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Seraphis Cain · Apr 25, 2012

(Note: Although I only specifically address Dynasty Warriors in this thread, I'm also talking about it's spin-offs Samurai Warriors and Warriors Orochi, as well as the Gundam series.)

As a huge Dynasty Warriors fan, it pains me to so often hear the series referred to as absolute garbage, the worst of the worst, etc. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the series. But I'll be the first to admit that it's not an AAA franchise, or an AA franchise, or even an A franchise. It's firmly rooted in the B-tier category of games. But it just absolutely baffles me when people treat the series the same way they treat licensed movie games and Gameloft shovelware. I mean, if the series were such garbage, why then does it have such a passionate fanbase not just in Japan, where it regularly tops sales charts, but all around the world? I often hear the complaint that the series is just rehash after rehash, but I strongly suspect that the people saying this are basing their stance off of the low scores most Western review outlets (with the exception of Jim Sterling from Destructoid) give the series, and haven't actually played a Warriors game since DW2 or DW3.

But the series HAS changed and evolved over time. Sure, it's still essentially the same sort of battlefield action game it always was, but then Call of Duty is still the same FPS it always was, Assassin's Creed is still the same open world action adventure game it always was, Street Fighter is still the same one on one fighting game it always was. But all of these series have changed and evolved over time. Just like Dynasty Warriors. From the perspective of a fan, the difference between Dynasty Warriors 2 and Dynasty Warriors 7 is the same as the difference between say, Tekken and Tekken 6.

So GAF, why do you dislike Dynasty Warriors so strongly? What's wrong with it, what makes it such a terrible franchise, and what would have to be done to get you to play it? Oh, and just to satisfy my curiosity, when was the last time you played one?

shinobi602 · Apr 25, 2012

Can't speak for everyone else, but the gameplay is just not enticing to me. Doesn't make me go "Now that was awesome!"

Uninterested in any of their stories, visuals are nothing to really write home about, and the combat is boring.

Imp the Dimp · Apr 25, 2012

I loved the shit out of Dynasty Warrios 3 + Xtreme Legends. Haven't touched any DW ever since though.

Raide · Apr 25, 2012

While they have added new bits and pieces over the years, it still a pretty standing mashing button game. No real though goes into combat or even tactics. At least games like Kingdom Under Fire managed to keep the mashy combat and add some actual tactics in there.

BrLvgThrChmstry · Apr 25, 2012

The last DW I've had the pleasure of playing was the Vita demo. I find the game(s) to be incredibly repetitive, tedious, and while engaging for the few levels... its gets boring. And I also find it visually, extremely uninteresting to look at. Whether its the art direction or graphical fidelity, it's one of the blandest looking games around.

Raide said:
While they have added new bits and pieces over the years, it still a pretty standing mashing button game. No real though goes into combat or even tactics. At least games like Kingdom Under Fire managed to keep the mashy combat and add some actual tactics in there.

Yep. Felt more like a battlefield to me then a collection areas/rooms where I'm just meatgrindin' through enemies (for the most part).

WJD · Apr 25, 2012

I absolutely loved DW3 when I was too young and stupid to know any different.

I miss those days.

EYEL1NER · Apr 25, 2012

Well I don't hate them.
I prefer the Orochi and Gundam games to the main Dynasty and Samurai series but I enjoy them all pretty much. I like Sengoku Basara as well, but not as much as the Musou games, which seems to be the opposite for most people.

I just like killing a ton of stuff. It's a good game for when you want to kill a couple thousand dudes.

Some people hate the games because they think they haven't changed and they are always more of the same. Well I say bring more of them on!

ThoughtsOfSpeaking · Apr 25, 2012

I personally think that the DW series and musou games in general are increasingly phoned in with each iteration. We are a a stage that the games could be given way more depth with individual a.i of each soldier becoming a threat.

I understand that there then would be concerns about difficulty but play LDK mode of devil may cry 4 and imagine that ina dynasty warriors game.

Rei no Otaku · Apr 25, 2012

I own every musou game since DW2. I love them and I'm always playing some version of them almost all the time. I never understood the hate myself, but then I just assume it's much like how I can't understand how someone would buy Madden every year. Musou games are my Madden.

