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Metal Gear Solid V (PS3/360/PS4/XBO/Maybe PC) - Extended 9 minute E3 trailer

Some of you are reading way too much into this. There's no way that Punished Snake is not Big Boss. Come on guys; Kojima is crazy, but not senile.

I guess it's par for the course though, when a new Metal Gear is announced. Remember when MGS3 was first unveiled ? Even though it was blatantly obvious that Big Boss was the playable character considering the game took place in the 60s, people were concocting all sorts of crazy theories, such as Solid Snake being inside a giant VR simulation, Assassin's Creed-style, and others going as far as saying that time-travel was involved. Sigh.

The game's story won't be as batshit insane as some make it out to be.
 

Erigu

Member
Some of you are reading way too much into this. There's no way that Punished Snake is not Big Boss. Come on guys; Kojima is crazy, but not senile.
I guess it's par for the course though, when a new Metal Gear is announced. Remember when MGS3 was first unveiled ? Even though it was blatantly obvious that Big Boss was the playable character considering the game took place in the 60s, people were concocting all sorts of crazy theories, such as Solid Snake being inside a giant VR simulation, Assassin's Creed-style, and others going as far as saying that time-travel was involved.
I thought those theories were absurd. Punished Snake not being Big Boss is another matter altogether though.
 

Tookay

Member
Some of you are reading way too much into this. There's no way that Punished Snake is not Big Boss. Come on guys; Kojima is crazy, but not senile.

I guess it's par for the course though, when a new Metal Gear is announced. Remember when MGS3 was first unveiled ? Even though it was blatantly obvious that Big Boss was the playable character considering the game took place in the 60s, people were concocting all sorts of crazy theories, such as Solid Snake being inside a giant VR simulation, Assassin's Creed-style, and others going as far as saying that time-travel was involved. Sigh.

The game's story won't be as batshit insane as some make it out to be.

Yeah I remember that with MGS3. Then when Kojima played it straight, it seemed like that kind of theorizing died down for a while (although I remember a couple "Old Snake isn't really Solid Snake!" theories too).
 
Has anybody answered why Ocelot looks HELL OF A LOT older than Big Boss?

Weird right? Snake is supposedly 9 years older than Ocelot, but you gotta consider what a stressful life will do to the body. Ocelot was probably all stressed out for 9 years while Snake was relaxing in his coma, living care free. Either that or "nanomachines, son".
 
It's the white hair. Otherwise, he doesn't look that old.

I agree. He doesn't have any wrinkles like Big Boss.

ocelot.jpg
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
Either way that ain't Big Boss. Look how Ocelot was sort of bossing him at the beginning of the presentation video. Clearly it has to be someone else.

Another clone? That would be cringe worthy.

Probably someone wearing a mask, sort of like the young snake in mgs4 trailer. There is definitely some misdirection, we never even see snakes face/mouth in the few instances that he says anything in the trailer.
 

kotor22

Member
I just realized or I think I realized anyways, is this basically the first MGS game where soldiers/guards out in the game have actual faces rather than being masked? Or am I forgetting another MGS entry where every soldier didn't have a mask on of some sort?
 

SJRB

Gold Member
I just realized or I think I realized anyways, is this basically the first MGS game where soldiers/guards out in the game have actual faces rather than being masked? Or am I forgetting another MGS entry where every soldier didn't have a mask on of some sort?

Enemy soldiers have always had masks of some sort. Saves a ton of resources, just recycle the same character over and over. I'm glad that's over.
 
Some of you are reading way too much into this. There's no way that Punished Snake is not Big Boss. Come on guys; Kojima is crazy, but not senile.

I guess it's par for the course though, when a new Metal Gear is announced. Remember when MGS3 was first unveiled ? Even though it was blatantly obvious that Big Boss was the playable character considering the game took place in the 60s, people were concocting all sorts of crazy theories, such as Solid Snake being inside a giant VR simulation, Assassin's Creed-style, and others going as far as saying that time-travel was involved. Sigh.

