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[Kai Dracon]

Watching the trailer a few more times, I think this is what causes the biggest problem with the Na'vi: giant anime eyes. This makes it seem at a glance like a cuddly, exaggerated CG kids movie whenever the Na'Vi are on the screen.

The really old concept art, with more creepy, eel-like Na'Vi with slitted eyes and angular faces might have worked better.

Of course, based on the idea that we have not /seen/ real live aliens so don't know what to expect in real life, if aliens showed up with giant anime eyes then hell, everyone might suffer massive cognitive dissonance at what they saw with their own two eyes in reality.

But in the context of a movie like this, it's the eyes doing a lot of the damage.

Also, having a "friendly" unmodified human voice ("It's great!") coming out of an 8 foot tall man with a HUGE throat does not at all read as natural and makes it even more cartoonish.

 

[Fatalah]

So there's no flash streaming version of the trailer or?

 

[MisterAnderson]

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Yes, you need some kind of human-like features, like eyeballs and or a mouth, but that's about it. Pixar (who gave completely convincing emotions to a desk lamp) and many many others would completely disagree with your premise.

Convincing emotions, and emotions you can completely relate too are two different things. Sure you can animate a lamp to react to a loved one dying, and I'm sure given the right character development/circumstances the audience could feel the weight of it properly, but it could never match the weight of a face that has similar human traits. It's just how our brains work. Seeing two of District 9's aliens leaning in for a kiss while, like I said, definitely would have emotional weight to it, just doesn't come close IMO to what's possible when using a face that has a human resemblance.

And I really dig that the alien's have big eyes. Makes the emotions even more impactful. I guess it's just me but the aliens are what has me most excited about the movie after watching that trailer. I connected with every frame that they were in, and it was a delight to feel emotions on such a level from CG characters for a change.

 

[dmshaposv]

CG snob talk aside, I thought Sully's avatar did indeed remind me of Worthington when he says this is great - albeit furry version.

I also liked the shots with neytri - where she is glancing over the leaves and crying. Somehow the motion capture does channel how I'd expect Saldana to emote.

At least the aliens don't look spielbergian.

 

[cory]

Someone in the lighting department was asleep when they cleared this shot for the trailer:

Reminds me of Voldemort from Sorcerer's Stone.

 

[DrForester]

Looks like it's going to be fun, hopefully tomorrows preview will make the Navi look better. Can't say I like their look in the trailer. They just look... well, fake. And that's not a knock against the CGI, they look fine in that regard. Just too cartoonish.

 

[BattleMonkey]

So is this movie supposed to make you think it's real or that the world is very clean and made of CG?

 

[bluescreenoflife]

I can't believe that people are seriously fucking equating "Person in the trailer has giant yellow eyes that are too far apart and blue skin with radiosity properties that I've never seen so my brain tells me that it doesn't look real" with "They did a shitty job with the CGI and it wouldn't look like this in real life".

Haters gonna hate.

 

[Yackie]

Uncanny Valley FTL. I'll probably end up seeing this anyway, but the whole time I will probably be annoyed by the fact that I can tell the aliens are CGI and they could have just gone with real people instead. Booo :\

 

[dmshaposv]

Man I also can't wait for the Official Armound White (tm) review of the film.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I thought I was watching a WOW movie. I'm I crazy? maybe. Can't wait to see it though, with the neat-o glasses.

 

[Zeliard]

FFS, what exactly is it that you think "average" people do? Every single CG-laden summer blockbuster that sells 100s of millions in tickets, who are those sales to, not average people? You're building one hell of a strawman here.

Sigh. I don't know why I keep arguing with "GAF's biggest wanker", especially when he continually misconstrues my points. Oh well.

I'm not saying they never watch CGI movies, obviously - I'm saying we have considerably more exposure to it because we pay attention to the CGI. The average movie goer does not. To them, it's just "special effects", and it's as basic as that. Many don't know, to this day, what CGI even stands for.

I like how you ignored the example of Bit-Bit bringing up his co-workers who had no idea how the hell the floating mountains were done, not realizing it's CG. That is precisely the type of "average movie goer" I'm referring to, not someone who watches the trailer and then deliberates on the lighting method. What exactly are you struggling so mightily with?

No, I am not. What I compared it to was my visual sense of reality. Seeing that the movie does not seem to involve some reality so far flung from the natural laws of our own that they cannot be compared, compare I did.

Floating mountains and imbuing somebody's consciousness into an alien/human hybrid are not "far flung from the natural laws of our own"?

Send me some of that delicious weed you've been smoking. Avatar is escapist fantasy. It's not exactly going for versimilitude (perhaps you're confusing it with District 9?)

The only thing you can really analyze from a human respective is the way the Avatars and Na'vi move around, since they are built similarly to humans. Catching them in short 2-second bursts isn't really enough to gauge that properly. We have to see them interacting with their environment and with other people, especially humans.

