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[Tookay]

No seriously, I need to know:

Why is it, when people analyze or criticize this game (or any Smash game) - you know, a non-living entity - there is always a brigade of people who are willing to use ad hominems to dismiss the individuals and their opinions?

This seems like the douchiest thing you could possibly do. Those analyzing what they played are fulfilling the purpose of the thread (to discuss the game), yet those responding to them aren't responding to their criticism but going straight for the jugular.

It's fucking obnoxious.

 

[PadWarrior]

I'm out guys this thread is getting as bad as smashboards.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I'm out guys this thread is getting as bad as smashboards.

Yeah, my OT title doesn't work anymore

 

[Nezzhil]

There's no way he's going to change core parts of the gameplay at this point of development.

Reducing the landing lag, knockback stalling and/or increase the DI isn't core parts of gameplay. Adding new/old AT or changing the physics are.

 

[SliceSabre]

I don't post here often, but I don't understand this kind of logic, and please don't take this as a personal attack as I don't mean it to be one. Why is patching that bad? The developers may take cues from players and look at something that a lot of people are complaining about, but at the end of the day it's their decision what they actually patch and it's for the benefit of the game.

At the same time, patches don't just help one group, they help everyone. They tweak things to make the game more balanced, which almost always = more fun for everyone. A game that's balanced competitively is fun for literally everyone - the people that play more casually, the people that play hardcore, and the people that play a mix of the two. If it's balanced at the lowest level or not balanced at all, it's only fun for the people that don't care as much. This can be seen in a ton of games, but examples would be Halo Reach, Halo 4, (maybe) Smash Brawl, and others. By balancing at the highest skill level everyone has fun, plus the casual crowd wouldn't even notice it. They're not always the hardcore group campaigning for change, they would probably go along with it.

Finally, balance patches add life to the game. Starcraft Brood War was kept alive for YEARS as a result of an expansion and balance patch. Dota 1 & 2 are being kept alive and relevant thanks to constant balance patches. Even Halo and Plants vs Zombies get balance patches and they keep the community focused and alive. People discuss the changes, adjust, etc. It goes in cycles and helps the game more than it hurts.

Like I said, please don't take this as a personal attack, but balance patches would help more than they hurt. You get used to changes which will take barely any time (people get used to them in Dota and League incredibly fast, and there's loads more characters in those games. Also, those are the 2 most spectated and played games in the world right now, yet the balance patches don't seem to be scaring anyone off do they?) and as a result the game gets new life breathed into it.

I like how you talk as if balance patches are always good and do nothing but help a game. Many times balance patches are not in fact good or can greatly negatively affect a character in ways that the devs did not intend to happen or worst break the game more rather than fix it. Sometimes patches need to be rolled back. In fact there's a champ in League who the devs felt was too strong in laning, Heimerdinger, so what was their solution? Make him utterly useless exception in a very specific instance of the game and they left him like this for years despite his fanbase pleading with them to fix him. They refused. Why? Because he wasn't as popular as other champs so nope, not fixing him. It wasn't until very recently he was made viable again and gave him a facelift.

So no in fact balance patches are not always a good thing. I do not want to see them in Smash and I do not trust a company that isn't known for doing them to not gum it up and I certainly don't trust the competitive scene's suggestions either.

 

[theprodigy]

I'm out guys this thread is getting as bad as smashboards.

This is probably the 5th time you have posted this, if you don't want to discuss the current topic, then LEAVE, or change the topic instead of bitching about the current topic.

 

[SmithnCo]

Yikes.

 

[KittenMaster]

And when does it end?

Hint:

Spoiler

It doesn't.

The competitive scene will always find something to moan about and ask to be patched. Again look no further than Street Fighter and League of Legends.

If brawl could be patched, metaknight's infinite cape would be gone. There are just some things everybody can agree on.

 

[georly]

That is some of the worst shit I've ever seen.

That was really bad to watch. Nobody likes to see a dirty fight, everyone wants to see a fair fight. Running away the whole fight, while a legitimate strategy, is no fun to watch.

 

[Tookay]

I must have missed the part where all of the impressions have been negative.

Where did I say that? You literally put words in my mouth.

