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Liam Robertson (of Unseen64 fame): "NX is not aiming to compete on a power level"

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A

And_Gignac

Member
I have made peace with the probable fact that NX may be the farewell hardware from Nintendo. Stubborn executives will destroy the dream.
 
E

eighty(one)

Member
ironcreed said:
The mobile crowd is not going to rush out to buy Nintendo hardware and it does not take Nostradamus to see that. If that is what they are hoping for then they have already failed. As people already have mobile devices and that market does not give two shits about Nintendo.
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I suspect Nintendo is trying to unify the user base of their handheld and console platforms, into one ecosystem. Entice the DS/3DS/Vita handheld gamers into a Nintendo dedicated platform; while enabling the console to attract that base as well.

3DS audience, would be/do decent, respectable numbers for a home system - so unify that across 2 systems and having upwards of 50 million a piece.
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
ShockingAlberto said:
I meant home ones, but they're not really on 3DS, either. Outside of some mega hits like Yokai Watch, most third party games don't do extraordinarily well.

Compare to, say, HD systems where a game like Borderlands 2 sells 12 million.
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That...doesn't sound that true, honestly. Especially if you're talking about Japan.
 
balgajo

balgajo

Member
If all of that is true I wouldn't be surprised if they only sell 40~50 million units, console + handheld combined.
 
O

Oersted

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
I meant home ones, but they're not really on 3DS, either. Outside of some mega hits like Yokai Watch, most third party games don't do extraordinarily well.

Compare to, say, HD systems where a game like Borderlands 2 sells 12 million.
Click to expand...

Outside some mega hits... come on, this is a little bit much goal post moving. We have seen mega hits, indies doing fairly well and 3DS is kind of AAs last home.

An audience is still there, the important thing is will it crumble, flourish or something in between.
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
Terrell said:
At this point, if it's going to be so weak power-wise like so many of you seem dead-set on, they may as well combine them into a hybrid. There's no sense in keeping them separate if there's no legitimate performance increase.



So it's a Nintendo box with more Nintendo games. Watch me raise my finger towards the ceiling and twirl it in a circular motion. And watch most other regular gamers do the same damn thing.

Also, how does that help Nintendo if they're selling the same amount of games, just on a software platform instead of a hardware platform? Where do these magical extra sales come from unless you increase the user base somehow?



It's still the same number of software sales. Again, there's no GAINS there.



Gamecube. It's already happened. Cheapest buy a long shot from PlayStation and Xbox at $99 in the middle of the generation, even had a few AAA 3rd-party games but basically the fabled Nintendo box in the most literal way possible, since the thing was bloody SHAPED like one. 20 million sales.

Wrapping that up in flashy new slightly more modern packaging will do.... what, exactly? Cuz it's not going to sell more hardware units, and if they're not doing that, then what's the point?



Not by much. You'll maybe get back the 10 million core gamer sales lost between Gamecube and Wii U. At best. If they're lucky.



Because it actually, y'know, had 3rd-party games. Some of them were great 3rd-party games, too. It wasn't as many as their competitor, not by a long shot, but Microsoft wasn't exactly doing much better when compared to the PS2. But they actually kept trying to get as many on board as possible. And look at them now.



Again, by that logic, Microsoft should have given up after Xbox because PS2 crushed it in 3rd-party de-facto exclusives. But they didn't. And guess what happened?

You put the effort in and you can get the results. Not right away, but you CAN get them.



So again, you're saying they should quit trying and just slowly live off their meagre fanbase until it whittles away to nothing. You've re-stated something you challenged me on earlier in the thread.



It doesn't change how many people are buying the hardware. And in this business, that is what matters. More hardware sales, more software sales.



Again.... a slightly more populous Nintendo box ain't winning any prizes among consumers.



There aren't many "Wii U exclusives" that didn't have an exact equivalent in the same franchise. Nothing is added to this equation, it's just lumped together slightly differently.



Nintendo's user base aside from Wii has shrunk generation after generation after generation. And now their handheld user base, their lifeline in times of weak console sales, is shrinking too.

