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[KevinCow]

I don't know what to say to this, aside from the fact that it's a videogame and we play as the main character. What would you suggest instead? Should Gordon sit back as someone more plausible tackles those objectives?

Play as an average grunt just trying to stay alive, giving an outside perspective on Super Fantastic War Hero doing his thing?

That could actually make a potentially neat game if done well. Either played straight or as a parody, I could see it working either way.

 

[Snuggles]

Play as an average grunt just trying to stay alive, giving an outside perspective on Super Fantastic War Hero doing his thing?

That could actually make a potentially neat game if done well. Either played straight or as a parody, I could see it working either way.

Good point, but I dunno how it would work in the context of the Half Life universe. You could play as one of the rebels but those dudes are like fodder. It's only a matter of time until the combine sniper ends your sad little rebel life.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Gordon has credibility as a hero because of the amazingly heroic, one-man-army things he has actually done.

Can we drop that joke of a criticism now?


As far as the silent protagonist thing goes, it works great in HL2. It's not about how well it fleshes out Gordon or gives you a connection to him, because that's incongruous to the point of it. Gordon isn't a character, he is you.

 

[Tomat]

Seven hours into Kingdom Hearts and so far I'm inclined to agree with the negative opinions posted here.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Gordon is fine, but they really shouldn't have given him a companion/love interest. Watching Alyx fall in love with/develop feelings for a shotgun-toting brick is cringe-worthy at times. Too many one-way conversations to count. Poor choice (but then again, people love Alyx, so it's certainly not a popular opinion).

 

[molekiller]

So bad it retroactively ruins the entire franchise.

Couldn't agree more. Totally lost any interest in future games of the franchise because of this "thing"...

 

[Void Insanity]

Metroid Other M.

 

[beril]

Silent protagonists are a delicate thing. I've always thought Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger handle it perfectly and zelda generally does it pretty well too.

In Half Life it's harder to suspend disbelief simply because of the voice acting. It's easier to accept a mute hero and when the storytelling is more abstracted and it's just text. Also it helps if all the dialogue isn't about you; Dragon Quest is usually all about the NPCs and in Chrono Trigger your party members are way more important to the story than Crono.

Still there are games that does it far worse than Half Life. In Breath of Fire 4 you feel like a retarded child when your party member are discussing your future while Ryu just sits there quietly staring blankly into space. And some games totally misses the point about having a silent protagonist and still have the main character act totally on his accord in cutscenes.

 

[Deadceptor]

Infinite Undiscovery

I seriously considered ditching this game when the "I'm your father" plot twist came. Such an awful piece of shit.

 

[Finalow]

mmmh, KH2 and Persona 4.

 

[OneMoreQuestion]

mmmh, KH2 and Persona 4.

Chie's gonna kick your ass >

 

[Laughing Banana]

Gordon has credibility as a hero because of the amazingly heroic, one-man-army things he has actually done.

Can we drop that joke of a criticism now?


As far as the silent protagonist thing goes, it works great in HL2. It's not about how well it fleshes out Gordon or gives you a connection to him, because that's incongruous to the point of it. Gordon isn't a character, he is you.

Pfft, if he is not me as evident in the fact that I would prefer to shove Alyx the first chance I get.

And I disagree with the "Gordon isn't a character" thing. If he isn't, Valve sure like to pretend that he is a character with other characters speaking to him, Alyx blushing to him, or whathaveyou.

People should accept that although the gameplay is awesome, the story and characters of Half-Life series are not that excellent

 

[AniHawk]

jak ii has one of those rare stories where it's not only terrible, but it hurts the actual game as a game. because of the setting, because of the tone, and because of where the story wanted to go, it's no longer a platformer (although it confusingly has good platforming the few times you'll do so), but this frankenstein's monster of different genres.

metroid: other m is similarly bad, although it stuck to one genre for the most part, so there was some focus. the story's effect on gameplay and pacing was more due to the lack of a skip button and the removal of accomplishment whenever a new move was unlocked.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Mindjack comes to mind, literally nothing is explained and you don't know the protaginist' name until over an hour into the game.

 

[Sevket-Erhat]

So much potential wasted

The cover says it all

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Context: HL2 being discussed in thread "worst game story ever"

Possibility: unlikely

Is this happening as of right now: yes

Is this real life: is this real life?

