flatearthpandas
Member
You have a reason for that?
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Ace Attorney [Mafia] |OT| Turnabout Scum
- Thread starter Sorian
- Start date
You have a reason for that?
CornBurrito
Member
I would like to go over this again though:
Town names:
- Pearl
- Franziska
- Gregory Edgeworth
- Miles Edgeworth
- Phoenix Wright
- Trucy Wright
- Dick Gumshoe (if you choose to believe me being town)
- Lana Skye (if you choose to believe Xam being town)
Not sure if I'm missing any names.
Meanwhile we had the fake role name
- Marvin Grossberg
I really hate bringing this up again, but I think 8 names (granted one is a fake name provided to scum) is enough to establish a pattern. Masque De Masque does not fit this pattern at all. I find it hard to believe he is Town. But likewise I really don't think he's scum since it would be an odd choice to give to scum as a fake name.
Town names:
- Pearl
- Franziska
- Gregory Edgeworth
- Miles Edgeworth
- Phoenix Wright
- Trucy Wright
- Dick Gumshoe (if you choose to believe me being town)
- Lana Skye (if you choose to believe Xam being town)
Not sure if I'm missing any names.
Meanwhile we had the fake role name
- Marvin Grossberg
I really hate bringing this up again, but I think 8 names (granted one is a fake name provided to scum) is enough to establish a pattern. Masque De Masque does not fit this pattern at all. I find it hard to believe he is Town. But likewise I really don't think he's scum since it would be an odd choice to give to scum as a fake name.
Matt Attack
Member
Keep in mind that in his original claim post, Ezekial claimed that he is not just Mask DeMasque, but Ron DeLite. Leaving aside the fact that I think it's probably too early to start noticing patterns in role names (considering how many players we have left alive), I don't think that it's all that suspicious for a defendant's name to appear amongst a list of defense attorneys, prosecutors, detectives and little girls.
I still think Ezeikial's power has a lot of power to be anti town, so I wouldn't be surprised if he flipped neutral. His name has nothing to do with this feeling I have, however.
flatearthpandas
Member
I have to get to bed soon and town should be getting more active in the next few hours, so I'll say just in my own defense that Hipster's posts don't strike me as very scummy and I don't think there's any real good reason to lynch me today. I don't think scum strategy is to lay so low you get policy lynched or replaced and inactivity was his main crime. He was part of the Kalor wagon, though he's far from alone in that crime, and seemed to have an OMGUS relationship with him from early on. I assume this is his first Gafia game, as he didn't know how to vote.
Of course, I know for certain his/my alignment and that will color my reading but he didn't jump out at me before I was asked to replace him either. To be fair, not many people did. It doesn't take too much imagination to think up better lynch targets than him/me imo but I'm happy to respond to any questions or accusations. Preventing ML's is important after all, especially with two NKs.
To add on to Matt Attack above, I believe Lana was also a defendant so it isn't far-fetched to believe there would be others. If we choose to believe Xam is town.
Of course, I know for certain his/my alignment and that will color my reading but he didn't jump out at me before I was asked to replace him either. To be fair, not many people did. It doesn't take too much imagination to think up better lynch targets than him/me imo but I'm happy to respond to any questions or accusations. Preventing ML's is important after all, especially with two NKs.
To add on to Matt Attack above, I believe Lana was also a defendant so it isn't far-fetched to believe there would be others. If we choose to believe Xam is town.
unvote
I tend to agree we probably shouldn't lynch her (but also NOT threat her as certain town). The good thing about a suspicious someone claiming a pr with a night action is that if they are lying, they will be caught eventually, either by them visiting someone weird, someone flips a role that makes it weird for their role to exist or simply because scum will let her live very long. The biggest risk of letting her live is that she is a strong scum power and we will give her some extra nights to use her power, but even then she would have to be extra careful since she will have a lot of eyes on her.
CornBurrito
Member
That's the thing so, with the exception of Pearl, all the Town names we've seen thus far have been defense attorneys, prosecutors, or detectives. People actively involved in the legal process.
Pearl is the obvious exception to this rule, being a spirit medium.
Ron DeLite/Masque De Masque doesn't fit this trend. And you say 8 names isn't enough for a trend, but this is a 21 person game. That's near 38% of the names. 33% if we discount Marvin Grossberg.
CornBurrito
Member
Actually never mind on this whole topic.
Ezekiel isn't even worth considering as a vote target today. Even if neutral, he's not done anything to harm town. And he'll be able to showcase the power Star claims to have.
Note: Star being a jailor/roleblock doesn't equate to being town.
Ezekiel isn't even worth considering as a vote target today. Even if neutral, he's not done anything to harm town. And he'll be able to showcase the power Star claims to have.
