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LINCOLN |OT| (dir. Spielberg; Daniel Day-Lewis)
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
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Synth_floyd
Banned
I saw it about a week ago. It was interesting but pretty dry. Almost like a docudrama. I think it would've worked better as a mini series on TV than as a movie in a theater but I was entertained. Though the way they portrayed Stephens made it seem like he was just in it for the pussy.
what made him reconsider?
dehydratedbabies
Member
rather prophetic. Lincoln did dream that he would be assassinated
Best Motion Picture of the Year
Best Performance by an Actor in a Leading Role (Daniel Day-Lewis)
Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role (Tommy Lee Jones)
Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role (Sally Field)
Best Achievement in Directing (Steven Spielberg)
Best Writing, Screenplay Based on Material Previously Produced or Published (Tony Kushner)
Best Achievement in Cinematography (Janusz Kaminski)
Best Achievement in Editing (Michael Kahn)
Best Achievement in Production Design (Rick Carter, Jim Erickson)
Best Achievement in Costume Design (Joanna Johnston)
Best Achievement in Music Written for Motion Pictures, Original Score (John Williams)
Best Achievement in Sound Mixing
Best Performance by an Actor in a Leading Role (Daniel Day-Lewis)
Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role (Tommy Lee Jones)
Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role (Sally Field)
Best Achievement in Directing (Steven Spielberg)
Best Writing, Screenplay Based on Material Previously Produced or Published (Tony Kushner)
Best Achievement in Cinematography (Janusz Kaminski)
Best Achievement in Editing (Michael Kahn)
Best Achievement in Production Design (Rick Carter, Jim Erickson)
Best Achievement in Costume Design (Joanna Johnston)
Best Achievement in Music Written for Motion Pictures, Original Score (John Williams)
Best Achievement in Sound Mixing
el retorno
Member
Just saw this... loved it. Big political junkie so 1800 west wing was awesome.
Did TLJ's guy in real life have a black lover?
Did TLJ's guy in real life have a black lover?
I thought the component parts of the film were better than the whole. I hope Daniel Day Lewis and Tommy Lee Jones both win oscars for their performances. They were the true standouts in the film. I thought Sallie Fields was a little too much, a little too showy though that may be forgiven seeing as how Mary Lincoln was supposed to be.
There was nothing amazing about the cinematography so that should go to Deakins. The script is good though so I wouldn't mind a Kuschner win.
There was nothing amazing about the cinematography so that should go to Deakins. The script is good though so I wouldn't mind a Kuschner win.
I want to see this version. Given the knowledge of our own history most Americans possess this probably would have been a good idea for the domestic release as well.
20 min behind the scenes
http://trailers.apple.com/movies/dreamworks/lincoln/lincoln-20min_h720p.mov
Very nice look.
http://trailers.apple.com/movies/dreamworks/lincoln/lincoln-20min_h720p.mov
Very nice look.
I watched it in my endeavor to watch every oscar nominated film.
I thought the acting was great, a lot really good actors and DDL was wonderful and he is very deserving for an oscar. Tommy Lee Jones was great as well but i think there are better supporting actors this year (christopher waltz, leonardio dicaprio and SLJ from django i found all three better).
However the movie itself i found it to be a little bit boring, this might have to do with the fact that im not american and do not really know the history very well, it was entertaining but its not really a movie i would rewatch.
I also watched argo, which was also a disappointment to me versus afflecks previous movie 'the town' which is really one of my favorite movies.
Zero dark thirty was only interesting for about half an hour (last scene).
Silver Linings Playbook and Django are my favorites for best movie now (still have to watch life of pi, amour and beast of the southern wild though).
I thought the acting was great, a lot really good actors and DDL was wonderful and he is very deserving for an oscar. Tommy Lee Jones was great as well but i think there are better supporting actors this year (christopher waltz, leonardio dicaprio and SLJ from django i found all three better).
However the movie itself i found it to be a little bit boring, this might have to do with the fact that im not american and do not really know the history very well, it was entertaining but its not really a movie i would rewatch.
I also watched argo, which was also a disappointment to me versus afflecks previous movie 'the town' which is really one of my favorite movies.
Zero dark thirty was only interesting for about half an hour (last scene).
Silver Linings Playbook and Django are my favorites for best movie now (still have to watch life of pi, amour and beast of the southern wild though).
Mr. Luchador
Member
Watched it today and found it very boring. I know the source material may not naturally make for some of the most exciting cinema experience, but it was just really flat.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
One week till I see this bitch. FAP FAP FAP.
