game stories I would consider good. They're rare, certainly, and they may not be at the level of a Dostoyevsky, but well-written games do exist.

 

[Misanthropy]

Bad Company 2. Jesus Christ. 4 guys can seemingly overtake an entire continent without getting hurt but they apparently didn't finish elementary school since they can't speak in coherent sentences. Also, the likelihood of the Japanese in 1940 building an EMP bomb back when electricity wasn't that important (compared to today's need) is about as likely as me watching the second season of Game of Thrones. (not very likely).

 

[thanks]

I've read and continue to read plenty of books and there are still video game stories I would consider good. They're rare, certainly, and they may not be at the level of a Dostoyevsky, but well-written games do exist.

I would say that Shadow of the Colossus is the only game I can think of right now off the top of my head that has a good story.

 

[consoul]

Resident Evil: (Gun) Survivor.

I agree it was awful, but if we're going to head down the dark path that is the Gun Survivor series, then I think Gun Survivor 3 (aka Dino Stalker) takes the cake. My head hurts just thinking about it.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I would say that Shadow of the Colossus is the only game I can think of right now off the top of my head that has a good story.

I actually haven't played Shadow of the Colossus (waiting for the PS3 version), but there are quite a few games I have played with good stories: 999, Dragon Quest V, Machinarium, Planescape: Torment, Sam and Max: The Devil's Playhouse, Slouching Towards Bedlam, and Trails in the Sky for starters.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

If you've ever read a book, then you'll easily recognize the fact that all video game stories are pretty horrible. It's not common to play a video game and think to yourself, "wow that game had a great story." People seem to confuse this with, "wow that game had a great story, considering that it's a game."

Most of the people defending the convoluted nonsense that is most game scripts must feel compelled to do so out of blind fanboyism, or they've just never read a real book.

Also I really hope some people here are just trolling.

Again with the insults. Have friends with Master degrees in literature that have defended several games as having good stories. No, not "good stories for a game" but legitimately good stories.

I do disagree with a lot of their choices, but you get what I'm saying.

 

[thanks]

Again with the insults. Have friends with Master degrees in literature that have defended several games as having good stories. No, not "good stories for a game" but legitimately good stories.

I do disagree with a lot of their choices, but you get what I'm saying.

My problem is that even the ones that seem decent, would never hold up in another medium. They're too simple, unnecessarily convoluted, too derivative, or beat you over the head with about as much subtlety as a brick. Even if a story is deemed to be good, it doesn't mean anything if the writing and the way it's conveyed is just abysmal as is the case with most games.

 

[HK-47]

If you're comparing it to other media, that's true - the game mechanics and set pieces HAVE to come first, and then they hand it off to a writer and say, "tie this all together." It's kind of unfair to compare the stories even to comic books.

And let's be honest - it has zero effect on sales. Zero. The game we're citing as having the most incoherent story - MW2 - also is among one of the best selling games ever made. So what motivation do developers have to make coherent story more of a priority?

Once again we are generalizing. Maybe you havent played one of those games but they do exist.

 

[thanks]

I actually haven't played Shadow of the Colossus (waiting for the PS3 version), but there are quite a few games I have played with good stories: 999, Dragon Quest V, Machinarium, Planescape: Torment, Sam and Max: The Devil's Playhouse, Slouching Towards Bedlam, and Trails in the Sky for starters.

999 is a rare exception, being a visual novel. It is a good story (at least the right story path is good.) Dragon Quest V is also a good story, you are right on that as well. I'm not 100% through it, but I've been playing it and enjoying it a bit.

 

[HK-47]

My problem is that even the ones that seem decent, would never hold up in another medium. They're too simple, unnecessarily convoluted, too derivative, or beat you over the head with about as much subtlety as a brick. Even if a story is deemed to be good, it doesn't mean anything if the writing and the way it's conveyed is just abysmal as is the case with most games.

That sounds more like a problem with the games you are playing. Not to mention some of the best stories in many mediums are relatively simple, so that not exactly a problem.

 

[man/man]

My problem is that even the ones that seem decent, would never hold up in another medium. They're too simple, unnecessarily convoluted, too derivative, or beat you over the head with about as much subtlety as a brick. Even if a story is deemed to be good, it doesn't mean anything if the writing and the way it's conveyed is just abysmal as is the case with most games.

Not to mention that most game plots are just recycled and rehashed tropes and cliches from mainstream Hollywood movies. And yet, bewilderingly, there are gamers who try to claim that video game storytelling is light years ahead of the movie industry. Crazy talk.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

My problem is that even the ones that seem decent, would never hold up in another medium. They're too simple, unnecessarily convoluted, too derivative, or beat you over the head with about as much subtlety as a brick. Even if a story is deemed to be good, it doesn't mean anything if the writing and the way it's conveyed is just abysmal as is the case with most games.

