notoccupanther
Member
Why do you think both their conferences are on back-to-back the same day at E3 ... Microsoft announce partnership first and pass the book to Sony who hits the home run for cross platform title
0_o
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Wall Street Journal: Xbox One - "You own an object, but you merely access a service"
- Thread starter RobbieH
- Start date
Why do you think both their conferences are on back-to-back the same day at E3 ... Microsoft announce partnership first and pass the book to Sony who hits the home run for cross platform title
0_o
I'd be embarrassed because of the poor quality work.
Someone has the gif where Kaz slits Xbone dudes throat?
I'd be cautious posting stuff like this. You may suffer from friendly fire.
I doubt they will announce exactly the same restrictions. Without a 24-hour check (and I doubt the PS4 will have one), they can't really impose the same rules.
It is also on the front page of Forbes
Pretty crazy that its competing with the NSA leak.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
DOMINATE
RumblingRosco
Member
Honestly... it's kind of sad. As much as I hate this XBone thing, I'm not sure it should be more important to Americans than the NSA leak.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
Entirely in sony's hands now ... The only thing more disappointing than the xbone at this point would be sony somehow deflating their ridiculous good fortune at e3.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
oh lord, they're not just on reddit and gaf
What the fuck!? I love my Sega Genesis!
I do like the idea of getting off, though.
I... that's... amazing...
It'll never happen, but what a moment that'd be in an E3 conference if they announced the PS4 doesn't have all that anti-consumer stuff and the music begins to play.
Lightning Lord
Banned
It could be just as bad, since Microsoft is a partner with NSA and the Xbone has both Skype and Kinect required to be on.
Smiles and Cries
Member
putting a billion dollars into games means no matter what MS will find a way to market and get help to spin this until it is a forgotten issue
this is going to be very interesting to watch
this is going to be very interesting to watch
Only the tiny hardcore niche of neogaf cares about this stuff, you guys.
But Forbes is an international site. Being important to Americans doesn't make it important to everyone else.
oh lord, they're not just on reddit and gaf
Luckily the other people in the comments were quick to destroy that dude.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
I feel like writing a snail mail letter to MS about this. It may not change anything, but at least I'll get something off of my chest... in a polite manner, of course.
It's looking like it, yup. I'll let you know for sure after E3.
Nightstick11
Banned
How about no, Microsoft.
Sony, Nintendo, Apple(??), anyone is better than the dystopia Microsoft would yoke us to. Want DRM that satisfies publishers and gamers? How about this: Keep the "DRM" present in a NES or Genesis cartridge. I buy it, it's mine, fuck off.
Sony, Nintendo, Apple(??), anyone is better than the dystopia Microsoft would yoke us to. Want DRM that satisfies publishers and gamers? How about this: Keep the "DRM" present in a NES or Genesis cartridge. I buy it, it's mine, fuck off.
KnightSlyder
Banned
It is very charitable for MS to allow consumer's the 'permission' to use their service...hope they choke on it!
What i was thinking, kind of weird.
Still, at least one of those it's getting attention, better than nothing.
The Xbox One might be appealing if it turns out to be completely free, but it won't be. I just can't imagine why anyone would willingly purchase a console like that. Why would someone put up with all those arbitrary rules, restrictions and guidelines when they can simply choose not to buy it?
It doesn't matter how many exclusive games it gets - unless they remove all the restrictions and rules, who'd intentionally buy it?
Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is why they would release all this information about it, and in such a blatant way. You'd think they would downplay all those awful rules, phrase it differently so that it could be interpreted in more ways etc. Are they bound by law or something?
It's like.. if I had a product I wanted to sell, and in the first page of the description I say that it's a terrible product that comes with a ton of arbitrary rules, instead of saying it in a manner that's open to interpretation and makes the (seemingly) most obvious one sound great. Well, I wouldn't personally do that, but any company that's out to make a profit does so.