If you're not trying to get 3rd-parties on board because "they're never coming back never never never", then you're literally condemning Nintendo to sating themselves on their fanbase while it slowly crumbles. It will not maintain itself forever.

So yeah, you're saying they should give up on growing their user base in the ONLY way that's still available to them, and as I already established, if you're not growing in business, you're dying. It's like that in every single industry. What makes Nintendo so special that they can magically avoid this economic inevitability?



Like I said, if you're not growing the user base, you're dying, and anything you do in the interim is just sitting around waiting for it to happen.



3rd-party support on 3DS doesn't somehow automatically carry over just because. Perhaps 3rd-parties wouldn't want to allocate more money to making a console-compatible version of their handheld games. It's a solution that we know works well for Nintendo, but the jury's still out on whether 3rd-parties are going to be on the same page with regards to that. Especially when there's less that differentiates the handheld and the console. Most of them could think "ehh, what's the point?"
Click to expand...
The benefits of the two systems sharing most of their games isn't purely with profits. If they only have to make one version of a game, not only do they spend less money than they would making both versions, they also have the freedom to make more different games.
 
Eteric Rice

Eteric Rice

Member
PaRappa said:
I'm struggling to see where Nintendo are going with NX home. Say for example they launch in December 2017 with a machine half as powerful as PS4 which itself will be around £199, even if the NX is £99 it hardly makes for a compelling purchase. It will be too little too late. Also if home and mobile run the same software (differing performances) why would you buy both machines? I have an iPhone and an ipad. OK, all purchases are cross buy, which I doubt Nintendo will do, but I always struggled to justify both devices when they're essentially the same.

I really can't see Nintendo coming up with a compelling product at a compelling price at the right time. Xbone and PS4 prices will go down and their popularity will only go up in time.
Click to expand...

One lets you play your game when you're not home, and when you get home you can then play your game on your big screen.

And if both systems play the same games, this would let Nintendo combine their devs to make games for virtually one platform, instead of two. This would make droughts less likely.
 
T

tesla246

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
I keep seeing this sentiment


So let's verify that, shall we? We'll go over the top third party games for the generation.

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - 17.33 million: Not on Gamecube, yes on PS2 and Xbox
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City - 9.61 million: Not on Gamecube, yes on PS2 and Xbox
Grand Theft Auto III - 7.9 million: Not on Gamecube, yes on PS2 and Xbox
Metal Gear Solid 2 - 7 million: Not on Gamecube, yes on PS2 and Xbox
Final Fantasy X - 6.6 million: Not on Gamecube or Xbox
Tekken 5 - 6 million: Not on Gamecube or Xbox
Final Fantasy XII - 5.2 million: Not on Gamecube or Xbox
Kingdom Hearts - 5.9 million: Not on Gamecube or Xbox
Dragon Quest VIII: 4.4 million: Not on Gamecube or Xbox
Final Fantasy X-2 - 4.06 million: Not on Gamecube or Xbox
Kingdom Hearts 2 - 4 million: Not on Gamecube or Xbox
Metal Gear Solid 3 - 3.7 million: Not on Gamecube or Xbox
Guitar Hero II - 3.41 million: Not on Gamecube, yes on PS2 and 360
Guitar Hero III - 3.23 million: Everything but Gamecube
Dragonball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 - 3 million: Not on Gamecube
WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2006 - 2.9 million: Not on Gamecube or Xbox

I could keep going.
Click to expand...

Alltough I agree with 3rd party games generally not selling as well on Nintendo hardware (at least as opposed to competitive platforms), and that it might be extremely hard to change that, there are a few things I believe Nintendo did absolutely right with Gamecube, One of those things, which can only ever be a good thing, is easy to develop/port architecture-wise/power wise, which certainly helped Gamecube gain quite good 3rd party support, contrary to you belief.

