Ask yourself how well known that symbol actually is. Missing it seems absolutely possible.
Not to mention that only elements of this resemble the kekistan flag. It's not a 1:1 copy
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Bungie explains the Gauntlet Incident
- Thread starter Strakt
- Start date
Not to mention that only elements of this resemble the kekistan flag. It's not a 1:1 copy
Not the poster but when some Horde player says "lol", it translates as "kek" for the Alliance.
tkscz
Member
Look through out this very thread. See how many people didn't even know Kekistan or whatever was even a thing. Yes, it's VERY easy to miss something relatively unknown.
Seriously. I watched footage of Charlottesville and thought I read up on what happened there as well, and this flag never once stood out to me. I've no idea what it is about. The funny thing is, you have a few posters in this thread commenting on how it has "obviously" been co-opted, or if you just spent some time on twitter then you would clearly see this new meaning - almost as though those of us who have never seen nor heard of the kekistan flag are out of touch, when in reality it's those that think this is common knowledge that are out of touch with the general populace. Most people don't spend their days keeping up with white supremacist memes and I don't think that's an inherently bad thing.
SomedayTheFire
Member
No they are not. Don't do this.
What happened was unfortunate, but I believe Bungie when they say what happened was unintentional. The symbols are indicative of the Hakke foundry in the game, and Legendary weapons and armor have typically had that neon green/dark blue color scheme.
I just wish people would have let Bungie make a statement before calling for the firing of some anonymous artist, because at best 'kek' has always been something synonymous with 'lol'.
If anything, they are laughing their asses off.
This incident gave them exposure and has basically increased their co-opting of kek. Same thing happened to Pepe, where /pol/ rejoiced they got Pepe back from the normies once the mainstream media declared he was a symbol for hate groups.
I just wish people would have let Bungie make a statement before calling for the firing of some anonymous artist, because at best 'kek' has always been something synonymous with 'lol'.
If anything, they are laughing their asses off.
This incident gave them exposure and has basically increased their co-opting of kek. Same thing happened to Pepe, where /pol/ rejoiced they got Pepe back from the normies once the mainstream media declared he was a symbol for hate groups.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
By not having had both images side by side..
Audioboxer
Member
It's cool! Debates can happen and sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong. That's life. I did think there was a chance I would be wrong, but my main point was just air a little bit of caution on this one before some others went full internet-bandwagon on someone's job. There was a tiny worry in my head people would legitimately start tracking down designers names if Bungie didn't somehow publicly investigate further. Thankfully they have. If you convince a large group of people there is genuinely a white supremacist somewhere, then there's a chance someone is going to try and play internet detective to weed out names/social media profiles. I think Bungie will have been aware of that too, especially if they read that GAF thread/internet in general.
I thought they were literal K's at first too, as I was going on the image the internet has been using and unlike the one I found/posted hours later the outline border around the > wasn't as clear.
I think they're more concerned chalking this up to "hur dee hur liberals trolled and overreacting yet again". Which is why conspiracy theories in light of Bungie's 2nd response aren't going to help the cause here.
Blam
Member
Yeah if you're not in these groups you will literally never hear of these in your entire life. Also if this was made in 2015, these people don't understand that sometimes shit like this just flys under the radar.
Sure it was flagged, but Bungie wasn't gonna quadruple check every single armor texture in the entire game for a resemblance to a flag is gonna be pretty difficult. Especially when it's use was after the game started development.
You need to specifically search for these things which is pretty hard to do when you're on crunch time forgetting about the rest of the world to get your game out. Like sure to the outside it might be like they are covering their asses. But during a development crunch you don't have time to care about checking if your armor looks similar to a meme flag turned serious.
Especially when you just flipped a design like Bungie just mentioned.
People make similar designs all the time. In all forms of art, including music. There's multiple people who thought they made a new song and then noticed they just recreated the Office theme song.
Sounds like next update, they'll be modifying the armour, yeah. I wonder if they'll go for something stylistically analogous but unrelated, or try a whole new design entirely.
SuperBanana
Banned
This is a very obscure symbol used by a niche group on the internet. I guarantee 99% of people would have no clue what it was or is. You're acting like they accidentally put a clan hood in as a helmet or a seig heil as an emote.
I believe Shaxx can give you these same gauntlets but with a different design on them.
I can't believe (no, I can totally believe) how hard people want this to NOT BE AN ACCIDENT, like they will die for this to have been on purpose. The extent you want to go to prove something you can't, which is the information & intent that was in another human's brain (a human you can't identify) at X time, says too much, maybe, about how far you are from logic.
As evidenced by forums where this topic has come up, MOST game players don't have a damn clue what the fuck kek is (though the WoW use does ring a bell personally). It's incredibly buried. Stop pretending it's common knowledge.
Even ignoring the part where they aren't K's but are chevrons.. If you want to have a heart attack, next time you watch sci-fi or play a sci-fi game, pay attention to how many back-to-back letter logos there are in general. It's among the most generic-ass designs you can get.
