It's a birdirectional relationship so it's absolutely partly on the consumer. Companies don't exist in a vacuum. They will act as rotten as customers, and legal/regulatory mechanisms, allow. Companies would not do this type of stuff if they expected to be punished for it in the near term, and long term to a lesser extent.
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Shipping Unfinished/Unpolished Games Now, Apologizing Later With Patch Roadmap
- Thread starter SOLDIER
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It's a birdirectional relationship so it's absolutely partly on the consumer. Companies don't exist in a vacuum. They will act as rotten as customers, and legal/regulatory mechanisms, allow. Companies would not do this type of stuff if they expected to be punished for it in the near term, and long term to a lesser extent.
J
JeremyEtcetera
Unconfirmed Member
This has been the slow(and predicted) decline of quality from what was originally birthed as 'games as a service'. You can't even combat this with low sales/no sales numbers, because then the said publisher will blame everyone but themselves and fire a talented developer. It is literally a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. The best we can hope for at this point are patches, because at least those show that some of them care about feedback.
Edit: Furthermore, this way of treating games is forcing my hand to buy them as digital copies when I used to prefer discs last gen and before. What is the literal point of a disc other than to bypass the first 20 or so gigs you have to download, when you're just going to download 20 or more gigs in the near future. Especially since version 1.0(which is the disc version) may be a broken mess. They are one step away from becoming glorified artistic coasters.
Edit: Furthermore, this way of treating games is forcing my hand to buy them as digital copies when I used to prefer discs last gen and before. What is the literal point of a disc other than to bypass the first 20 or so gigs you have to download, when you're just going to download 20 or more gigs in the near future. Especially since version 1.0(which is the disc version) may be a broken mess. They are one step away from becoming glorified artistic coasters.
Eh, they may put out a 1.01 patch that fixes some typos. Very little man hours is required for such a thing.
I know I'm not the only one who felt really, really confident in Persona 5's quality.
I also didn't want to lose out the amazing discount I got on the Take Your Heart CE.
If I had to be suspicious of every single new release on the grounds that it wouldn't hit its intended quality months later, I would be a significantly more jaded gamer. I'd probably quit games altogether.
Yes, the P5 issue is much smaller than the other listed examples, but it's still a big disappointment as it follows the same publishing conceit. I'll probably get over it as I venture farther into the game (I barely just got done with the first dungeon, and am still in tutorial mode), but it's still a sour spot considering NieR Automata, Horizon Zero Dawn and (framerate aside) BotW all launched perfectly.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Really? I can't remember the last time I played a game that I felt was glitchy and unfinished other than Twisted Fusion, but I came across that randomly.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
No Mans' Sky was a developer problem from looks of it, the rest of those are likely due to publisher.
Like others have said, not sure why you decided to throw in Persona 5, that kicks your hyperbole up to hyperbole².
Like others have said, not sure why you decided to throw in Persona 5, that kicks your hyperbole up to hyperbole².
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
They MAY but they havent said anything and theres no day 1 patch.
Lumping Persona 5 in with trash like No Mans Sky and Mass Effect Andromeda is quite frankly insulting and an easy way to discredit any valid argument OP might have had.
But what's your timeline for updates?
Primethius
Banned
Nah dude. Putting it as a thing about "cheapness" is a BS excuse. Don't cherry pick.
And the localization is mostly great. Eh.
moltonasty
Member
For sure, but at least it incentivized shipping the game as complete as possible. Whereas now it's literally "eh we can fix it later, just get it out within the fiscal year"
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
Wow at how many people Ctrl + F 'persona 5' and then didn't read anything else so they could lose their shit. He didn't say it was unfinished. He outlined why he's including it.
It has a big glaring problem that could put a lot of people off of buying/playing it right now until the issue is possibly corrected later down the line. It goes on the list.
I agree with Nirolak: the downsides of PC gaming have tagged along with the upsides too. That doesn't make it okay, but it does mean that we as consumers have to find ways of pressuring companies to start giving a shit about their product launches. Easiest way is to not preorder BUT ALSO to be vocal about why we aren't preordering instead of them just scratching their heads and taking less risks because they don't know why we won't preorder.
It has a big glaring problem that could put a lot of people off of buying/playing it right now until the issue is possibly corrected later down the line. It goes on the list.
I agree with Nirolak: the downsides of PC gaming have tagged along with the upsides too. That doesn't make it okay, but it does mean that we as consumers have to find ways of pressuring companies to start giving a shit about their product launches. Easiest way is to not preorder BUT ALSO to be vocal about why we aren't preordering instead of them just scratching their heads and taking less risks because they don't know why we won't preorder.
