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People people people ! Set your HDTV up correctly for consoles/PC !
- Thread starter DodgyGeezerFella
- Start date
Fnord
Member
If your TV does, however, support full range, you most certainly should enable it.
So which is preferred if you can do either? My TV has the options for RGB Range (16-235), non-compliance (0-255), or automatic.
Of course, the PS4 has the Auto, Limited, and Full options...
Whenever I enable non-compliance (0-255) and set the PS4 to "full," the PS4 home screen becomes significantly lighter. On the flip side...if I use RGB Range (16-235) and set the PS4 to limited, the blue is much deeper/darker.
If I set both the PS4 and the TV to their "auto" settings, it results in the exact same image as non-compliance (0-255) and PS4 at "full."
Also, what should the black level be? Light or Dark? I read over on AVS Forums that if you have it set to 16-235 then your black level should be low (and vice-versa).
They looked disabled to me.
Yeah I probably should take the time to learn how to properly configure my TV's image. Though I suppose playing a GCN game this weekend wasn't the best test for configuring. Though I was surprised that the image wasn't awful considering all the horror stories I've heard about playing SD content on an HD television.
KingGiddra
Member
interactivemonodrama
Banned
PC + HDMI + (Philips TV) TV SOURCE -> PC ? It works for me. Why would anyone consider this a problematic thing to solve.
Cannon Goose
Member
I thought it was crazy how much better the picture looked after changing the HDMI input's name to PC. Why hide the perfect automatic settings behind something so seemingly nonsensical?
Nope. If a TV is calibrated correctly for each, RGB Full and RGB Limited should look exactly the same.
Wrong way round, man.
RGB Full = Low Black Level
RGB Limited = Normal Black Level
Only after calibrating. I've seen many TVs that supposedly support the feature, yet simply don't show the 0-16 range of blacks, even when set up correctly. It's always best to double check.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
It really is ridiculous how much it improved for me. I feel like they should be offering a "No bullshit" button on TV's to remove this crap (why would you want anything over HDMI to have it on anyway ?).
I will try and take some photos that show off the improvement.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Nice. I just turned off all the image processing and smart picture stuff on the HDMI channel I'm using. Looking better, definitely. Not too happy about the "game" picture setting though. On my JVC 1080p tv I think the "bright" setting looks better. More backlight and a bit more colorful in general.
So what would you recommend for me? I'm using a panasonic plasma with calibration settings from avs forums.
I was referring to Samsung tv and a console...
if your console is set to send signal RGB full then use hdmi normal setting on a Samsung tv to meet the black level... If you use RGB limited from source, then Samsungs display properly with HDMI black set to low.
if you use low with full you get black crush , if you use normal with limited you get wash out
Do a 0-16 black level test to make sure you can see the black range. If you can't, something's up with the setup.
Yeah, even on Samsung, normal = limited and low = full. Normal is 16-235, the 'normal' range for TVs. Full is 0-255, the 'normal' range for PCs. This gives you a lower black level.
If you're getting black crush or greys, you need to re-calibrate your brightness and contrast, as it's setup incorrectly.
But what RGB settings should I set on the PS4 and TV before tweaking the black range?
Make sure both are set to Low/Full/Expanded/PC. Then try the 0-16 test and re-calibrate to see if the colours appear.
Bear in mind, if you're routing your TV picture through an AV Receiver, most of these don't support the full 0-255 RGB range at all.
I have a Panasonic plasma and for the record, I've never managed to get full RGB working on it, for some reason.
plagiarize
Banned
they should. I mean, I was shocked to here that Sony 4K TVs do not offer a mode where a 1080p input takes one pixel and makes it four, without doing any other fucking about. Panasonic's do, fortunately.
I'm glad to see you got things sorted out. 4:4:4 chroma is this bizarre thing that should be front and center on TV spec sheets but isn't.