Your list of games is not quite fair; a LOT (almost all) jrpg's where still exclusive to 1 console at that time (ps1 to PS2), it wasn't common for them to be multiplatform in that era. Same goes for other Japanese developed games in that era, such as Metal Gear Solid, and Tekken. The GTA games not being for Gamecube was down to the stupid decision of nintendo to go with low-capacity mini-dvd's.
Where I'm going with this is that most of those games where not on Gamecube indeed, but for entirely different reasons than being a powerful, competitive console and easy to develop for in relation to the other platforms.

I would even go as far as saying that thanks to its power and architecture, Gamecube actually gained a lot of 3rd party support, despite only selling 21 million units, the lowest of the 3. Certainly more than N64; a definite improvement. Think about it Gamecube got

-All of the (EA) sports games, such as FIFA, MADDEN, Tiger woods, FIFA street NCAA Football NHL, etc..
- Need for Speed series, Prince of Persia series, Splinter cell, etc.
-most of the ''shovelware'' (don't mean this negatively) games like Harry Potter, Turtles, True Crime 5 WWE games, Finding Nemo etc.
Even niche 3rd party support, like the Megaman Collections, Midway Arcade Treasures and others like Baldurs Gate, Crash, Spyro, Soul Calibur 2 etc.

It basically got most 3rd party games due to its architecture and power, and the ones it didn't get (like GTA and JRPG's), where for different reasons as explained above. Nintendo evendid some things right and managed to get some 3rd party support exclusively, (Roque Squadron , Resident Evil, capcom 5 Monkey Ball initially etc.).

On top of that, as a Nintendo fans during the cube era, it was nice to play graphically equall games without feeling left in the cold.
Now, you don't hear me telling most 3rd party games sold well, but that is besides the point entirely (during the Gamecube era, at least). Fact of the matter is, Nintendo fans all had a choise to buy 3rd party games on the cube; the possibility was there, again, thanks to the similar architecture/power.

Could this work for Nintendo in this day and age? I do not know. The 3rd party relationships/trust are at an all time low, and it costs more than ever to develop/port games. Perhaps Nintendo can nurture an studio which focuses entirely on porting/helping port 3rd party games.

I just feel like Nintendo wants to forget the Gamecube era in its entirety because of the low sales, and looks at everything they did back then as a mistake. But it was not. The hardware was perfectly designed and cheap to produce and lowered in production cost quickly. The controller was amazing, but needed a few improvements.

Really, the big mistakes with Gamecube where:

-low advertisement.
-No DVD player and lacking in online features; no attempt whatsoever. Subsequently, no rare support (which efectively threw away all their momentum.name they had leftoever from N64). No Banjo, new IP or even a Goldeneye 2, which could have been HUGE with online support, say 6 months after Gamecube launched. Instead they gave us Starfox Adventures; effectively killing 2 birds with 1 stone (Starfax series and Dinasour Planet, thanks Miyamoto...).
-Gamecube arrived late at the scene at NOV. 2001 and even may 2002 in Europe, that is FUCKING LTTP (especially when factoring in the Xbox launch at the same time, meaning a high competitiion time frame).
When Gamecube released, PS2 was already 1.5 years on the market (even almost 2 years in Europe) and dreamcast almost 4 years! Thats almost an entire generation!
Now factor in the early next-gen 360 announcement, which diverted attention away from the PS2, but mostly impacted Gamecube/Xbox and launched in 2005, it is safe to say that the gamecube never really got a chance to make a name for itself. (same with N64).

I do not ever want to hear again (not directed at you at all, shockingalberto) that power actually worked against Nintendo and people using it as a negative argument: it gained decent/good 3rd party support because of it. However, Nintendo made way to many mistakes with the Gamecube. Their self-reflection needs some work definitely needs some work.
 
Q

QueenOfThorns

Member
lol.

If they announce a new DKCR game I'll get it. But otherwise I won't. Nothing Nintendo offers other than my gorilla banana collecting game is worth it to me.

I think it's pathetic they can't at least match the PS4 power level in 2016/17... the PS4 isn't even THAT powerful, and they would be able to sell something with comparable power at a cheaper price now.

