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Criterion Collection Blu-ray titles are going "bad".

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D

Downhome

Member
***WARNING: Even if your discs from the mentioned time period below look fine, with no bronzing, they could still be defective. The only way to know for sure is to scan the entire disc. Please see my "Edit 2" for more information on this.***

I posted this in the community thread but I'm gonna post it here to see if any of you have ever seen this with ANY Blu-ray before. This is way, way, way too early to be happening already. This is ridiculous.

Guys, it's time to bust our your older Criterion Collection Blu-ray titles and check on them to see if they still work or not. I am beyond pissed off at this. Earlier tonight I saw some people mentioning that certain titles from late 2009 to mid 2010 are already going bad. It's some sort of weird production screwup that is causing a browning/bronzing across the disc that either causes skipping, screwing up entire chapters, or just flat out kills the discs entirely, preventing them from even loading at all.

I hate to say that I have horrible news. I just went through all of my titles and I found six that have noticeable browning/bronzing.

The titles included here are from my personal collection, and these are the ones I have found so far that are afflicted with this issue. The titles are...

-M (2010, first printing)
-Monsoon Wedding (2009, first printing)
-Paris, Texas (2009, first printing)
-Summer Hours (2010, first printing)
-Walkabout (2010, first printing)

None of the above titles will load in any Blu-ray player that I own. They are all completely and totally dead Blu-ray discs now. My copy of Days of Heaven (2010, first printing) also has the the browning/bronzing effect that is starting to show up, but as of right now that disc will still load in my player and I can fast forward through the entire movie.

What are the others that I need to check? I discovered the above only by doing a quick visual inspection. I haven't tested any other titles without noticeable browning/bronzing. Have any of you guys had any that didn't work but did not have a physical flaw?

I am beyond ticked off about this. I have five titles that flat out no longer load, one that is likely going to end up like this, and who knows on some of the other titles I have. I have tons of Criterion discs, and this is incredibly worrying to me.

In addition to the ones I mentioned above, some of the other titles mentioned with this problem are Howards End, Pierrot le fou, Ride With the Devil, and Stagecoach. This is even more damaging for Howards End and Pierrot le fou since those are now totally out of print (OOP).

Here are some pictures I took of the ones that will no longer play...

5rMxHlW.jpg


adJnOKn.jpg


YcNQdSz.jpg


KjeXcIh.jpg


RnULqgi.jpg


5Pa3GDl.jpg


EDIT 1:

Here is a list put together by someone of all of the discs released during the window in question. This does not mean that all of these are bad, or other titles couldn't also be affected. It's just for reference...

Discs already noted to have issues are starred with an asterisk (*):


*Stagecoach (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010

By Brakhage: An Anthology, Volumes One and Two (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010

*Walkabout (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 18, 2010

*M (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 11, 2010

*Ride with the Devil (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 27, 2010

Vivre Sa Vie (My Life to Live / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010

*Summer Hours (L'heure d'été / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010

*Days of Heaven (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Yojimbo (Yôjinbô / 用心棒 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Sanjuro (Tsubaki Sanjûrô / 椿三十郎 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Yojimbo / Sanjuro (用心棒 / 椿三十郎 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Bigger Than Life (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010

Lola Montès (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

Hunger (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

Revanche (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010

*Paris, Texas (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 26, 2010

Che (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 19, 2010

8½ (Federico Fellini's 8½ / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 12, 2010

A Christmas Tale (Un conte de Noël / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009

Gimme Shelter (The Rolling Stones / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009

Gomorrah (The Criterion Collection / Gomorra) Criterion Nov 24, 2009

*Howards End (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009

Wings of Desire (Der Himmel über Berlin / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009

*Monsoon Wedding (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Oct 20, 2009

The Complete Monterey Pop Festival (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

*Pierrot le fou (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

Monterey Pop (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

Jimi Plays Monterey & Shake! Otis at Monterey (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009

EDIT 2:

Ok, it's official, my Gomorrah is screwed up as well!!!

The disc doesn't have any visual flaws at all, no bronzing whatsoever. The disc also loads just fine, the menu comes up, and it starts to play. I tested it by letting it play for a few minutes, and when I had no issues I hit the fast forward button for a while. I watched closely and noticed it would freeze for a couple of seconds and my machine would make a weird noise. I would rewind back, play around where it would stall, and sure enough it freezes and skips that entire section. This seems to be happening at a number of times on my disc.

