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[commedieu]

so, like steam?

honestly, mods? a sticky is paramount at this point.


the content of the post is 10000% wrong, and Is an insult to Lord Gabriel. err valve...


but this "dur steam" shit Has to stop. will the poster even care steam has no 24 hour check? nope. will they read this? nope. will they keep regurgitating this "duuuuuuuuuuur steam?" shit?

yep.

 

[BigDug13]

Yep, just like steam. I really hate when steam makes me get online every 24 hours so that Valve can make sure I haven't stolen anything.

 

[Alx]

I don't think I had commented on that earlier, but I wanted to mention how I appreciated how the WSJ was one of the rare sources of information to write a level-headed article about that, without drama or sensationalist headlines.
Yes it's true that the market is evolving towards digital content and games becoming a service. It became obvious on this generation that this trend was building steam (haha). The next generation is a transition generation between retail and digital distribution, hence the proposed, slightly bastardized system.

So good on WSJ to be clear on that instead of just stating their like/dislike of the X1.

 

[neodeano]

Had enough. Xbox 360 on eBay and Gold account auto renewal cancelled - was just going to leave it on for the next Xbox. Sod that. Lets hope Sony don't adopt similar tactics or I'll just be left with my Wii U.

 

[TrueSpartan]

honestly, mods? a sticky is paramount at this point.


the content of the post is 10000% wrong, and Is an insult to Lord Gabriel. err valve...


but this "dur steam" shit Has to stop. will the poster even care steam has no 24 hour check? nope. will they read this? nope. will they keep regurgitating this "duuuuuuuuuuur steam?" shit?

yep.

Well I don't think anyone is implying steam and whatever is going on w/ Xbox one are identical...but clearly there are similarities, no?

Maybe its more accurate to say, like Steam minus the mandated 24 hour check in period.

 

[travisbickle]

They don't have the balls to force publishers into a model that will make consumers happy. They'll just hide under the "It's up to the publisher" option for a few more months to avoid total backlash.

But MS do not give the option for publishers not to have DRM.

There is literally no way to publish a game on MS platform without DRM.

If Sony leaves it up to the publishers, then fuck the ones that do and buy the ones that don't.

 

[Xbudz]

This is on the front page of BBC, Time, Forbes and The Wall Street Journal.

 

[BigDug13]

Well I don't think anyone is implying steam and whatever is going on w/ Xbox one are identical...but clearly there are similarities, no?

Maybe its more accurate to say, like Steam minus the mandated 24 hour check in period.

That's like saying I got stabbed in the back minus the knife. 24 hour Internet checks is a HUGE fucking deal compared to that other service that lets me play my games through a 6 month Naval deployment while OFFline.

 

[Erasus]

so, like steam?

Nope. Steam has an offline mode. Steam has regular sales.

 

[Resilient]

"Like steam" makes me laugh every time. Thankfully it's been addressed.

Sony are absolute Gods right now. It will be very unfortunate for them if they follow the same path as Xbone because they have so much going for them right now. I'm pretty nervous going into e3.

Oh FFS TrueSpartan. Dash JUST explained it perfectly. Don't ignore it because you don't agree. Now it's not making me laugh, now it's just annoying.

 

[Poona]

oh lord, they're not just on reddit and gaf

Halo, Forza, Madden and COD? If that's what MS is going to offer again (dudebro box ) mainly in their lineup, then no thanks. Give something more than fps, racers and sports. Though I don't mind racers like Mario kart/Diddy kong racing. Still bummed that MS scrapped Sabreman Stampede. That was going to be a racer with a difference.

Hopefully Sony comes to the rescue not only with not following MS down this no offline stuff, but also better variety of games and free online multiplayer.

 

[ant1532]

VIDEOGAMES IN THE NEWS

 

[JDSN]

Well I don't think anyone is implying steam and whatever is going on w/ Xbox one are identical...but clearly there are similarities, no?

Maybe its more accurate to say, like Steam minus the mandated 24 hour check in period.

Then its not Steam. Its like comparing sex with wanking... but with Kinect watching..I guess.

 

[rvy]

But MS do not give the option for publishers not to have DRM.

