The increase of voices is ultimately a good thing; you just have to be smart about judging what you consume.
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I now understand why some of you have become a bit cynical towards games media.
- Thread starter hwy_61
- Start date
The increase of voices is ultimately a good thing; you just have to be smart about judging what you consume.
deranged_666
Member
I just think the phrasing "You will buy this system for this one game" is ridiculous. I would think, or hope, that most consumers wouldn't spend $500 on a console for one reason, be it one game or one feature. To me, that goes above and beyond merely hyping a game, it's a ridiculous and flat-out wrong statement.
And that goes for anything, not just the XB1 and Titanfall. No matter how good a game is, you cannot possibly try and justify that statement and then say it's an accurate one.
And that goes for anything, not just the XB1 and Titanfall. No matter how good a game is, you cannot possibly try and justify that statement and then say it's an accurate one.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Conspiracy.jpg
Yep I hardly ever go on "gaming media" sites anymore for anything but videos and images because all they do is exaggerate and gush about games pre-release and then give shitty incoherent reviews later. There is no balance,no honesty, no skill, no true knowledge of games anymore in the gaming media. So many reviews make me question how much time they even spent with the game, often times they don't even bother learning the controls first.There is almost no reliability anymore since every site has their own agenda and each reviewer can't seem to keep their own personal biases out of their reviews. Everyone wants clicks no matter how they get them. They aim for entertaining instead of being informative and on top of that they are always asking softball interview questions. The gaming media is most certainly not the voice of the gamers themselves and way better analysis and information is coming from Youtube channels and discussion boards like this.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
My advice is check out smaller reputable sites or blogs. They're less likely to be disguised PR pieces.
TheSpoiler
Member
The definition of "journalist" has always been large. Columnist, for example, aren't always people who graduated with a BA in Journalism.
Having an education doesn't mean shit beyond the credit. People will be assholes if they were assholes prior to writing. Starting your own website, blog, or youtube channel is great so long as you don't fall prey to the stupidity that some major sites reach.
EmptySpace
Banned
lol sessler's gta5.
and who could forget ign's "my hands were shaking as i held the controller" for gta5 as well? just lol.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Don't do this. Being contrarian for its own sake is far more destructive in a discussion than "mob mentality". Forums don't need balance, they need honest opinions. If you honestly disagree with a consensus opinion, then by all means argue against it. But if you're arguing for a perspective that you don't fully agree with or understand, then you are almost guaranteed to say something contradictory, illogical and/or stupid, and then no one knows whether you're trolling or being an idiot or what.
Just say what you really believe, whether it's part of the "mob" or not.
APeacefulPanda
Neo Member
I definitely agree. Previews are the hardest thing to do, and I honestly really dislike doing them (most people feel the opposite). It's really easy to say, "well, why didn't you point this out, or ask the developer about this, or why were you so positive about that?" But mad respect for people that can actually do that.
I totally get giving Batman: Arkham Origins a 3.5/10, since it had (and many of these are still in the game) game breaking bugs and was for all intents and purposes a weaker rehash of Arkham City. I enjoyed it a bit more than that score, but I absolutely understand where the lower scores were coming from. It was a cash-in.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Lol yea, this reminds me of when some reports came in for the Dualshock 4 saying that it felt like touching boobs for the first time ever. Like wtf?
no, the bit where we unfolded a massive web of dodgy PR/reviewer relationships where they're best friends and get free games and their games company PR buddies got them their jobs in games journalism and how much they owe them and have to repay them and how their entire career as games writers hinges on the early access to game they're are given which is controlled by their PR besties.
you can go through the topic and read it all evidenced in their own words before you go crying conspiracy
Game breaking bugs, I understand, but it was a decent game (didn't run into any myself). Aren't all CoD and FIFA games rehashes, too?
EmptySpace
Banned
don't take reviews seriously. go to the ot and read the players' impressions, not from some internet celebrity.
Iorv3th
Member
No. Thats the job of a PR department and marketing. A review/preview doesn't have to be so exaggerated and filled with fantasy. Just tell us about the game without the stupid rhetoric. Tell us how it plays, what other games it might remind us of, if it's fun.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
CBS isn't a bastion of good internet previews.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/techknowbytes/2013/12/29/ces-chief-gary-shapiro-cbs-tried-to-bring-me-down-after-dish-controversy/12554/
It is a business, which is why I'm mostly cynical about game reviews and previews.
