I always find it amusing when those who claim to defend free speech are also the first ones to try and silence someone for having an opinion that doesn't match with theirs.
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#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
- Thread starter besada
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I always find it amusing when those who claim to defend free speech are also the first ones to try and silence someone for having an opinion that doesn't match with theirs.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Yeah, me too. Unfortunately the hypocrisy goes right over the offender's head.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I like the term "weaponized ignorance" for GG.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
It's not them you worry about. You get the people who aren't:
Oppressors
Power holders unwilling to relinquish power
Keepers of the status quo
Privileged unwilling to let go of their privilege
to join your side and make the environment hostile for the groups listed. Racism hasn't gone away at all in America, but it is less socially acceptable to express racist views in most circles.
You can't change everybody's views, but you can make them play ball with the rest of society.
100% Agree.
I think that the proliferation of the internet and discourse across the internet has shown me that there is something very..biological about how we communicate in person versus online. Because people do things online that they would never do in person, even if their real name is attached to the statements (see: Facebook comments).
I am of the belief that most people will require a personal level of communication in order to change. I am aware that most of my arguing on the internet is about making myself feel better, not actually creating change. Heck, I'm now spending more time talking to MHWilliams about gaming journalism and a move towards the Cult of Personality? because I don't know much about it and he's in a position where he would know more.
BlastProcessing
Member
And, even if you do accept that the movement is to some extent legit but with 'a few bad apples', you're then faced with
which continues to make me snort in laughter embarassingly whenever I read it.
That, right there, is a great tweet.
I feel it was a barrel 90% rotten to start with and the entire barrel claims to be that 10% that isn't rotten.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I deffer to the much more apt analogy.
Niche Gamer (who have been very pro-GamerGate) put out another editorial, arguing about the misrepresentation of Gamer Culture. While the article isn't poorly written, I feel that the premise that the author presents is flawed.
The author argues that there are two ways of viewing culture, through a "modernist" and "postmodernist" viewpoint. The definition given by the author follows:
The author then argues that "Social Justice" types are rooted in modernity, ideology and that they feel "they think they are doing what is best for all of humanity, and therefore anyone not helping them, or standing in their way, is hurting all humanity." What I believe the author is suggesting, is that those viewing Gamer Culture through a postmodern lens do so in a more nuanced matter.
However, I disagree with the central premise of modern and postmodern critique - at least when it relates to video games. Story based mediums are not rooted solely in individualism, but are also influenced by culture at large. This includes various institutions, belief systems and other over arching aspects of culture that would fall under the definition of modernism. It seems dishonest to say that games and gamer culture cannot be criticized through a modern lens, when the medium is influenced by it. The statement that those vying for "Social Justice" are rooted in archaic and dogmatic belief systems is dismissive of the influence that modernity still has on our culture, suggesting that any type of social critique is invalid.
Perhaps I misinterpreted the authors definition of "modern" and "postmodern," but I feel the overall dismissal of social critique as being rooted in dogma to be rather disheartening.
The author argues that there are two ways of viewing culture, through a "modernist" and "postmodernist" viewpoint. The definition given by the author follows:
The author then argues that "Social Justice" types are rooted in modernity, ideology and that they feel "they think they are doing what is best for all of humanity, and therefore anyone not helping them, or standing in their way, is hurting all humanity." What I believe the author is suggesting, is that those viewing Gamer Culture through a postmodern lens do so in a more nuanced matter.
However, I disagree with the central premise of modern and postmodern critique - at least when it relates to video games. Story based mediums are not rooted solely in individualism, but are also influenced by culture at large. This includes various institutions, belief systems and other over arching aspects of culture that would fall under the definition of modernism. It seems dishonest to say that games and gamer culture cannot be criticized through a modern lens, when the medium is influenced by it. The statement that those vying for "Social Justice" are rooted in archaic and dogmatic belief systems is dismissive of the influence that modernity still has on our culture, suggesting that any type of social critique is invalid.
Perhaps I misinterpreted the authors definition of "modern" and "postmodern," but I feel the overall dismissal of social critique as being rooted in dogma to be rather disheartening.
May work less now that they did it to intel. Advertisers are likely aware of how #gg is percieved now and to associate positively with them would hurt more thab the withdrawl of business of a few thousand people. Even so, most advertisers are game industry which would be keenly aware of who they are and what it means to accommodate them.
LaserBuddha
Member
I feel like the Gamergate contingent on GAF has abandoned trying to argue in this thread, and are instead in places like the Bayonetta threads now.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Guess they'll have to find a new hobby this winter, because review copies are a standard across the industry and even small game sites receive a lot of those.
benicillin
Banned
Where is that Modern Warfare 2 Steam boycott group jpg when I need it.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Oh shit, I'm not playing Borderlands right now and I don't plan to buy it. Guess I'm unconsciously supporting gamergate, and Gearbox is fucked.
Dead Early
Banned
Any strongly opinionated person won't be swayed by words. They'll need to see things with their own eyes, and even then, there's no guarantee they won't just force what they're seeing into their pre-existing worldview, as this thread demonstrates quite neatly.
As an aside, what's causing the rhetoric to describe gamergaters as "ignorant"?
The idea crossed my head and it annoys me I thought that way. I wasn't going to buy it because I found borderlands2 disappointing. Now I might spite buy the pre sequel. I hate the fact such a petty idea crossed my mind.
