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Playstation 3 CFW & Homebrew Technical Help Thread -- morality arguments elsewhere

K

KtSlime

Member
Jakfu said:
?
Click to expand...

Well it used to work that you could log onto netflix and it would request for you to log onto PSN as well, if it failed getting on PSN it would still load netflix.

They updated the netflix relay server to disable your netflix account if you can't log onto PSN.

Bastards.

LovingSteam: Yeah, but netflix is not really a PSN feature and is just tied to it so Sony can boost their PSN account numbers for board meetings.

Unfortunately I can't set up a proxy due to my Internet connection, I guess I'm going to have to go out and buy a new router I can use as a bridge.
 
K

kitch9

Banned
Dambrosi said:
If that's true, then how am I still able to access PSN using 3.55CFW and the DNS trick? Why is PSN not recognizing my firmware as old and blocking it? I genuinely don't get it.
Click to expand...

Sony may be letting CFW onto PSN in the short term to data farm, and get an idea of how quick things are spreading. CFW may leave an obvious signature PSN that they can see.
 
A

angelfly

Member
kitch9 said:
Sony may be letting CFW onto PSN in the short term to data farm, and get an idea of how quick things are spreading. CFW may leave an obvious signature PSN that they can see.
Click to expand...
Mathieulh said something along the lines of 3.56 allowing Sony to remotely run code to perform checks and they were able to update those checks as well. So I'm guessing when users connect without the actual 3.56 firmware that test will fail (since it'll be unable to run) and it'll be obvious it's CFW console. They probably aren't using it now but I suspect they will soon.
 
D

Dambrosi

Banned
kitch9 said:
Sony may be letting CFW onto PSN in the short term to data farm, and get an idea of how quick things are spreading. CFW may leave an obvious signature PSN that they can see.
Click to expand...
I would see your point, but this trick has worked before, and not with CFWs, just old firmwares. I'm just wondering why it works...and has worked before.

Before now, though, I've not had any reason to use it. Kinda glad it's still around, if only for the short term.

Angelfly said:
Mathieulh said something along the lines of 3.56 allowing Sony to remotely run code to perform checks and they were able to update those checks as well. So I'm guessing when users connect without the actual 3.56 firmware that test will fail (since it'll be unable to run) and it'll be obvious it's CFW console. They probably aren't using it now but I suspect they will soon.
Click to expand...
You're probably right in that Sony aren't actively checking for <3.56 right now (though what makes no sense is, shouldn't PSN be doing the firmware number checks from its side? And when it detects a firmware <3.56, shouldn't it boot me and prompt me to update? Yet, thanks to my changing my DNS servers, it doesn't seem to check my firmware number at all, and just lets me in as normal. I know I'm not spoofing the FW number, so why is this?), but it will eventually happen. After that, our fate is in the lap of the Gods, as it were.
 
A

Argyle

Member
N.A said:
For those who are curious about the new PS3 security, it seems Sony has implemented something in 3.56 I mentioned here a few weeks ago that is the same as Microsoft uses to detect and ban 360's.

Mathieulh just posted about it on IRC.

Essentially Sony can now remotely execute code on the PS3 as soon as you connect. This can do whatever Sony wants it to do such as verifying system files or searching for homebrew. Sony can change the code and add new detection methods without any firmware updates and as the code executes remotely there is no reliable way to forge the replies.

Whilst it is possible to patch or remove this code from the firmware this will likely mean the end of playing CFW online (as PSN can just check before login that this is active) or at the very least mean it will be even easier for Sony to detect and ban users.

Judging from the fact that people can still connect using the proxy method it seems Sony hasn't activated any of this yet but the functions are there in the new firmware.
Click to expand...

Well...I guess I called it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25281625&postcount=4607

A hearty screw you to all the posters that posted snarky replies instead of discussing this :p
 
G

Gen X

Trust no one. Eat steaks.
Argyle said:
Well...I guess I called it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25281625&postcount=4607

A hearty screw you to all the posters that posted snarky replies instead of discussing this :p
Click to expand...

I went back and looked at some of the replies. I laughed at this one that quoted your post specifically.

rocK` said:
Why flood this thread with even more misinformation?

GAF, I am very disappoint in this thread. Bullshit on top of bullshit with a side order of analogies. Oh, don't forget the massive piracy derail.
Click to expand...
 
A

angelfly

Member
Gen X said:
I went back and looked at some of the replies. I laughed at this one that quoted your post specifically.
Click to expand...
His explanation of the way 360 detects modded consoles is wrong. I don't feel like typying it up but a quick google search will explain it.
 
A

Argyle

Member
angelfly said:
His explanation of the way 360 detects modded consoles is wrong. I don't feel like typying it up but a quick google search will explain it.
Click to expand...