EDIT: Well, in light of the NSA thing, it sort of makes sense if they are indeed doing business together. The Xbox One debacle might undermine the NSA thing, and it certainly provides a better balance of mindshare. Without the Xbox One debacle, there wouldn't be any balance, the NSA one would dominate and be the only thing people talked about, and would get far, far more attention.
Sony has a chance to completely dominate the next generation. I really, really hope they are in a position to do so. While it may be hyperbolic, I think that if there is no proper alternative to a next-gen, horrible DRM console, the console gaming market would crash. If there isn't, gaming would be changed for the far, far worse, and the publishers would control everything. Disposable, simplistic gaming experiences would become the norm.
This Xbox One scheme is seemingly terrible for everyone but the console creator and a select, few wealthy publishers.
It doesn't matter how many exclusive games it gets - unless they remove all the restrictions and rules, who'd intentionally buy it?
Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is why they would release all this information about it, and in such a blatant way. You'd think they would downplay all those awful rules, phrase it differently so that it could be interpreted in more ways etc. Are they bound by law or something?
It's like.. if I had a product I wanted to sell, and in the first page of the description I say that it's a terrible product that comes with a ton of arbitrary rules, instead of saying it in a manner that's open to interpretation and makes the (seemingly) most obvious one sound great. Well, I wouldn't personally do that, but any company that's out to make a profit does so.
EDIT: Well, in light of the NSA thing, it sort of makes sense if they are indeed doing business together. The Xbox One debacle might undermine the NSA thing, and it certainly provides a better balance of mindshare. Without the Xbox One debacle, there wouldn't be any balance, the NSA one would dominate and be the only thing people talked about, and would get far, far more attention.
Sony has a chance to completely dominate the next generation. I really, really hope they are in a position to do so. While it may be hyperbolic, I think that if there is no proper alternative to a next-gen, horrible DRM console, the console gaming market would crash. If there isn't, gaming would be changed for the far, far worse, and the publishers would control everything. Disposable, simplistic gaming experiences would become the norm.
This Xbox One scheme is seemingly terrible for everyone but the console creator and a select, few wealthy publishers.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
6/7/2013 @ 11:26PM
KnightSlyder
Banned
Crazy huh? Unless this is the good news and they're giving it to us first to soften the bad on the way.
It smacks of an overconfidence achieved only by those with backing.
Just think about all of the products that Microsoft has created. Outside of Windows OS on PC and Microsoft Office, what success have they had lately? Xbox and Xbox 360 did well, but outside of those? Do you think maybe they're poorly managed overall? That without Bill Gates they have truly lost their way? That they're completely out of touch with what a consumer wants?
I mean those Windows Phones and Windows Tablets are flying off the shelves! I've heard numerous accolades were heaped upon Windows 8 and it wasn't blamed at all for the sudden drop in PC sales since its release...
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Straight to the point.
Mainstream outlets have been doing a much better job than the gaming outlets as of late.
There are quite a few of them (such as GiantBomb) I have written off.
Haha. Yeah, it does imply overconfidence, extreme arrogance and living in a corporate-bubble mentality, but still, they've invested lots of money into this, and should have had lots of experts and such researching this stuff. This is way more extreme than Windows 8 or anything ridiculous that Microsoft has done so far.
It's just so unlikely that they weren't aware of the likely backlash, which makes their phrasing so weird. As if they suddenly decided to be honest with their most terrible product so far. I used to think that, if the console turned out to require internet, and/or that they'd restrict used/rented games, they wouldn't comment on it, or would phrase it weirdly -- I certainly did not expect them to go into detail about it.
This really only makes sense if they were bound by law to disclose this information in a clear, concise way (Which is unlikely.), or if they are working with NSA on the Xbox one. (Unlikely?), or an absurd, unreasonable amount of arrogance.
Yeah, but still, it's baffling that a corporation that has managed to become as powerful and wealthy as Microsoft doesn't have safeguards in place to prevent this. Maybe Bill Gates and his allies/board/whatever did enforce such a system of rules, and when he left, they removed that system, because they thought that it was an unnecessary and silly drain on resources or whatever. Something along those lines would explain the current situation.