My point is that somebody's suggestion that others should avoid commenting on a game they've played and that those "whiners" be shipped off to some thread gulag isn't particularly productive.

I welcome impressions both good and bad; it seems clear that there are others (like the person I quoted) who aren't welcoming of such diversity in opinion.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

For the record, the main reason I was asking was because I wanted to see how far from the consensus I was.

I enjoyed what I played and would pay the $60 they're asking for it - with all the content filled out, obviously.

 

[Tan]

You ALL need to chill out, both sides. It is going to be a different game, it could end up being better then melee for all we know, it needs the time to be really played and broken down first.

We have one demo and a bunch of videos to go off of. Of course the game could change but what else do we have to discuss of the game at the moment? We're talking about what we played because that's all we've got to go off of. and also because talking about this stuff is fun.

 

[JoeInky]

I must have missed the part where all of the impressions have been negative.

Melee took more than three matches to evolve into the game it is today. It's straight up stupid to take peoples impressions after a few games as indication of the competitive or legitimate nature of the game. Especially if they are hardcore Melee players, because they have a pre disposition that causes them to try and make existing strategies work as opposed to learning what's in front of them.

You ALL need to chill out, both sides. It is going to be a different game, it could end up being better then melee for all we know, it needs the time to be really played and broken down first.

I think if you don't actually understand what people are criticising and how it affects the base mechanics of what makes smash, smash, then you shouldn't really be trying to dismiss the criticisms.

As it stands now, it can't be better than melee as a competitive game due to how much it rewards defensive play over other styles.

They've actually added more defensive options and removed offensive options from brawl in the current build, so I'm sorry if you can't understand why people would be incredibly worried about this.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Saturday line is going much faster with only 1 set. The group I was playing it froze the Wii U when Link activated his final Smash; funny stuff.

 

[superNESjoe]

Where did I say that? You literally put words in my mouth.

My point is that somebody's suggestion for others to avoid commenting on a game they've played and shipping them off to some thread gulag isn't particularly productive.

I welcome impressions both good and bad; it seems clear they are others (like the person I quoted) who aren't welcoming of such diversity in opinion.

The way it was worded, it seemed implied that you could only be hyped for the game if you were ignoring the feedback of those that played it. Essentially sounding like you were saying all the feedback was bad.

Poor wording or misunderstanding. The rest of my post I stand by.

 

[FleenerW]

It's one of the key tenants of most FPS games after all and one of the first things you need to learn. Are you saying you don't think this is true? :3

My original post said it's something that doesn't require a lot of strategic effort, not that it isn't a strategy at all. It doesn't take much effort to find or ask about a good camping spot in an FPS.

I think playing to your strengths is strategy. You consider it giving up. I guess we'll just have to live with the fact our stances on this point differ

I think you twisted that a little. I didn't mean to imply that playing to your strengths is giving up, but only relying on camping and not learning advanced tech is a form of "giving up". Like I said before, I don't mind people doing what's necessary to win, all I meant to say is I don't think it takes much effort to camp.

 

[superNESjoe]

I think if you don't actually understand what people are criticising and how it affects the base mechanics of what makes smash, smash, then you shouldn't really be trying to dismiss the criticisms.

As it stands now, it can't be better than melee as a competitive game due to how much it rewards defensive play over other styles.

They've actually added more defensive options and removed offensive options from brawl in the current build, so I'm sorry if you can't understand why people would be incredibly worried about this.

I do get it, and until it's available I don't see the issue. It will not be melee, but a defensive game does not immediately equal it not being viable for competition. Melee is not the end all definition of competitive gameplay.

Think beyond the box, there is potential for great competitive gameplay outside the structure of melee.

 

[georly]

For the record, the main reason I was asking was because I wanted to see how far from the consensus I was.

I enjoyed what I played and would pay the $60 they're asking for it - with all the content filled out, obviously.