The game's story won't be as batshit insane as some make it out to be.
This is pretty much my take on it. Things are going to get weird with the time skip, horn, prosthetic limb, Psycho Mantis, and whatever else. But I don't think there's anything to be deduced from what we've seen of Big Boss in the trailers, it'll be him.
 
So do any of the Gray Fox theories have any basis at all? Are people bringing up Gray Fox because something in the trailer suggests Gray Fox, or do people just really like Gray Fox and are looking for ways to make the evidence fit the inference they've already decided on? Because, I have to say, seems like some Grade A bullshit to me. It seems like the current theory is that GF goes under the knife to have his face changed to be an exact copy of Big Boss, including having his eye gouged out, his arm cut off, and I guess his vocal cords modified? All because Big Boss needs a body double, for... what reason, exactly?

Also, are we to believe that Gray Fox has all these procedures reversed, his eye popped back in and his arm reattached, in time for his appearance in MG1? Or is that Gray Fox just another dude who's had plastic surgery to look like the original Gray Fox? And who has to fill in for that guy?

Oh, and why would Gray Fox grow a ponytail to impersonate a man who never had a ponytail? That's some Tex Murphy shit. Was he willing to get his arm cut off for this totally-unexplained cause, but he drew the line at his ponytail?

I'd honestly like to know if I'm missing any hard evidence, or even any vague hint. that the Big Boss in Afghanistan is not the same one in Ground Zeroes, and how Gray Fox relates to anything.
 

kotor22

Member
Also, another thing I just noticed while poking around the web here; so we didn't see the entire demo of MGS: Ground Zeroes I take it? One of the articles that came out of it describes this in particular

'The demo ends Snake is seen negotiating with the scarred man for the release of Peace Walker’s Chico, who is the boy in the cage.'

Which I don't remember ever seeing . . . and I'm sure someone else described more of it out there? I just can't remember which outlet it was. Unless I totally missed a part in the trailers or something (might be the case)

From here
 

Erigu

Member
So do any of the Gray Fox theories have any basis at all?
Not really. A CG test and a picture from a motion capture might be hinting at Gray Fox being in the game (and it would make sense for him to be around, timeline-wise), but the picture is that of a man holding what looks like a sword, i.e. classic Cyborg Ninja/Null stuff. The connection to Punished Snake is a bit of a stretch, at this point.

I'd honestly like to know if I'm missing any hard evidence, or even any vague hint. that the Big Boss in Afghanistan is not the same one in Ground Zeroes
That, on the other hand...

1) In the scene where Big Boss is said to be in a coma, Kaz's "what about him?" hints at a third (unseen) wounded man being present.
2) We're seeing that scene from the third man's point of view. And when Punished Snake then wakes up (nine years later, apparently), we're seeing things from his perspective. Third man = Punished Snake?
3) Punished Snake has a piece of shrapnel in his skull. It's already there when the hospital is under attack (you can see it under the bandage). There's no piece of shrapnel in Big Boss's skull when he falls into a coma.
4) Punished Snake somehow still has his head bandaged after nine years of coma. Maybe that's from a wound sustained during the attack of the hospital (and that may also explain the sudden piece of shrapnel, but would the staff really have the time to deal with something like that in those circumstances?). Maybe that's from some other, recent procedure.
5) When the hospital is under attack, Punished Snake is helped by a mysterious man who calls himself "Ishmael". "Ishmael"' seems to have the same voice as Punished Snake (Kiefer Sutherland), his face is completely hidden by a bandage, he says at one point "I" but immediately corrects to "we", he points to Punished Snake when he's asked who he is, and he doesn't seem willing to offer much needed physical help. A theory is that "Ishmael" is a figment of Punished Snake's imagination. Could be because of that piece of shrapnel, could be because of that Psycho Mantis-looking boy, could be because Punished Snake has identity issues.
6) Kojima might be trying to reference Metal Gear Solid's Fox Hound members once again (after the BB Corps in Metal Gear Solid 4). Eli most likely is Liquid Snake. Ocelot obviously is Revolver Ocelot. Quiet is a female sniper like Sniper Wolf. Code Talker seems to be a native American shaman like Vulcan Raven. The floating boy with the gasmask might be a younger Psycho Mantis. All that's left is Decoy Octopus. Maybe Skull Face is filling that spot. Maybe Punished Snake is a Big Boss decoy.
 