It doesn't even have to be sci-fi. Just go to google and search for "K K Brands" lmao.
Quick, someone tell Kim Kardashian her line is NEARING DANGEROUS TERRITORY!
This is a long ass post to say I'm glad Bungie did what they did and said what they said and we should move on with our lives now.
As evidenced by forums where this topic has come up, MOST game players don't have a damn clue what the fuck kek is (though the WoW use does ring a bell personally). It's incredibly buried. Stop pretending it's common knowledge.
Even ignoring the part where they aren't K's but are chevrons.. If you want to have a heart attack, next time you watch sci-fi or play a sci-fi game, pay attention to how many back-to-back letter logos there are in general. It's among the most generic-ass designs you can get.
It doesn't even have to be sci-fi. Just go to google and search for "K K Brands" lmao.
Quick, someone tell Kim Kardashian her line is NEARING DANGEROUS TERRITORY!
This is a long ass post to say I'm glad Bungie did what they did and said what they said and we should move on with our lives now.
vasametropolis
Member
It is ridiculous to assume Bungie would promote anything like this knowingly. I believe their response because any company in the same position would have zero problem terminating an employee who did this with malice. It's almost an easier PR response to fire a person. Staying the course suggests they are convinced it was an accident as it's honestly the harder PR position.
PSYGN
Member
Those people are not designers and do not understand that through design trends and constraints (futuristic theme) that it is a very possible arrangement of shapes without any sinister intention. Here is where the Kekistan fucks probably stole the logo from (2012):
Designed by Nicole Meyer in 2012 for Lake Kek
https://web.archive.org/web/20120701000000*/http://branding10000lakes.com/kek-lake/
Too complex to be a coincidence? As a designer I could easily imagine the stages of how this design came to be. And we're assuming that the four white extended bars between the ʞk is supposed to represent an E - there are people who donned it and didn't even read it that way before the article. Certainly not on the coincidental level of ten thousand monkeys bashing on the keyboard and writing a work of Shakespeare as someone compared it to.
HF2014
Member
I really beleive that 99% of the staff were unaware of the signification of the logo, and probably most of gaffers here, like me. But this designer knew what he was doing. It too close to the original, vertical vs horizental bars and adding a line aint gonna cut it for giving him a free pass.
It was created before the flag existed. Please read.
But... The kekistan flag was only conceived earlier this year. Bungie said the asset was created in 2015. So did the guy divine the flag from the future?
The similarity is striking, but the exonerating datum is the Bungie art creation date (2015), well before the Kekistan flag meme.
Edit - Beaten to the punch. Twice.
I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about (see the post above yours, among others). I also love how so many people in here seem to be employing the "guilty until proven innoncent" principle which is just all kinds of backwards.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
It bothers me because it's true. GAF is full of people who don't ACTUALLY want to discuss things. A lot of people have their mind's made up before ever making a post. It's a bit "live journaly" at times. It is what it is and that's unfortunately the way things go.
I personally never thought that the KEK shit was intentional. There is some similarity, sure, and Bungie is probably doing the right thing by removing it...But even after just discovering what that flag is and what it represents, I don't look at the gauntlet and say, "Holy shit, white supremacy!"
I can't even begin to follow your logic given the facts we've been presented. I just can't...
Audioboxer
Member
Damn, well found, I didn't know that. Only that kek meant cake in Turkish. You were one of the posters I referenced a few times in that other topic as a designer that came in to say google the "KK monogram".
Lake Kek from 2012 is now responsible for Kekistan, I guess? Or Bungie copied Lake Kek... Funnily enough, I don't think I've seen any trolls actually co-opt Lake Kek... RIP Lake Kek.
no you see bungie is just lying to cover their racist asses, its pretty obvious, i can see right through their lies this was no accident because it lines with my world views of believing malice instead of ignorance for everything
Does designing it before the flag existed give him a pass?
Wow, good find. Wonder if Lake Kek could shut the Kekistan flag down by claiming copyright.
VibratingDonkey
Member
I'll take their word for it. No reason not to. Bungie doesn't have a bad rep like that.
It seemed proper likely, but my apologies for wrongfully assuming the person responsible for creating the art had malicious intent.
Bungie solely deserves props for how they've handled this, how when they were eventually made aware, they addressed it swiftly and communicated with their community.
It seemed proper likely, but my apologies for wrongfully assuming the person responsible for creating the art had malicious intent.
Bungie solely deserves props for how they've handled this, how when they were eventually made aware, they addressed it swiftly and communicated with their community.
Andronicus
Banned
do you really believe its a racist company or.....
"ignorance for everything" doesn't cut it in the real world
the fact that * a large number of people* here are trying to turn this shit into a joke is part of the problem should something like this happen again. perpetuating marginalization, nice one folks.
autoduelist
Member
Before these threads, I didn't know kek meant 'lol'.