Yup, I enjoyed what I played a lot. I don't play competitively, so I, personally, don't care about a ton of the complaints. The only thing that was a bit jarring and might take some getting used to (because it wasn't that fun) was sometimes, when landing, the character wasn't as responsive as i'm used to in previous smash games. I usually want the game to be responsive 100% of the time and I felt like being stuck in place when landing was not that much fun :/

 

[k_Reign]

One thing that a lot of people need to keep in mind is this:

They are not simply adding and removing features. So it's not fair to say "L-cancelling is gone so it's gonna suck!" because this is a new game! We don't know all of the systems in place and we won't know until the game comes out and people have a good amount of time to play with it. There will be new systems, some of which we have seen, that will all play together in a new way that is not present in the past games.

So please, remember things like this and don't jump to conclusions about the game until you and others have had a good amount of time to play it once it's complete without restrictions, like the E3 demos.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Saturday line is going much faster with only 1 set. The group I was playing it froze the Wii U when Link activated his final Smash; funny stuff.

I can see why Nintendo doesn't want to send out the E3 demo.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Yikes.

Yeah,


I'm considering to do this; Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: World Wars M

 

[Tookay]

The way it was worded, it seemed implied that you could only be hyped for the game if you were ignoring the feedback of those that played it. Essentially sounding like you were saying all the feedback was bad.

Not at all. I want to see a healthy discussion on the merits of this game, good and bad.

Games criticism is good; what I don't like is seeing poster criticism, and it seems to mostly come from one side (those overly defensive about this game, at the cost of being vicious towards people).

 

[R0ckman]

Second try at both versions, and I will say that overall, the 3DS one is way more polished and will be an enjoyable game at launch unless Sakurai loses his mind by an extreme margin and does something bad with the mechanics. Really enjoyed Smash Run. 3DS version is comfortable control wise, preferred taping the control stick for juming rather than using x and y.

Got to try Mega Man again, was finally able to set up some damn combos with him, Also as long as he is on a stage with more open space, he's a pretty good character. With a GameCube Controller I'd be confident in taking him under my wing of mastery, couldn't say this the other day. Rack up damage from a distance, move in and use combos to finish off targets, no other way to do it. Mega Buster still needs major work, fully charged, does not go far enough and needs a BIT more knock back, should be stronger than a fully charged Samus charged shot, that's for damn sure, with Samus, you can charge and evade while doing it, and store it and it flies further in comparison. Mega Man, you are stationary, you can not evade and its distance seems so much shorter.

This last part probably won't be fixed as its part of the problem of the design. Game is too fucking flashy, which is why it was hard for me to keep track of everything on Wednesday. On the Wii U version I was Mac on Battlefield an did better playing defensive, would have won, but some how after getting KO'd once, I slid of the stage or some shit. I actually couldn't tell what happened honestly. All of a sudden I was just in the bottom left corner of the stage at a low percentage.

Last but not least, if anything things HAS to change it is that fucking stale moves programing. It really cripples game play for everyone. I really am disappointed in this, there is no good reason for this to be in as it is. As someone stated before, damage should be weakened but NOT knock back.

 

[SuperSah]

I'm out guys this thread is getting as bad as smashboards.

Smashboards 2.0

 

[sorakirosaki]

For the record, the main reason I was asking was because I wanted to see how far from the consensus I was.

I enjoyed what I played and would pay the $60 they're asking for it - with all the content filled out, obviously.

i think for me i and my friends will get it regardless since it seems it has changed enough to warrant a look plus its a new smash in a while so its something for us to be excited about
i do hope in the end the game is successful and every one is happy (but lets face it not everyone will be happy)

 

[Lord Phol]

I consider myself more of a play for fun gamer than a competitive one, but I don't see how balance patches are a bad thing. Of course you would want the game to be as balanced as possible at launch, but if there is a possibility to improve the game after launch that should be viewed as something positive.

Even if you are a casual gamer you're not going to have fun if there are certain moves and characters that just dominates everything else.

Balance = Variety/Options = More fun.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yeah, Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: World Wars M

I like "Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U Thread 9: Backlash"

(A backlash is not an inherently bad or irrational thing and can totally have legitimate reasons. This game is just clearly having one.)

 

[sorakirosaki]

I like "Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U Thread 9: Backlash"

(A backlash is not an inherently bad or irrational thing and can totally have legitimate reasons. This game is just clearly having one.)

Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U Thread 9: Game over

Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U Thread 9: We are now just too slow

 

[munchie64]

No, and given Brawl and Nintendo online in general, concern is the correct default position.