Speaking of which, I just got a Vita. Probably going to buy DW Next today...

kiryogi · Apr 25, 2012

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
I personally think that the DW series and musou games in general are increasingly phoned in with each iteration. We are a a stage that the games could be given way more depth with individual a.i of each soldier becoming a threat.

I understand that there then would be concerns about difficulty but play LDK mode of devil may cry 4 and imagine that ina dynasty warriors game.

I think that's far from true for the DW series this generation. With 6 they made some drastic changes, and 7 they stepped back to what worked but still making major strides.

GhostTrick · Apr 25, 2012

I really like Dynasty Warriors. But it needs to evolve into an hybrid game. RTS + BTA.

BrLvgThrChmstry · Apr 25, 2012

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
I personally think that the DW series and musou games in general are increasingly phoned in with each iteration. We are a a stage that the games could be given way more depth with individual a.i of each soldier becoming a threat.

I loved that but due to popularity of the series, I doubt that will ever happen. It would be up to another developer to push the envelope, I feel there is definitely a lot more, in terms of gameplay variety and mechanics, that can be done with these types of games.

Alexios · Apr 25, 2012

I hadn't played any in ages (PS2, maybe), then I played Samurai Warriors 3 and found it super bland and boring, then I played Sengoku Basara 3 and thought, this is awesome, this is how it should be, if only they also combined some of the more open level/objective intentions of the Warriors games with the awesome combat and polish of Basara, then it would be perfect.

The most annoying aspect was only having different/special moves as the ending strike of a normal attack combo, with some characters only having decent moves if said combo was very long (7+ hits), while others had good moves even if the combo was very short (3-4 hits). Basara eliminated the issue, some characters are still a little bland but there are so many, and they play very differently, combining their special moves at will as you see fit is awesome. I especially liked Ieyasu who may also charge any hit, choosing to alternate between pressing and holding the buttons within a combo made the process even more involving.

Maxim726X · Apr 25, 2012

I played one (launched with the PS2, maybe?) and was bored to tears by the repetition.

I'm sure there are minor additions to each title, but the core game mechanic of 'mash this button until everything in your general vicinity is dead' isn't exactly the most enticing concept for a game.

It's just obscenely shallow compared to games like DmC, Ninja Gaiden Black, and Bayonetta.

Nocturnowl · Apr 25, 2012

I used to have dislike for these games a few years back, why I remember how great the original felt to me back at the time but then how fast the novelty wore off with the rapid fire sequels.
One of my friends kept picking them up over and over (he still does) and I just kept wondering why, what was the appeal at this point?
Around 2 years ago I just kind of got past that, I'm not even sure if I can explain how, I just kind of took it as it was, an almost cheesy action game where you kick the crap out of armies, i'm not sure how much they've actually changed over the years but I can't hate the games anymore, they deliver an enjoyable co-op experience, plenty of modes, various character variety with a good sense of progression, i'm not going to rush out and buy them myself but the disdain I once had has pretty much vanished now. They're not exactly anything to write home about and an acquired taste but they aren't really worth the scorning either bar perhaps some of the more blatantly cash grabs or half assed games (i'm thinking the portable ones here but i'm not too sure).

I will say that I thought Sengoku Basara 3 was actually pretty awesome, I liked it much more than the rest of the musou style games.

DukeTogo1300 · Apr 25, 2012

I love the old musou formula, but the last of the main series I really liked was DW5. It feels like the DW series is chasing the mainstream, while Warriors Orochi and Samurai Warriors especially are maintaining the musou formula while genuinely improving on it.

I know it is niche, I'm not surprised it isn't more popular.

J2d · Apr 25, 2012

I don't hate DW but after spending several days with 2 and 3 I just didn't find 4 and 5 doing that much for me. I liked DW2 the most though, maybe I played it wrong but it felt harder and more memorable to me.

TheYanger · Apr 25, 2012

GW2-3 were absolutely awesome and totally showed the power of the ps2 in terms of the mobs of enemies.
The series just never evolves.

That said, it's still just as fun as it always was, the problem is just that we've played it before. I think the last one I bought was 4 Empires. Franchise just gets milked WAY too much. I'd happily still play one but not if it's just the same thing as what I played 10 years ago.

J2d said:
I don't hate DW but after spending several days with 2 and 3 I just didn't find 4 and 5 doing that much for me. I liked DW2 the most though, maybe I played it wrong but it felt harder and more memorable to me.