There is literally no way to publish a game on MS platform without DRM.

If Sony leaves it up to the publishers, then fuck the ones that do and buy the ones that don't.

If you give publishers an avenue to exploit the consumer, they will. What's the point of no forced DRM when 90% of the games will use it? Will you just refuse to buy 90% of software and be stuck enjoying the 10%?

 

[travisbickle]

If you give publishers an avenue to exploit the consumer, they will. What's the point of no forced DRM when 90% of the games will use it?

The point is you can support the publishers who don't use it.

 

[Amir0x]

Fantastic. More mainstream articles like this demonstrating decisively what the pure, negative truth is about the system is required to cut through the PR BS Microsoft is utilizing to con the community and consumers into thinking it's not so bad.

 

[WrenchNinja]

If you give publishers an avenue to exploit the consumer, they will. What's the point of no forced DRM when 90% of the games will use it? Will you just refuse to buy 90% of software and be stuck enjoying the 10%?

So why is it that Capcom was the only one to do it with the PS3 with just two downloadable games? Publishers have an avenue right now to do it with a platform.

 

[TheKayle]

if ms continue this way...will lose all the market share gained in this years...

pls FIRE everyone who worked on this console..restart from zero and you will be redeem MS

 

[rvy]

The point is you can support the publishers who don't use it.

Which means you're stuck playing a very, very small portion of what the console offers.

So why is it that Capcom was the only one to do it with the PS3 with just two downloadable games?

I don't know what you're talking about.

Publishers have an avenue right now to do it with a platform.

Right? What are online passes other than a stone-age version of DRM? Where is this world that you live in where major publishers aren't using Online passes? Sony uses it. EA games use it. Ubisoft uses it.

 

[Snapshot King]

If you give publishers an avenue to exploit the consumer, they will. What's the point of no forced DRM when 90% of the games will use it? Will you just refuse to buy 90% of software and be stuck enjoying the 10%?

Yes? Did everyone forget what happened to Ubisoft for trying their DRM stunt on PC? Their sales dropped by 90%. The idea is to make companies realize that it hurts their sales more to institute this kind of bullshit. Ubisoft is having a hard time realizing it though.

 

[BigDug13]

If you give publishers an avenue to exploit the consumer, they will. What's the point of no forced DRM when 90% of the games will use it? Will you just refuse to buy 90% of software and be stuck enjoying the 10%?

So what stopped all those publishers from doing what you say this past generation? There was nothing preventing publishers from taking their own DRM measures on 360 and PS3 and it didn't happen except in a couple cases. DRM consisted of insert disc to play.

Why do you suddenly think publishers are going to go through the trouble of providing their own infrastructure to require all their games to talk to their home server for authentication when it hasn't happened this gen?

Some will, but all, or even most? I doubt it. If Sony doesnt do it for them, most publishers won't bother doing it themselves.

 

[Septimius]

Well I don't think anyone is implying steam and whatever is going on w/ Xbox one are identical...but clearly there are similarities, no?

Maybe its more accurate to say, like Steam minus the mandated 24 hour check in period.

No it isn't.

And that would be "like Steam, plus the mandated 24 hour check in period". Psst, it's because buying at retail is not the same as buying digital. Retail means physical copy, means rights for a product you own. Forcing you to install for no good reason doesn't change that.

 

[bomma_man]

which is exactly how they'll avoid any legal issues and why it's not violating any consumer rights.

it's just giving you a different product, with a different service, with (arguably, though I think it's pretty obvious at this point) a shittier value proposition.

They won't avoid legal issues in the EU. You can't just EULA things away over there.

Edit: even Australia and Canada would be dicey

 

[Kurtofan]

oh lord, they're not just on reddit and gaf

Fantasia? Seriously?

 

[Xbudz]

Is this considered the greatest PR disaster in gaming history?

I can't think of one as bad as this.
Not to mention Microsoft was one of the first backers of PRISM

 

[smik]

this is honestly overwhelming, so much wrong and not enough words, loved...LOVED xbox360 but this current Bullshit, man.

edit

also Sony staying quiet is possible the best move they could do for marketing, Microsoft is quiet literally doing all their work.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I don't know what you're talking about.