It wasn't as entertaining as the best episodes from the West Wing. It's not as snappy or black and white as that show, but then this is history and I guess it has to have more gravitas and compromise.
I was a bit distracted by the familiar faces on screen though, so many actors I can recognize from TV and but not quite name. It was especially to funny see Walton Goggins, I'm watching him in the Shield, Justified and have just seen him in Django, so based on those characters I was almost surprised he voted
I was a bit distracted by the familiar faces on screen though, so many actors I can recognize from TV and but not quite name. It was especially to funny see Walton Goggins, I'm watching him in the Shield, Justified and have just seen him in Django, so based on those characters I was almost surprised he voted
yay
Freewheelin'
Member
Saw it tonight.
First things first, I am a huge fan of Spielberg and Day-Lewis. I was so excited to hear that they'd be working together for this film.
Daniel Day-Lewis is magnificent as always; he is really restrained here, pulling off a quiet, thoughtful performance. He made me believe he was Lincoln.
Spielberg's direction is fine, I liked the way he moved the camera across the rooms when people were talking. Nothing really outstanding though.
Also thought that it was going to end when
So yeah, DDL should be on lockdown for an Oscar this year, it's definitely his.
But I wonder if it would have been better as a 12 hour mini-series rather than a film.
First things first, I am a huge fan of Spielberg and Day-Lewis. I was so excited to hear that they'd be working together for this film.
Daniel Day-Lewis is magnificent as always; he is really restrained here, pulling off a quiet, thoughtful performance. He made me believe he was Lincoln.
Spielberg's direction is fine, I liked the way he moved the camera across the rooms when people were talking. Nothing really outstanding though.
Also thought that it was going to end when
he walks out of the White House. That was disappointing
So yeah, DDL should be on lockdown for an Oscar this year, it's definitely his.
But I wonder if it would have been better as a 12 hour mini-series rather than a film.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Saw it tonight.
First things first, I am a huge fan of Spielberg and Day-Lewis. I was so excited to hear that they'd be working together for this film.
Daniel Day-Lewis is magnificent as always; he is really restrained here, pulling off a quiet, thoughtful performance. He made me believe he was Lincoln.
Spielberg's direction is fine, I liked the way he moved the camera across the rooms when people were talking. Nothing really outstanding though.
Also thought that it was going to end whenhe walks out of the White House. That was disappointing
So yeah, DDL should be on lockdown for an Oscar this year, it's definitely his.
But I wonder if it would have been better as a 12 hour mini-series rather than a film.
I think the script was a let down, but DDL was godly as always.
Opening scene set the tone and made me feel like I was about to watch something special, but I don't think I cared for Spielberg's direction, and Tommy Lee Jones bothered me to no end.
I would have been fine if it either ended as he left for the opera, or if they followed through his assassination on film.
Just bizarre choices made all over the place.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Pretty much. In a film where so much happened, nothing actually happened.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
9.5 hours till I see this sucker.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Watching this film, I realised that I was witnessing the first Spielberg film in which the man seemed utterly absent from the film. Sure he shepherded the film for the better half of a decade - and there are those hallmark moments that flag John Williams down as if he weren't sure where the film's emotional runway was, but this film is entirely Kushner's script and those exceedingly talented props that walk and talk through his eloquent words. The voice of Spielberg's camera - normally navigating audiences through the (sometimes-not-so) subtleties of his narratives by way of an unbound knack for visual storytelling, is chained to the deftness and denseness of Kushner's screenplay. And that's okay, because Kushner's script is a good one - a very good one, and though I would have liked to have felt more of Spielberg's presence, what we're left with is a perfectly good film headlined by a great performance. An enduring performance. Daniel Day Lewis' face will now and for a long time be conjured in people's minds at the mention of Lincoln. He plays the top hat with powerful restraint. Never does it feel as though he's bringing the monument of Lincoln to life, so much as acquainting us with the man quiet man himself.
So I enjoyed the film. It's good Spielberg, but it certainly isn't great Spielberg. Spielberg has always said he's always thinking about his audience when making his films, and this feels like he actually sat down in the theatre and became a passive observer with us - where (especially in those last ten minutes of the film), it might have been better had he stood up and reigned it in. It was missing the boldness and daring that makes a great Spielberg film, but I accept the subject of Lincoln has always been something of an indulgence for the man.