I think you have to judge game writing on different standards (not "lowered" standards). The fact of the matter is it's different and even games considered by many to have good writing/stories fall into certain trappings that should be ignored. You don't find ways to justify why Link goes into houses breaking pots or why dead people in JRPGs can't be brought back with a phoenix down if they died in a cutscene. It isn't necessary. Yes, it requires more suspension of disbelief than in other mediums, but I don't think that makes it inherently worse.

And if you think Shadow of the Colossus has good writing/story, then there are many games with the minimalist approach that you should find good. Flower is an example.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Not to mention that most game plots are just recycled and rehashed tropes and cliches from mainstream Hollywood movies.

All tropes have been done before, that doesn't mean they can't be done well or in an interesting way.

 

[man/man]

All tropes have been done before, that doesn't mean they can't be done well or in an interesting way.

But they aren't being done in an interesting way by video games. Far from it. That's my point.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

You don't find ways to justify why Link goes into houses breaking pots or why dead people in JRPGs can't be brought back with a phoenix down if they died in a cutscene. It isn't necessary. Yes, it requires more suspension of disbelief than in other mediums, but I don't think that makes it inherently worse.

Actually Phoenix Downs aren't a case of gameplay/story segregation.

They don't actually heal being dead, they just help people who have been KO'd get back on their feet and wouldn't actually work on a dead person.

Also you are really selling games short by assuming stuff like that is a constant.

But they aren't being done in an interesting way by video games. Far from it. That's my point.

How do you know that?

 

[fossil coast]

My problem is that even the ones that seem decent, would never hold up in another medium. They're too simple, unnecessarily convoluted, too derivative, or beat you over the head with about as much subtlety as a brick. Even if a story is deemed to be good, it doesn't mean anything if the writing and the way it's conveyed is just abysmal as is the case with most games.

Shadow of the Colossus is hardly subtle or original. It's not even told terribly well - it jerks awkwardly between being totally coy and laying it on thick. I like the game a lot, and I don't think the story's bad, but it's not on the level of a bunch of games. Grim Fandango I'd put over it, easy.

 

[thanks]

I guess it's just a side effect of the relative infancy of the medium. I stand by my opinion that if you want good writing, then you should look at film, comics, or literature. To me, games are just very fun interactive worlds to get lost in from time to time.

I just thought of a game that proved my previous statement wrong, and that is Braid.

 

[thanks]

Shadow of the Colossus is hardly subtle or original. It's not even told terribly well - it jerks awkwardly between being totally coy and laying it on thick. I like the game a lot, and I don't think the story's bad, but it's not on the level of a bunch of games. Grim Fandango I'd put over it, easy.

Majora's Mask had a better story than Shadow of the Colossus? Definitely going to have to agree to disagree on this one, haha.

You're right, it isn't subtle, and it's far from original. Relatively speaking, for the medium it resides in, it is both of those things. This is what I'm saying.

 

[man/man]

How do you know that?

Because I know tripe when I see it. And I haven't played every game ever made, but I've played enough to form a general opinion about the state of storytelling in the industry.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Actually Phoenix Downs aren't a case of gameplay/story segregation.

They don't actually heal being dead, they just help people who have been KO'd get back on their feet and wouldn't actually work on a dead person.

Also you are really selling games short by assuming stuff like that is a constant.

There's a few series that do it. But yes, FF isn't one of them.

 

[ZealousD]

How the fuck was Metroid: Other M not on the first page.

I don't care when and where it eventually showed up. But it wasn't on the first page. That's horrible GAF. You fail.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Because I know tripe when I see it. And I haven't played every game ever made, but I've played enough to form a general opinion about the state of storytelling in the industry.

What's the least horrible game story you've encountered?

 

[fossil coast]

Majora's Mask had a better story than Shadow of the Colossus? Definitely going to have to agree to disagree on this one, haha.

You're right, it isn't subtle, and it's far from original. Relatively speaking, for the medium it resides in, it is both of those things. This is what I'm saying.

I thought better about it and edited. I do think it's better - especially under your criteria - but I also think it's something I don't want to get into a discussion about. It's definitely better than Braid, which I honestly believe belongs in this thread, for reals. It is positively ghastly and I barely winced my way through it.

I also don't think videogames are an immature medium at all. As a narrative medium, maybe, but I think narrative is a solution to a problem that videogames don't necessarily have so I don't think it's a massive consideration when deciding if games, as a medium, are mature or not.