Papacheeks
Banned
For most multiplayer intensive games and games with a known rocky development I see this being an issue. But when you also get games out the gate like horizon, or on the Japanese side like Yakuza 0, Gravity rush 2, Tales of Bersaria, Persona 5, even resident evil 7 it seems to be specific games not all.
I would say most of western third party games usually are the bigger culprits. Looking at you Mass Effect:A.
I mean Nintendo you rarely see anything like this for the most part, zelda is the first game I'v seen in a long time in such a state framerate/performance wise from then that needed immediate patching.
I don't expect to see games like MARIO KRT,ARMS and the later having as many issues since they were planned switch developed games. Zelda was in essence ported/developed within the last year for switch.
Hopefully we get more games like YAKUZA, persona 5, horizon and the likes that only make small updates for little things. But when it comes to multiplatform big published games from the west it really is dissapointing.
So many in the last year or so like Dishonored, Mafia 3, Just cause 3 among others that run like shit or are inconstant.
jasminlovesyoux
Banned
Quality Assurance testing is so far gone at this point in the industry. It still exists but companies don't put as many resources into it because the advent of patching. Years ago people sang praises of it since games could have game breaking bugs patched. But back in my day we didn't need to worry since everything was tested and polished. No need to worry about this crap we're dealing with today. It isn't about game deadlines. It's about devs saving a few bucks on not having to test their shit.
This has been my philosophy after No Man's Sky. I don't even trust reviews anymore. I wait until the community plays the game for a few weeks, and if the general consensus is that the game is incomplete, I wait and buy the game on sale, but only if the major issues are fixed. I skipped FFXV and Mass Effect Andromeda because of this.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
It's just one example that was on OP's mind? The takeaway I got from it was to show that not all launch issues are always game-breaking, and they find it frustrating that a game they think should have had a seamless launch (critical acclaim, growing worldwide popularity of the franchise, numerous delays granting plenty of extra time for the localization), still gets bogged down by strange decisions from management and the occasional oddity. Blocking the ability to stream the game or use the screenshot feature is also something that I can completely understand detracting from someone's experience with the game at launch, if they want to save their favourite moments or share them with their friends.
Sure it may be a bit nitpicky in comparison to other games, but whether one agrees or disagrees with it, it's OP's thread and if that's how they feel about the game then they should be able to mention it as an example if they want to.
FrankHowley
Member
The Hamburglar
Banned
It's why I haven't Day oned a game in a long time. I've got plently of stuff to play or watch. Can happily wait and get the not so fucked version at a cheaper price.
There are far far too many great games lately to play them all so for me this simply points out the ones I can feel comfortable passing on. Not interested in playing a half assed shipped game nor supporting that as a business practice. I'll spend my money elsewhere, on products that respect the customer's time and wallet.
Tbh most of the fixes for FFXV so far are to address things that players commonly cited as inadequate, unpolished, or unfun. I wouldn't say that's the same as it being incomplete.
(The one part of the game that actually feels incomplete to me is chapter 9 but as far as I know that hasn't been touched by patches)
(The one part of the game that actually feels incomplete to me is chapter 9 but as far as I know that hasn't been touched by patches)
Avallon
Member
Never going to happen.
I don't agree that FFXV was unfinished or unpolished. What's there on Day 1 is a pretty awesome product. The things they are added, I'm unsure if they were supposed to be there Day 1 and it really does just seem like they are adding things that fans asked for versus SF V that is lacking basic features fighting games have had for eternity.
MindGamingMantis
Banned
Why the fuck is p5 there? It's awesome so far.
I agree with OP. It's getting bad with some games. Definitely super dissapointed in ME:A. Mass Effect is my favourite new series last gen. So, will not buy ME:A until shit is fixed and for very cheap. Feels like it's made by a C Team.
So strange that some publishers/devs rather have their credibility destroyed than to delay it and release a fully functioning game.
But what's up with Persona 5? I have read the thread about the localisation, but what's the streaming issue?
So strange that some publishers/devs rather have their credibility destroyed than to delay it and release a fully functioning game.
But what's up with Persona 5? I have read the thread about the localisation, but what's the streaming issue?
people solely railing on OP for including Persona should probably move along
that said, the paragraph talking about Persona reads like OP would prefer a situation where a game has issues and a publisher stays quiet to a game having issues and a publisher releasing an update schedule.
I'd prefer releases without issues to releases with issues+info to releases with issues and no info. Info, however, should be expected and not praiseworthy. This seems obvious.
that said, the paragraph talking about Persona reads like OP would prefer a situation where a game has issues and a publisher stays quiet to a game having issues and a publisher releasing an update schedule.