They need to do more to clear up on the DRM and why it is needed if they want to pitch it if it is indeed there as bad as people thing. Otherwise they need to backout of it and still be clear about it. Its reached mainstream now, and that is a problem because that's the target market.
I still cannot believe this thing won't play games the minute it doesn't connect to the internet within 24 hours. There will be a mass of angry uninformed consumers banging on Microsoft's doors the second this happens. How could they not foresee this happening or being an issue?
what's crazy is they didn't wait for friday to release it
oh lord, they're not just on reddit and gaf
Christ, if I have to hear about Minority Report ever again from a marketer...
Its like plugging into the Matrix!
Microsoft is trying to appeal to a different market now (quite why a non-gamer would spend $400+ on a voice-controlled TV guide is beyond me) and probably felt only the core gaming press would cover this story, it'd run for a few days leading into E3 and now there's no opportunity for the press to ask any follow-up questions as they've cancelled every E3 interview / roundtable. In attempting to clarify the mess they made following their reveal - because there's only so long they could avoid the questions - they have only made things worse. They won't mention any of this at all during their conference as the mainstream media would destroy them. Release the bad news now, show shiny games at E3, hope the mind share of the mainstream becomes "it controls TV AND plays awesome games!", run away. That's the plan. They tried this at the reveal, it failed, and they have clearly learned nothing. The first time they open themselves up to questioning they'll be slaughtered; they know this because their policies are bullshit.
What they clearly didn't count on was it making the front page of BBC, Forbes, Time, CNN, NBC and The Wall Street Journal. Did they not see how much attention our Twitter campaign received? Of course this was going to reach the mainstream. Furthermore, the wording of the release is a blatant attempt to shift the blame onto publishers. They're trying to save face but as has been the story with everything Microsoft has done over the past 2 years they failed spectacularly. It speaks to a company so out of touch (and that's the key thing here) with the needs of consumers that they actually think this shit benefits us in some way, as if we should be grateful that the almighty Microsoft is allowing us "permission" to play our games. "Hey guys, great news! We listened to your feedback! We support used games and loaning games! *
* Only at participating retailers who agree to our terms; only if the publisher of that game has allowed the game to be sold or traded; at prices they now control; only if the person receiving the game has been on your friend list for 30 days; only if the game has not been sold prior; only if the person receiving the game has a stable internet connection to both activate and play the game; we may also cease to offer certain services or products for similar reasons; loaning games won't be available at launch."
- 8-4 Play Podcast: "They're fucking the consumer so they can help out publishers. That's exactly what's happening here. Let's just be crystal fucking clear."
- Adweek: Gamers Grow Increasingly Incensed with Microsoft's Xbox One
- Attack of the Fanboy: Dear Xbox One: It’s Not Me, It’s You (seriously, read this)
- BBC: Xbox One: Microsoft defends pre-owned games rules
- Bloody-Disgusting: Microsoft Answers Our Lingering Questions About The Xbox One
- Blorge: Why gamers hate the Xbox One
- Business Recorder: Sony PS4 to wipe out Xbox One?
- Buzz Focus: Microsoft Xbox One Gives the Silent F-U to Ebay
- CNN: Microsoft talks game-sharing, 'always-on' Xbox One
- Complex: Microsoft Finally Reveals Xbox One Details, It's Mostly All Bad News
- Destructoid: Xbox One kills game ownership, here's what Xbox fans say
- Eurogamer: Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile
- Examiner: Xbox One: What gamers need to know about Microsoft’s used game policies
- Forbes Contributor: Microsoft Confirms Gamers' Fears Over Xbox One
- Forbes Contributor (2): Microsoft's Shortsighted Approach Might Have Already Killed Xbox One
- Forbes Contributor (3): The Xbox One Might Let Sony's PS4 Win By Default
- Gadget Review: Official: Xbox One Internet Connection Required to Play Games
- Gameranx: Xbox One's Privacy Concerns Arise Again In Light Of Microsoft's Involvement With PRISM
- Giant Bomb: The Giant Bomb staff deciphers the digital-rights policies for Microsoft's new console through interpretive dance
- Giant Bomb (2): Major Publishers Silent On Xbox One Used Game Policies
- IncGamers: No, the Xbox One is not just like Steam
- Kotaku: The Xbox One Just Had A Very Bad Day
- Kotaku (2): When Will Gamers Say Enough Is Enough?