I do wonder sometimes if the people who say 'you can't tell the difference between 900p and 1080p know what 1080p is even supposed to look like on their TV.
pertinent calibration test card for full/limited:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
when set up the way you describe on all three Samsung plasma sets I have owned, I get horrible black crush or wash out (with 360 or Xbox One as source)...so no-go there. unless I severely overcompensate the brightness/contrast settings
the setting on the Samsung adjusts for the incoming signal... So telling it to use low appears to compensate for limited black hdmi and saying normal, appears to prepare to receive a full 0-255 signal
Because some of them don't even support it and the ones that do have only have an auto setting via HDMI EDID information. Some devices are not sending this information correctly so it fucks things up.
Only the latest 60 series has a setting in the menu to manually select the HDMI black level.
Interesting. Thanks. I'll tweak with it more and see what I can come up with. I'm also using a Panasonic Plasma (s60). PS4 straight to the TV via HDMI.
Just for reference, I've been using the 2nd set of calibration settings found here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461177/official-panasonic-s60-series-discussion-thread/1290#post_23290695
My only issue has been with dark scenes in both BF4 and Tomb Raider. I had to tweak both of their respective brightness settings in-game to get it bright enough for me to see. Interestingly enough, switching my TV and PS4 to the "Full" RGB seems to instantly fix this problem...but everything seems to have a general light, haze type effect.
Yep. That's the TV I have. So should I put the HDMI black level as light or dark? Nearly everyone online says "light" but whenever I put the TV and PS4 on full RGB, everything looks washed out, although brighter.
Yeah, this doesn't make any sense :/
You should try the 0-16 test to make sure everything's alright. Sounds to me like your picture's getting distorted somewhere along the line.
Yup, I have the VT60 and even with RGB Full manually selected, it still fucks up. Might try a new HDMI cable.
Yeah, give it a go man. I got used to the crushed blacks when I first got my VT60. I thought it was normal because the blacks were so deep and inky but it turns out I was missing all the shadow detail too. Playing Dead Rising 3, for example, was pretty much impossible.
I changed to Limited RGB and everything was completely washed out. Blacks were grey and the image looked dull. But after a re-calibration, it looked exactly as before. Just as inky but with tons of shadow detail too.
plagiarize
Banned
for what it's worth, I think Tomb Raider is supposed to be dark on a properly calibrated set. It is for me, but without black crush. It's like, Agents of Shield was driving me crazy until I realized that, no, that show is just really dark compared to everything else.
I prefer 16-235 with limited setting because that's what Blu-rays output natively.
Basically, if you're using your TV as a TV, you should be using limited. Only use Full if you're working with a PC.
There is still some debate about consoles though because some argue that games are created with 0-255. So game consoles should be set to full too.
The problem is though that there is no standard in the games industry regarding this. So some games might be made with this and others with 16-235 in mind.
Either way though you would be hard pressed to distinguish between 0-255 and 16-235 if it is the same TV model and is correctly set up side by side. So when in doubt it is better to leave it at 16-235.
Well I'll be dang...I knew I wasn't crazy. Just ran this on my PS4 with the settings I've been using. Could only see the bottom row of those black squares. Guess that means I've been playing with crushed blacks this whole time? No wonder I had to crank up the brightness on Tomb Raider and BF.
Changing both the PS4 and my TV to the "full" RGB seemed to fix this instantly as I can now view each black box with your pattern. Looks like I can also get the same result though by setting both to limited or both to auto.
Basically, they just have to be the same. Before, the PS4 was set to "auto" and the TV was set to standard. Resulted in crushed blacks for me. Holy crap I can't believe I've been playing like this for months.
Yeah I think so too. That being said...pretty sure mine were crushed b/c I couldn't see any of the "tomb raider" logo within the in-game brightness adjustments.