Really now?

 

[Sadist]

Miiverse is basically Smashboards, only they care about the roster instead of the physics.

Wait, people actually want Sonic's shitty friend? I can't comprehend this kind of stuff.

 

[JoeInky]

I do get it, and until it's available I don't see the issue. It will not be melee, but a defensive game does not immediately equal it not being viable for competition. Melee is not the end all definition of competitive gameplay.

Think beyond the box, there is potential for great competitive gameplay outside the structure of melee.

Any game is viable for competition but a defensive game is not a good competitive game.

It just rewards stalling, camping and running around the stage because the person who's trying to attack is at a disadvantage, look at that video I posted earlier of zero playing brawl.

He literally just goes to make sure he has the percentage lead and then tries to stall until the timer runs out because that's the most effective tactic in a game that rewards defensive play.

Now we have reduced landing lag on aerials, no proper dash dancing, no shield stun and pivot tilts, what does this mean?

Less landing lag on aerials, approaches become a lot less safe and easily punishable with barely any skill involved, it changes offense from being high risk, high reward to high risk, low reward whereas the defensive player has low risk high reward.

No proper dash dancing, harder to bait the other person into thinking you're going to try and go on the offensive to try and get them to react to it.

No shield stun means that when you do hit their shield, they practically able to act out of it instantly, making aerials even less safe when grouped with the landing lag.

The new pivot mechanics? People can just run away, pivot then go into a tilt or smash to knock you away from them so they can create more space between you and keep running.


Yes, smash 4 could be played competitively, but so far all of that stuff sounds like an incredibly bad competitive game both for the players and spectators.

And then there's other shit that ruins it like stale moves and no momentum conservation, a lot of the things that, at a base level, make smash a great competitive game aren't there.

 

[Tan]

Wait, people actually want Sonic's shitty friend? I can't comprehend this kind of stuff.

There are far crazier requests on the miiverse.

 

[Spinluck]

I have a few:

1) Did you flick on 3D? How was it?
2) Did you find viewing the action on a small screen to be okay?
3) Is the circle pad responsive enough?
4) I know the game runs at 60fps, but did you witness any issues at all?
5) Who did you play as and on what stage?
6) Any general comments about Smash on a 3DS?

Thanks. :3

1. I didn't flick on the 3D because the rep politely asked me not to since there would be a bunch of people crowding me to watch. And we all know the XL has shitty 3D viewing angles and viewing angles in general. Pretty sure some people did it anyway lol.

2. They were red XLs, and the game scales on it fine. I had no problem seeing anything, and even though the screen sucks the game looked SHARP.

3. If anything the circle pad was too responsive lol. At least to me. I think this is great though because one you adjust you can be very precise. I found myself accidentally smash attacking a lot though. But I think with time my coordination would adjust accordingly. It felt awkward, but not terrible like some suggested.

4. We didn't play Smash run (we played 1v1), and the game was smooth all the way through. I think it's the best looking 3DS game by far. Response time was great, and I noticed no drops regardless of what was going on in the match.

5. I picked Mega Man, and my opponent picked Little Mac. I didn't win lol. It was on Battlefield and I had hard time figuring out how the fuck he played. Mac wrecked my shit, but towards the latter end of the match I came back and got a Smash Ball to bring it into sudden death. In sudden death he literally dashed to me and killed me. Little Mac is fast guize.

6. It is incredible, and will be totally worth the wait. I would've liked more time (2 min timed match), but I understand it's a demo and they have to get it into the hands of others to play. Based off the Wii U footage, the 3DS version won't be a compromise out side of control options and a few other things. It feels more like Brawl then Melee, but the controls feel tighter and more sensitive (I was accidentally jumping at times though). Anyway I can't wait for the game to drop. HYPE. HYPE. HYPE.

 

[Sadist]

There are far crazy requests on the miiverse.

Thank god for Mii's right?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The circle pad definitely had too little deadzone between movement and smash attack. Ended up just punching the air a few times because of it.

 

[SuperSah]

1. I didn't flick on the 3D because the rep politely asked me not to since there would be a bunch of people crowding me to watch. And we all know the XL has shitty 3D viewing angles and viewing angles in general. Pretty sure some people did it anyway lol.