Note: Star being a jailor/roleblock doesn't equate to being town.
This is a dangerous road to go on Corn, and I would advice you not to go there. I doubt Sorian would have done that, named roles are meant to make a game more fun, not to be an actual argument in discussions.
EzekelRAGE
Member
lol, what is it with you and trying to get me lynched? I guess you are done with trying to say I only roleclaimed under pressure (which is a lie) and are now continuing with your theory that I am a neutral.
1. What would be my win condition?
2. If I was scum or neutral, why would I have such a visible power?
A better case can be made for you being neutral than me.
Ron Delite - Defendant
Lana Skye - Defendant (Detective as well)
Pearl - Spirit Medium
Franziaska - Prosecutor
Edgeworths - Prosecutor/Defense Attorney
Trucy Wright - Magician?
Phoenix - Defense Attorney
Gumshoe - Detective
Looking at it that way, wouldn't you be the only pure detective on the list? Having nothing to do with being defended or prosecuted in a trial?
*Just looked over the AA wiki and skimmed their occupation and the first few lines on there, so could be wrong.
CornBurrito
Member
Yeah if you and Roy could read this post that'd be great.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Also meant to add that your power leaves no traces of identifying you unless you choose to breadcrumb/hint it, which you did.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Read it, still wanted to defend myself to the allegations. Since you still would want to continue this the next day phase.
Also what you said about her not being town can also be true for you. Anyway I will answer the questions I asked you about my role and apply them to your role.
1. What would be my win condition?
----To pass out a certain number of gifts
2. If I was scum or neutral, why would I have such a visible power?
----Your power is the most hidden, you can even breadcrum/hint at it being town while being a neutral.
Your sort of walking the perfect line. Your power seems town, which is why you breadcrumbed it as such. But scum won't want to kill you because there is a chance you will give them an item, since you have to do it each night.
CornBurrito
Member
I mean if you played the games you wouldn't consider seriously arguing that Detective Gumshoe doesn't fit in there with names like Edgeworth and Phoenix Wright lol.
CrimsonFist
Member
Mostly due to a) TWE's reactions to a vote on HipsterCuthulu, and b) neither of you have really done much to convince me of your townieness, or Hipster at least didn't do much of anything.
EzekelRAGE
Member
So no argument against your power possibly being neutral?
CrimsonFist
Member
This name argument is really weak. Being involved in the legal world is not in any way a pattern, since we have Trucy and Pearl. I'm not someone involved in the legal world either, I don't see any harm in saying that.
And Gumshoe would pretty unambiguously be town too, if he's in the game.
And Gumshoe would pretty unambiguously be town too, if he's in the game.
CornBurrito
Member
You ain't wrong. My role could very well be neutral. Though Gumshoe being neutral is kind of a violation of flavor. Not that that's a great argument.
As for setting myself up perfectly though, I disagree a bit. My role as you said is nearly invisible. Being so open with the role and putting myself in the spotlight isn't a good way to play the role if neutral and my condition depends on delivering X items. Staying invisible is much better. I breadcrumbed when I didn't even have to. I could have never posted burgers and then brought it up if I was at risk of being lynched.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Wouldn't him being scum be more of a violation than him being neutral? Can't really say what Sorian planned to do with names since as you said other main characters who may have been a bigger impact than Gumshoe didn't have any powers at all.
A good way to play the role, if your neutral is to make urself seem as useful to scum as you are town, which you have been doing. You didn't even have to roleclaim. No one was gonna vote for you after SD vouched for you. You started your breadcrumbing after I continued applying pressure to you on Day 2. SD vouched for you and no one brought it up again after she said I'm sure. You painted it as more serious than it needed to be with these posts:
Next day phase comes and you basically roleclaim w/o being provoked(or put in a seed to be provoked by saying you would elaborate later). You didn't even give the chance for anyone to question you. After being on you for a Day and a half I didn't even mention you because of SD. As you said, it benefits no one if you and SD elaborated.
You roleclaimed such a powerful town power role because of a theory that there MIGHT be a switcher? At least if Xam is to be believed he risked his life to give town another clear.
You didn't just say you give items to ppl but:
If you wanted to fly under the radar with such a town PR (which you shouldve), you wouldn't have wanted anyone to know anything. Only claimed anything when yuo are close to being lynched. When you claimed, no one put pressure on you, but yourself. The TOWNIE thing to do would be to make it seem like some minor thing. You could've come up with a million things since you know AA lore. Our 100% townie SD can confirm how powerful the item is and wouldn't need to make that public. So who are you typing this message for? It can't be for town. [
That reads to me like "Guys, I give out powerful items. Any neutrals or scum, I wouldn't target me if I were you."