I think most, if not all, of the guards in Camp Omega look the same. I guess there'll be other different faces throughout each country. In PW, Big Boss comments that all the guards look the same.
 
Some of you are reading way too much into this. There's no way that Punished Snake is not Big Boss. Come on guys; Kojima is crazy, but not senile.

I guess it's par for the course though, when a new Metal Gear is announced. Remember when MGS3 was first unveiled ? Even though it was blatantly obvious that Big Boss was the playable character considering the game took place in the 60s, people were concocting all sorts of crazy theories, such as Solid Snake being inside a giant VR simulation, Assassin's Creed-style, and others going as far as saying that time-travel was involved. Sigh.

The game's story won't be as batshit insane as some make it out to be.

I always wanted t hat to be the case, SS playing through BBs first mission in VR. It would have fit. Still, MGS3 is the best inthe series, so no complaints.
 

Maddocks

Member
I love all the speculation. but I think all the game will be is just showing the downfall and rise of big boss. No vr, no clones, just one man fighting to live.

game doesn't need tricks or shamalong ding dong twists.
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
I agree. I don't even know what happened after MGS1 but his voice was the clearest and most profound in this game.

I don't know if you play all the games you'll notice the gradual changes in the way he does the voice. In MGS1 Snake is very clear and their is less emphasis on ending every sentence with an "arrrrrrr" sound. Starting in MGS2 you can hear him do the whole "arrr" and growliness more. Now understandably in MGS3 he wanted to differentiate Big Boss from Snake which of course results in more gravelness in the voice. Then comes MGS4 where he is a sick, dying, old Snake and he can barely put together a coherent sentence. However, at least that was understandable from a story standpoint.

To me his worst performance was in Peace Walker, I honestly could not take him seriously. His voice sounded like a downright impersonation of the Snake voice, thus every word seemed to end with an "arrrr" to an overemphasized point.

However, to me the problem lies with the VO director. It is the director's job to tell the voice actor what they are looking for and what is good, someone should have said "No, less gravelness and more like MGS1, tone it way down." Since nobody did this we got the performances we did.
 
I think one of his best performances was in PW, where he sounds more worn-down and it shows his evolving character - didn't sound like Snake to me at all. It felt more lively through his dialogue and I could easily tell when he was excited or when he didn't give a crap about a conversation.

Maybe this has nothing to do with a quality of his voice (maybe it was crap lol) but just the dialogue and stuff.
 
I just realized or I think I realized anyways, is this basically the first MGS game where soldiers/guards out in the game have actual faces rather than being masked? Or am I forgetting another MGS entry where every soldier didn't have a mask on of some sort?

110213035829.JPG


Peace Walker had a quite a few guard variations without masks.
 

Yawnier

Banned
So do any of the Gray Fox theories have any basis at all? Are people bringing up Gray Fox because something in the trailer suggests Gray Fox, or do people just really like Gray Fox and are looking for ways to make the evidence fit the inference they've already decided on? Because, I have to say, seems like some Grade A bullshit to me. It seems like the current theory is that GF goes under the knife to have his face changed to be an exact copy of Big Boss, including having his eye gouged out, his arm cut off, and I guess his vocal cords modified? All because Big Boss needs a body double, for... what reason, exactly?

Also, are we to believe that Gray Fox has all these procedures reversed, his eye popped back in and his arm reattached, in time for his appearance in MG1? Or is that Gray Fox just another dude who's had plastic surgery to look like the original Gray Fox? And who has to fill in for that guy?