I'd prefer releases without issues to releases with issues+info to releases with issues and no info. Info, however, should be expected and not praiseworthy. This seems obvious.
Depending on the degree it's acceptable but sometimes I just can't understand how it can slide so easily.
Thanks for making me laugh a little in front of my screen.
Dead Man Typing
Member
Hassle-free refund policy on consoles similar to Steam.
So what happens when it's a game you really, really wanted? Like literally counting the days, you need to have it NOW?
The people who toss in this defense are pretty much saying "Don't be excited for anything".
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Agreed. I remember looking forward to PC gaming magazines that came with free floppies or CDs that had not only new demos, but also patches.
Some games had some serious gamebreaking issues at launch as well. Fallout 2 comes to mind - it wasn't too bad to go hunt for a patch in the late 90s though since it was easier to go on the internet by then.
That wasn't true in the good old days either. Many old games are still stuck with several game breaking glitches. Many old games shipped completely broken and unplayable, and had to be recalled.
johancruijff
Banned
Buying my right to complain
JigglesBunny
Banned
Patching in general is an issue this generation. Nothing is more off-putting than bringing home a new game only to sit through a 12GB patch that includes half of the games content.
Hell, I picked up RB6: Siege to play with some friends on Xbox last night and 13GB were on the disc, 22GB worth of updates needed to be installed. I understand there's additional content that's been added but almost double the initial games size? That's insane.
Hell, I picked up RB6: Siege to play with some friends on Xbox last night and 13GB were on the disc, 22GB worth of updates needed to be installed. I understand there's additional content that's been added but almost double the initial games size? That's insane.
MCC
No, it's very dumb.
I mean, yes, it's a dumb thing, but what i mean, P5 not allowing you to stream with the PS4 native tool is not a bug, it's not a half finished feature, not a flaw nor "unpolished", it's an absurd but very intentional design choice.
antennaehead
Member
I don't think there is malicious intent behind this trend. Shipping unfinished product and patching it up later is a terrible business practice - considering that first impressions and sales are often the most important. But sure, sometimes for one reason or another it can't be helped - see No Man's Sky or Mass Effect: Andromeda.
The way I see it, there is a trend of supporting failed product post-launch, and it could actually be considered as something positive. Ubisoft seems to be headliner in that case - with its continuous support of Rainbow Six Siege, The Division, or For Honor/Watch Dogs 2 lately.
The way I see it, there is a trend of supporting failed product post-launch, and it could actually be considered as something positive. Ubisoft seems to be headliner in that case - with its continuous support of Rainbow Six Siege, The Division, or For Honor/Watch Dogs 2 lately.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Mass Effect: Andromeda's awful character faces weren't a bug either.
It's still yet another thing that they have to go back and fix, because it wasn't a problem until the internet mocked them for it.
The P5 no-streaming thing is also scummy for a similar reason, because people are now being spoiled by Twitter bots (happened to a buddy of mine yesterday in fact) and other retaliatory measures.
It's as if the concept of early access is bleeding over into regular releases.
I've never wanted to buy a game in early access. If I'm already interested in a game, I don't want to play a alpha/beta build. I'd rather wait to get the fully realized version.
I'm never okay with an unpolished, buggy game, but I don't mind some situations where they later patch in features.
Rock Band 4 is a notable example, albeit a bit odd with its release. Harmonix gathered data on what people wanted in the game, and multiplayer wasn't as important. Seeing as how they were dealing with a limited budget, a niche genre, and a smaller dev team, they didn't include it. Eventually through the $30 Rivals expansion, multiplayer was introduced.
In cases with smaller developers or indie games, I'm more lenient. In the case of a big budget AAA game that's been in development for 2+ years, stuff like this is inexcusable.
I've never wanted to buy a game in early access. If I'm already interested in a game, I don't want to play a alpha/beta build. I'd rather wait to get the fully realized version.
I'm never okay with an unpolished, buggy game, but I don't mind some situations where they later patch in features.
Rock Band 4 is a notable example, albeit a bit odd with its release. Harmonix gathered data on what people wanted in the game, and multiplayer wasn't as important. Seeing as how they were dealing with a limited budget, a niche genre, and a smaller dev team, they didn't include it. Eventually through the $30 Rivals expansion, multiplayer was introduced.
In cases with smaller developers or indie games, I'm more lenient. In the case of a big budget AAA game that's been in development for 2+ years, stuff like this is inexcusable.
OniBarubary
Banned
People acting like no games for the Atari 2600 and NES and Playstation weren't buggy, awfully translated messes.
How does that make the current state of affairs excusable?
Doesn't apply here.
You aren't usually told in advance that a game will be "better" down the line, nor is it a guarantee that something that launched in an unideal state will get ironed out down the line.