Publishers could currently opt to impose a DRM on any game they wanted to and restrict used/lending/gifting.

But they don't. Because they don't want to assume the risk of consumer backlash leading them to other products instead.

An environment in which publishers can opt to restrict functions with DRM is not particularly different from now.

 

[Septimius]

oh lord, they're not just on reddit and gaf

 

[rvy]

Yes? Did everyone forget what happened to Ubisoft for trying their DRM stunt on PC? Their sales dropped by 90%. The idea is to make companies realize that it hurts their sales more to institute this kind of bullshit. Ubisoft is having a hard time realizing it though.

I'm not sure why you assume that console gamers function like PC players. You think any PC player would give Microsoft a yearly fee to play online? The Xbox One will sell like hot cakes, DRM or not, because every 15 year old in the world wants to play CoD next-gen.
They are not concerned about your rights as a consumers. If console players functioned like PC players, both Sony and Microsoft wouldn't get away with selling digital releases at the same price as physical releases. And Live wouldn't be as successful as it is either.

So what stopped all those publishers from doing what you say this past generation? There was nothing preventing publishers from taking their own DRM measures on 360 and PS3 and it didn't happen except in a couple cases. DRM consisted of insert disc to play.

Why do you suddenly think publishers are going to go through the trouble of providing their own infrastructure to require all their games to talk to their home server for authentication when it hasn't happened this gen?

Some will, but all, or even most? I doubt it. If Sony doesnt do it for them, most publishers won't bother doing it themselves.

But it didn't stop them? That's why they invented online passes.
A couple of cases? In which planet is the entire EA library for at least 3 or 4 years a couple of cases? Or Ubisoft's library when they introduced online passes? Even Sony uses online passes.

Publishers could currently opt to impose a DRM on any game they wanted to and restrict used/lending/gifting.

But they don't. Because they don't want to assume the risk of consumer backlash leading them to other products instead.

An environment in which publishers can opt to restrict functions with DRM is not particularly different from now.

It is when the main competition forces them to use DRM. The fact that the Xbox One has mandatory DRM changes things for everybody, including Sony.

 

[BigDug13]

I'm not sure why you assume that console gamers function like PC players. You think any PC player would give Microsoft a yearly fee to play online? The Xbox One will sell like hot cakes, DRM or not, because every 15 year old in the world wants to play CoD next-gen. They are not concerned about your rights as a consumers.
If console players functioned like PC players, both Sony and Microsoft wouldn't get away with selling digital releases at the same price as physical releases. And Live wouldn't be as successful as it is either.


But it didn't stop them? That's why they invented online passes.
A couple of cases? In which planet is the entire EA library for at least 3 or 4 years a couple of cases? Or Ubisoft's library when they introduced online passes? Even Sony uses online passes.

And that's why I didn't buy games from those publishers. Do you see the difference yet or are you still living in obtuse fantasyland. I can make my own choice as to what publishers to support. Microsoft is not really allowing that because every single game has DRM and so I simply avoid the entire console.

If Sony leaves it up to publishers, those few publishers that do not want me to buy their games will do like you said and will have online DRM and I won't buy. The rest of the publishers that don't treat me like a criminal after paying $60 will get my business.

These OPTIONS are not available on XBO.

 

[rvy]

And that's why I didn't buy games from those publishers. Do you see the difference yet or are you still living in obtuse fantasyland. I can make my own choice as to what publishers to support. Microsoft is not really allowing that because every single game has DRM and so I simply avoid the entire console.

If Sony leaves it up to publishers, those few publishers that do not want me to buy their games will do like you said and will have online DRM and I won't buy. The rest of the publishers that don't treat me like a criminal after paying $60 will get my business.

These OPTIONS are not available on XBO.

You're the one who seems to be obtuse. I'm not arguing that the Xbox One offers publishers options, I'm arguing that Sony giving them options will be meaningless because they will see more profit with their Xbox One sales than their PS4 sales due to used sales fees.

You didn't buy any EA, Ubisoft or Sony game that uses Online passes? Kudos.