Oh, and why would Gray Fox grow a ponytail to impersonate a man who never had a ponytail? That's some Tex Murphy shit. Was he willing to get his arm cut off for this totally-unexplained cause, but he drew the line at his ponytail?

I'd honestly like to know if I'm missing any hard evidence, or even any vague hint. that the Big Boss in Afghanistan is not the same one in Ground Zeroes, and how Gray Fox relates to anything.

I think a lot if has to do with some people liking Gray Fox a lot and they want to see him one way or another in MGSV so then some people try to make up crazy-ass theories like the one you mentioned - I would also say he is one of the most popular Metal Gear characters (look at all the gaffers with avatars of his MGS1 appearance) yet he is only in small number of MGS games.
 

Erigu

Member
I always wanted t hat to be the case, SS playing through BBs first mission in VR. It would have fit.
The trailers showed how much Snake trusted the Boss and felt betrayed because of her defection. How would that fit with Solid Snake? Can you really imagine him simply acting / pretending?
 

MasterRain

Neo Member
I think a lot if has to do with some people liking Gray Fox a lot and they want to see him one way or another in MGSV so then some people try to make up crazy-ass theories like the one you mentioned - I would also say he is one of the most popular Metal Gear characters (look at all the gaffers with avatars of his MGS1 appearance) yet he is only in small number of MGS games.

Because cyber ninjas with high frequency blades are bad-ass.

I really love the trailer. Does a great job of showing gameplay, story and still teasing loads. I love the look of the characters, they look so different and unique! I don't know about the female sniper though, MGS tends to get sexy and creepy confused...

I just bought the HD collection, looking forward to playing Peace Walker for the first time to get me even more hype for this game!
 
I watched the red band trailer several times today. Man, the first two-and-a-half minutes with the song over Miller's speech grabs me by the heart. Dem feels. I'm sure the game will be more serious and less cheezy than it's predecessors.

I want this game.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
I watched the red band trailer several times today. Man, the first two-and-a-half minutes with the song over Miller's speech grabs me by the heart. Dem feels. I'm sure the game will be more serious and less cheezy than it's predecessors.

I want this game.
I think that entire section sounds overacted/dramatic with the pause breaks. Not a fan of the dialogue either, but that's to be expected.
 
3) Punished Snake has a piece of shrapnel in his skull. It's already there when the hospital is under attack (you can see it under the bandage). There's no piece of shrapnel in Big Boss's skull when he falls into a coma.as

It all seems to hinge on this. But Big Boss does have a noticeable wound in that exact part of his forehead when he goes into the coma, so what's a more likely explanation?
1. It's a totally different guy who had plastic surgery to become Big Boss' exact clone, only for some reason he has a horn and a ponytail that Big Boss never had
2. The horn grew while Big Boss was in a coma

That horn looks like very crystalline in nature, and growing a crystal is as easy as hanging a paperclip in a glass of sugary water. Just think of the piece of shrapnel as the paperclip and BB's cerebrospinal fluid as the sugarwater.

OK, so I've never heard of crystals growing in human bodies either, but at least it's an explanation with some basis in fact, that doesn't raise ten more questions. I'll happily eat crow if any of this fake BB stuff turns out to be true, but right now there's just no evidence to support any followup questions about it.
 
I love the fake Punished Snake theory and have proposed it before.

My twist on the theory: Hayter will voice Snake in Ground Zeroes. Sutherland will voice fake Big Boss in Phantom Pain.

Believe!
 

Epcott

Member
I think Hayter may play SS at the end of PP reading some old archives about the life of BB in his cottage a month before he dies... which would make MGS3, PW, MGSV more of a narrative being read.

I'm interested in how they handle Gray Fox, and if MGS:pO (and his role in it) is in fact cannon.