I agree with lorv3th above me. Stop trying to do too much and just tell us how it plays. I never understood the hype for titanfall besides the fact it had EA and Microsoft behind it.
Well I don't really consider the majority game's journalism "journalism," there is a difference between a journalist and a critic. A journalist investigates and reports on stories, a critic evaluates whatever piece of work he is given and offers his own, ideally experienced and educated, opinion. In the game's the two essentially mesh together, people "report" on games and offer criticism through previews and reviews however neither is done very well. And with the advent of the internet educated critique especially on mainstream sites become less and less.
But, this is not unique to the games industry as the same problem can been seen in almost all aspects of "journalism" but really the closest analogue to games are of course movies. Accordingly, how many movie reviewers do you honestly respect and hold in high regards? And, in films reporting is almost non-existent has creators want to keep as much of the film secret before release.
For news I always use the following ones in order,
- Neogaf
- Massively Joystiq
- Kotaku
- Polygon
- Stepawolf
- 2p.com
For criticism,
- Neogaf
- Forbes
- Massively Joystiq
- Angry Joe
Anyway more to the point, you do not have to be a cynic or cynical to see the hyperbole with games media. There are far too many cases signaling how the big players of game journalism have been bribed, bought, and tempered with. I will not recreate past cases and go on a name calling because the past is past. Most of them these days make an effort to appear "alternative/indie" in a sort of sign to say that they are starting or going to start to "behave".
Still the overhyperia norm will never cease to exist because like the other thread suggests, media does create sales. Though media is not as powerful as it used to be and its web is significantly smaller therefore each year less and less flies (unaware consumers) get caught because right now in terms of independent journalism or journalism with integrity, we are in a good shape.
We have got far too many alternative resources to make our minds for a game.
This whole alpha access, beta signing, beta restrictions (public or inclusive, one week or two weeks period) is boring. Just give the public a two hour demo to get a complete impression of the game and then do the rest. Errors, glitches, bugs, and so on and so forth are easily fixed with patches. If the gameplay and storyline are not captivating enough they will hold no big playerbase anymore.
The era of fanboyism is deteriorating anyhow because more and more choices appear as time moves on.
Sanctuary
Member
It's not that all gaming journalism is worthless anymore, but you just have to learn for yourself who you can trust now. Sites like IGN, Gamespot (Kevin is *mostly* trustworthy and the only reviewer that matters there) and GI tend to use as much hyperbole as GAF at times. So much so that it more than often feels moneyhatted.
Just find sites that end up giving scores to games that coincide with your own tastes, or do what I do and just read many reviews for the information about the game, and look at the average critic score from Gamerankings.com. Metacritic is shit for average scores, and unfortunately it's really popular.
Mr. Luchador
Member
My own perception is that at some point over the last decade Gaming Press went from being a career where someone remained impartial and wrote a critique of games they had played, and swayed towards an extension of the PR Department for whatever Publisher had sent them a game to review.
I always associated the word 'Hyperbole' with the internet, as that was often the only place I saw it used whenever you saw someone become excited about something and someone else didn't agree - they'd often claim 'hyperbole'. Yet, I feel like that's where we are with the gaming media now.
Everything is amazing and that which isn't amazing is merely just good, when in truth it might just be average and the amazing might only be good. It's as if there's been a shift in ratings and perceptions (that word again) where a 7 isn't a 'good' game anymore, it's merely an average game. Anything below an 8 just isn't' worth playing.
I remember when I was younger and reading Edge throughout the 90s hanging on their every word, as they seemed to critique (not that I was fully aware of what that was back then) nearly all games. If you received a 10 from Edge it was something spectacular. Now, even Edge seem prone to over hyping and perhaps forgetting their own standards on a 10 point scale.
It's perhaps telling that people are starting to go towards bloggers and youtubers to make judgement on games now, as for the most part they seem to be the least affiliated to publisher and less prone to becoming extensions of the PR machine.
Plus, it's a lot easier to make an impression on a game by watching it being played rather than reading the same tired and worn adjectives used in print form.
It's a shame for me that it has got to this point as I really used to enjoy buying Edge, GamesMaster, CVG & Official Nintendo Magazine as a kid. I still have a lot of them stored in a big box in the loft as I feel somewhat attached to them.