 

[dc89]

Whoa. Does GAF hate MGS4?

 

[Valnen]

Whoa. Does GAF hate MGS4?

Looks like it. I find such an idea kind of bizarre. I thought it was awesome.

 

[Yoshichan]

Whoa. Does GAF hate MGS4?

Huh? MGS4 had the biggest backlash in GAF history... even worse than GTAIV.

 

[EatChildren]

Whoa. Does GAF hate MGS4?

A clusterfuck of utterly dreadful plot points and a hilariously unnecessary ending will do that to most folk.

 

[zoukka]

A clusterfuck of utterly dreadful plot points and a hilariously unnecessary ending will do that to most folk.

I'm still bitter about getting banned, when I stated this fact right after completing the game day1. The community wasn't ready yet

 

[kurtrussell]

For me, it has to be Killer 7. Loved the game to pieces and at some parts it scared the bejeeeesus out of me, but I still have absolutely no clue what was happening in it for the most part.

I got the whole idea of controlling some kind of entity who could take one of seven different forms to get a job done, but everything else... .wah? Even the tiny little things like why did I have to use a CCTV to change persona? I know it's a gameplay mechanic, but the reasons why were never really explained at least, not in a way that was blatant enough for my idle Western mind.

I also objected to having the confusing story drip fed to me, it felt like I'd turned on an HBO serial 45 minutes too late and was just trying to pick up all the threads to understand what was happening....

 

[sohois]

Whoa. Does GAF hate MGS4?

'GAF' also made MGS4 its goty, so perhaps its best to not consider GAF as one entity.

 

[soldat7]

Whoa. Does GAF hate MGS4?

As time goes on, it gets worse. I loved it but the story didn't settle well with me, especially towards the end. Still an amazing game, though; GAF GOTY 2008 if I'm not mistaken.

I hope someone has mentioned Lost Planet, because that was one of the worst stories I've ever experienced.

 

[jjasper]

When I think of MGS4 this is really all that comes to mind

 

[Valravn]

Heavy Rain.

When you think about it, the story doesn't make sense at all! I sense a recurring theme here; look at Indigo Prophecy that game started good but ended in total nonsense. When that Matrix fight started i almost threw my controller away. But since i needed that controller to play other games, i didnt.

 

[Majmun]

I'd say the Kingdom Hearts saga.

I love the games, but the story is pretty...bad.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384047

Bebpo :bow

 

[viewtifulsub]

For me, it has to be Killer 7. Loved the game to pieces and at some parts it scared the bejeeeesus out of me, but I still have absolutely no clue what was happening in it for the most part.

I got the whole idea of controlling some kind of entity who could take one of seven different forms to get a job done, but everything else... .wah? Even the tiny little things like why did I have to use a CCTV to change persona? I know it's a gameplay mechanic, but the reasons why were never really explained at least, not in a way that was blatant enough for my idle Western mind.

I also objected to having the confusing story drip fed to me, it felt like I'd turned on an HBO serial 45 minutes too late and was just trying to pick up all the threads to understand what was happening....

All the pieces of the Killer7 plot are laid out on the table for the most part, excluding the previous Grasshopper Manufacture title references (the moon, sumio = garcian, etc). It was just a matter of putting the pieces together and picking up all the various symbolism.

Regarding the CCTV transformation. It was just use of imagery to portray

Spoiler

Garcian's dissociative identity disorder, and how he was able to recall the various personalities

.

 

[LakeEarth]

When I think of MGS4 this is really all that comes to mind

"Snake, it's my turn to protect you!"
(10 minutes later)

 

[Radogol]

When you think about it, the story doesn't make sense at all!

That's because an explanation for pretty much everything was cut from the final game.

Because it was stupid.

And supernatural.

So there. Damned if you do, damned if you don't (or you could just write a good story in the first place).

 

[The Librarian]

Except Gordan is the focus of the story. You are the focus of the story. And these people talking to these floating crowbar are driving me insane. I can play as character with their own personality. I can play as a character who's personality I shape. I cant play a fucking mute in a story with constant one way conversations.

Alyx is the main character of Half-Life 2 and episodes, not Gordon.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Context: HL2 being discussed in thread "worst game story ever"

Possibility: unlikely

Is this happening as of right now: yes

Is this real life: is this real life?