I went back and set tv to normal and limited (wash out) and made some brightness, cont adjustments and got a pretty damned good picture. About the same As low/limited with higher brightness settings but I actually think I'm getting more detail and slightly better image. Have brightness very low though (20)
running everything through xbone btw, direct to tv, skipping receiver
thx
I just tried this, and while it makes a noticeable difference while on my PS3's home screen, it doesn't do a thing when in a game. While in a game I can change the name back and forth from PC to anything else, and there's no difference. If I pop back to the home screen, however, the differences return.
plagiarize
Banned
in my experience with my set, Auto doesn't always work. I like to manually specify, slightly annoyingly for me, I run all my equipment through my AV receiver, and the Wii U doesn't offer full output, so when playing that I have to manually change it and remember to put it back, since Auto doesn't function correctly when using my PS4 (I think it was PS4 which was giving it problems, anyway... it's been a little while).
There you go, dude! Enjoy.
This isn't true. You have more available color tones with full RGB range (16.5 million) than with limited range (10.5 million). It's possible to see the difference e.g. on full-screen gradients.
By the way, if you have a PC with a NV GPU an want to use full range with a TV you might find this useful.
Jeronimo Jones
Member
I have a newer Samsung LCD and had a similar experience as some of you with PS4 black crush/wash out. I noticed how dark/gray some areas were depending on the settings. Since then, I decided not to use PS4's auto black level option and I think I have it set up correctly.
Now because of this thread, I'm second-guessing my settings, so I'll be messing around with some of these suggestions on sharpness and color when I get home from work.
Now because of this thread, I'm second-guessing my settings, so I'll be messing around with some of these suggestions on sharpness and color when I get home from work.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Holy shit I set my game input to PC and the picture is a whole lot better.
Not if the source material is 16-235.
Holy fucking shit.
I thought this wouldn't work because edge enhancment was something I could tick off in game mode but it would only tone the enhancement down and not off. I popped the fucker into movie mode after turning off game mode and re input all my previous picture setting and WHAM! It looks beautiful now. Oh my god thank you so much. I've been pulling my hair out over this for the past few years since I got this POS.
I always use 16-235 with my PC aswell.
HueyFreeman
Banned
I guess I came in expected to find some actual suggestions on how to do this. You just kind of mention "post-processing" but don't indicate what to disable.
I'm somebody who kind of obsessively fiddles with my TV to optimize it, but for somebody just walking into this topic, OP, you might want to give them some tips in your opener there.
I'm somebody who kind of obsessively fiddles with my TV to optimize it, but for somebody just walking into this topic, OP, you might want to give them some tips in your opener there.
I assume you have a Samsung TV then? PC Mode doesn't support 720p for some silly reason, and a lot of PS3 games are 720p only. If you have a 1080p game you can test, it should work, but 720p games miss out.
No, but this thread is about setting up your HDTV for consoles/PC. That's full RGB source material.
I like to argue about IQ more than anyone and all my screens are calibrated to sRGB using a Spyder4
Off topic but I always enjoyed the irony of knowing many people arguing about IQ would be viewing their games on poorly calibrated and adjusted TVs with all manner of over-saturation and horrible colour tones. Petty I know.
As someone who believes in investing in calibrating expensive HD equipment though I can't back the OP enough in terms of asking people to make the effort to actually see games at their best.
As someone who believes in investing in calibrating expensive HD equipment though I can't back the OP enough in terms of asking people to make the effort to actually see games at their best.
Just bought a Sony Bravia KDL-42W654A last week. I managed to make a very satisfying Game-Mode preset that doesn't have overblown saturation or anything IMO
Here's the settings as they come in order: (Hint, press Options on the remote to bring up the menu, then select [Scene Select] then choose Game Mode)
Press the Options button on the remote. Enter [Picture] and this opens up:
Target Inputs = Current (doesn't matter as long as you have it selected for your game source)
Picture Mode = Game-Standard
(Backlight = 8)
Contrast = "Max"
Brightness = 50
Colour = 60
Hue = 0
Colour Temperature = Neutral
Sharpness = 65 (65 is standard. Sometimes games look better if you turn it down a bit)
Noise Reduction = Off (Greyed out)
MPEG NR = Off (grey)
Dot NR = Off (grey)
Reality Creation = Off (This is set to "Auto" by default and what it does is create some extra sharpness around certain edges and objects that make certain details stand out. Unfortunately in games it causes fonts to have a grey outline and it looks pretty bad once you notice, so "Off" with that)
Video Area Detection = Off (grey)
Resolution = -- (greyed out)
Smooth Gradiation = Low (I still haven't seen what it does as I can't spot differences between "off" and "high")
Film Mode = Off (grey)
And then select [Advanced Settings] in the bottom of the [Picture] menu:
Black Corrector = High (seriously, this makes everything look MUCH better. It makes the blacks look blacker, lol, but without it everything looks foggy by comparison and it doesn't look artificial at all with it on.)