2. They were red XLs, and the game scales on it fine. I had no problem seeing anything, and even though the screen sucks the game looked SHARP.

3. If anything the circle pad was too responsive lol. At least to me. I think this is great though because one you adjust you can be very precise. I found myself accidentally smash attacking a lot though. But I think with time my coordination would adjust accordingly. It felt awkward, but not terrible like some suggested.

4. We didn't play Smash run (we played 1v1), and the game was smooth all the way through. I think it's the best looking 3DS game by far. Response time was great, and I noticed no drops regardless of what was going on in the match.

5. I picked Mega Man, and my opponent picked Little Mac. I didn't win lol. It was on Battlefield and I had hard time figuring out how the fuck he played. Mac wrecked my shit, but towards the latter end of the match I came back and got a Smash Ball to bring it into sudden death. In sudden death he literally dashed to me and killed me. Little Mac is fast guize.

6. It is incredible, and will be totally worth the wait. I would've liked more time (2 min timed match), but I understand it's a demo and they have to get it into the hands of others to play. Based off the Wii U footage, the 3DS version won't be a compromise out side of control options and a few other things. It feels more like Brawl then Melee, but the controls feel tighter and more sensitive (I was accidentally jumping at times though). Anyway I can't wait for the game to drop. HYPE. HYPE. HYPE.

Thank you for the great impressions!

Surely put my fears to bed!

 

[KHlover]

what the fuck has happened in the last few hours?

 

[sorakirosaki]

The circle pad definitely had too little deadzone between movement and smash attack. Ended up just punching the air a few times because of it.

yeah i can defintely see the circle pad being preety iffy or down right just wear down after a while due its heavy usage ( monster hunter seems like it might do that as well)

what the fuck has happened in the last few hours?

basically both sides arguing about everything (not to say its bad thing) heated discussions and just a lot of other stuff mixed in its kinda funny

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's probably a little ill-suited for Smash for the same reason Mario 3D Land had a run button: you tend to push in extremes with that pad, whereas an analog stick allows subtler degrees.

 

[Tan]

what the fuck has happened in the last few hours?

I actually feel like the discussions have been a lot more in depth and more respectful then usual...

 

[JoeInky]

what the fuck has happened in the last few hours?

The average opinion is that the game is disappointing from a competitive standpoint and people from a casual perspective who don't care about the depth of the game are annoyed that people are criticising it, so they're acting as if this is suddenly smashboards now because of us and they've already made it known that they consider smashboards members to be scum.

 

[Geminosity]

My original post said it's something that doesn't require a lot of strategic effort, not that it isn't a strategy at all. It doesn't take much effort to find or ask about a good camping spot in an FPS.


I think you twisted that a little. I didn't mean to imply that playing to your strengths is giving up, but only relying on camping and not learning advanced tech is a form of "giving up". Like I said before, I don't mind people doing what's necessary to win, all I meant to say is I don't think it takes much effort to camp.

For Overswarm, perhaps relying on camping and not learning advanced tech was a simple case of 'if it aint broke, dont fix it'. I can't speak for them as I don't know them and I've never fought them

Well then, I think this argument has reached the point of stalemate/looping on where we believe the levels of skill in camping lie then :3

As someone who loved to set up a good tent with friends in CounterStrike or the like back in the day I was always amused that those who complained about me wiping out their team with my 'easy' camping, weren't able to replicate my results when the tables were reversed.
The consistency of these results also further makes me theorize that it wasn't just luck but that there were in fact some kind of skills or strategy at work that I was using that my very vocal but unsuccessful detractors lacked. Simple things like using sound (mostly footsteps) to locate the enemy through walls and shoot them being one of the simpler nuances a lot of people didn't seem to pick up on... one that has an equally easy counter (crouching eliminates footstep audio) The reason I think they weren't able to do it is because they were more eager to simply insult or deride something they didn't like rather than make the true effort to understand it. I understood their playstyle plenty: that's what helped me kill them half the time, because it made their movements predictable.