'Cept the context isn't people saying it's the worst game story ever, just that it ain't all that good.

Gordon has credibility as a hero because of the amazingly heroic, one-man-army things he has actually done.

Can we drop that joke of a criticism now?

Not really.

Because the one man army thing was blatantly implausible in the first place(unless the suit does more than just work as armor, in which case why not put it on someone who's already a competent fighter?), people just go with it because they....do I guess.

 

[schick85]

Heavy Rain.

When you think about it, the story doesn't make sense at all! I sense a recurring theme here; look at Indigo Prophecy that game started good but ended in total nonsense. When that Matrix fight started i almost threw my controller away. But since i needed that controller to play other games, i didnt.

You were literally going to toss a working controller into a trash bin simply because a game sucked? Okay, I don't get it.

 

[Valravn]

Dont take that sentence too literally.

Im now reading that sentence (engrish derp) again: I didnt want to throw it in the trash bin, i wanted to throw the controller out of frustration. A few games had that effect on me; Fifa 11 was the worst.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Alyx is the main character of Half-Life 2 and episodes, not Gordon.

Oh please.
Alyx in episode 1 is doing what? Oh right, she does show up for the first 5 minutes. Hl2 she's just hanging around because she can. She could not even be there and it wouldn't do anything for or against the plot. Gordon's the hero. Gordon's the one actually doing things, like anything in the story. Why he's doing it? Because other people are telling you to and because you can't not do anything else. And most of the time, it isn't Alyx even giving direction or purpose to the plot.

They injected her into episode 2 because people liked her and they gotta try to get somewhere with this mess.

HL2's story is awful. Case in point, we got people calling Alyx the main character.

And the reason why Gordon is a silent protoganist is because it's a legacy thing with HL1. It worked with HL1 as there were very few times you could talk to a human being. In hl2, you spent what felt like hours stuck in a space with characters yapping at you with no reply. It didn't work. It doesn't work.

 

[sonicmj1]

Oh please.
Alyx in episode 1 is doing what? Oh right, she does show up for the first 5 minutes. Hl2 she's just hanging around because she can. She could not even be there and it wouldn't do anything for or against the plot. Gordon's the hero. Gordon's the one actually doing things, like anything in the story. Why he's doing it? Because other people are telling you to and because you can't not do anything else. And most of the time, it isn't Alyx even giving direction or purpose to the plot.

They injected her into episode 2 because people liked her and they gotta try to get somewhere with this mess.

HL2's story is awful. Case in point, we got people calling Alyx the main character.

And the reason why Gordon is a silent protoganist is because it's a legacy thing with HL1. It worked with HL1 as there were very few times you could talk to a human being. In hl2, you spent what felt like hours stuck in a space with characters yapping at you with no reply. It didn't work. It doesn't work.

I'm not going to say that Alyx is the main character, but she was in every single minute of Episode 1. She's with you pretty much constantly.

Gordon is definitely the protagonist, but Alyx does a lot of protagonist-like stuff in Episode 1. Because she's always with you, she can react to events, build the world, and talk to people when you can't.

I think the only reason we're discussing Half-Life 2 at all is because someone said it was a story they liked, so it's weird it's still a topic in the "Worst Story Ever" thread.

 

[Monroeski]

'GAF' also made MGS4 its goty, so perhaps its best to not consider GAF as one entity.

Seems to me (anecdotally, of course) that a huge number of the people that love the game still recognize that the story is garbage, though.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

I stopped play Final Fantasy: Crisis Core because the story was so horrible. There's this war thing at the start and this guy goes missing and then grows wings, I just couldn't get into it despite the fact that I like FFVII.

 

[man/man]

Context: HL2 being discussed in thread "worst game story ever"

Possibility: unlikely

Is this happening as of right now: yes

Is this real life: is this real life?

The only reason HL2 is being discussed in this thread is because I brought it up as an example of a game that tells a story without being heavy-handed, cheesy, and self-serious.

 

[Lard]

mmmh, KH2 and Persona 4.

SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SolsticeZero]

I stopped play Final Fantasy: Crisis Core because the story was so horrible. There's this war thing at the start and this guy goes missing and then grows wings, I just couldn't get into it despite the fact that I like FFVII.