Roy said you could be neutral, you countered with
To that I say, it's not unheard of for a neutral to have a secondary win condition. Robin Hood had to kill 3 ppl or just survive if one of his arrows didn't kill the target.
Roy's response to you:
With my ability still going thru even if the target dies, than your's most likely does also.
CB - How many items can you give out?
==================
I know that is Barba from SVU
EzekelRAGE
Member
Elaborate Later = He didnt say that but that he wouldn't elaborate which still plants the seeds of someone asking you to elaborate. It's like telling someone not to picture a pink elephant.
Also when xam asked him to elaborate. He didn't say "later" or try to stall or anything. Went straight to the roleclaim.
Also when xam asked him to elaborate. He didn't say "later" or try to stall or anything. Went straight to the roleclaim.
CornBurrito
Member
K.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Why don't you want to answer how many items you have?
StarSketch
Banned
]
I didn't have any other leads on who to protect- I basically was like "this is going to probably be a waste of time but I may as well do something"
Yeah, pretty much.
I didn't have any other leads on who to protect- I basically was like "this is going to probably be a waste of time but I may as well do something"
Yeah, pretty much.
Xamtheking
Member
Do you get a notification if you fail to jail someone?
StarSketch
Banned
Also if I have a role power and I want to bring attention to something, wouldn't 'speculating' about it be a good way to do it without claiming?
StarSketch
Banned
Not that I'm aware of? Role PM doesn't explicitly say so, nor does it hint at it.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Seems we not doing Starsketch today to test her ability with me?
Vote:CornBurrito
Believe he is neutral non killer.
That would leave neutral Killer and around 3 mafia left.
I'm suppose to be targeted by Star to test her power? Whether it goes thru tonight or not, how would this prove her role exactly?
If it goes thru, then we just assume her ability stops killing actions only?
If it doesn't, something is up since CB's action went thru.
It goes thru and she is still lying.
Vote:CornBurrito
Believe he is neutral non killer.
That would leave neutral Killer and around 3 mafia left.
I'm suppose to be targeted by Star to test her power? Whether it goes thru tonight or not, how would this prove her role exactly?
If it goes thru, then we just assume her ability stops killing actions only?
If it doesn't, something is up since CB's action went thru.
It goes thru and she is still lying.
StarSketch
Banned
If I block you, your vote power shouldn't work. You should still get a CB gift though.
This also means we're blatantly leaving Scrafty open, though. If there's another protector then she's fine, unless they opt to protect me or someone instead. Remember, I just made myself a target by even bringing this up. If there were a role that scum needs to be rid of, it's mine.
EzekelRAGE
Member
ahhh, k.
Well, if she jails you, that would mean your vote steal would get blocked so we would see no double vote from you tomorrow. That at least proves she can roleblock.
A) You posted that when I was typing my post, and
B) You backed down for using that argument against Ezekel because you thought it doesn't really matter if he is neutral or town since he is acting pro town for now, NOT because you realized how bad an argument using role names is to determine that kind of stuff.
I think its pretty obvious why CB doesn't want to say how many items he has. Scum won't kill him because there is a chance they can get something good out of it, by CB giving an item to them by mistake. Also, if he says how many they have (Say, 3), then he will have no leverage to be useful to town/neutral/scum, and people will suspect him or pile on him. Why would he reveal his full hand?
Some people forget that keeping info from town is not always anti-town.
Its also the same reason Ezekiel is ok revealing his role. His role is inoffensive right now and the perfect shield to express his opinions without fear of getting lynched.
Also scum/neutral have much better roles to target tonight. Scrafty, Star and Xam are the likely targets and there is no way in hell we have 3 protecting roles, at most we have one more if we believe Star.
Really this has been a role claiming fest so far and the one I dislike the most is still Xam's.
Also scum/neutral have much better roles to target tonight. Scrafty, Star and Xam are the likely targets and there is no way in hell we have 3 protecting roles, at most we have one more if we believe Star.
Really this has been a role claiming fest so far and the one I dislike the most is still Xam's.
If we don't have another protector, she is doomed anyway. Like you said, if you aren't scum you are likely a prime nk target. You die => scrafty is open the next Night.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Ok, makes sense. Only snag about Star's claim is her acting surprised when CB's gift went through since her role pm says specifically it only stops killing abilities. Someelse bought that up as well thought if I'm not mistaken.
Also, is it possible StarSketch was the one to block CB last night? She was in the midst when SD posted about her being 100% sure CB is town.
If he states how many he has scum would still feel the same way about getting an item. Also he was teh one to reveal a majority of the hand anyway by posting about giving out powerful items, trying to appeal to the scum players and the neutral killer.