I'm not going to go through each one minute by minute just to test them, but if it happens a single time on any of the discs in this time period then I'm requesting a replacement for them.

This is flat out ridiculous, ugh.

Why does this have to be Criterion? Out of all of the companies this could happen to, why them?
 
E

Extra Sauce

Member
Holy shit. Criterion discs are expensive, too.

I own a lot of blu-rays but I almost always buy them on the cheap, so no Criterion for me. Still, that is very disturbing news. I did not even know that blu-ray discs could go bad before now.
 
kyoya

kyoya

Member
Really glad I didn't end up buying that "House" blu-ray, watching Kung-Fu be cool is gonna have to wait :(
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Holy shit. Criterion releases are usually top notch, what a shame.

Is this just an isolated screwup? I only recently started collecting so my Criterions are only from the last 2-3 years, but hopefully those don't all go bad in the future.
 
M

mojiimbo

Member
No reason to freak out until they tell you to fuck off. In the past they've seemed to be pretty accommodating even for petty things like bent inserts or damaged cases so I can't imagine that they wouldn't replace these for you.

(Yeah, the out of print stuff is a concern but they might still have a small amount of those in their closet somewhere, I guess.)
 
P

Pachinko

Member
Does OP live on the coast or an otherwise humid environment ? I didn't even realize blurays were still susceptible to disc rot. I've got dvds that are well past a decade in age that still work fine but I live in a dry region. Not sure how much that has to do with it but I was under the assumption that disc rot was largely caused by oxidization of the metal within the data layer - oxidization being caused by the polymer coating getting microscopic holes and letting in a little bit of air and moisture which , well, leads to the discoloration and degradation of the data within.

Whatever that case may be, that sucks to have happen. Perhaps you can e-mail criterion support and obtain replacement discs somehow ? It's worth a shot , perhaps there IS an issue and they aren't yet aware of it ?
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
It seems to be isolated to the batches of titles mentioned above that were released in a somewhat similar time period. Wouldn't worry about it too much outside of Pierrot Le Fou, Criterion will replace them. These titles are ones that have had an issue since 2010(I had to replace 2 copies of Walkabout), and they replaced them then.

mulvaney@criterion.com is the email for their detective discs/packaging help. He apparently hasn't been responding in the past week or two, it's likely they're preparing a mass trade-in/replacement program.

Good (unofficial) forum to keep track of responses. I have all of those outside of Summer Hours, so it's a bit of a bummer. It will be taken care of though.
 
T

Thug Waffle

Member
Dude, fuck. Thank God I have a poor person's collection and haven't invested much in the CC yet.

Have you received any word from Criterion regarding whether or not they will replace your disks?
 
F

Fudgepuppy

Banned
Just went and checked on my oldest Blu-ray of Watchmen, no problems there.

How the hell can Criterion be the first ones to rot? :S
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
It is an isolated issue, read through the forum link above. Issues first started at release, their earliest blu-rays and many others released around the same time period have no issues.
 
E

Extra Sauce

Member
Pachinko said:
Does OP live on the coast or an otherwise humid environment ? I didn't even realize blurays were still susceptible to disc rot. I've got dvds that are well past a decade in age that still work fine but I live in a dry region. Not sure how much that has to do with it but I was under the assumption that disc rot was largely caused by oxidization of the metal within the data layer - oxidization being caused by the polymer coating getting microscopic holes and letting in a little bit of air and moisture which , well, leads to the discoloration and degradation of the data within.
Click to expand...

Welp, sounds like my blu-ray collection is doomed. I live in the humid island known as Montreal.

Vire said:
Embrace your digital future overlords.
Click to expand...

luke-skywalker.gif
 
N

nilbog21

Banned
That's not good to hear.

But knowing criterion if this is true they will surely trade it in for a new or repaired copy

Time to back mine up..
 
K

-Kees-

Member
Checked a few of mine from 2010-11. None of them appeared to have it and they played fine. They are :

Solaris
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
Blow Out
The Killing
Paths of Glory
Sweet Smell of Success
 
O

overcast

Member
Fjordson said:
Is this just an isolated screwup? I only recently started collecting so my Criterions are only from the last 2-3 years, but hopefully those don't all go bad in the future.
Click to expand...
Yeah.. I have this decent and growing collection, so I hope it doesn't happen.
 