There is absolutely nothing in this trailer that conveys wonky physics or whatever the hell you're even implying.

Someone in the lighting department was asleep when they cleared this shot for the trailer:

Reminds me of Voldemort from Sorcerer's Stone.

That particular scene happens so quickly that you can't possibly see her face without pausing it. It would have been stupid of them to waste too much time making her look great right there (like a video game designer putting high-res textures so far off that you can't even see them).

 

[Chipopo]

I can't believe that people are seriously fucking equating "Person in the trailer has giant yellow eyes that are too far apart and blue skin with radiosity properties that I've never seen so my brain tells me that it doesn't look real" with "They did a shitty job with the CGI and it wouldn't look like this in real life".

Haters gonna hate.

I wonder how many times this completely ridiculous defense will pop up in this thread.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

this thread turned into pre E3 07 KZ2 debate garbage

 

[bengraven]

Anyone else having problems downloading this from Apple?

I was willing to give it a second chance at my work computer, but it keeps crashing iTunes and won't download.

 

[Clevinger]

Someone in the lighting department was asleep when they cleared this shot for the trailer:

Reminds me of Voldemort from Sorcerer's Stone.

Cameron did the impossible; he made Zoe Saldana look ugly.

 

[vooglie]

Just watched the trailer -- it fucking delivered. I'm wowing over the imagery, christonashitstick.

 

[Ryu]

http://tv.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/beauty-and-the-beast-tv.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

[img]http://i29.tinypic.com/o0c4fa.jpg

fix'd.

Silliness aside, trailer seems decent. Can't wait to see it.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I wonder how many times this completely ridiculous defense will pop up in this thread.

It's only a ridiculous defense if you are of the mindset that "your opinion" is the correct opinion.

This is a teaser to a movie guys... let's not lose track of what we are critiquing.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Zeliard, haters gonna hate. You'll be here all day if you try to defend this film from everybody on GAF. You even have people saying the Na'vi could have been done with humans. There is no reasoning, its an incredible looking movie that has had huge hype and the backlash was inevitable. That a teaser trailer for the film didn't change their lives is always going to be enough room for hate on this board. I'm just happy that I'm blown away by it, because I've wanted an epic (in scale, not just in story) sci-fi for so long and this looks to finally deliver one.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Zeliard, haters gonna hate. You'll be here all day if you try to defend this film from everybody on GAF. You even have people saying the Na'vi could have been done with humans. There is no reasoning, its an incredible looking movie that has had huge hype and the backlash was inevitable. That a teaser trailer for the film didn't change their lives is always going to be enough room for hate on this board. I'm just happy that I'm blown away by it, because I've wanted an epic (in scale, not just in story) sci-fi for so long and this looks to finally deliver one.

Yep... this is basically going to be one kick-ass movie, why all the hate?

 

[Clevinger]

Does anyone know why humans have the technology to clone an alien race and transfer a human's consciousness into it but can't heal a man's paralysis (or give him new legs, if that's why he can't walk)?

 

[Zenith]

All I see is rationalisations and excuses. It's standard defense by any long-time followers when a product fails to live up to its hype. This is no different.

 

[SteveMeister]

Uncanny Valley FTL. I'll probably end up seeing this anyway, but the whole time I will probably be annoyed by the fact that I can tell the aliens are CGI and they could have just gone with real people instead. Booo :\

They're ALIENS. The uncanny valley is absolutely appropriate here. They're not trying to make them look like humans! :lol

 

[Dead]

Looks fantastic. Hyped for tomorrow.

 

[JaCy]

The teaser was a little underwhelming but I'm still excited and is still day 1 for me.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

God this trailer is just so fucking awesome.
I've watched it like 30 times already.


The part where they are diving the winged beasts off the cliff is sooooo fucking radical.

 

[Blader]

Zeliard, haters gonna hate. You'll be here all day if you try to defend this film from everybody on GAF. You even have people saying the Na'vi could have been done with humans. There is no reasoning, its an incredible looking movie that has had huge hype and the backlash was inevitable. That a teaser trailer for the film didn't change their lives is always going to be enough room for hate on this board. I'm just happy that I'm blown away by it, because I've wanted an epic (in scale, not just in story) sci-fi for so long and this looks to finally deliver one.

Maybe if someone hadn't created two dozen threads about how fucking revolutionary this movie was going to be, there might not be as big a backlash.

The bottom line is that the movie looks good, but the quality of the CG is nowhere near what Cameron and others have hyped it up to be. Disappointment is inevitable and understandable.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

All I see is rationalisations and excuses. It's standard defense by any long-time followers when a product fails to live up to its hype. This is no different.

What product? Did we all just watch the movie? Its a teaser.

 

[MisterAnderson]

Also I know that King Kong (Peter Jackson's) isn't the most beloved movie out there... but I remember thinking Kong Kong looked fake as shit in the first teaser, and when I saw the actual movie I wondered how the fuck they were able to keep a 20 foot tall Gorilla a secret all these years...