There's something bothering me about BB and his appearance in MGS4. In PP, he has a prosthetic arm. In MGS4 he doesn't. Now its said BB was reconstructed by parts from both Sears and Liquid... that expains the missing arm, but why is he still wearing an eye patch? They were able to replace his arm, but not his eye?
 

Angry Fork

Member
Still reeling and upset that Hayter isn't the voice I hear in the trailer. He should be the one saying the lines. It feels like a completely different character now.

If he's not in the game somehow as Solid Snake or something I'm just going to play with Japanese voices. I refuse to hear a different American pretending to be Snake, it takes me out of it way too much. Has Ocelot's or Emmerich's voice actors changed too? I'm not sure.
 

Goon Boon

Banned
Still reeling and upset that Hayter isn't the voice I hear in the trailer. He should be the one saying the lines. It feels like a completely different character now.

If he's not in the game somehow as Solid Snake or something I'm just going to play with Japanese voices. I refuse to hear a different American pretending to be Snake, it takes me out of it way too much. Has Ocelot's or Emmerich's voice actors changed too? I'm not sure.

It's simply incredibly stupid how they didn't just have Hayter do Ground Zeroes, and have Sutherland do Phantom Pain. Ground Zeroes is like a few months after Peace Walker, right?
 

Epcott

Member
It's simply incredibly stupid how they didn't just have Hayter do Ground Zeroes, and have Sutherland do Phantom Pain. Ground Zeroes is like a few months after Peace Walker, right?

Maybe the felt it would have been too jarring to go from one to the other. If getting Keifer and changing the tone is Kojima's way to taking the series in a new direction, I wonder how many more BB/Punished Snake centric games he has in store?
 
I'm fine with the sound of Kiefer from what little we've heard. Hayter was good in MGS1-3 as well, and I could understand why he sounded the way he did in MGS4 but when he started going overboard in Peace Walker it was starting to get weird, especially if you go directly from 3 to PW. I think Kiefer fits with the tone presented in the trailers so far.

Maybe there's more to be had with Hayter, but I'm not going to lose any sleep if he's actually been completely replaced.
 
..but why is he still wearing an eye patch? They were able to replace his arm, but not his eye?

Eye patches are badass. Big Boss is a Badass.

Has Ocelot's or Emmerich's voice actors changed too? I'm not sure.

Christopher Randolph's IMDb page lists him as the VA for Emmerich in MGSV so he probably will stay, and Ocelot will be voiced by Troy Baker instead of Patric Zimmerman/Josh Keaton.
 

Jubern

Member
I quite honestly hope they don't go with a "It was never Big Boss!" twist, even if that's the more likely theory right now...
 

Angry Fork

Member
and Ocelot will be voiced by Troy Baker instead of Patric Zimmerman/Josh Keaton.

..............................................

WHY.

Awful, almost as bad as the Hayter change. Troy Baker is the new Nolan North, they're great VA's but come on they don't need to be in everything. I'll definitely be playing japanese voices.
 
Eye patches are badass. Big Boss is a Badass.



Christopher Randolph's IMDb page lists him as the VA for Emmerich in MGSV so he probably will stay, and Ocelot will be voiced by Troy Baker instead of Patric Zimmerman/Josh Keaton.

Konami has not said anything regarding Emmerich's VA. IMDb is not a reliable source as it is run by a community.

..............................................

WHY.

Awful, almost as bad as the Hayter change. Troy Baker is the new Nolan North, they're great VA's but come on they don't need to be in everything. I'll definitely be playing japanese voices.

It's bad to have a terrific voice actor in a game just because he happens to be in other video games ? Ridiculous. Besides, Baker has range. I didn't even recognize him in the MGS trailer until he was pointed out to me.
 
It's bad to have a terrific voice actor in a game just because he happens to be in other video games ? Ridiculous. Besides, Baker has range. I didn't even recognize him in the MGS trailer until he was pointed out to me.