Yeah, 2 was great and the game hasn't evolved a lot since. I give the nod to 3 for the one that really clicked for most people though, probably because of multi. No multi in 2 kills it, and these games are 10 times as tedious solo.

I should add that a LOT of the downside to these is all of the repetetive grinding involved in working up different characters. It's a bit much when the campaigns are almost the same for every character on the same side. I mean, you get REALLY efficient at each battle because you have to do them each a dozen times, THEN start working on special circuimstances to unlock weapons and shit, bleh.

Noisepurge · Apr 25, 2012

The only Musou game i like is the Fist of the North Star one, that's my guilty pleasure. The games are just too monotonous and ugly

edit: and i mean allround ugly. Gameplay is ugly, animations, sound, music, visual effects, storytelling...

RiderKairuu · Apr 25, 2012

I think alot of the hate stems from the fact that the DW games are repetitive. I love DW games for the most part but lets face it, they are repetitive. You either like those type of games or you don't. There was a point where I got tired of DW, there was only so many times I could do the Battle At Hu Lao Gate or the Yellow Turban Rebellion.

Seraphis Cain · Apr 25, 2012

Alextended said:
I hadn't played any in ages then I played Samurai Warriors 3 and found it super boring then I played Sengoku Basara 3 and thought, this is how it should be, if only they combined some of the more open aspects of the Warriors games with the awesome combat and polish of Basara.

The problem with that is at this point, Dynasty Warriors has such a huge roster of characters that making each of them just as deep as the characters in Basara would be a near impossible task. Over 70 characters just for the Dynasty Warriors series alone.

They did attempt something sorta like this with Dynasty Warriors 6, with a completely new combat system. But in doing so they removed a very large number of characters, and further made a lot of characters clones of each other. The fan backlash was MASSIVE, and they've just recently begun to repair the damage that DW6 did to the franchise by reverting back to the old combat system, albeit with a few (positive) changes.

I guess because the series has built up such a large, passionate following over the years, any substantial change to the franchise risks another DW6 fiasco, and that's the last thing Koei wants.

AdawgDaFAB · Apr 25, 2012

I think one major thing a lot of detractors overlook is the thrilling challenge these games can deliver. Some of the most intense gaming sessions I've had recently has been in DW7XL on Nightmare difficulty. They have a perk system where certain weapons can restore your health. Well Nightmare enemies can wipe you out really fast if you slip up + evil archers will slip away at your health whenever they can. So a lot of times playing on Nightmare was a constant struggle to survive by absorbing enemy health as they keep dicing away at mine. All while trying to do specific things for each stage in order to unlock special weapons. When played like this the game is anything but mindless button mashing.

Besides that, my favorite type of battles in these games are usually in the Empires spin-offs. You actually have to use strategy in those by commanding your troops properly in order to capture and maintain bases on the stage and, again on higher difficulties, the battles can really become a back and forth fight with the enemy as you try to capture more bases and also defend your current ones. I'm not trying to say these have more strategy to them than an RTS or something along those lines, but it's not just run around killing everything you see.

Also, the combat itself for the series has really evolved a lot from the early days. Many of the games have advanced gameplay functions built to facilitate crazy combo gameplay. Things like jump canceling abilities (many games), tag team switch combos (Orochi games), guard breaking / OTG lifting Spirit Dash (SW3), weapon switching (DW7), Cancel attacks (Hokuto, DW NEXT), etc...

One last aspect of the games that has been overlooked is the stories. Most of the complaints in these regards are often about how it's the same story over and over. The core story outline may be the (since it covers a historical time period), but the most recent games have done a lot to shake things up and really enhance the story telling. SW3 places a great emphasis on individual characters, the kind of relationships they have with those around them, and how it influences their lives / careers. Koei does a great job at turning these historical figures into characters with lots of personality behind them. Then you have DW7 where they upped the production levels of the story mode by turning it into a long overarching story for each of the four kingdoms that weaved the story directly into and out of battles seamlessly.

Torraz · Apr 25, 2012

I really liked gundam musou 3. Awesome short, action-filled rounds. The fist of the north star musou game was also quite fun, but much longer rounds.

S. L. · Apr 25, 2012

I love Dynasty Warriors Gundam.
I have no idea why, seriously. It's just so zen-like good.
DWG3 is the only ps3 game i ever platinumed.