If power was my main concern I'd say they should be a lot more powerful than the PS4 but I just think it's insulting to charge people for a new console that's not even anywhere near a 3 to 4 year old one when it releases.
 
T

Terrell

Member
Neoxon said:
The benefits of the two systems sharing most of their games isn't purely with profits. If they only have to make one version of a game, not only do they spend less money than they would making both versions, they also have the freedom to make more different games.
Click to expand...

And that somehow will magically grow the user base? Cuz until they start doing that, it's literally a countdown to bankruptcy. Granted, it might be a long and excruciating countdown, but still a countdown nonetheless.
 
Northeastmonk

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
It never is. Nintendo never ever tries to out perform or go on par with another console. Their handhelds might, but even those have better iterations down the road. I for once would like to see them launch a console around a launch window of another company. I see how they're trying to remain Nintendo. I just don't know what to expect anymore. The Wii U has felt like it has a ton of untapped potential. I own maybe 7 or 9 Wii U games and the rest are VC. I'm still waiting for Zelda and I've only had it a year? Whatever it is, I don't know what to expect. They basically made a Mario and a Donkey Kong game. I didn't bother with Smash on console either, just handheld.

I had the GC on launch, heck I was the first person inside the store that day. I just wonder what they're planning. I'm holding out for Zelda. I don't know about a new console. Nothing has been groundbreaking in a way. I don't think power should even be brought up anymore. I got use to that back with the GC.

Launch window may not be a big deal. I see why and how they do it. I don't want to wait an extremely long time for another Nintendo console.

That jump from NES to SNES to N64 to GameCube was a big deal, but now they did motion controls and everything has been in the center of this bar, but it has carried a selective approach. It's Nintendo's way or nothing.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
EDarkness said:
NDA's, man. Anyone who is in the middle of this stuff can't talk about it. So we have no real idea how effective they are right now. For example, if FF VII remake was coming to the NX could they announce that now? So we'll just have to wait and see over the coming months and hope for some leaks.
Click to expand...

This kinda reminds me of the WUSTs in early 2012:

"Why are so few of these PS3/360 multiplats being announced for Wii U?"

"Nintendo must have third parties under a blanket NDA, man. Wait for E3!"

Not exactly the same thing, of course... but if Nintendo was staffing up its Western teams for projects targeting the PS4/XB1 core audience, I think we'd at least be hearing rumors by now.
 
C

catbrush

Member
A low price point is the most important factor to NX taking off. There are more ways forward than pure power.

Courting 3rd parties is not an option for Nintendo in the same way as it is for Sony and Microsoft.

Nintendo's Wii U games look and play incredible. Their primary objective should be to continue to make the innovative games that only they can pull off, but at a price that's less prohibitive.

And if it can perform some insane future magic to let everyone in the room use their phone as a screen for shared augmented reality Nintendo-Minecraft without having to buy any extra hardware, that's just icing on the cake.
 
T

Terrell

Member
thefro said:
If those developers create the right new IPs, certainly.

Splatoon's definitely helped to keep the Wii U from completely cratering.
Click to expand...

Splatoon got a handful of lapsed Nintendo gamers to buy the hardware, and still in paltry numbers. The bulk of its sales are still likely from people who already owned the console before its existence.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
Odrion said:
That's a shame considering how low of a power level the Xbone and PS4 kinda are.
Click to expand...
One thing with Nintendo though is their games are small budget. For them to go higher than PS4 specs means they're going to have to triple their teams to keep up. Given how not even PC sees a lot of games exclusively made for high end cards anymore, Nintendo doing it sounds even crazier.

And that says it all really.
 
Q

QueenOfThorns

Member
billymonks said:
A low price point is the most important factor to NX taking off. There are more ways forward than pure power.
Click to expand...

I see this a lot, but releasing a console with the power of a PS4 in the year 2016/2017 isn't "pure power". It's already outdated. And they can't even do that? They're going to make it even worse than that?
 
E

EDarkness

Member
Father_Brain said:
This kinda reminds me of the WUSTs in early 2012:

"Why are so few of these PS3/360 multiplats being announced for Wii U?"