CrimsonFist
Member
If she was a scum RB, I'd be very surprised if she blocked CB over Xam.
CornBurrito
Member
I'll ask Scrafty for her opinion. Should I just be open and honest about the number of items I have left? Should I bother explaining what they do?
I won't give away what your item does since that could take away from the effectiveness. But for the others it doesn't matter as much.
I won't give away what your item does since that could take away from the effectiveness. But for the others it doesn't matter as much.
CrimsonFist
Member
Honestly, if CB is a neutral whos win condition is to hand out all his items, I don't really see it as a massive issue. As long as he keeps giving items to people we trust as town.
But his playstyle hasn't really looked like a neutral trying to avoid a night kill to me.
Also, I don't think it's worth wasting Star's protect on Zeke just to verify her. If she's town she won't live much longer regardless, and I'd rather not be telling scum who's being protected tonight.
But his playstyle hasn't really looked like a neutral trying to avoid a night kill to me.
Also, I don't think it's worth wasting Star's protect on Zeke just to verify her. If she's town she won't live much longer regardless, and I'd rather not be telling scum who's being protected tonight.
EzekelRAGE
Member
True.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Why didn't you ask/wait for SD's opinion on the whole roleclaim about having powerful items in the first place?
CornBurrito
Member
Honestly? Its my first time having a town PR, and I wasn't sure how to play it.
I felt roleclaiming was the best thing to do, because a switcher could seriously impact the game at a later stage and I think our other PR needed to be aware of the possibility.
True, it's an option she can pick, or she can do something else. It's always a good thing to leave scum guessing a bit about what our pr are going to do.
If she's town. Her lack of certainty about her own role pm troubles me. I find it difficult to believe that her role pm would not clearly state that her power only affected kills. That seems like kind of an important factual detail. So either she received an unclear role pm from Sorian, and then failed to follow up with him for clarification, or she's lying and she fucked up her claim by adding that level of uncertainty about scrafty getting an item by thinking it would sound more authentic or something.
Jailing scrafty as well is problematic because it is a guaranteed lack of useful information there.
I don't want to pick targets for a potential protective role but if starsketch is scum she could string this along for days. The only way we can actually verify anything about her is if we kill this neutral killer and she blocks a mafia kill or if xam investigates her at some point (without being coordinated in the thread). Otherwise even if she roleblocks zeke, all it proves is that she has a roleblock.
EzekelRAGE
Member
You don't find anything odd with the unwarranted roleclaim? Playing to scum with the powerful items wording? That's weird since you managed to pick up on RNH breadcrumbing PW(I think that was you neway) and you picked up on clues about me and my power.
So you blame the unneeded roleclaim on inexperience? Even after the responses to Xam's roleclaim? You've also had around 3-4 games of mafia experience seeing how to properly play roleclaims.
That really makes no sense given the fact we still didn't know who the switcher was. From your first post about the switcher, you said they saved Xam, so you seem to think the switcher is town
The way I read her posts is that she was unclear about it, and then reread her role pm after scrafty got an item and realized it DID say it only protects against killing powers. But yeah, I agree that that is a weird thing to get wrong when first reading your role pm.
flatearthpandas
Member
So, not really then. I've already addressed both of these but I guess I shouldn't be surprised you don't acknowledge that considering your vote was driveby. Doesn't seem like you're really trying to hunt scum here.
Maybe I'm not understanding the question here. But if he states how many items, scum can kill him off as soon as he's done, providing he doesn't just leave the game on his own. If they don't know when he's finished, they'll leave him alone in hopes that he might accidentally give them one.
I have to say, this sounds like an actual neutral role to me. The odds are in towns favor with this one though. We've had a lot of potentially dangerous town roles claimed as well between you, the vig, and CB. Not sure what to think about that.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Random observation while checkin out who pointed out the RNH/PW angle.
Actually it was Xam who pointed it out.
5:47
5:51
5:53
5:54 - Says maybe you can't read that as PW crumbs
Actually it was Xam who pointed it out.
5:47
5:51
5:53
5:54 - Says maybe you can't read that as PW crumbs
That post was one of the ones Xam linked to RNH being PW
Even if they know when he's finished, he is still in no threat. On the chance he is neutral, Mafia can still keep him alive since they can win with a neutral who doesn't kill.
CornBurrito
Member
You're mistaken if you think I believe the initial roleclaim was a mistake. The only thing I wasn't sure about was how much to disclose.
StarSketch
Banned
Yeah, I didn't really think about it that hard when I first read it and assumed 'roleblock' meant prevents using and receiving actions.
Wait, what? Why would you assume that? Role blocking has nothing to do with preventing actions done to the target,it only prevents the target from doing something.