D

Death Metalist

Member
Holy shit, that's scary. Thankfully, I started getting into Criterion in 2012 - 2013. Unless all the movies they shipped out in 2009 - 2010 are going to be busted then shit, I'll have to check lol.
 
D

Downhome

Member
Yes, this is apparently from the batch of discs from late 2009 to mid 2010. It also seems to be a problem with the first print run of these discs. To know if you have the fist printing just look on the back of the case and over on the right in small print you'll see where it says the year and the print you have.

I shot them an email so we'll see what they say and do for me. Over the years they have always done right by me, but there have been reports of them totally ignoring emails on this issue for the last month or so. I hope it's just that they are scrambling trying to figure out a replacement program and not them hoping that it just goes away. That certainly doesn't seem like something they would do, but this seems like a pretty big problem for them on these discs from back then.

I also hope that a year from now we don't start seeing reports of discs released in late 2010 to mid 2011 having the same problem. Perhaps lots of titles from a certain replication plant or something like that. If they kept using the same place after these were produced, this could end up being a very big deal for them.
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
I have 120 Criterion blu-rays, many of which are from 2008/2009, nothing to do with the age of the disks. It is an isolated issue to the batch of titles listed above and in the forum thread I linked. No need to freak out, and since early this year Sony now distributes Criterion's blu-rays so they have a consistent manufacturer.

Downhome said:
Yes, this is apparently from the batch of discs from late 2009 to mid 2010. It also seems to be a problem with the first print run of these discs. To know if you have the fist printing just look on the back of the case and over on the right in small print you'll see where it says the year and the print you have.

I shot them an email so we'll see what they say and do for me. Over the years they have always done right by me, but there have been reports of them totally ignoring emails on this issue for the last month or so. I hope it's just that they are scrambling trying to figure out a replacement program and not them hoping that it just goes away. That certainly doesn't seem like something they would do, but this seems like a pretty big problem for them on these discs from back then.

I also hope that a year from now we don't start seeing reports of discs released in late 2010 to mid 2011 having the same problem.
Click to expand...
Imagine the scale of the replacement will be quite large, these disks have always had issues but it's just in the past few months that they've finally hit every copy. My Stagecoach blu-ray is fine, so hopefully it will be spared :p I had two copies of Walkabout that had huge dents pressed into the disk.
 
D

Downhome

Member
Also, surely other companies used the same replication plant in the same time period. I'd love to know who else used them. If they screwed up on these Criterion titles then there could very easily be other titles out there from other companies with the same issue.

ricochetguro said:
Imagine the scale of the replacement will be quite large, these disks have always had issues but it's just in the past few months that they've finally hit every copy. My Stagecoach blu-ray is fine, so hopefully it will be spared :p I had two copies of Walkabout that had huge dents pressed into the disk.
Click to expand...

I love the Criterion company. They are likely my favorite in the business and I really support them. I hate having to complain, and I hate seeing this cost them a bunch of money, but we really have no choice. This isn't the sort of thing I can just drop and let go, even though I know it will hurt them. It sucks, but that's just the way things go sometimes.
 
U

User 479360

Banned
Sorry to hear about this, OP. As someone who used to collect DVDs obsessively, and constantly worried about their shape (I'd return sets if I found a flaw in their slipcovers), I understand how much people care about their collections. I bought some Criterion Hitchcock sets for too much money, but I was collecting his stuff specifically.

I stopped buying movies, though, because I'd rarely watch them and so many are still in their original packaging. And now DVDs are useless and worthless, so I cringe when I think back.

This isn't likely to happen to video game discs is it?
 
D

Dragoon En Regalia

Member
Ugh. I have Paris, Texas out of those titles you listed...time to give it an appraisal. It seems this can all be tied to a manufacturing goof, but losing this version of Pierrot Le Fou to time and StudioCanal is damning. Going to wait patiently for their answer at the Wexner talks.
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
Downhome said:
I love the Criterion company. They are likely my favorite in the business and I really support them. I hate having to complain, and I hate seeing this cost them a bunch of money, but we really have no choice. This isn't the sort of thing I can just drop and let go, even though I know it will hurt them. It sucks, but that's just the way things go sometimes.
Click to expand...
Of course, I was saying it more in response to some of the others who seem to think this is a widespread issue across their collection/blu-rays in general. As this thread shows, it's limited to first pressings of a few titles. Many of which have were replaced near the release. It's just clear that the issue has become more widespread at this point, as more people read about it and realize what has been happening. I know I just watched m earlier this year and now it's completely browned. Wexner talk is Oct 14th, and if for some reason it hasn't been responded to by then it would certainly be discussed there.
 