"Nintendo must have third parties under a blanket NDA, man. Wait for E3!"

Not exactly the same thing, of course... but if Nintendo was staffing up its Western teams for projects targeting the PS4/XB1 core audience, I think we'd at least be hearing rumors by now.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I remember those days...but wasn't this AFTER the Wii U was announced? The NX hasn't been announced yet, so it's all fair game. However, after it's been announced (we know what it is and how it'll work), and we're not seeing games announced, then I'd say we're repeating history. I'm trying to stay relatively optimistic, but we know how these things go and this thread just drive home that point.
 
I

It's Reyn Time!

Member
QueenOfThorns said:
lol.

If they announce a new DKCR game I'll get it. But otherwise I won't. Nothing Nintendo offers other than my gorilla banana collecting game is worth it to me.

I think it's pathetic they can't at least match the PS4 power level in 2016/17... the PS4 isn't even THAT powerful, and they would be able to sell something with comparable power at a cheaper price now.

If power was my main concern I'd say they should be a lot more powerful than the PS4 but I just think it's insulting to charge people for a new console that's not even anywhere near a 3 to 4 year old one when it releases.
Click to expand...

If they were to release something in the PS4/XB1 price/power range they'd be going toe to toe with those two consoles, late. If they could offer the same power, but cheaper (and later) then what's to stop the other companies lowering their price to match?

We don't know what form this thing's going to take either, so try not to be so prematurely insulted.
 
C

carl32

Banned
Not going to compete with power of the Ps4, im hoping yes its not going to compete because its going to obliterate it power wise. Im no PC user any more but it does annoy when people think the PS4 is powerful.
 
D

Disorientator

Member
Fourth Storm said:
What I think the NX gimmick might be, if this is technically possible, is a software application for smart devices and PCs that will allow gamers to use their devices as a display for NX software. The console would basically be a small cloud server that functions w/in the household or whatever range they can manage. All controllers would interface directly with this console, as on Wii U, but the touch screen of smart devices could also be used for things.
Click to expand...

Heh, interesting.

I've been thinking something similar lately. (but in reverse)

Use PCs -in household- to process "work units", by installing an application that will "talk" with NX, similar to network rendering.

It will basically be cloud assisted processing, but with the cloud being in you LAN.

This way base-unit specs can be low-ish but still be able to run more complex games.


Of course there's no way this is happening - too many variables.
 
B

BDGAME

Member
I always thought Nintendo will try to increase the form factors, launch multiple machines, like :
  • NX Portable: a handled console with power close of the Wii U, but with better memory and CPU. Run games at 480p or 560p.
  • NX Family: a cheap console with a power close to the handled. Can run the sames games at 720/1080p. Compatible with Wii motion plus.
  • NX Hardcore: a powerful machine, PS4+, that can run all the games from other machines plus third party games at 1080p.

Maybe, right now Nintendo is showing more that handled /family machine and next year they will talk about the hardcore machine.
 
M

Maztorre

Member
Terrell said:
And that somehow will magically grow the user base? Cuz until they start doing that, it's literally a countdown to bankruptcy. Granted, it might be a long and excruciating countdown, but still a countdown nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Software is why any hardware sells. If all of their development teams are targeting a single platform, then that means there is more available software and therefore increased confidence for customers to buy into that platform. Especially when software becomes a breakout hit.

As an example, despite the underwhelming sales of both 3DS and Wii U compared to their predecessors, titles like Fire Emblem and Animal Crossing are now at the height of their popularity. Nintendo was also still able to make a million seller out of Splatoon, which released at a time when Wii U was effectively written off as a failure. If Nintendo consistently release popular software, but on a single modern service platform running on a sanely designed, profitable range of hardware, they have a much better chance of growing their customer base than continuing to divide resources propping up a failing console business in Japan and a failing handheld business in the West.

They still need to drastically widen the variety of software they produce, though. In terms of both genres and target audience.
 