 

[man/man]

What's the least horrible game story you've encountered?

I thought Half Life 2 had a decent breezy and pulpy feel to it. The narrative was non-intrusive and engaging at the same time. Not great, but leagues ahead of the shit that comes out now.

The problem is with developers trying to make these pretentious interactive movies AT THE EXPENSE OF GAMEPLAY. And then the stories they come up with are so poorly delivered they would be laughed out of a Uwe Boll production house.

 

[HK-47]

I though Half Life 2 had a decent breezy and pulpy feel to it. The narrative was non-intrusive and engaging at the same time. Not great, but leagues ahead of the shit that comes out now.

The problem is with developers trying to make these pretentious interactive movies AT THE EXPENSE OF GAMEPLAY. And then the stories they come up with are so poorly delivered they would be laughed out of a Uwe Boll production house.

So you havent played any of the games with decent stories, much less storytelling?

Also non intrusive? It fucking locks you in rooms to info dump at you.

 

[thanks]

I thought better about it and edited. I do think it's better - especially under your criteria - but I also think it's something I don't want to get into a discussion about. It's definitely better than Braid, which I honestly believe belongs in this thread, for reals. It is positively ghastly and I barely winced my way through it.

I also don't think videogames are an immature medium at all. As a narrative medium, maybe, but I think narrative is a solution to a problem that videogames don't necessarily have so I don't think it's a massive consideration when deciding if games, as a medium, are mature or not.

Did you not know that Braid was really about the Manhattan project?

I didn't say immature, I said the medium and industry is in infancy. Compared to films, literature, and even comics it has barely been around.

I agree with your statement about narrative being a solution to a problem that video games don't have. I never said I disliked games, or thought games were immature, terrible, etc. based upon narrative alone. Why else would I play games?

 

[man/man]

So you havent played any of the games with decent stories, much less storytelling?

Such as?

 

[Snuggles]

Such as?

Bloodlines? The Witcher?

I'm sure HK has some better examples.

Either way, your broad generalizations make you sound kind of ignorant. Also, you might want to look up the definition of pretentious, people seem to abuse that word a lot these days.

 

[man/man]

Bloodlines? The Witcher?

I'm sure HK has some better examples.

Haven't played those. Don't have a gaming PC yet, but I will soon and will definitely check those out.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Such as?

Vagrant Story

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

999 is a rare exception, being a visual novel. It is a good story (at least the right story path is good.) Dragon Quest V is also a good story, you are right on that as well. I'm not 100% through it, but I've been playing it and enjoying it a bit.

Indeed, if we were to go full-fledged into visual novels, I could bring up Umineko no Naku Koro ni, one of my favorite stories in any medium - but of course that's not really a game anymore since it has no interaction.

Balancing the requirements of gameplay and interactivity with a narrative is tricky, and one reason why the medium has struggled with its storytelling quality, especially in blockbuster titles. If you look around though, you can see a fair number of writers do know how to handle it, as seen in my earlier list of games. Most of them don't get the high-profile attention they deserve, sadly.

I thought Half Life 2 had a decent breezy and pulpy feel to it. The narrative was non-intrusive and engaging at the same time. Not great, but leagues ahead of the shit that comes out now.

If Half Life 2 is the best story out of the games you've played, I can see why you don't have a good opinion of the field.

 

[HK-47]

Such as?

System Shock 2 sans the ending?

A large amount of Infocom text adventures?

Sanitarium?

Planescape?

Vagrant Story?

Killer7?

The Love-de-lic games?

Pathologic and The Void?

Hell even Portal is a great black comedy short story in game form.

 

[fossil coast]

Did you not know that Braid was really about the Manhattan project?

So was Duke Nukem:Manhattan Project. Probably. I never played it. The point is, Braid is stupid.

 

[man/man]

If Half Life 2 is the best story out of the games you've played, I can see why you don't have a good opinion of the field.

I think you're misunderstanding me. HL2 may not be the most intricate, complex, and lovingly detailed story of all time, but the way that it's delivered is miles ahead of the idiotic on-the-nose presentation of other games. Vagrant Story might be an interesting concept, but I can almost guarantee that it's plagued by the juvenile excess and tackiness that is common in jRPGs.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Vagrant Story might be an interesting concept, but I can almost guarantee that it's plagued by the juvenile excess and tackiness that is common in jRPGs.

WRONG!

 

[man/man]

WRONG!

Ok, well I'll take your word for it. Shit, I think I can download it on PSN for 10 bucks.