No, but it's bad that they keep switching character's voices out for new actors in this game. It's fucking stupid. The Ocelot switch doesn't bother me as much as Hayter, since Baker seems to capture Pat Zimmerman's voice pretty well as to what I could assume he'd sound like in his 30's.
 
I don't think it will be a "Decoy Octopus" situation like some are saying. Only thing I've speculated at this point is the shrapnel has an affect on his brain and possibly his character/morals. It really does seem like we'll see him doing some messed up things in this game. This might be the way Kojima plans on explaining him turning "evil".
 
Konami has not said anything regarding Emmerich's VA. IMDb is not a reliable source as it is run by a community.

Right, I should have said to take it with a grain of salt as it is IMDb.

It's bad to have a terrific voice actor in a game just because he happens to be in other video games ? Ridiculous. Besides, Baker has range. I didn't even recognize him in the MGS trailer until he was pointed out to me.

I don't mind the change at all. I love Zimmerman's Ocelot voice, but the new voice sounds great too. Not a fan of the Hayter/Sutherland swap since Hayter's voice is one of the main reason's I love these games, but his voice work in Peace Walker was way over the top, almost as if he was making fun of his own voice.
 
I don't think it will be a "Decoy Octopus" situation like some are saying. Only thing I've speculated at this point is the shrapnel has an affect on his brain and possibly his character/morals. It really does seem like we'll see him doing some messed up things in this game. This might be the way Kojima plans on explaining him turning "evil".

I'm thinking he's one of four people;

Gray Fox
Decoy Octopus
Big Boss' hallucination
Someone completely new
 

Erigu

Member
It all seems to hinge on this.
Not really, no. The bits about the third man and "Ishmael" in particular are pretty significant. It pretty much screams "shocking twists ahead!"

But Big Boss does have a noticeable wound in that exact part of his forehead when he goes into the coma, so what's a more likely explanation?
1. It's a totally different guy who had plastic surgery to become Big Boss' exact clone, only for some reason he has a horn and a ponytail that Big Boss never had
2. The horn grew while Big Boss was in a coma
... and somehow you seem to be arguing 2 is the most likely explanation! ^^
Kojima said it was a piece of shrapnel. Those things don't grow.
But we do have an unseen third man who's been wounded alongside Big Boss and Kaz. Chances he got a piece of shrapnel to the head? Nonnegligible!


Not that they'd admit to it if it was supposed to be a twist, of course...
That being said, I think Snake's English voice was indeed recast and Hayter fans should just get over it.


It isn't likely at all! It's incredibly far-fetched.
I guess it may look that way when you decide to ignore so many elements.
 
No, dude, you're coming up with a far-fetched theory and then trying to make the evidence fit it. That's not how you analyse something. Discounting actual, documented quotes from the game's director just makes it look more like an insane conspiracy theory. I suppose you also discount the interview where Kojima states that the third man in the scene is Kojima himself? Happens at 5:58. It's his representation of himself in the game, looking at his own characters and wondering if they (and he) are still alive. Simple as that, straight from the horse's mouth. Ah, but that's just what they want you to think, I suppose. FOLLOW THE MONEY!

A third man in the scene does not suggest that someone is going to have plastic surgery to become Big Boss' exact double. It's wild speculation that might fit the facts, not a conclusion you've drawn from the facts. Like I said, if any of this turns out to be true then I'll chow down on some unseasoned crow without argument, but until then I'll continue believing the crazy theory that the guy who goes to sleep looking like Big Boss and wakes up looking like Big Boss is Big Boss.

EDIT - Watching that interview again is pretty interesting. At 7:15ish he also mentions that the horn is made of shrapnel and bone (lol, bone never grows, right?), and at 12:55 Keighley asks "Playing the entire game as one character?", to which Kojima answers, "Yes, one character".
 
If you haven't taken a look at the analysis that my cousin and I did (pre-E3), then please take a look. We cover a bunch of stuff having to do with who Ishmael is, the horn, and what the hell is going on in general.
 
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