BrLvgThrChmstry · Apr 25, 2012

AdawgDaFAB said:
I think one major thing a lot of detractors overlook is the thrilling challenge these games can deliver.

Um, but that's the problem. Most of us, or at least I don't see it that way. Its more like a repetitive, boring experience lacking in any real depth. Button smash heaven. These games serve a specific audience but that doesn't mean we or I don't get it, I just have no interest in them because they don't serve my 'needs' hence the disinterest in playing them. Granted there has been changes introduced to these series of games, at its core, its still the same game.

And don't get me wrong, I'm saying these games are bad. They just aren't for everyone. They really are an acquired taste.

ThoughtsOfSpeaking · Apr 25, 2012

kiryogi said:
I think that's far from true for the DW series this generation. With 6 they made some drastic changes, and 7 they stepped back to what worked but still making major strides.

Well, I will confess that I have only played up to 4 and a demo of the gundam series.

But I recently played the vita version and deleted it straight away. I just felt there is nothing interesting in the combat. All that I've seen from videos of recent entries is that they have layered fancier and fancier finishers.

These games are supposed to have a basis in real life battles, why not make the battles slightly more reallistic? Instead of carving though hundreds of enemies at a time, why not dial it down to a few dozen in each area, but make every single one of them capable of killing you. Introduce a deeper combat system with better parries, rolls etc, create a few more dial a combos and cancels, add a few more crowd control moves so people don't get stuck and balance the bosses so they aren't just the same as the grunts but more HP.

No ones asking for a full blown action game, but I feel they could learn more from classic beat them ups and action titles where the death from a single foe is within the realm of possibility.

AdawgDaFAB said:
Also, the combat itself for the series has really evolved a lot from the early days. Many of the games have advanced gameplay functions built to facilitate crazy combo gameplay. Things like jump canceling abilities (many games), tag team switch combos (Orochi games), guard breaking / OTG lifting Spirit Dash (SW3), weapon switching (DW7), Cancel attacks (Hokuto, DW NEXT), etc...

What?

YouTube examples please.

Maedhros · Apr 25, 2012

It's too lazy. Combat, visuals, story... IMO, they're all bad as hell.

I just ignore this series exists.

TheYanger · Apr 25, 2012

BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Um, but that's the problem. Most of us, or at least I don't see it that way. Its more like a repetitive, boring experience lacking in any real depth. Button smash heaven. These games serve a specific audience but that doesn't mean we or I don't get it, I just have no interest in them because they don't serve my 'needs' hence the disinterest in playing them

That's his point though, unless you're playing on the highest difficulties you haven't really seen them. The games can definitely be hard and button mashing will end you. Default/normal difficulties don't challenge you enough for you to need to master the combat/ai/anything.

kiryogi · Apr 25, 2012

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Well, I will confess that I have only played up to 4 and a demo of the gundam series.

But I recently played the vita version and deleted it straight away. I just felt there is nothing interesting in the combat. All that I've seen from videos of recent entries is that they have layered fancier and fancier finishers.

These games are supposed to have a basis in real life battles, why not make the battles slightly more reallistic? Instead of carving though hundreds of enemies at a time, why not dial it down to a few dozen in each area, but make every single one of them capable of killing you. Introduce a deeper combat system with better parries, rolls etc, create a few more dial a combos and cancels, add a few more crowd control moves so people don't get stuck and balance the bosses so they aren't just the same as the grunts but more HP.

No ones asking for a full blown action game, but I feel they could learn more from classic beat them ups and action titles where the death from a single foe is within the realm of possibility.

As awesome as an idea as that'd be. . . That sort of defeats the whole purpose and spirit of the name of the series. (Musou)

Musou or Muso (無双 musō?) is a Japanese word that means The Only One, or Without Equal.

michaelius · Apr 25, 2012

Seraphis Cain said:
(Note: Although I only specifically address Dynasty Warriors in this thread, I'm also talking about it's spin-offs Samurai Warriors and Warriors Orochi, as well as the Gundam series.)