I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say, as this was just an unedited stream of thought, so my opinion isn't really structured here. But in reflection, I guess what I'm trying to say is - I don't feel like there's any real critique anymore. You don't get a feel for what the reviewer prefers to play and why they might not have enjoyed this game, or why they HAVE enjoyed this game. As they rarely give their opinions on why something works or why something doesn't work. I hope this makes sense.
I guess I'm also cynical, as I can't help but feel that most of the news and reviews on websites now are there to make me click so they get that page indent for their advertisers. Basically, it's all went too commercial? I don't know, reading this back I suddenly feel like I sound very hipster.
I always associated the word 'Hyperbole' with the internet, as that was often the only place I saw it used whenever you saw someone become excited about something and someone else didn't agree - they'd often claim 'hyperbole'. Yet, I feel like that's where we are with the gaming media now.
Everything is amazing and that which isn't amazing is merely just good, when in truth it might just be average and the amazing might only be good. It's as if there's been a shift in ratings and perceptions (that word again) where a 7 isn't a 'good' game anymore, it's merely an average game. Anything below an 8 just isn't' worth playing.
I remember when I was younger and reading Edge throughout the 90s hanging on their every word, as they seemed to critique (not that I was fully aware of what that was back then) nearly all games. If you received a 10 from Edge it was something spectacular. Now, even Edge seem prone to over hyping and perhaps forgetting their own standards on a 10 point scale.
It's perhaps telling that people are starting to go towards bloggers and youtubers to make judgement on games now, as for the most part they seem to be the least affiliated to publisher and less prone to becoming extensions of the PR machine.
Plus, it's a lot easier to make an impression on a game by watching it being played rather than reading the same tired and worn adjectives used in print form.
It's a shame for me that it has got to this point as I really used to enjoy buying Edge, GamesMaster, CVG & Official Nintendo Magazine as a kid. I still have a lot of them stored in a big box in the loft as I feel somewhat attached to them.
I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say, as this was just an unedited stream of thought, so my opinion isn't really structured here. But in reflection, I guess what I'm trying to say is - I don't feel like there's any real critique anymore. You don't get a feel for what the reviewer prefers to play and why they might not have enjoyed this game, or why they HAVE enjoyed this game. As they rarely give their opinions on why something works or why something doesn't work. I hope this makes sense.
I guess I'm also cynical, as I can't help but feel that most of the news and reviews on websites now are there to make me click so they get that page indent for their advertisers. Basically, it's all went too commercial? I don't know, reading this back I suddenly feel like I sound very hipster.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...ence-leaves-eurogamer-after-libel-complaints/
Here you go. Although one warning: ignorance is bliss. Learn about what actually is going on the games media, with publishers, and it will make you sick.
I think previews are worse. Reviews are usually of a complete game. Previews are usually written about unfinished games that are tailored to look great even if the rest of the game isn't. Plus, even if it doesn't look great, everyone seems to say "well it's still early, it has time to improve".
There is no need to be cynical. The market has changed. It used to be that the customers of news publications used to be the readers. With the internet this is not longer the case. Now the customers of news publications are the advertisers. and the readers are the product which is being sold. The goal is to increase your readership (click rate) and objective journalism is the least effective method for that (not too mention the most expensive as well). Hype and click-bait are much easier and have a much higher audience than a well researched article.
Finally, a voice of reason. Kudos to you, sir.
Sanctuary
Member
You so silly. EGM and Diehard GameFan were the mags to read in the 90s.
Ah, so I guess that explains Polygon with their clickbait articles and seemingly lower scores than every other site on anything popular just for controversy.
I agree. I meant more that I used to try and understand the issue from a different perspective, in order to offer a second opinion on whatever matter.
Yeah this. Previews don't make much sense anyway. They're writing about limited hands on to an unfinished product, so nothing conclusively can be said. And even if they were able to do a well-founded pre-review, they can't give their actual commentary because of a number of reasons (nobody would read the review, people could ignore advertisements, it could upset publishers, no more goodie bags, etc). Besides, a lot of us simply want to get hyped up, and boring, business like criticism means we'll skip out on the website.
There's a pretty simple explanation, and it's got nothing to do with the nonsense bribery conspiracy theories.