 

[raphanum]

What I've been thinking is why didn't MS just release the X1 without, for example, the DRM, 24-hour check-ins acquire a huge user base and THEN within a year of release implement their plan?

 

[abic]

What I've been thinking is why didn't MS just release the X1 without, for example, the DRM, 24-hour check-ins acquire a huge user base and THEN within a year of release implement their plan?

Lawsuit

 

[Alx]

What I've been thinking is why didn't MS just release the X1 without, for example, the DRM, 24-hour check-ins acquire a huge user base and THEN within a year of release implement their plan?

Why would that be a good idea ? Sell a console, then reduce its usability with an update ? That would be terrible, and would rightfully create lawsuits everywhere. At least here they're stating their strategy from the get go, and the consumer is free to go with it or not.
If anything, the opposite may be a possibility : start with the strict DRM, and later loosen it up if it is not deemed successful. That wouldn't be a problem since it would be adding features to their product, not removing them.

 

[bomma_man]

Lawsuit

They'll get (at least) one anyway. This policy just cements that they only give a shit about corporate ballwashing America.

 

[Snapshot King]

I'm not sure why you assume that console gamers function like PC players. You think any PC player would give Microsoft a yearly fee to play online? The Xbox One will sell like hot cakes, DRM or not, because every 15 year old in the world wants to play CoD next-gen.
They are not concerned about your rights as a consumers. If console players functioned like PC players, both Sony and Microsoft wouldn't get away with selling digital releases at the same price as physical releases. And Live wouldn't be as successful as it is either.


But it didn't stop them? That's why they invented online passes.
A couple of cases? In which planet is the entire EA library for at least 3 or 4 years a couple of cases? Or Ubisoft's library when they introduced online passes? Even Sony uses online passes.



It is when the main competition forces them to use DRM. The fact that the Xbox One has mandatory DRM changes things for everybody, including Sony.

You're aware there are very real differences between a system like the Online Pass and one in which your content becomes a brick or coaster sans internet right? Right?

 

[BigDug13]

You're the one who seems to be obtuse. I'm not arguing that the Xbox One offers publishers options, I'm arguing that Sony giving them options will be meaningless because they will see more profit with their Xbox One sales than their PS4 sales due to used sales fees.

You didn't buy any EA, Ubisoft or Sony game that uses Online passes? Kudos.

Nope. Rock Band series was published by EA but didnt have any online passes. Other multiplats were bought on PC. And I'll get to enjoy next gen gaming without spending a dime on hardware for now. Though I'll still upgrade down the road.

I'll miss some exclusives like Halo and Kinect and the Sony stuff, but I don't buy a ton of games. I'll get a handful of 6 month old games for $20-30 total every once in awhile. All my friends bought Borderlands 2 for $13 each and we've been playing that. It's just so incredibly cheap that you forgive whatever BS Steam has.

But honestly the 24 Internet check is unforgivable and as the only American company out of the big three, its pretty disgusting to have policies that are so anti-military. I deployed 5 times with N64, Xbox, 360, and PCs over the years and was never denied service due to lack of Internet and I won't support it now.

 

[shinra-bansho]

It is when the main competition forces them to use DRM. The fact that the Xbox One has mandatory DRM changes things for everybody, including Sony.

That the XBO has an inherent, systemic DRM that prevents resale does not lead to conclusion that the PS4 has an inherent, systemic DRM.

Under Microsoft's system, while they try to foist any responsibility onto the publishers, it is at a basic system level that used games, lending and gifting are inhibited - due to a tying of physically purchased games to an account/console. Publishers are not opting into blocking used, they are simply given the option of opting out of blocking used; and aren't even given the option of opting out of 24-hour check-ins.

If Sony simply do not tie physically purchased game discs to an account/console then that in itself allows the above, and they can still let publishers do as they wish, subsequently, but at their own risk. They could in theory even have measures in place that publishers could use and it would still be a very big difference from a system where the default setting is that you cannot trade/lend/gift.

 

[TrueSpartan]

No it isn't.

