Valve: We made Oculus
Zenimax: We made Oculus
I made Oculus.
Zenimax and Valve stole my tech!
ZeniMax is going all out, and I want to see proof of all these allegations. It's so crazy right now.
Valve: We made Oculus
Zenimax: We made Oculus
He's absolutely the wide fov HMD guy, but were any of these HMDS actually VR specific? Cus I remember reading those forums where they were talking about leaving space for plugging in an orientation sensor and such.
I've read that article in the past, but I'm still not sure what the implication is as to the allegations outlined in this topic. Yes, Yates is right that collaboratively developed tech made it into a product from a company that hired much of the former Valve staff involved with the initial prototypes. That still doesn't have much to do with Zenimax's claims that they are the inventors of modern VR, and that Luckey's early hardware prototypes (as detailed on mtbs3d.com) had nothing to due with the current state of the tech.Here is a decent write up about it. They were openly sharing information because Valve was supporting them before the Facebook buyout. I'm not implying Oculus did anything wrong, just saying Palmer has had software and hardware support from Valve and Zenimax if they are to be believed.
http://www.roadtovr.com/alan-yates-rift-is-direct-copy-of-valves-vr-research/
Valve: We made Oculus
Zenimax: We made Oculus
He's absolutely the wide fov HMD guy, but were any of these HMDS actually VR specific? Cus I remember reading those forums pre kickstarter where they were talking about leaving space for plugging in an orientation sensor and such.
This complaint filed by ZeniMax is one-sided and conveys only ZeniMaxs interpretation of the story. We continue to believe this case has no merit, and we will address all of ZeniMaxs allegations in court.
I've read that article in the past, but I'm still not sure what the implication is as to the allegations outlined in this topic. Yes, Yates is right that collaboratively developed tech made it into a product from a company that hired much of the former Valve staff involved with the initial prototypes. That still doesn't have much to do with Zenimax's claims that they are the inventors of modern VR, and that Luckey's early hardware prototypes (as detailed on mtbs3d.com) had nothing to due with the current state of the tech.
So I'm supposed to believe zenimax has been working on a VR headset for years and never told anyone.
Yeah ok.
So I'm supposed to believe zenimax has been working on a VR headset for years and never told anyone.
Yeah ok.
I'm picturing the Zenimax VR headset as just Carmack's head on a pike :]Well, they may want to count Carmack's time on VR prototypes as Zenimax's headsets.
Yeah, posted in the other Zenimax thread.
I paid Palmer to make me an high-res HMD back in 2009/2010, and it ended up being his first prototype. This was a long time before Carmack joined the forum. After he built the PR1(Prototype 1), he made quite a few more named prototypes before Carmack joined the forums and asked to borrow one. Each one increasingly more Rift-like.
He really was doing this stuff before any Zenimax/Carmack intervention.
Crazy that VR has inherited virtually all of the ugliest aspects of the games industry before it has really even gotten off the ground.
Nobody opinion matters, if Carmack broke his contract with ZeniMax and took those files. Unless he is a whistleblower and uncovered that they were forcing monkies to create Bethesda's engines, there is no legal ground for his actions.I think in part this is just notoriously litigious Bethesda living up to their reputation, and most of the claims are a stretch, I think it's perfectly likely that Carmack did take Bethesda assets with him to Oculus. Probably assets that he developed whilst working at id, but they would still be Bethesda property. I can see how, him being an engineer more than anything else, wouldn't want hard work to go to waste, and perhaps might no fully consider (or particularly care about) the legal ramifications.
I think Oculus have done some pretty questionable things and I'd I'm intrigued to see how this plays out.
Wow this is a holy shit moment.
If I recall, Valve at the time weren't planning on releasing any sort of headset, and because of that, most of their VR team jumped ship to Oculus anyway to work on CV1. Was Valve actively experimenting with VR prior to DK1?
Valve: We made Oculus
Zenimax: We made Oculus
Zenimax really reaching desperately here. Luckey's early development is well archived on MTBS3D.com and he obviously knew what he was doing.
Yates' assertions about whether the tech that they offered up for collaboration ended up in CV1 still doesn't seem to have anything to do with the development of DK1, unless I'm missing something major. They worked collaboratively with the Oculus team to design consumer HMDs, and many of their employees even jumped ship to continue their work (i.e. Abrash, as evidenced by his musings online). It doesn't seem like that's a smoking gun for Zenimax to use in their assertions that Luckey's documented HMD work doesn't count towards the current state of VR.But this isn't true according to Alan Yates. Some people left, but the team responsible for that tech "Steam Sense" and the "room demo" still remain in Valve's VR team, and it is his belief that Zuckerberg mandated Oculus with trying to poach them, but failed. Valve's idea behind being open about the research freely was an attempt to get the PC platform moving with it (or so they say in their talks). The suggestion from a GDC talk with Gabe Newell & Geoff Keighley, if reading between the lines, implies that the Facebook acquisition of Oculus / refusal of contact after that was what spurred a change of direction for Valve to work on a headset.
Came here to post this. I am curious what Zenimax has that could counter Palmer's documented work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYa8kirsUfg
You only have to watch the videos of JC to know what he's done in VR previous to Oculus, by hacking Sony like HMD for years, solving issues adding sensors and software programming and he got Palmers HMD working, all while being employed by Zenimax.
Not to mention the sheer fact of the Carmack effect in giving this serious traction. He adds substantial weight just with him demoing it.
Pretty sure there was another video in Carmack's place of work, can't seem to find it now.
As for Carmack, I frankly don't give a shit if he took stuff, assuming he made it. In my opinion IP law needs to be reworked, creators should have some right to their creations too going forward.
Just seems like the usual lawyer rubbish basically trying to claim that Zenimax created the Rift by way of the fact Carmack was under employment by them so by default all his work belongs to them so any involvement of work he did on the Rift is their property and without it the Rift would not exist.
Zenimax will have to prove that something Carmack did while under contract with Zenimax has been used in the Rift as is today and that will probably be extremely difficult as I'm sure anything that was worked on will have been tweaked or changed since then so I really don't think they have anything to worry about. Just a cash grab attempt by Zenimax nothing more.
This allegation doesn't make sense based on my understanding of the timeline of Carmack's involvement in Oculus. Unless he secretly got involved much earlier than was made public, Zenimax is really grasping here. And if a random person on the internet can see through their case, how do they actually expect this to hold up in court?
Yates' assertions about whether the tech that they offered up for collaboration ended up in CV1 still doesn't seem to have anything to do with the development of DK1, unless I'm missing something major. They worked collaboratively with the Oculus team to design consumer HMDs, and many of their employees even jumped ship to continue their work (i.e. Abrash, as evidenced by his musings online). It doesn't seem like that's a smoking gun for Zenimax to use in their assertions that Luckey's documented HMD work doesn't count towards the current state of VR.
This reeks of Zenimax fishing for some Facebook cash
Valve: We made Oculus
Zenimax: We made Oculus