Hyperbole brings in eyeballs. Hyperbole gets the Facebook shares and Reddit upvotes that any professional website needs in order to survive in 2014. People don't make NeoGAF threads about nuanced criticism - they make threads when some cheeky reviewer gives the hottest new game a 5/10 or when GameWhatever says Titanfall is the best thing since sex. Want to put an end to the hyperbole? Stop paying attention. (You won't.) Or maybe find a new business model for media outlets. (Good luck!)
Hyperbole brings in eyeballs. Hyperbole gets the Facebook shares and Reddit upvotes that any professional website needs in order to survive in 2014. People don't make NeoGAF threads about nuanced criticism - they make threads when some cheeky reviewer gives the hottest new game a 5/10 or when GameWhatever says Titanfall is the best thing since sex. Want to put an end to the hyperbole? Stop paying attention. (You won't.) Or maybe find a new business model for media outlets. (Good luck!)
EmptySpace
Banned
yep. the problem being games are highly interactive form of entertainment which means the reviews are entirely subjective. guess what, people treat those reviews as facts and objective truths and they actually affect purchasing decisions. sad, really. that is why it should be imperative that games have demos, and official forums so you can discuss with other players. the bad side being the same games media are the ones who only have access to the games prerelase.
hopefully gaikai changes that with its instant demos. we don't have to listen to one person's subjective opinion of the game every time we want to know more info about the game. we can just experience it.
deranged_666
Member
Also, I'm not usually quick to completely criticize the games media blogging/journalism/whatever industry, but one of the big things that stuck out at me last year was Battlefield 4. I can't remember reading one preview or review or impressions from any medium to large-ish site that even mentioned how disgusting of a mess the game was from a technical standpoint. Game breaking bugs everywhere, on every platform, some worse than others. Not even just graphics wise, but matchmaking/connection issues, single player game saves corrupting, PCs crashing, etc. Previews and reviews were generally super positive, borderline praising.
I'm not implying that all sites just ignored the issues in their initial press for some underhanded reason. But I can't imagine that a lot of sites didn't run into these issues while playing the game. And it's not like you had to play hours and hours before running into problems. Is it just because most sites rush their playthroughs in order to be first for the website hits? I just don't get it. My pre-ordered copy of B4 for PS4 is still in its shrink wrap because I'm waiting for it to be ironed out still.
I'm not implying that all sites just ignored the issues in their initial press for some underhanded reason. But I can't imagine that a lot of sites didn't run into these issues while playing the game. And it's not like you had to play hours and hours before running into problems. Is it just because most sites rush their playthroughs in order to be first for the website hits? I just don't get it. My pre-ordered copy of B4 for PS4 is still in its shrink wrap because I'm waiting for it to be ironed out still.
enanogrande
Member
Meh, it's par for the course. Unfortunately you'll have to get to know each site and take every review and impression they say with a grain of salt. Not having play TitanFall yet, I have to say is quite easy to be skeptical about the reaction it's caused - just read any gaming journalists twitter feed for the last couple of days to see what amounts to the rabid reaction to any product I've seen for a game in my entire life. It may very well have earned all the praise, but after the 20th "OMG I've seen things I never thought were possible", "This changes EVERYHTING", "Life Sucks, I wish I was Playing TitanFall" and beta key hand out (I'm quite uneasy with journalists being deployed in what amounts as stealth marketing role, btw), it just starts to sound more like a bunch of excited fanboys than serious critics.
Where I can't accept it, however, is in their reporting of news, which should be as impartial as possible. I'm sure you'll all laugh your heads off at me saying this, but I'm still waiting for Polygon to report on last month's NPD numbers - they've had no problem writing about me in the past, even in relatively quiet months, and we're quite effusive about December's numbers... So why no mention of this one, numbers so shocking across the board that they merit not only a report but probably a deeper analysis? (One which, btw, GAF has seen fit to do, thanks to Amirox's thread). It's hard for me to see things like this and not raise questions.
Where I can't accept it, however, is in their reporting of news, which should be as impartial as possible. I'm sure you'll all laugh your heads off at me saying this, but I'm still waiting for Polygon to report on last month's NPD numbers - they've had no problem writing about me in the past, even in relatively quiet months, and we're quite effusive about December's numbers... So why no mention of this one, numbers so shocking across the board that they merit not only a report but probably a deeper analysis? (One which, btw, GAF has seen fit to do, thanks to Amirox's thread). It's hard for me to see things like this and not raise questions.