So I enjoyed the film. It's good Spielberg, but it certainly isn't great Spielberg. Spielberg has always said he's always thinking about his audience when making his films, and this feels like he actually sat down in the theatre and became a passive observer with us - where (especially in those last ten minutes of the film), it might have been better had he stood up and reigned it in. It was missing the boldness and daring that makes a great Spielberg film, but I accept the subject of Lincoln has always been something of an indulgence for the man.
Really good. DDL is insanely good; it becomes almost tedious to say he's going to get an Oscar (and indeed it must be tedious for those that didnt like the film hearing time and time again that he's going to get one), but he genuinely deserves it. As a piece of performance art, you can't see anything topping it. He's mesmerising, so much so you watch him while others are talking.
TLJ was really good, loved seeing David Costabile and John Hawkes, Jared Harris, James Spader and Jackie Earle Haley also very strong in small roles. David Straitharn should probably get more praise than he has done so far as well.
JGL is a non entity, Field is legitimately poor and I could have done with her not featuring at all and Lincoln's marriage being redacted from history. Fuck Sally Field.
Tense, engrossing, I quickly picked up American politics terms I didn't really understand before, looks great, had some great wigs and beards. 8/10
TLJ was really good, loved seeing David Costabile and John Hawkes, Jared Harris, James Spader and Jackie Earle Haley also very strong in small roles. David Straitharn should probably get more praise than he has done so far as well.
JGL is a non entity, Field is legitimately poor and I could have done with her not featuring at all and Lincoln's marriage being redacted from history. Fuck Sally Field.
Tense, engrossing, I quickly picked up American politics terms I didn't really understand before, looks great, had some great wigs and beards. 8/10
ElectricBlue187
Member
I watched this one last night and came away decidedly unimpressed. Daniel Day Lewis was amazing like usual but he was playing a one dimensional character that took no attempt at any point to show him as the flawed human being that he really was. Instead he's the infinitely laudable Christlike figure "clothed in immense power" we were brought up believing in and it glossed over the less digestible aspects (to modern eyes) of his character by basically not mentioning them. The movie was safe and, at times, unbearably sentimental. The political stuff is somehow more interesting in House of Cards than it was here, i think the problem is there was no suspense as Spielberg obviously wasn't going to pull a Tarantino and rewrite history to make this movie interesting.
RustyNails
Member
The movie focused on the last 4 months of his life. Whatever negative opinions and south-appeasement views he had were gone by then.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Not just that but when the movie did mention his autocratic use of power it just glossed over it by saying it was obviously nessesary and the only people complaining were southern sympathizers and slavery lovers whose opinion was meaningless.
It also just acted like his ideas on recolonization and the burning of the south just didn't exist or weren't relavant in service of painting him as this incredible figure who could do no wrong. I understand that he did great things but come on, the scenes where he's talking to black servants and soliders were just eye rollingly awful
As RustyNails stated, he had long abandoned those ideas by the time period in which the movie takes place, so I don't think it's a fair critique to ding the movie for not mentioning them. If the movie portrayed the entirety of Lincoln's political life and failed to account for his evolving political views toward blacks and the issue of slavery, or his shall we say liberal use of executive power during the war, then that would be a serious failing, but it doesn't, and it therefore isn't.
The movie no doubt paints an admiring portrait of Lincoln, but that is largely because what he was trying to accomplish during that time, to pass a constitutional amendment forever abolishing slavery, was admirable. Also, it's not like the movie shies away from the less desirable aspects of the means by which he undertook that endeavor, with Lincoln literally trading government jobs for votes. Finally, it should be noted that the movie does make clear that the more radical abolitionists were distrusting of him and felt he had moved far too slowly on the slavery issue.
I think the movie provided a much better portrait of Lincoln during that period of the war than you suggest. It clearly shows that he is not the most progressive politician or even most progressive person in D.C. The "radical abolitionists" distrust him and the right wing of his party thinks he goes to far to the left. This is clearly illustrated in the movie along with his famous "patience" which just pissed off any number of people. His suspension of habeas corpus and the closing of newspapers is also mentioned, passingly, but still present.
In the scene where he talks Elizabeth Keckley Lincoln admits he really doesn't know any African Americans or have any special insight into their wants or desires beyond freedom. The 2nd scene in the movie where Lincoln talks awkwardly to the two black soldiers, trying to joke while one of the soldiers is being dead serious, is a play on the numerous instances in Lincoln's presidency where he didn't know how to interact with African Americans and ended up making a bit of a fool of himself.
The movie clearly makes the argument in favor of Lincoln as a great president but it doesn't do so without providing opposing details and historical context.