As a huge Dynasty Warriors fan, it pains me to so often hear the series referred to as absolute garbage, the worst of the worst, etc. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the series. But I'll be the first to admit that it's not an AAA franchise, or an AA franchise, or even an A franchise. It's firmly rooted in the B-tier category of games. But it just absolutely baffles me when people treat the series the same way they treat licensed movie games and Gameloft shovelware. I mean, if the series were such garbage, why then does it have such a passionate fanbase not just in Japan, where it regularly tops sales charts, but all around the world? I often hear the complaint that the series is just rehash after rehash, but I strongly suspect that the people saying this are basing their stance off of the low scores most Western review outlets (with the exception of Jim Sterling from Destructoid) give the series, and haven't actually played a Warriors game since DW2 or DW3.

But the series HAS changed and evolved over time. Sure, it's still essentially the same sort of battlefield action game it always was, but then Call of Duty is still the same FPS it always was, Assassin's Creed is still the same open world action adventure game it always was, Street Fighter is still the same one on one fighting game it always was. But all of these series have changed and evolved over time. Just like Dynasty Warriors. From the perspective of a fan, the difference between Dynasty Warriors 2 and Dynasty Warriors 7 is the same as the difference between say, Tekken and Tekken 6.

So GAF, why do you dislike Dynasty Warriors so strongly? What's wrong with it, what makes it such a terrible franchise, and what would have to be done to get you to play it? Oh, and just to satisfy my curiosity, when was the last time you played one?

Altrough i shouldn't post as I don't hate it

If i wanted to buy best DW games right now - it would be DW 7 and Gundam Musou 3 ?

BrLvgThrChmstry · Apr 25, 2012

TheYanger said:
That's his point though, unless you're playing on the highest difficulties you haven't really seen them. The games can definitely be hard and button mashing will end you. Default/normal difficulties don't challenge you enough for you to need to master the combat/ai/anything.

Dude, that's all subjective. I find them to be incredibly lacking in the "challenge" department. And even then, the POINT that the people whom are expressing why don't like the series is because of the repetitive nature of them. You're simply plowing through "rooms" or "areas" of enemies. Whether or not you make it more difficult isn't going to change that. That's the core of these games and that's what I and some folks find unappealing.

Seraphis Cain · Apr 25, 2012

BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Um, but that's the problem. Most of us, or at least I don't see it that way. Its more like a repetitive, boring experience lacking in any real depth. Button smash heaven. These games serve a specific audience but that doesn't mean we or I don't get it, I just have no interest in them because they don't serve my 'needs' hence the disinterest in playing them

Have you tried looking for the depth? That's the thing, you're only taking the game at face value. If I had only taken Bayonetta at face value (which, admittedly, I did, the first time I played it), I wouldn't have seen anything special about it. But I gave it another go a few months later, and really looked for the depth, and I ended up falling in love with it. Granted, the depth in Bayonetta is much more evident than the depth in Dynasty Warriors, and of course Bayonetta is just deeper on the whole than DW. I'm not trying to compare the two, believe me. There's really no comparison. But there is depth to DW, even if it's not immediately evident.

BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Dude, that's all subjective. I find them to be incredibly lacking in the "challenge" department.

HAVE you played on the highest difficulties?

michaelius said:
Altrough i shouldn't post as I don't hate it
If i wanted to buy best DW games right now - it would be DW 7 and Gundam Musou 3 ?

Warriors Orochi 3 just came out, and it's the best Musou game ever, pretty much. Gundam 3 is good, but personally I prefer Gundam 2. Not that there's anything majorly wrong with 3, just personal preference. But yeah, get WO3.

Tizoc · Apr 25, 2012

The Warriors/Musou series become a complete different game when played on the harder difficulties.
Play Gundam Musou 3, for example, on Normal, then try playing on Hard, the difference can be like night and day.

Dyansty Warriors 7 XL is another good exmaple: Play it on Normal and Hard, then try it out on Chaos and Nightmare. The game goes from being a 'defeat as many as you want/can then beat the stage' to 'survive the dozens of soldiers and their generals who can knock off half your health in mere seconds'.

Kong Fisso · Apr 25, 2012

Completed DW5 and Samurai Warriors 2: Xtreme or whatever it's called.

I ONLY played them because developers, back in the ps2 days, couldn't grasp the concept that we want coop hack and slash / loot games on our consoles. Of course we do! They were good time wasters, but also very repetitive and mashy.

ThoughtsOfSpeaking · Apr 25, 2012

kiryogi said:
As awesome as an idea as that'd be. . . That sort of defeats the whole purpose and spirit of the name of the series. (Musou)

"One without equal" does not mean one that is nigh invincible.