- LazyGamer: Microsoft confirms insane Xbox One DRM
- MCV UK: Indie retailers desperate for Xbox One pre-owned answers
- MCV UK (2): Publishers quiet over Xbox One pre-owned intentions
- Metro UK: Xbox One and the corporate war against consumers
- NBC News: Microsoft clarifies policies on game licensing, privacy, and DRM for Xbox One
- NowGamer: Xbox One: It's For Publishers, Not For You
- PC Magazine: Microsoft Xbox One: No Internet? Big Problem
- Polygon: Xbox One policy is a lovely marriage proposal to big corporations
- Polygon (2): Indie developers sound off on next-gen consoles and the importance of self-publishing
- Polygon (3): Microsoft's Xbox One policy answers raise even more questions
- RedOrbit: You Can Share Your Xbox One Games (Sort Of)
- Shacknews: Publishers comment on Xbox One used games policy
- TechnoBuffalo: Xbox One and Used, Borrowed and Sold Games – The Official Word
- TechnoBuffalo (2): Xbox One: Unless Microsoft Changes Their Policies, I’m Out
- TechRadar: Xbox One 'always online': What does it mean for gamers?
- TechSpot: Xbox One will force gamers to stay online after all
- The Diplomat: Has Microsoft Already Ruined the Xbox One?
- The Guardian: Xbox One requires daily net connection
- The Wall Street Journal: Microsoft’s Xbox One: Owning Your Video Games Is So 1994
- Time: Microsoft’s Xbox One Used Games Policies Are Clear as Mud
- VG247: Xbox One: the record is broken, long live the record
- VG247 (2): Xbox One pre-owned: analysts, publishers, indie retailers weigh-in
- WhatCulture!: Xbox One: 10 Shocking Things You Won’t Believe
Worth watching:
- AngryJoe: Xbox One: Angry Rant Pt. 2
- boogie2988 (the guy who does Francis): Xbox One: To buy or not to buy and why.
- Hip Hop Gamer: Xbox One Exist Cause Of Gamers, Gamers Can Also Make You Disappear "We Come First"
No thanks, Microsoft. You can keep your underpowered, always online, region-locked, backwards-incompatible entertainment console.
A Black Falcon
Member
It'll only be a disaster if MS sticks with the DRM, which I think they will, and in the end the system actually doesn't sell. MS is betting that people will end up buying Xbox Ones, despite their complaining now.
I'm hoping that they are going to be wrong about that, but sadly I can't be too confident...
KnightSlyder
Banned
Yep. Cloud this and Cloud that leads to castles in the air. Rented hardware is the next phase...
My internet is from satellite. I pay dearly for what most of you take for granted. Overage runs about $10/gb...a large game like lego city (17gb) becomes costly to download.
I get the whole DRM thing, but Jesus, for a person who is a PC gamer (looking at post history) suddenly going balls to the wall after MS is highly disturbing....
How does it threaten the PC domain (assuming this is where the Vitriol is coming from)??
I'm with you.. I love the 360, but still have a PS3 for exclusives and enjoy those.. I suspect it's going to be the other way around next gen, PS4 for sure (pre-ordered), XB1 not that fussed at the moment..
I'll vote with my wallet though, and if anyone asks if I'd buy an XB1, I'd tell them flat out why not.. but I can't get any more emotionally invested then that..
Ahh. Yeah, I was thinking that some of their timing and messages were designed to make sure it doesn't reach the mainstream, by sending out a mixed message, get people in and and around the "hardcore" to use up all their steam and interest (Wearing the subject out.) by discussing it internally -- like forums outside of the purview of casuals and the mainstream.