I don't know though, perhaps you were a camper extraordinary who ruled servers with such ease you became bored of it and vowed never to do it again... or perhaps you were one of my vocal detractors. I don't know, and ultimately it probably doesn't matter because I doubt I can convince you of my position and I'm not seeing eye-to-eye with where you seem to be coming from on this particular point either and I don't see either stiuation changing sadly

 

[Beelzebufo]

I actually feel like the discussions have been a lot more in depth and more respectful then usual...

I wouldn't say that, there's been a lot of people at each other's throats. Definitely at least a little worse than usual.

 

[SuperSah]

yeah i can defintely see the circle pad being preety iffy or down right just wear down after a while due its heavy usage ( monster hunter seems like it might do that as well)

Dunno man, I feel the 3DS circle pad is extremely sturdy. I beat it with hundreds of MH hours, SSFIV and KIU and it looks as good as new.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The average opinion is that the game is disappointing from a competitive standpoint and people from a casual perspective who don't care about the depth of the game are annoyed that people are criticising it, so they're acting as if this is suddenly smashboards now because of us and they've already made it known that they consider smashboards members to be scum.

Dude, you yourself have said you turn in to an elitist jackass when you perceive people as getting on your nerves. I'm not sure it's wise to push this all on everyone else.

 

[Spinluck]

The circle pad definitely had too little deadzone between movement and smash attack. Ended up just punching the air a few times because of it.

I thought it was just my shit coordination. I think it's something I can adjust to though.

 

[sorakirosaki]

I actually feel like the discussions have been a lot more in depth and more respectful then usual...

it certainly has but the tension between both sides have certainly been rising and i get where both are coming from but it is starting to get a little grating when both sides are doing it imho

Dunno man, I feel the 3DS circle pad is extremely sturdy. I beat it with hundreds of MH hours, SSFIV and KIU and it looks as good as new.

true it is quite sturdy but there are parts of me that are a bit worried since i feel the way to do smash attacks seem more *aggressive?* i dont think thats the right word but yeah i could see it being a bit taxing hopefully in the end it will work i cant wait to play it and get my own feel fr it once it releases

 

[KHlover]

The average opinion is that the game is disappointing from a competitive standpoint and people from a casual perspective who don't care about the depth of the game are annoyed that people are criticising it, so they're acting as if this is suddenly smashboards now because of us and they've already made it known that they consider smashboards members to be scum.

That seems to have been the case for multiple days, but why did it get heated this afternoon? New impressions to kindle the flames?

 

[Miutsu]

Yup, I enjoyed what I played a lot. I don't play competitively, so I, personally, don't care about a ton of the complaints. The only thing that was a bit jarring and might take some getting used to (because it wasn't that fun) was sometimes, when landing, the character wasn't as responsive as i'm used to in previous smash games. I usually want the game to be responsive 100% of the time and I felt like being stuck in place when landing was not that much fun :/

One of the main complaints coming from the competitive side is that if you hit the ground while doing an aerial, there is a lot of lag in general. This could be related tot he problem you were experiencing and many people think that if the lag were to be reduced it would make the game more fun to everyone (competitive and casual).

For the record I will most likely buy the game too (even maybe on both platforms) but people should not get upset if someone has an opinion of the game that could deter their enjoyment of it. Smash is a huge package and its perfectly fine for some to enjoy some aspects of it more than others, and being the new installment (something that only happens once each generation) everyone just want to have fun with it, even if the fun comes from different aspects of the game.

EDIT: Let me put it this other way, if the game was looking to be the most competitive viable smash in history but most stages were only variants of FD-Battlefield-Pokemon Stadium-Dreamland-etc, with only 10 items and 3-5 pokeball pokemon and assists trophies, then I think we could be looking at a reversal of opinions (competitive crowd being happy and casuals being frustrated/concerned), and you know what? any negative opinions and concerns about these issues would be perfectly valid and people should not get upset about others being negative about the game, just because the competitive crowd is happy and something like items are not their concern. People are entlitled to voice their opinion as long as its in a civil manner, and others should be able to understand why people get upset, even if they are perfectly happy with the game.

 

[JoeInky]

That seems to have been the case for multiple days, but why did it get heated this afternoon? New impressions to kindle the flames?

Someone posted overswarms writeup for like the 8th time and it got me worked up to the point where I probably started posting a bit too much at everyone who was agreeing with it.