You might be the strongest one on the battlefield, but hours of fighting people a quarter as weak as you can wear you down and kill you.

The problem with these games is for some of them, it feels like you could look away from the screen and just rhythmically tap the attack button and still clear the area.

TheYanger · Apr 25, 2012

BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Dude, that's all subjective. I find them to be incredibly lacking in the "challenge" department.

Difficulty is subjective, but when you talk about running in and buttonmashing hordes of dudes to the face it is FAIRLY apparent that you are not trying to get all the games offer in that department. Trying to be a badass and saying you're better at games is one thing, but that's like saying "I'm so good at mario, I just run INTO the first goomba and he dies". You simply can't play it like that and win, so no, that part is completely objective.

Alexios · Apr 25, 2012

Seraphis Cain said:
The problem with that is at this point, Dynasty Warriors has such a huge roster of characters that making each of them just as deep as the characters in Basara would be a near impossible task. Over 70 characters just for the Dynasty Warriors series alone.

I don't know about that, I don't think Basara actually has more moves overall, you just activate them differently, not after long, repetitive normal attack combos but with simple button combinations you can do at any time. Most also use the same combinations iirc but you use them in different ways because of the effects they have on the enemies and how you want to proceed. Either way, at this point they could just start with say, 20 of their most popular characters to ensure good sales and add the rest over time as DLC/expansions... Didn't Basara also reduce the cast for 3, which led to that expandalone release (I don't know, it was my first, it also really impressed me that it was such a good port on the lowly Wii, looking much slicker than Samurai Warriors 3 did)?

truly101 · Apr 25, 2012

I enjoy the warriors games but I can't buy them every year, they just aren't worth it. Best to skip a year or two. For example I loved 5, heard 6 sucked so skipped it, bought 7, loved, have no interest in Xtreme Legends. WO3 is fun too but I don't buy the Samurai games.

AdawgDaFAB · Apr 25, 2012

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
What?

YouTube examples please.

There is more to it than just this, but here is an example of from DW7 I found off a quick search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJml8hra83I

A lot of the games have an item you can equip that lets you jump cancel any charge attack you do. Other games have it as a perk certain weapons (like in DW7) or characters can do. In the Orochi games you have this + the tag system that can be used to jump back and forth between characters and pull off large combos that way.

Drencrom · Apr 25, 2012

Really like the Gundam ones. Playing splitscreen with a friend and blowing shit up in your favourite gundams is awesome.

TheYanger · Apr 25, 2012

Watching that video also reminded me. These games also have completely badass music.

BrLvgThrChmstry · Apr 25, 2012

Seraphis Cain said:
Have you tried looking for the depth? That's the thing, you're only taking the game at face value. If I had only taken Bayonetta at face value (which, admittedly, I did, the first time I played it), I wouldn't have seen anything special about it. But I gave it another go a few months later, and really looked for the depth, and I ended up falling in love with it. Granted, the depth in Bayonetta is much more evident than the depth in Dynasty Warriors, and of course Bayonetta is just deeper on the whole than DW. I'm not trying to compare the two, believe me. There's really no comparison. But there is depth to DW, even if it's not immediately evident.

Look, you made a thread asking for our opinions on the series. I respect yours and I acknowledge what these games have to offer and that's it. I PERSONALLY find them to be incredibly shallow both above and below the surface, they offer nothing substantial in terms of variety and I find the core mechanics and general gameplay boring and new additions (to gameplay) only pander to the fans and do little to appeal to people not fond of DW etc. to begin with. This is what I gathered from my experience playing the series, I've played on the harder difficulties so spare me the lecture.

TheYanger said:
Difficulty is subjective, but when you talk about running in and buttonmashing hordes of dudes to the face it is FAIRLY apparent that you are not trying to get all the games offer in that department. Trying to be a badass and saying you're better at games is one thing, but that's like saying "I'm so good at mario, I just run INTO the first goomba and he dies". You simply can't play it like that and win, so no, that part is completely objective.

Read above. Also:

You're simply plowing through "rooms" or "areas" containing enemies and occasionally bosses. Whether or not you make it more difficult isn't going to change that. That's the core of these games and that's what I and some folks find unappealing.

Has this changed any? am I wrong in this regard?

Nocturnowl · Apr 25, 2012

TheYanger said:
Watching that video also reminded me. These games also have completely badass music.