...Having said that, I don't think the Navi look fake in this teaser.

Edit: I'm referring only the King Kong himself... some of the other CG was pretty fake looking due mostly to poor lighting.

 

[DrForester]

Two questions, what % of this movie is CGI because a few parts in there looked CGI that seem strange (Like hero guy coming off the ramp of the dropship in wheelchair).

Second, can the Navi talk (in English)?

 

[Veidt]

God this trailer is just so fucking awesome.
I've watched it like 30 times already.


The part where they are diving the winged beasts off the cliff is sooooo fucking radical.

I still love the bit where Jake gets into his Avatar, up until Neytiri's close-up.

 

[Tom_Cody]

 

[Karma Kramer]

All I see is rationalisations and excuses. It's standard defense by any long-time followers when a product fails to live up to its hype. This is no different.

You see what you want to see.

I watched the trailer, was blown away, came onto GAF... then laughed my ass off at some of the criticism and comments. People bringing up the "furries" shit, are the really strange ones imo. That type of shit doesn't even enter my head when looking at them. I just see them as this human-like alien creature that still roots their culture in nature and their world, rather then technology and machines.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Two questions, what % of this movie is CGI because a few parts in there looked CGI that seem strange (Like hero guy coming off the ramp of the dropship in wheelchair).

Second, can the Navi talk (in English)?

The Na'vi have their own completely developed language. But I imagine they also try to talk english.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

non humans will never ever ever ever ever make it outside the uncanny valley.

 

[Replicant]

The trailer is....uhm....look weird. I am just not convinced of those creatures. Sorry Sculli....

Still looking forward to Worthington/Zoldana/Weaver acting the hell out of this film though.

 

[DrForester]

The Na'vi have their own completely developed language. But I imagine they also try to talk english.

Like the Star Wars Holiday Special with the wookies?

 

[Furret]

Zeliard, haters gonna hate. You'll be here all day if you try to defend this film from everybody on GAF. You even have people saying the Na'vi could have been done with humans. There is no reasoning, its an incredible looking movie that has had huge hype and the backlash was inevitable. That a teaser trailer for the film didn't change their lives is always going to be enough room for hate on this board. I'm just happy that I'm blown away by it, because I've wanted an epic (in scale, not just in story) sci-fi for so long and this looks to finally deliver one.

Why couldn't they have been done with humans? All you need is blue paint, a mask and a reverse of whatever process made the hobbits shrink in Lord of the Rings. They must be the least imaginative alien designs since the bad old days of Star Trek: The Next Generation's wrinkle-headed budget savers.

But then there are much bigger questions to ask about the movie. Like why Cameron thought a cross between Dances with Wolves and Return of the Jedi would be a good idea.

This is fantasy for for the hard of imagination.

 

[D4Danger]

I'm not hearing a lot of reasons why the "haters" are wrong.

 

[Yackie]

They're ALIENS. The uncanny valley is absolutely appropriate here.

I agree

They're not trying to make them look like humans! :lol

But they DO look like humans.

 

[crazy monkey]

THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
aliens are suppose to look like alien not human. Navi look too much like human thus people don't seem to like it.

 

[SteveMeister]

non humans will never ever ever ever ever make it outside the uncanny valley.

And they shouldn't. The uncanny valley refers to synthetic depiction of HUMANS being not-quite-right-looking. If the Na'vi had human proportions and facial structure, they wouldn't look very alien, even if they were still blue & had tails & long ears, would they?

 

[G-Fex]

I agree



But they DO look like humans.

They're not humans, they're dancers.

 

[SteveMeister]

But they DO look like humans.

They look -almost- human, but not quite. That's actually what I like about them.

 

[eznark]

Does anyone know why humans have the technology to clone an alien race and transfer a human's consciousness into it but can't heal a man's paralysis (or give him new legs, if that's why he can't walk)?

:lol

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I'm not hearing a lot of reasons why the "haters" are wrong.

people have tried but they just don't listen. Too busy comparing AVATAR to every elf and cat-like character in a movie or game

 

[Johann]

I thought it looked pretty good.

It just wasn't above that 'I listened to that madman ramble for twenty minutes during the Ubisoft conference and this is what I get' level. I'm very surprised at how I had a huge sense of deja-vu with what was shown.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Does anyone know why humans have the technology to clone an alien race and transfer a human's consciousness into it but can't heal a man's paralysis (or give him new legs, if that's why he can't walk)?

Because James Cameron wanted a specific set-up for the human drama in his story and is not an experienced science fiction writer. He doesn't work out the full implications of various technologies that are part of his worldbuilding.

Granted, a single line of dialog could explain that Jake has unique genetics that reject treatment or grafts of new tissue - some handwavium like that. I'm willing to bet though it's never addressed.

 

[AnimatorZombie]

The designs of the aliens are horrible. Did they hire a 14 year old off of Deviant Art to lead up the concept team?