I just got an original Xbox and a 360 this year and like the machines, but it has been apparent to me from the start that Microsoft was screwing over consumers. There are great games and services offered but there is also a lot of stuff Microsoft has done that screws over consumers.
You pay for an internet connection and pay for Netflix, even though that is good enough for any other device, Microsoft makes you pay them money for the service of accessing that on their console. Activison releases Call of Duty and has their own servers for the game which you have paid for, yet you must pay to access this. The original Xbox had a DVD player built in yet the user had to pay 50$ for a remote to get it to work.
Them making things inconvenient for the user doesn't surprise me, but the sheer intensity of changes from 360 to Xbox One is insane. Their DRM stuff is incredibly restrictive and it is also something that the average person will be confused by, really bad move on their part. In fact I think they are going to lose more buyers out of confusion with this than buyers who just hate DRM.
I can imagine a mom going in Target with her kids to get the next Xbox and when they ask the associate about it he tells them:
"Disk installs onto the console and you must be internet connected and create and online account, the internet needs to be on so it can check every 24 hours that you are an authentic user, if he wants to share it with a friend the friend needs an online account and they have to add each other through the online service and wait 30 days. Once the game is registered to you participating publishers will let certain stores trade them in for a predetermined value, check the list on xbox.com"
Think about how complicated this stuff is to understand for the average buyer. There are plenty of people who have game systems that dont have them connected to the internet. I dont think it's possible for Microsoft to change the DRM stuff, the system has been entirely engineered around this and it is more than just some sort of firmware update. They have too much money in this and it will come out, maybe there will be revised models down the line but it's too late.
You pay for an internet connection and pay for Netflix, even though that is good enough for any other device, Microsoft makes you pay them money for the service of accessing that on their console. Activison releases Call of Duty and has their own servers for the game which you have paid for, yet you must pay to access this. The original Xbox had a DVD player built in yet the user had to pay 50$ for a remote to get it to work.
Them making things inconvenient for the user doesn't surprise me, but the sheer intensity of changes from 360 to Xbox One is insane. Their DRM stuff is incredibly restrictive and it is also something that the average person will be confused by, really bad move on their part. In fact I think they are going to lose more buyers out of confusion with this than buyers who just hate DRM.
I can imagine a mom going in Target with her kids to get the next Xbox and when they ask the associate about it he tells them:
"Disk installs onto the console and you must be internet connected and create and online account, the internet needs to be on so it can check every 24 hours that you are an authentic user, if he wants to share it with a friend the friend needs an online account and they have to add each other through the online service and wait 30 days. Once the game is registered to you participating publishers will let certain stores trade them in for a predetermined value, check the list on xbox.com"
Think about how complicated this stuff is to understand for the average buyer. There are plenty of people who have game systems that dont have them connected to the internet. I dont think it's possible for Microsoft to change the DRM stuff, the system has been entirely engineered around this and it is more than just some sort of firmware update. They have too much money in this and it will come out, maybe there will be revised models down the line but it's too late.
robertsan21
Member
why are they saying that? Sony has not yet said if they will do the same, and sony is more important as a games console than Xbox one ever will be. The future is with sony unless they screw up and take the same stance as MS is doing.
the house of Sony will fall.
a choice will be given.
an unavailable option to first party will become imaginations and dreams of the third.
edit;
holy shit Robbie. ....
They don't have the balls to force publishers into a model that will make consumers happy. They'll just hide under the "It's up to the publisher" option for a few more months to avoid total backlash.
TrueSpartan
Neo Member
so, like steam?
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Not this retarded shit again.
PC = open platform, plenty of other services with no DRM whatsoever, no always online checks on Steam, can play offline, infinite backwards compatibility, etc.
This without counting the fact that Steam came and SAVED PC gaming which was on his death bed, and being a service in an open platform means there's competition and that competition means those incredible Steam sales, Amazon sales, GOG sales, GMG sales and so on, plus an average of $20 less than console skus for multiplat preorders.
Xbox One = close platform, no competition whatsoever, platform holder controls everything.
Apples and oranges.
Understood? Is it more clear now