I think the remote executable method is one method that I believe they use to detect modded consoles. It is not the method they use to detect hacked DVD drives, which is the most common 360 hack. Did you see my reply in that thread? You didn't respond to it...here it is again:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25288319&postcount=4681

Note that the poster I quoted in my previous post in this thread confirms that MS uses this method to detect JTAG'ed 360s.
 
G

Gen X

Trust no one. Eat steaks.
angelfly said:
His explanation of the way 360 detects modded consoles is wrong. I don't feel like typying it up but a quick google search will explain it.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but did anyone actually link to a source to prove otherwise because I didn't see any on that page. People were quick to flame and then run away with their tails between their legs.

:p
 
N

N.A

Banned
I tried the latest version of Mednafen yesterday. It has the nicest looking interface of all the emulators and compatibility and stability seems much improved since I last tried it. It was great to play the Bonk games again!

For those that don't know Mednafen PS3 currently supports:

* Nintendo Entertainment System
* Nintendo Game Boy
* Nintendo Game Boy Color
* Nintendo Game Boy Advance
* Nintendo Virtual Boy
* Atari Lynx
* Sega Master System
* Sega Game Gear
* Sega Mega Drive / Sega Genesis
* NEC PC-Engine (with CD)
* SNK NeoGeo Pocket Color
* Bandai WonderSwan Color

Whilst those emulators that are dedicated to one system are better, the PC-Engine and Master System emulation is pretty good.

My only complaint at the moment is that there is no aspect ratio or screen stretching options.
 
A

Argyle

Member
For those interested in the remote executable technique, the first time I ever heard about someone using this was back in 1999, when AOL started blocking MSN Messenger from signing onto the AOL Instant Messenger service. (Note that MS was on the receiving end of this one!)

In the end, MS gave up trying to allow MSN to sign onto AIM. (Eventually AOL allowed third parties to sign onto AIM since they lost clout as an ISP once everyone moved away from dial-up.)

As a parting shot, MS leaked to the press the technique that AOL was using against them, framing it as a security vulnerability in the AIM client. (Which in a way, it was, since AOL was apparently exploiting a bug in their client, it didn't seem like the client was architected to allow this check.)

More information here: http://www.geoffchappell.com/viewer.htm?doc=notes/security/aim/index.htm
 
MMaRsu

MMaRsu

Banned
Is there any way to transfer a pkg file with an ftp program to the Ps3 and run it from the internal hdd? Because I wanted to download the bulletstorm demo but it's 1.2 gb and my usb stick only has 1gb room :p.

I could download it on 360 though.
 
V

Vagabundo

Member
MMaRsu said:
Is there any way to transfer a pkg file with an ftp program to the Ps3 and run it from the internal hdd? Because I wanted to download the bulletstorm demo but it's 1.2 gb and my usb stick only has 1gb room :p.

I could download it on 360 though.
Click to expand...

There are FTP server for the PS3, so you'd need to run on of those and - I assume - the file managers out there will allow you to run signed pkgs from the hard drive.

Use the wiki above to install both programs and see how you fair...
 
MMaRsu

MMaRsu

Banned
Vagabundo said:
There are FTP server for the PS3, so you'd need to run on of those and - I assume - the file managers out there will allow you to run signed pkgs from the hard drive.

Use the wiki above to install both programs and see how you fair...
Click to expand...

I already have the ftp server and I'm able to install pkg files. I just thought they'd only read off usb.
 
N

N.A

Banned
MMaRsu said:
Is there any way to transfer a pkg file with an ftp program to the Ps3 and run it from the internal hdd? Because I wanted to download the bulletstorm demo but it's 1.2 gb and my usb stick only has 1gb room :p.

I could download it on 360 though.
Click to expand...

Use this:
http://www.ps3hax.net/showthread.php?t=13383#axzz1CKVnOtb4


There are FTP server for the PS3, so you'd need to run on of those and - I assume - the file managers out there will allow you to run signed pkgs from the hard drive.

Use the wiki above to install both programs and see how you fair...
Click to expand...

This won't work, the Install PKG option only looks on external drives.
 
J

Jal

Member
Rhindle said:
To the contrary, they really went to town on this one.

Apparently, another undocumented "feature" of this firmware is remote code execution on bootup. Meaning that Sony's servers can remotely take control of the PS3, push down new code and execute it.

That should help remove all those pesky unwanted features that may have found their way onto your machine, without you having to lift a finger.
Click to expand...

So when i accepted the ToS for PSN did i also agree to allow Sony to put code onto my machine?
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Rhindle said:
Apparently, another undocumented "feature" of this firmware is remote code execution on bootup. Meaning that Sony's servers can remotely take control of the PS3, push down new code and execute it.
Click to expand...