Moon_frogger
Member
Naw, titanfall is quite dazzling it really is a lot to take in
I totally understand. Thanks for insight.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Your right. It could have better graphics but after playing killzone sf weak ass multiplayer graphics does not mean shit to get fun.
PlumCantaloupe
Member
Hey Joel, I'm really looking forward to Titanfall. I can't wait to see more of Titanfall. If I had to pick one game I'm most excited about, it would be Titanfall. There will be new Titanfall footage later! Can you believe we get to see more Titanfall? I played some Titanfall last month and it was incredible. Titanfall. Titanfall.
I agree OP, it is difficult and it makes the industry as a whole looks childish. I think it will get better as gaming becomes more accepted as an art form and novel communication (developer to audience) device. Until then we have the EA's and Microsoft's of the world bending the gaming press to their will with incentives, usually monetary.
I must admit that Titanfall does sound intriguing but the fact alone that EA is publishing will have me waiting on the fence before jumping in, if I do. It is too bad though as Respawn seems to have the best intentions. I am very curious how partnering with EA, and the exclusivity to Microsoft, will play out in the end for them.
TheSpoiler
Member
It's not that I don't agree with you on that point. This becomes a problem when those two things are messed together, as you said. But a slight interjection of opinion (or really, subjectivity, because it's impossible to be objective, and some interviews work quite well when utilized as the interviewer's perception) isn't always bad. It become bad when it overrides the original article.
For example, there's nothing wrong with a reviewer giving up his personal opinions on a genre while reviewing it. Say I like beat'em ups, and I'm reviewing one. I'll be a bit biased, or maybe a bit more critical because I know what's up.
Now say I'm doing a news piece. Should I just report on what the PR set told me to do? Or should I point out some inconsistencies?
The problem isn't uneducated writers. It's the writers themselves. In almost every era, journalism hasn't been ruined because the writers don't know what to do, but because those particular writers would rather screw everything up for whatever reason. Look at yellow journalism - the writers themselves knew it wasn't correct, but hey, it's selling!
I've experienced this firsthand. I've just graduated from Columbia College. Some of my classmates were fantastic writers but shitty people. They openly admit to making up sources, dumping the styles like AP to the curb, and other such unethical things.
On the flipside, some of the better websites I enjoy are smaller ones run by some guy passionate about video games. They don't commonly mess those two areas together because they know it'll sound like hyperbole.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Didn't have those in the UK!
Infinite_Daremo
Member
I find it better to be negative then surprised over hyped and disappointed. I don't follow media bias I just use GAF as a guideline then decide myself.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Nothing to complain until previews start to become vehicles to drive pre-orders up in some cases and in others seem completely overturned when the review comes out. Super positive preview becomes a nasty outlook on some unplayable shitfest a month or so later...
Sounds like you're one of those people that like to hate something just because it's popular.
When reading previews or reviews you have to always keep in mind that you're reading someone else's opinions. Just because you don't agree that doesn't always mean that something shady is going on.
It's worth noting, of course, that there's more good games writing in 2014 than there's ever been before, and it's all free. Also, as game companies start to get out more and more of their own message on blogs and YouTube, hyperbolic previews will become less and less relevant.
Funniest bit of hype I've heard from titanfall isn't from the media at all. It's actually what Drew from Respawn said here when people were complaining about the player count.
"I literally have to stop playing every few rounds because my heart just can't take it some times."
I died laughing reading that.
P.S.
I'm not calling him out or anything. I understand it's his job to hype the game. I just thought that was real funny.
"I literally have to stop playing every few rounds because my heart just can't take it some times."
I died laughing reading that.
P.S.
I'm not calling him out or anything. I understand it's his job to hype the game. I just thought that was real funny.
ChosenPredator
Banned
true story, I for one even think titanfall is going to get reviewed well on smaller review websites too, it's actually a pretty fun game nothing crazy innovative like some reviewers may write silly things like eyebaffling, Jar juggling intense breath taking inhaling action that doesn't stop until you turn the lights off but pumps through your veins & processes through your dreams at 1080p 60fps... lol
but i agree with you 100 percent
NobleGundam
Banned
Just wait until Devs start lying to their community about your favorite franchise THEN you have my permission to be cynical.
PJV3
Member
Maybe he's ill or something.
I've already responded to this.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
He has got a case of Titanfallidus.