Adv. Contrast Enhancer = Off (This looks artificial with it on.)
Gamma = 0 (sometimes the screen is a bit dark, so you might wanna turn it up)
Auto Light Limiter = Off
Clear White = Off (It can make color temperature look cold if on)
Live Color = High (Dunno if this increases input lag, but it doesn't look artificial in the slightest, and everything looks more vibrant with it on)
Detail Enhancer = Low (Very hard to notice, but it basically increases aliasing in games when it's on, but 720p games look blurry with it off sometimes, so set it to low)
Edge Enhancer = High (Makes fonts look less blown out of proportion. I reccommend you use this, especially in lower-res games.)
Here's the settings as they come in order: (Hint, press Options on the remote to bring up the menu, then select [Scene Select] then choose Game Mode)
Press the Options button on the remote. Enter [Picture] and this opens up:
Target Inputs = Current (doesn't matter as long as you have it selected for your game source)
Picture Mode = Game-Standard
(Backlight = 8)
Contrast = "Max"
Brightness = 50
Colour = 60
Hue = 0
Colour Temperature = Neutral
Sharpness = 65 (65 is standard. Sometimes games look better if you turn it down a bit)
Noise Reduction = Off (Greyed out)
MPEG NR = Off (grey)
Dot NR = Off (grey)
Reality Creation = Off (This is set to "Auto" by default and what it does is create some extra sharpness around certain edges and objects that make certain details stand out. Unfortunately in games it causes fonts to have a grey outline and it looks pretty bad once you notice, so "Off" with that)
Video Area Detection = Off (grey)
Resolution = -- (greyed out)
Smooth Gradiation = Low (I still haven't seen what it does as I can't spot differences between "off" and "high")
Film Mode = Off (grey)
And then select [Advanced Settings] in the bottom of the [Picture] menu:
Black Corrector = High (seriously, this makes everything look MUCH better. It makes the blacks look blacker, lol, but without it everything looks foggy by comparison and it doesn't look artificial at all with it on.)
Adv. Contrast Enhancer = Off (This looks artificial with it on.)
Gamma = 0 (sometimes the screen is a bit dark, so you might wanna turn it up)
Auto Light Limiter = Off
Clear White = Off (It can make color temperature look cold if on)
Live Color = High (Dunno if this increases input lag, but it doesn't look artificial in the slightest, and everything looks more vibrant with it on)
Detail Enhancer = Low (Very hard to notice, but it basically increases aliasing in games when it's on, but 720p games look blurry with it off sometimes, so set it to low)
Edge Enhancer = High (Makes fonts look less blown out of proportion. I reccommend you use this, especially in lower-res games.)
Rex_Harrison
Banned
I have a VT60. BF4 was dark as hell, I had to crank up in game brightness slider and I still couldn't see enemies inside of the darker buildings.
I then went into the PS4 settings and changed it to RGB limited. This is the correct setting for TV's. I still get nice, dark blacks but now I can see everything inside dark buildings. Keep the black level set to Light. Make sure you adjust your "in game" brightness settings. I also set my gamma to 2.4 when gaming in a dark room. I don't know if you can easily change the gamma In the S60 though.
Whoa. Just from renaming? How odd. I'll have to try that.