Interesting. One of the things they're pushing for geohot to be screwed over for is under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act for gaining illegal and unauthorised access to his own computer, and now they're installing a rootkit onto my PS3 that will give them access to my personal data not only on the PS3 but anything on my private network?

Seriously, Sony need to be told to fuck right off now. There's no way this is defensible, and there's no way it's legal in all markets they work in. Deceptively installing a trojan into a private network without permission? Fuck you, Sony. Fuck you.
 
Z

zaidr

Member
If one were to buy a PS3 slim these days, what firmware comes pre-installed? How far should one reasonably push it until purchasing a new PS3 and still be somwwhat certain that they don't have the 3.56 firmware pre-installed?
 
R

Razorskin

----- ------
zaidr said:
If one were to buy a PS3 slim these days, what firmware comes pre-installed? How far should one reasonably push it until purchasing a new PS3 and still be somwwhat certain that they don't have the 3.56 firmware pre-installed?
Click to expand...

My 160GB had 3.42 and I bought it 2 months ago.

It was a bundle with NHL 11 and Infamous.
 
N

Negaiido

Member
zaidr said:
If one were to buy a PS3 slim these days, what firmware comes pre-installed? How far should one reasonably push it until purchasing a new PS3 and still be somwwhat certain that they don't have the 3.56 firmware pre-installed?
Click to expand...

I doubt it will have 3.56 since that one only came out yesterday( or day before?). Shops don't sell out the others fast enough to get new ones.
 
N

N.A

Banned
zaidr said:
If one were to buy a PS3 slim these days, what firmware comes pre-installed? How far should one reasonably push it until purchasing a new PS3 and still be somwwhat certain that they don't have the 3.56 firmware pre-installed?
Click to expand...

If you want to be sure, get one in the next couple of weeks.

I seem to remember Sony instructed stores to upgrade their PS3's to 3.42 when the original jailbreak came out.
 
Z

zaidr

Member
N.A said:
If you want to be sure, get one in the next couple of weeks.

I seem to remember Sony instructed stores to upgrade their PS3's to 3.42 when the original jailbreak came out.
Click to expand...

Wow, so shops were opening PS3 boxes and upgrading firmwares in-store? I hope they sold them as open box...
 
N

Negaiido

Member
N.A said:
If you want to be sure, get one in the next couple of weeks.

I seem to remember Sony instructed stores to upgrade their PS3's to 3.42 when the original jailbreak came out.
Click to expand...

Do stores really open the box to upgrade the PS3? :S That would take hours for a big store.
 
Z

zaidr

Member
Razorskin said:
My 160GB had 3.42 and I bought it 2 months ago.

It was a bundle with NHL 11 and Infamous.
Click to expand...

Is there currently a bundle out these days, instead of the Move bundle. I'd love to try out Infamous, specially if its free :)
 
C

cedric69

Member
iapetus said:
Seriously, Sony need to be told to fuck right off now. There's no way this is defensible, and there's no way it's legal in all markets they work in. Deceptively installing a trojan into a private network without permission? Fuck you, Sony. Fuck you.
Click to expand...
Is there a way to know for sure that this firmware does what you think it does?
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
iapetus said:
Interesting. One of the things they're pushing for geohot to be screwed over for is under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act for gaining illegal and unauthorised access to his own computer, and now they're installing a rootkit onto my PS3 that will give them access to my personal data not only on the PS3 but anything on my private network?

Seriously, Sony need to be told to fuck right off now. There's no way this is defensible, and there's no way it's legal in all markets they work in. Deceptively installing a trojan into a private network without permission? Fuck you, Sony. Fuck you.
Click to expand...
If a rootkit will be installed (which all seem to be rumors for now as far as i know), i doubt that it will do much more than some simple checks to check for CFW. How does MS do it to detect hacked Xbox 360 consoles by the way?
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
cedric69 said:
Is there a way to know for sure that this firmware does what you think it does?
Click to expand...

Sure, compromise Sony's code and take a look at it. :D

Where did Rhindle get that information from?
 
C

Choc

Banned
so i have done a bit of research

first of all the terms of service appear to not mention any of this

second of all i can download the update from the us playstation site to put on usb without accepting terms of service

and as such i have not been exposed to anything saying we will take control of your box and execute stuff without you knowing

i'd say sony is treading an incredibly fine legal line here, if they haev not already gone over it

i believe in countries other than the US this would be illegal for them to do without telling the users its going to happen. MS does it, but i believe its in teh Live TOS
 
K

kitch9

Banned
Choc said:
so i have done a bit of research

first of all the terms of service appear to not mention any of this

second of all i can download the update from the us playstation site to put on usb without accepting terms of service

and as such i have not been exposed to anything saying we will take control of your box and execute stuff without you knowing

i'd say sony is treading an incredibly fine legal line here, if they haev not already gone over it

i believe in countries other than the US this would be illegal for them to do without telling the users its going to happen. MS does it, but i believe its in teh Live TOS
Click to expand...