Before these threads, I also never heard of kekistan or 'kek' used -anywhere-, for any reason.
It's just 3 letters to me, which is perhaps why it's easy for me to see how easy this design could be duplicated without malicious intent.
That only makes it worse! Damn time travelling racists.
legacyzero
Banned
The thread revealing this was hard for me to read. There were people calling for jobs to be lost, etc. It's just a random compilation of shapes that at first glance, ads to the decoration. I read so many posts that it was "done intentionally" by the artist. Some of ya'll have got to stop with the knee-jerk outrage and at least wait for them to investigate. I mean... It's fucking BUNGIE, of all devs. If it's one thing you can always give them, it's the benefit of the doubt for stuff like this.
Second- let's for 1 second just think of the possibility that it WAS done intentionally by a sole artist. I think it's fair to assume that BUNGIE wouldn't condone that kind of behavior, and would have thrown that fucker into the sun if they even sniffed the slightest of intent.
Second- let's for 1 second just think of the possibility that it WAS done intentionally by a sole artist. I think it's fair to assume that BUNGIE wouldn't condone that kind of behavior, and would have thrown that fucker into the sun if they even sniffed the slightest of intent.
This is a troll post. It HAS to be.
That's some Inspector Gadget-ass reach. CMON man...
autoduelist
Member
This still hurts my head. It's just the first letter reversed [extremely common design element] and the bar in an E removed [for symmetry]. That two artists came up with this isn't rocket science, it's -likely-.
The only reason the bars go vertical in the flag is because they are from the KEK going up and down, not the KEK going left and right.
This is all extremely basic design. Very common. Google KK logo, and you'll see backward ks everywhere. It is not some wild coincidence that two KEK logos look similar when what the designers did is just very basic logo tricks given an anagram with two Ks and an E.
PSYGN
Member
I was going to post it in the other thread several days ago, but I felt like the people I would be arguing against have already made up their mind at that point even though you made a nice post laying out how the design could have come to be without sinister intention. I would post it from the perspective of "another designer has made the same similar arrangement" to which I felt they'd look at it and say "Well Kekistan stole it and the artist probably looked to the Kekistan flag as an inspiration" which is possible as well, so it wouldn't really sway the argument. Now that we have some facts from Bungie themselves (which I'm sure a few will continue on and say that Bungie is just trying to save face), I thought it'd be an interesting thing to note. There's two unique shapes, one flipped. Not impossible to accidentally recreate especially with design trends and constraints. I think a lot of people who saw it as a direct copy are not artists or designers and can't imagine the process behind it, and I'm not saying that to turn it into "us vs them" mentality. It's just what it is.
Jacksinthe
Banned
This is true but I disagree that that's the way things go (naturally occurring). The staff can easily crack down on people who sling BS for the sake of slinging BS in an attempt to associate another poster or individual with something negative to label people. There's a legit discussion to be had about the seriousness of the issue but flatly altering events or context to fit your narrative or your beliefs is ignorance. That's not going to help anyone or any situation and it happens too often. I've made up my mind to stay out of OT these days because of it.
I don't know what you're trying to say with your post, but what I meant with my sarcastic post is that some people are writing as if they know more then Bungie, and that the designers are racist, and that there is NO WAY it wasn't an accident, because accidents simply can't happen or something.
Okay I apologize if I didn't make it clear lol, it was a sarcastic post.
HF2014
Member
Bungie can say whatever they need to protect the artist and themself. But just asking, creating logo for a game you would be making, would it be one of the first thing in development you need to do or one of the last thing? Just asking. There is no f way im going to beleive the artist did this unintentionally.
one of my coworkers has this as his desktop wallpaper. He isn't someone I ever have to talk to, but it really bugs me. :|
That's very disturbing. Please consider talking to your HR department about this.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
Notify your HR dept.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
"Bungie is risking a much worse PR issue by lying to protect a racist employee that is easy to replace" is fucking insanity compared to "The design was created in 2015 and this is an unfortunate coincidence."
Occam's razor is a thing for a reason
Finale Fireworker
Member
Tell HR.
The Jazz Cabbage Master
Member
I think some of you REALLY overestimate the permeation of these obscure internet memes into the world. this kek shit with the flag is obscure. That doesn't change the meaning of what it is being used for but we seriously need to maintain perspective when it comes to weird shit like this.
legacyzero
Banned
Oh good.
They probably have a constant stream of assets being created that they've been stockpiling since before Destiny 1 launched...
Temeculan3000
Member
Someone catch me up on this thread. Are we banning all horde WOW players or what?
We are revising history already?
no, they were racist symbols. They were flagged as such. they were removed from the game immediately with an apology. they were not just elements.
stirring up interest is cited for the quick removal. we should be happy people spoke loudly and quickly about it being a racist symbol, as they were correct and action was taken.
HF2014
Member
Probably, yeah.