Reality bites, sometimes.
Its a historically accurate quote. What's the point of denying history especially when its true and relevant to that moment?
Tallshortman
Member
His ideas of recolonization were long gone by that time. Also as a life long resident of the south I don't know how the burning of southern material means is going to be very controversial given that many of those burnings are very well known facts among the general public and not just among historians.
ElectricBlue187
Member
While I suppose one must credit the movie for even bringing it up, consider what context it was brought up in. A pro-slavery demagogue democrat ranting wildly in congress is the only person in the movie who brings up Lincoln's autocratic use of power and then he is immediately shouted down as only caring about this issue for political reasons. Basically inferring that the issue didn't matter at all and only the 'bad guys' cared about it.
That's simply untrue. Lincoln always had a strong interest in the idea of recolonization in Libera and central america that went up until the failed Chiriqui colonization project in the early 1860s at which point he began to believe the idea might be unrealistic. His cabinet worked on the idea for a long time in his first administration and Lincoln himself was very much involved...
this happened right before the events of the movie (the events of which cover the 13th amendment first introduced in 1863)
http://www.mrlincolnandfreedom.org/inside.asp?ID=34&subjectID=3
He perhaps was never a fervent believer in the idea like many of his contemporaries but to not even bring it up in the movie was just more of the gross mythologizing we have too much of already when discussing Lincoln. They even had a perfect opportunity to go into this when the democrat(?) legislator was talking about hating slavery but being against the amendment because he didn't know what impact free slaves would have on the country.
I'm not sure what you're saying in the second part there, just because people know that much of the south was burned down at the end of the war does not make it unnecessary to include. Many people also know that he was shot while watching a play and that he signed the emancipation proclamation but both of those details were deemed important enough to include. Again, this is just more of an attempt to only portray the positive aspects of Lincoln's life and downplaying the bad which there is too much of in Lincoln's historical portrayals.
This is also simply not true. In the scene where Lincoln talks to his cabinet about his decision to pursue the 13th amendment Lincoln himself talks about his own choice to ignore court rulings and the tenuous, undefined nature of his "war powers" which he admits he granted to himself and may not exist at all. Lincoln then gets in a bit of a back and forth about his use of power with one of his own cabinet members, a republican. So the movie clearly shows that people besides the "bad guys" care about it and that Lincoln struggled with it but ultimately felt he was right in his actions.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
I just finished the Team of Rival book, then decided to watch Lincoln. I didn't know the movie was based on the book. The book did not spend much time on the 13th amendment. The movie was good, they really nailed 1865 DC and DDL did a great job. The cast overall was very well done, I even loved that freaky guy that played Rorschach. I think they should have made the movie about the Emancipation Proclamation and the original cabinet with Chase and Blair. They could have covered more years and spent less time on the House and the deals needed for the 13th. Basically, they chose the very end of the book, the less interesting part to make a movie about. Most of the interesting bit was from 1861-1863, from Sumter to Gettysburg.
So if anyone is interested, grab the book. Far more details and it covers the whole life of Lincoln. Next up, Grant's autobiography.
So if anyone is interested, grab the book. Far more details and it covers the whole life of Lincoln. Next up, Grant's autobiography.
I don't know what to make of it, I was feeling oddly unaffected by the end. Such sweeping changes for both African Americans and the South, but I felt like their stake in it was employed as backdrop (at best). There were scenes that felt to me perfect (lincoln reminiscing by the radio operator, the bells, etc), but most of the movie left me feeling that only the surface had been skimmed. It almost felt stifled by the overwhelming deference to the political process, such that it lost much of its heart and personal impact. Much like a trial reenactment, it was a fascinating piece but not really something that I feel may stick with me.
I finally saw it last night as well... first couple hours were really good but once the Amendment passed it should have wrapped up a lot faster than it did.
Really no reason to show the assassination in such a half-ass way when that's not what the movie was about.
I'd reedit it:
Petersburg --> shortened surrender scene (this could have happened in 20 seconds) --> Lincoln talking with this wife on the way back. Then cut to present day and show a class of kids (of all races) visiting the Lincoln Memorial and then flashback to the 2nd inauguration as the ending.
Really no reason to show the assassination in such a half-ass way when that's not what the movie was about.
I'd reedit it:
Petersburg --> shortened surrender scene (this could have happened in 20 seconds) --> Lincoln talking with this wife on the way back. Then cut to present day and show a class of kids (of all races) visiting the Lincoln Memorial and then flashback to the 2nd inauguration as the ending.
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