And that would be "like Steam, plus the mandated 24 hour check in period". Psst, it's because buying at retail is not the same as buying digital. Retail means physical copy, means rights for a product you own. Forcing you to install for no good reason doesn't change that.

Buying at retail isn't the same as buying digital...but one should be able to find plenty of "sales" at retail. (Buy 2 get one free, buy one get the other 50% off...you see these deals frequently at retail)

Retail means you get a physical disc but I don't understand what you mean by rights for a product you own. Are you referring to a license to play the game...because we certainly never owned the game we had a physical copy of.

I also don't understand what you mean by forcing to install for no good reason. I install all of my PS3/360 games simply because it's more convenient and cuts down on loading time. Isn't there forced install of games via steam? Does steam allow one to simply run an executable of a game without actually going through some sort of installation process?

 

[WrenchNinja]

It is when the main competition forces them to use DRM. The fact that the Xbox One has mandatory DRM changes things for everybody, including Sony.

The main competition currently forces publishers to gate their online services behind a paywall. That did not force them to make the product on the other console work the exact same way.

 

[20cent]

oh lord, they're not just on reddit and gaf

oh, sony is already dead?

 

[travisbickle]

You're the one who seems to be obtuse. I'm not arguing that the Xbox One offers publishers options, I'm arguing that Sony giving them options will be meaningless because they will see more profit with their Xbox One sales than their PS4 sales due to used sales fees.

You didn't buy any EA, Ubisoft or Sony game that uses Online passes? Kudos.

Unless, you know, people don't buy them.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Is this considered the greatest PR disaster in gaming history?

I would say yes.

 

[Bleepey]

I'm actually starting to think that Sony are deliberately staying quiet while MS entrenches themselves in this shitstorm deeper and deeper so they can't flip-flop before E3.

At this point all they have to do to upstage MS at E3 is to play this one card.

Is it wring I kinda have fantasies about Kaz going up on stage saying PS4 most powerful games console, no online DRM, used games are allowed, free online and $400. He drops a mic and leaves to feedback and crowd applause.

 

[NullPointer]

What I've been thinking is why didn't MS just release the X1 without, for example, the DRM, 24-hour check-ins acquire a huge user base and THEN within a year of release implement their plan?

 

[Rebel Leader]

Yep, just like steam. I really hate when steam makes me get online every 24 hours so that Valve can make sure I haven't stolen anything.

and those sales man... shit prices all the time

 

[Graphics Horse]

What I've been thinking is why didn't MS just release the X1 without, for example, the DRM, 24-hour check-ins acquire a huge user base and THEN within a year of release implement their plan?

You can't suddenly just tell someone that their PS3 or Xbox 360 will need to do a 24 hour check in or it will no longer function.

They could have introduced a tier of games which required it later, perhaps, but I guess they want to set the tone of what to expect.

 

[Resilient]

Is it wring I kinda have fantasies about Kaz going up on stage saying PS4 most powerful games console, no online DRM, used games are allowed, free online and $400. He drops a mic and leaves to feedback and crowd applause.

Don't you get it. This is one big game of Yu-Gi-Oh. It's still Meto Saibas turn, but since when it is Kazis, he will activate his trap card (e3 conference).

 

[JonathanPower]

It is when the main competition forces them to use DRM. The fact that the Xbox One has mandatory DRM changes things for everybody, including Sony.

The thing is, publishers will never have enough power to decide in which countries Sony can sell its console, no matter what MS does. Sony also wants to sell their consoles in countries where there are no solid internet infrastructures, or to people that want to use their console offline. This is a huge chunk of market that MS will lose in favor to Sony. If anything, that fact that MD uses this online DRM gives Sony a competitive advantage, as Sony could end up having much larger user base.

 

[Trent Strong]

That's like saying I got stabbed in the back minus the knife. 24 hour Internet checks is a HUGE fucking deal compared to that other service that lets me play my games through a 6 month Naval deployment while OFFline.

My modem broke once and I didn't have the internet for three days. After one day Steam told me that I wasn't logged in and that I couldn't access off-line mode. I couldn't play any of my games for the other two days. I suspect I'm not the only something like this has happened to. I bet this kind of thing happens frequently with Steam.