This reminds me, I always found the oddly upbeat guitar jingle upon death kind of hilarious in dynasty warriors.

ThoughtsOfSpeaking · Apr 25, 2012

AdawgDaFAB said:
There is more to it than just this, but here is an example of from DW7 I found off a quick search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJml8hra83I

A lot of the games have an item you can equip that lets you jump cancel any charge attack you do. Other games have it as a perk certain weapons (like in DW7) or characters can do. In the Orochi games you have this + the tag system that can be used to jump back and forth between characters and pull off large combos that way.

I see. Looks cool.

That said, that video just highlighted exactly what's wrong with DW in the eyes of detractors.

Take a look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-NJ-LbqCNE

See the difference?

TheYanger · Apr 25, 2012

BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Has this change any? am I wrong?

If your definition of 'plowing through' is 'playing carefully and managing your offense and defense against the clock' then you're right. On the other hand that statement reads to me as simply being intentionally simplistic.

Half Life 2 is a game about walking around shooting tons of dudes.
Mario is a game about running and jumping.
Final Fantasy is a game where people talk and you hit X a lot.

See how stupid it sounds now?

Yes it's a game where you walk around and kill tons of dudes and have boss battles interspersed. Fucking obviously. That doesn't say anything about the depth of play or how fun or not fun it is, despite what you're trying to push.

For the record, I don't think anyone is trying to say Dynasty Warriors is some masterwork series where every moment is a life or death struggle. This shit isn't Ninja Gaiden on Master Ninja mode, it's not THAT hard, but it's certainly difficult and you will need to master the gameplay systems at work in order to succeed on higher difficulties. You get out what you put into them. They have their flaws, but the inherant notion that 'oh you kill hundreds of guys, MUST BE BAD' is fucking stupid.

Seraphis Cain · Apr 25, 2012

TheYanger said:
Watching that video also reminded me. These games also have completely badass music.

Best song in the entire series, right there.

BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Look, you made a thread asking for our opinions on the series. I respect yours and I acknowledge what these games have to offer and that's it. I PERSONALLY find them to be incredibly shallow both above and below the surface, they offer nothing substantial in terms of variety and I find the core mechanics and general gameplay boring. This is what I gathered from my experience playing the series, I've played on the harder difficulties so spare me the lecture.

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to change your opinion or force you to play the games. I was merely presenting a counter-argument.

chickdigger802 · Apr 25, 2012

Why I don't like about them is the 'feel'. Movement feels weird. The weight behind hitting and getting hit feels weird. Camera feels weird.

And a question that's never really addressed anywhere. Is there an ongoing narrative from game 1- w/e it's on now? Is it remotely tied to anything to the original source material?

AdawgDaFAB · Apr 25, 2012

ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
No ones asking for a full blown action game, but I feel they could learn more from classic beat them ups and action titles where the death from a single foe is within the realm of possibility.

On the highest difficulties the games actually are all like this. A small group of peons can run up and kill you instantly if you aren't careful. Also, enemies will juggle you to death while said peons poke and shoot away at you.

cuevas. PhD. · Apr 25, 2012

I loved dynasty warriors 3, the first day I got it my cousin and I spent a whole day mashing our way through it. Then they kept releasing the same game

TheYanger · Apr 25, 2012

chickdigger802 said:
Why I don't like about them is the 'feel'. Movement feels weird. The weight behind hitting and getting hit feels weird. Camera feels weird.

And a question that's never really addressed anywhere. Is there an ongoing narrative from game 1- w/e it's on now? Is it remotely tied to anything to the original source material?

I haven't played the newer ones, but the older ones were all BASICALLY faithful to the original events/novel. Same story in every game, though the maps are different, dialogue etc, and they tend to have a lot of different small skirmishes in each game, but the major battles are always there (Things like Battle at Chi Bi that always has tons of ships, always has the wind or the fog or whatever rolling in if you don't stop the spell from being cast, etc).

I highly recommend anyone read the source material, it's engaging and it makes the games easy to follow. Long, but so what. I read it over the course of a year back in high school and felt much more informed because of it.

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Dynasty Warriors: Why the hate, GAF?

bad gameplay lol

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Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!

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bad gameplay lol

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bad gameplay lol

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Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!

I got grudge sucked!

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bad gameplay lol

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