I can agree with that. In fact, the only reason I played it and beat it was because I was 10.5 days without power during hurricane Ike, and it was all I had left after beating Hotel Dusk.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Seems to me (anecdotally, of course) that a huge number of the people that love the game still recognize that the story is garbage, though.

I actually found the story to be really entertaining. Lots of cheese and melodrama, but it was stupidly satisfying.

 

[HK-47]

But that misses the whole potential of interactive storytelling then. The mute protagonist is a blank slate onto which the player can project his/her own set of ideas while taking in the narrative and characters from his own perspective. He is only so much defined as that you know his backstory and adjust your persona accordingly.

Videogames can and should be doing more than what books, movies and theater do. They have the possibility of first hand experience (albeit simulated yeah) and are actually able to deliver a story the way that movies and books simply can't.

Still, I wouldn't argue that a fleshed out main character that is introduced with movies and spoken lines is inherently worse, it's just that such an approach isn't exactly pushing the interactive possibilities of videogames, and could probably be done in any other media form.

What is more? You cant be more than any other medium. In JRPGs the characters are prefined, yet I can slip into the role if I can relate. The silent protagonist is often more jarring than predefined one, cause at least they act human. A silent protagonist only works in minimalist works, in isolation or when you can shape the character. Not in a linear shooter with other characters that also interact with the protagonist. Its a bad illusion.

If he is going to be me, I think I should expect some degree of control. I have none. The characters make assumptions about Gordon. Clearly there must be something they are basing their characterization on. We are talking about interactivity, yet all I can do is through my gun.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IilQnuwc7Z0

 

[sonicmj1]

Not really.

Because the one man army thing was blatantly implausible in the first place(unless the suit does more than just work as armor, in which case why not put it on someone who's already a competent fighter?), people just go with it because they....do I guess.

The one-man army thing is implausible, but it happened in HL1. Gordon wound up with that armor sort of by accident in that game, but he proved his ability by fighting off the invasion.

Are you suggesting the characters should have ignored the events at Black Mesa which proved how skilled he was as a fighter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IilQnuwc7Z0

I think that MK4 is in "so bad it's good" territory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNkRvcUn6VM

 

[man/man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IilQnuwc7Z0

That sounded like an authentic Tony Almeida "arright" to me.

 

[Kong Fisso]

Oh please.
Alyx in episode 1 is doing what? Oh right, she does show up for the first 5 minutes. Hl2 she's just hanging around because she can. She could not even be there and it wouldn't do anything for or against the plot. Gordon's the hero. Gordon's the one actually doing things, like anything in the story. Why he's doing it? Because other people are telling you to and because you can't not do anything else. And most of the time, it isn't Alyx even giving direction or purpose to the plot.

They injected her into episode 2 because people liked her and they gotta try to get somewhere with this mess.

HL2's story is awful. Case in point, we got people calling Alyx the main character.

And the reason why Gordon is a silent protoganist is because it's a legacy thing with HL1. It worked with HL1 as there were very few times you could talk to a human being. In hl2, you spent what felt like hours stuck in a space with characters yapping at you with no reply. It didn't work. It doesn't work.

Also, the "Alyx is the main character"-thing is an odd argument since Alyx is a shitty character as well. So instead of a mute we get the mutes tiresome love interest? Yeah, that's much better.

 

[djtiesto]

Gears of War series, so bad... not to mention the most unlikeable cast of characters ever.

Also, anything Star Wars or Harry Potter related... can't really stand these 2 things (sorry).

Most dudebro military series, laughably unrealistic geopolitics doesn't really interest me much.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The one-man army thing is implausible, but it happened in HL1. Gordon wound up with that armor sort of by accident in that game, but he proved his ability by fighting off the invasion.

Are you suggesting the characters should have ignored the events at Black Mesa which proved how skilled he was as a fighter?

I'm saying that HL2's conceptualization of the hero is fundamentally flawed because HL1's conceptualization of the same hero was already flawed.

People accept Gordon's badassery because that's how it was in the first game. But does it even make sense in the first game or is it easier to accept because we, the player, are controlling him?

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

He is personally responsible for the destruction of the citadel and the rallying of rebel forces, yet he can't even say "hi".

"Dr. Breen you stinking alien breath, I'm gonna kill you, shit bird."
EPIC.