Good luck with that.... You read PSN TOS?
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
Choc said:
second of all i can download the update from the us playstation site to put on usb without accepting terms of service
Click to expand...
True, but when you try to install the firmware, you will then be prompted with the EULA/ToS.
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Choc said:
i believe in countries other than the US this would be illegal for them to do without telling the users its going to happen. MS does it, but i believe its in teh Live TOS
Click to expand...

Even in the US it's pretty fucking dubious, by the same laws that they're going after geohot for.
 
P

-PXG-

Member
Reposting:

Alright, I installed CFW with Kmeaw. Homebrew is installed on the XMB, but I'm getting error 80029519. What do I do? I'm on a original, 60 GB phat.
 
C

Choc

Banned
i have read the psn tos

it covers that they will have things to protect the psn network not they will install shit remotely and leave a hack on your system to get in

my point is you can download 3.56 with these new 'features' and never read the tos before installing

that is a big problem for sony, a big problem if this goes legal


the last time sony installed a rootkit they almost got sued to oblivion. they were installing rootkits in windows registry with music cds put into a computer

appears they never learn from their mistakes and they have rootkitted again and they will again cop major backlash from security providers

if they have installed a trojan on ps3s, and your data is on that ps3, hackers can now gain it if they can hack it

and lets be honest if sony cant keep a system secure, what good are they at building a secure 'backdoor'

this could go big.
 
N

N.A

Banned
***Official Firmware 3.56 released. DO NOT update***



Recent Updates:
27/01: Mednafen 1-27-2011 released.
27/01: multiMAN 1.14.01 released. (Now stable)
26/01: Gaia Manager 2.06 released. (Now stable)
26/01: FBAnext r423 Custom released.
26/01: PS3 Game Updater 1.1 Released
23/01: Backup Compatibility List added. (see below for how to contribute)

Tutorials:
How to install Custom Firmware
How to install Homebrew
Backup Guide

If you would like to contribute to the Backup Compatibility List follow these instructions.
 
C

Choc

Banned
test_account said:
True, but when you try to install the firmware, you will then be prompted with the EULA/ToS.
Click to expand...

i dont believe this is the case to be honest, but i coudl be wrong

on the AU and UK ps sites you are forced to accept a TOS before downloading FW PUP files
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
iapetus said:
Interesting. One of the things they're pushing for geohot to be screwed over for is under the Computer Fraud and Abuse act for gaining illegal and unauthorised access to his own computer, and now they're installing a rootkit onto my PS3 that will give them access to my personal data not only on the PS3 but anything on my private network?

Seriously, Sony need to be told to fuck right off now. There's no way this is defensible, and there's no way it's legal in all markets they work in. Deceptively installing a trojan into a private network without permission? Fuck you, Sony. Fuck you.
Click to expand...
Talk about jumping into conclusions. Best if you shut down auto-updates on ur PC and AV/FW.

I fully support this move.


And for the record, they already have access to your personal data, it's on their PSN database...
 
V

Vagabundo

Member
Looks like Sony is going to play dirty. Things might get a lot messier before they settle.

Running unauthorised code without my consent is pretty bad. I's guess that they'll ask when signing in to PSN if they can run this "check".

I can imagine some dick running a DNS poison attack and running his own "signed" code.


Metalmurphy said:
Talk about jumping into conclusions. Best if you shut down auto-updates on ur PC and AV/FW.

I fully support this move.


And for the record, they already have access to your personal data, it's on their PSN database...
Click to expand...


Do you have access to the websites he's visited on the PS3 browser? Access to the files on that USB drive he has attached to the PS3, because with this update Sony can. EU privacy laws might bite them in the ass.
 
C

Choc

Banned
Metalmurphy said:
And for the record, they already have access to your personal data, it's on their PSN database...
Click to expand...

yes but hackers who could get into systems remotely if a rootkit/trojan is there do not.......

and before you say well what would be on your system. try psn login and passwords if people save the password.


once you have that you have psn access and credit card access. bingo
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Metalmurphy said:
Talk about jumping into conclusions. Best if you shut down auto-updates on ur PC and AV/FW.
Click to expand...

I don't have auto-updates on my PC, thanks - I get a full list of what's being updated and get to pick and choose from it. I generally take everything, but not if it looks likely to cause problems with work I'm doing at the moment (new versions of server software, for example). I'd have to enable auto-update explicitly if I wanted to use it, and it wouldn't be added arbitrarily as a hidden feature by my OS provider.

My OS provider also doesn't have a history of illegal rootkits and isn't suing anyone for hacking into their own computer, which makes things slightly different.

The only conclusion I've jumped to is that Rhindle's description of the firmware update was accurate. Everything else is perfectly logical from that point on.
 
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