 

[mt1200]

Couldnt even finish the game, got tired after act 4 or 5, its the worst jrpg i've played in the last years, 20 dollars wasted.

 

[thanks]

So was Duke Nukem:Manhattan Project. Probably. I never played it. The point is, Braid is stupid.

With this, I won't be wasting more time in this thread. I will, however, leave you with this;
http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Ok, well I'll take your word for it. Shit, I think I can download it on PSN for 10 bucks.

Just to be clear, when you say "juvenile excess and tackiness" you are talking about stereotypical stuff like anime teens saving the world in between bouts of melodramatic speeches right?

 

[man/man]

Just to be clear, when you say "juvenile excess and tackiness" you are talking about stereotypical stuff like anime teens saving the world in between bouts of melodramatic speeches right?

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I think you're misunderstanding me. HL2 may not be the most intricate, complex, and lovingly detailed story of all time, but the way that it's delivered is miles ahead of the idiotic on-the-nose presentation of other games.

I don't think much of the story or the delivery of Half Life 2. In particular, that Gordon is mute in a world of voice acting makes him impossible to take seriously as a character, especially when everyone else is praising him as one step short of a god.

Ok, well I'll take your word for it. Shit, I think I can download it on PSN for 10 bucks.

6 bucks actually. Take a look at some of the other games I mentioned too - Machinarium and Slouching Towards Bedlam are easy to get (the latter is free!) and can run on any PC.

 

[HK-47]

With this, I won't be wasting more time in this thread. I will, however, leave you with this;
http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136

Sounds like overanalyzing a simple story that isnt really that great in the first place. Or a pretentious message tacked on to the end of a simple story. Fantastic platformer though.

 

[jg4xchamp]

Too many games to count really. The entire medium is weak in the story department personally, but if I had to pick one plot that grinds my gears most. I guess MGS 4 or Indigo Prophecy for the sheer fact that it has Internet Mayans.

 

[man/man]

I don't think much of the story or the delivery of Half Life 2. In particular, that Gordon is mute in a world of voice acting makes him impossible to take seriously as a character, especially when everyone else is praising him as one step short of a god.



6 bucks actually. Take a look at some of the other games I mentioned too - Machinarium and Slouching Towards Bedlam are easy to get (the latter is free!) and can run on any PC.

Having a silent protagonist is a form of artistic license, it's a conscious stylistic choice that makes sense when you're trying to maintain the player's immersion. I think they pulled it off really well. The game managed to be enchanting but never took itself too seriously.

 

[Snuggles]

I don't think much of the story or the delivery of Half Life 2. In particular, that Gordon is mute in a world of voice acting makes him impossible to take seriously as a character, especially when everyone else is praising him as one step short of a god.

It's easier to develop characters outside of the main, and that's how I think it should be in most cases. The main is the dude that we put ourselves into, so sometimes it's best to leave that character open to interpretation.

For an example, Kojima went with Raiden as the main for most of MGS2 so that Snake could be seen from our POV, giving him a chance to develop externally. We were supposed to reach a better understanding of his character and motives by observing him rather than being him.

My point is, Gordon, or similar characters in other games, are not the focus of the story. They only exist to give us an objective POV of the characters and events that surround them.

 

[HK-47]

It's easier to develop characters outside of the main, and that's how I think it should be in most cases. The main is the dude that we put ourselves into, so sometimes it's best to leave that character open to interpretation.

For an example, Kojima went with Raiden as the main for most of MGS2 so that Snake could be seen from our POV, giving him a chance to develop externally.

My point is, Gordon, or similar characters in other games, are not the focus of the story. They only exist to give us an objective POV of the characters and events that surround them.

Except Gordan is the focus of the story. You are the focus of the story. And these people talking to these floating crowbar are driving me insane. I can play as character with their own personality. I can play as a character who's personality I shape. I cant play a fucking mute in a story with constant one way conversations.

 

[jg4xchamp]

I don't think much of the story or the delivery of Half Life 2. In particular, that Gordon is mute in a world of voice acting makes him impossible to take seriously as a character, especially when everyone else is praising him as one step short of a god.

I agree on the actual plot itself, and how it cheapens the whole mute "link to the game" thing. That said the general method is plenty effective. It's entirely interactive, and doesn't ever break the immersion of an experience the way cutscenes do.

For that I think it definitely deserves the praise. The actual plot itself? hell no.

Edit: not that Half Life 2 is the first game to do that method either. I'm just saying the method itself is very well done, and appropriate for videogames. In the same way that Metroid Prime's story telling is superb, but what it actually tells isn't really all that special.