Well, the insistence that certain facts that have been proven false time and time again still continue to be part of the group's rallying cry, for one.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
To be ignorant is to lack knowledge about something. The pro-GG talking pieces lack the adequate knowledge to make the claims they do. In this case they are by definition ignorant.
blitzcloud
Banned
why would anyone be in favor of gamergate and display it on GAF (and more precisely this thread). I mean, there's no happy ending to that.
faceless007
Member
Oh, look, an actual issue related to journalism ethics! I mean, receiving review copies isn't inherently a sign of corruption, after all, they're incredibly common in most other media industries (movies and music and books) and really, targeting them seems like pretty small potatoes, but on the broader subject that GamerGate claims to be interested in of tackling the degree to which publications rely on companies they write about for content, it's kinda sorta tangentially relevant and if you really want to push back against anything that could be perceived as influence-peddling, and if you want to direct your attention on the publishers that foster that perception, then I guess you could do worse than taking a hardline stance against the entire practice of publishers providing pre-release games to everyone--
Oh.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Dudes spite purchasing bayonetta 2 as a "fuck you to corrupt journalists" when the game has damn near universal acclaim. What?
God, if gamergaters mass-purchase Bayonetta 2 and make Bayonetta 3 possible, I think I might forgive them.
Not really.
Dead Early
Banned
Guys, please. Trying to clarify rhetoric with more rhetoric gets nowhere.
It's not about Gearbox. It's about Anthony Burch.
Has anyone mentioned the boycott #GG is trying to organize against the new Borderlands?
(i thought the highlighted was particularly hilarious)
All because of this:
but don't censor our games, guys!
PFFT.
I'm sure they'll be missed.
Is this because of Burch's earlier comments about Destructoid reviewing his game?
Riposte
Member
Who in particular?
I think I saw an image related to Burch which makes me think it is more about his comments on twitter in general.
Dead Early
Banned
Probably. As well as his, as well as the game's perceived pandering toward SJWs.
It's not about Anthony Burch. It's about the fact that GG thinks games journalists should be inherently opposed to game developers, never talk to one another, and treat each other like members of a different team in a game of sports.
I mean seriously, if this is their line of thinking, then they're going to boycott every video game on the market, because for the life of me, I cannot think of one major publisher who hasn't employed someone from the games journalism sector after their respective site dried up.
This boils down to people thinking they know how the industry works, but don't. These are the people who tried to give Lab Zero shit about the Skullgirls kickstarter. Petulant children.
I mean, look on the bright side. If they boycott this, they'll boycott everything and soon pro GG people won't even be playing video games anymore.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
gamers are ded - confirmed
Neoriceisgood
Member
Except shitty 4 .... 8chan games where you fight obnoxious memes.
LaserBuddha
Member
I didnt write down names, just look at "Bayonetta and sexualization", or the Bayonetta review thread, or the Toad thread where they dogpiled on a woman for expressing speculative disappointment that the female character might just be a damsel in distress, or look at the "Objectification and slut shaming" thread for some particularly colorful examples.
Every GG endorsed game will be exclusively available on newgrounds.
Jim Sterling
Member
"It's not about Gearbox, it's about Anthony Burch."
"It's not about Anthony, it's about this line of dialog."
"It's not about the game, it's about what Burch said on Twitter."
"It's not about what Burch said, it's about Destructoid."
You're all wrong and right, because it's about all those things, and a dozen other things, and NONE of these things. It's about whatever sounds good at the time.
There's no fucking coherence. Just lashing out.
"It's not about Anthony, it's about this line of dialog."
"It's not about the game, it's about what Burch said on Twitter."
"It's not about what Burch said, it's about Destructoid."
You're all wrong and right, because it's about all those things, and a dozen other things, and NONE of these things. It's about whatever sounds good at the time.
There's no fucking coherence. Just lashing out.
Seriously waiting for the "I pirated the game to punish Destructoid" argument when half of their steam list is playing it day 1.
Dead Early
Banned
I didn't mean to imply that the statement was my own. I was simply reporting the overall reasoning behind some of the individuals partaking in the boycott, based on my observation.
Dudes spite purchasing bayonetta 2 as a "fuck you to corrupt journalists" when the game has damn near universal acclaim. What?
The Steam GamerGate curation page lists games that were unfairly criticized for depictions of women within the games. Top game: Arkham City - Game of the Year edition. Critical acclaim apparently doesn't mean much if you so much as sharing that you find how the game treats a female character poorly.
I think witch hunting people across the forum and accusing them of being gamergaters isn't one of your best ideas. If you want it to spill out of this thread and shit up the forum then please continue.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134310740&postcount=467
faceless007
Member
If you don't accept the literal definition of the word and the documented history of the group's actions as qualifying evidence, I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for. It is not pure rhetoric to describe a group that is shocked to discover that professional networking groups exist in most industries, that professionals in the same sphere discussing their work amongst themselves is perfectly normal, that criticism and social commentary including feminist critique has a long and storied history in every other medium of expression and is not by any means unique to video games, that women have historically and systematically been underrepresented in most media, that women generally face greater levels of harassment and unwanted attention (often sexual) than men both online and in person, or that women working in male-dominated industries such as games often experience harassment and unwanted attention in addition to having few resources to push back against it and not feeling empowered to speak up about it contributing to a hostile environment. Anyone to whom any of these concepts is surprising or difficult to believe and wants to challenge the validity of them could, perhaps uncharitably, but nevertheless accurately, be described as "ignorant." This is not to impugn malice or intent, but to literally describe the fact that such people know not of what they speak.
Zoe's mentions for the last few hours.
But it's not about harassment!
We condemn harassment!
But it's not about harassment!
Even though it is for a large contingent of supporters.
We condemn harassment!
There is no we.
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