D

Downhome

Member
Yep, I have watched all of mine in the past and they worked just fine, but not anymore.

This really, really sucks for the OOP titles. There is no way they have enough of them to issue replacement to everyone, if they still have any extras at all.

I had a brand new and sealed Pierrot le fou that I sold a few months ago. I really hope that it ended up being just fine for the buyer. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I paid for an OOP title like that and then it was defective and there just wasn't anything that could really be done about it anymore. Ugh.
 
C

Chance Hale

Member
I had two copies of the Man Who Fell to Earth and I sold one of them on ebay earlier this year for 160 dollars. Thank goodness it isn't one of the affected titles lol. It was one of their first blu-rays though, so it's just another point to show it isn't an age issue.

My copy of Pierrot Le Fou is fine for what it's worth. Whereas I have issues with every title you listed aside from Stagecoach.
ibgsFVIhcmhl8N.jpg
Click to expand...

Edit: To be clear given the image below, there is no browning. Different lighting conditions.
 
T

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
goodcow said:
The only DVD I've ever had suffer from disc rot was Tomorrow Never Dies.
Click to expand...

I had several hundred DVDs and the only rot was on Contact.
I have over 1,100 Blus. All fine so far, even the Criterions. (just checked)

I live on a coast, but it's far from humid here.

Snaku said:
Oh shit, I wonder if my Vudu collection is going bad!? Oh wait...
Click to expand...

Meh.
I have the option of buying HDX for $1 each for almost my whole collection, but while it's good by streaming standards let's not pretend that Vudu is on the level of Blu-ray. Believe me though, I know what it looks and sounds like. I have 200 movies in my account, mostly from codes.
Oh, and I "upgraded" my DVD of They Live before the Blu-ray was announced and it's the wrong aspect ratio on Vudu.
 
D

Downhome

Member
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
I wonder if my copy of the third man is ok, I don't remember when that came out.
Click to expand...

When I first realized this issue the very first thing I did was check my Third Man disc! Even though I watch it every now and then, and did just a couple months ago, I still went to check it. It may be my favorite Blu-ray disc of them all, and I'd have been crushed if that one was affected with this crap.

I'm glad this is apparently just for a little period of time from late 2009 to mid 2010.
 
B

blainethemono

Member
checked my Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, Sanjuro, Kagemusha, and The Night of the Hunter and they all look okay. Not sure what else I have that released during that period though
 
D

Downhome

Member
In person it's even more evident as well. When you actually see it in front of you there is no question on the difference between a normal BD and then one with this issue. It's quite jarring.
 
S

Sera O

Banned
Oh shit, this is kind of a nightmare. I have a bunch of stuff released during that period and I am really dreading checking for this.
 
Z

Zaraki_Kenpachi

Member
Downhome said:
When I first realized this issue the very first thing I did was check my Third Man disc! Even though I watch it every now and then, and did just a couple months ago, I still went to check it. It may be my favorite Blu-ray disc of them all, and I'd have been crushed if that one was affected with this crap.

I'm glad this is apparently just for a little period of time from late 2009 to mid 2010.
Click to expand...
Thank god. I left mine at my parents house so I couldn't check right now but I love that movie. With how obnoxiously expensive it is now I'd be crushed if it was damaged.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Reminds me of that disc rot thing that hits CD's sometimes.
I've gone through my PS1 games and I found 1 demo disc with problems despite the fact that it hasn't been touched in almost a decade.

DiscRotExampleAbove.jpg
Click to expand...
 
M

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I live in an extremely humid city, and I've got a big stack of '09-'10 Criterion discs. Luckily they all look okay and they play. Guess I should check regularly if Criterion says they'll offer replacements for duds.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
wtf i just checked my copy of Monsoon Wedding Criterion Blu-ray is fucked too. I haven't watched that shit in ages
 
D

dekline

Member
My disc copy of the seventh seal seems fine.

I have benjamin button, seven samurai, naked lunch, and yojimbo/sanjuro still yet unopened.
 
N

Namikaze

Member
This is the first I've heard of Blu Rays rotting in general. Should I be concerned about my physical collection moving forward?
 
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