T

thefro

Member
It's Reyn Time! said:
If they were to release something in the PS4/XB1 price/power range they'd be going toe to toe with those two consoles, late. If they could offer the same power, but cheaper (and later) then what's to stop the other companies lowering their price to match?
Click to expand...

They could, but given the shrinking console market I think a total red ocean strategy could be successful for Nintendo. I don't see Sony keeping an unprofitable games division around given their current state. Microsoft obviously has enough money to do whatever they want but at some point it's going to be obvious for them that a mobile phone will replace their dream of a box that hooks to the TV that does everything (which MS gets a cut of).

As far as game divisions go, Nintendo has the potential to make more money off mobile software & licensing their IP than Sony/Microsoft do, so in theory those profits could subsidize spending a ton of money on NX.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
carl32 said:
Not going to compete with power of the Ps4, im hoping yes its not going to compete because its going to obliterate it power wise. Im no PC user any more but it does annoy when people think the PS4 is powerful.
Click to expand...

The PS4 is the most powerful console, that's not a real debate. As for Nintendo deciding to 'obliterate' PS4, don't be ridiculous. Even Sony and MS have realized that power doesn't matter all that much. All it means is increased team sizes and increased budgets for a smaller pool of players.

You can have chest thumping fanboys shout to the heavens, but all that really matters in the end are the games and ease of experience. If games come out and the consoles can run them acceptably, they will be supported.
 
G

GabeTheGrouch76

Member
bobbychalkers said:
dyx5xs9.jpg

It better have a hell of a hook and a damn solid launch lineup
Click to expand...

This. Console/handheld hybrid or not, if it's not aiming for technical prowess (speaking under the assumption that it is a hardware device, but it also applies if its a service), it pretty much has to hit all four P's of marketing (product, price, promotion, place) without skipping a beat. Otherwise NX might as well be another Wii U situation in terms of reception and relevance.
 
W

Who

Banned
You know, as long as it's at least as powerful as a WiiU, I'm cool with it. Would be nice if it was least beefy enough to run third-party ports like Arkham Knight
 
F

flatearthpandas

Member
Where's that rumor thread about third parties supposedly liking what they were hearing about NX at e3, while we're getting hot and bothered about rumors? Seems these contradict each other.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
carl32 said:
Not going to compete with power of the Ps4, im hoping yes its not going to compete because its going to obliterate it power wise. Im no PC user any more but it does annoy when people think the PS4 is powerful.
Click to expand...
See my post.

If you want Nintendo to come out with something on par with a Titan, then you face 2 realities:
1. Their games take way longer to make
2. They struggle to make games because they're understaffed
 
C

Chopper Dave

Member
EDarkness said:
An updated Wii Remote and nunchuck with analog triggers, please.
Click to expand...

Functional parity of a tradition dual analog controller + IR pointer + motion controls(nothing that drives the price up too high) + split design = The perfect controller nobody can complain about. Okay some will complain for some stupid reason but I'll be too busy playing with the prefect controller to care.
 
LabouredSubterfuge

LabouredSubterfuge

Member
So if they're putting out poor hardware again and not even trying to get in with third parties anymore, who is this meant to appeal to?

People that like mobile games? Why would they opt against playing these games on mobile?

People that like Nintendo games? See the landslide success of the WiiU.

They need to fucking compete, not concede and run.
 
M

MilesTeg

Banned
flatearthpandas said:
Where's that rumor thread about third parties supposedly liking what they were hearing about NX at e3, while we're getting hot and bothered about rumors? Seems these contradict each other.
Click to expand...

It's possible that third parties like it despite the box not being powerful. The major third parties have a hand in the mobile business now as well. Maybe Nintendo presented them something where they can cheaply bring their mobile support, as well as Unity based software and whatnot. Two platforms for the price of one as well.

Or maybe Nintendo shared with them some crazy gimmick or whatnot and they like it.

It's possible that it's just BS as well. The third parties are in the market of making video games, they want to see the market expand. They want to see Nintendo put out a product that can make them money. It's in their best interest that Nintendo succeeds as dedicated game devices have seen a decline.
 
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