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Millionaires Fighting: Square Enix sues SNK Playmore

T

TheBaronOfNA

Banned
ATXAlchemy said:
I think the serialization is (still) halted.

AFAIK, the guy responsible for whatever shit that should have been done to avoid this didn't get any punishments (or only minor ones), while the author of the manga seems to be bearing the hit of all this. No serialization and voluntary pull out of the manga.

Personally, I hope Square-Enix loses this battle.
Click to expand...

Why? The other companies said that SQ actually asked for permission and SNK decided that the best curse of action was a raid.
 
F

fedexpeon

Banned
LOL, how is Square Enix even going to win this?
I hope the court will laugh at them because SNK has all the right to do a criminal complaint since it is their IP that SE stole.

Just like in retails, you don't steal stuff then later tell the store hey...I didn't mean to steal your stuff, but since you caught me, I can pay it now if you don't call the cops.
Well guess what SE, your permission form is useless when no one at SNK acknowledges it.
 
T

TheBaronOfNA

Banned
fedexpeon said:
LOL, how is Square Enix even going to win this?
I hope the court will laugh at them because SNK has all the right to do a criminal complaint since it is their IP that SE stole.
Click to expand...

Again, is not a little weird that only SNK was not asked about using its IP while dozen of other companies didn't have a problem? Or that is only after a Anime adaptation is announced?
 
F

fedexpeon

Banned
TheBaronOfNA said:
Again, is not a little weird that only SNK was not asked about using its IP while dozen of other companies didn't have a problem? Or that is only after a Anime adaptation is announced?
Click to expand...

No, it isn't weird at all.
SNK would get a royalty from all the merchandises sales from the anime and the comic, why would a company say no to free money unless SE eff them over realllllllllllllllllllllllllly hard? Free money brah.

If SE sent a permission form, and SNK didn't response or acknowledged the letter, then it was SE's fault for making a stupid assumption that SNK approved their magical letter.

Or even vice versa, SNK could have sent over the letter and told them no, but SE pretended not to receive it and wanted to capitalize on the anime/merch sales for their own benefit.
And boom, SNK got mad by SE's dismissal and went straight for a criminal lawsuit instead of a copyright case.

So yeah, SNK is in a win-win situation since SE side makes no sense at all, and everything is pointing that SE was literally stealing from SNK all these time.
 
F

fedexpeon

Banned
TheBaronOfNA said:
If I need to guess, the fact that there is now a counter lawsuit means that they are not close to agree in anything.



Where?
Click to expand...

Where?
By getting sued by SNK in a criminal case when SNK realized that SE has been stealing their IP all these times.
SNK never acknowledged a worthless permission form by SE. And if SNK did acknowledge it, where were the royalties from the comic sales?
No one would sue anyone if they receive free money.
This isn't a copyright case is it?

Now explain to me why SNK doesn't want royalties right, or free advertisement in comic/anime for their IP?
So something went really wrong on SE side eg: straight up stealing, and didn't want to pay the fee for using SNK IP.
 
S

Sinople

Member
I wish SNKP's current CEO, Sotoyama, is soon kicked out of his position. I hear nothing good about the guy.
 
L

Lain

Member
Good on Square. I don't believe for a second that they asked every other software house for permissions to use their characters in the manga except SNK and the way SNK acted was just shit.
Hopefully Hi-score Girl will be able to come back, one day.
 
T

TheBaronOfNA

Banned
fedexpeon said:
Where?
By getting sued by SNK in a criminal case when SNK realized that SE has been stealing their IP all these times.
SNK never acknowledged a worthless permission form by SE. And if SNK did acknowledge it, where were the royalties from the comic sales?
No one would sue anyone if they receive free money.
This isn't a copyright case is it?

Now explain to me why SNK doesn't want royalties right, or free advertisement in comic/anime for their IP?
So something went really wrong on SE side eg: straight up stealing, and didn't want to pay the fee for using SNK IP.
Click to expand...

You realize that you are taking the SNK version at face value and is not exactly a prove?
 
F

fedexpeon

Banned
TheBaronOfNA said:
You realize that you are taking the SNK version at face value and is not exactly a prove?
Click to expand...

And you believe SE?
Tell me why I shouldn't believe in SNK then if you want to defend SE.

SNK is in a win-win-win situation here.
Royalties and free advertisements from doing nothing but signing off a piece of letter telling SE it is okay to use SNK IP.

SNK is refusing a prolong economic and financial benefits over a stupid lawsuit...Just think about that. SNK has rather waste money instead of gaining free money.

Everything is in favor of SNK, SE side makes no sense at all.
SNK didn't go with a copyright case, they went for a criminal case for a reason.

You guys want the anime and the continue of the manga...that is fine.
But laws are laws.
 
X

Xenus

Member
fedexpeon said:
And you believe SE?
Tell me why I shouldn't believe in SNK then if you want to defend SE.

SNK is in a win-win-win situation here.
Royalties and free advertisements from doing nothing but signing off a piece of letter telling SE it is okay to use SNK IP.

SNK is refusing a prolong economic and financial benefits over a stupid lawsuit...Just think about that. SNK has rather waste money instead of gaining free money.

Everything is in favor of SNK, SE side makes no sense at all.
SNK didn't go with a copyright case, they went for a criminal case for a reason.

You guys want the anime and the continue of the manga...that is fine.
But laws are laws.
Click to expand...

Becuase SE worked out deals with everyone else? The likelihood is if they were knowingly stealing IP they would of done it more then just one. It's just as likely that it was either an oversite or that SNK agreed to something thinking the series would flop and when it didn't asked for a bigger piece of the pie SE told them to stuff it we have a contract and SNK says ok we'll withold our stuff now and call it stealing.
 
F

fedexpeon

Banned
Xenus said:
Becuase SE worked out deals with everyone else? The likelihood is if they were knowingly stealing IP they would of done it more then just one. It's just as likely that it was either an oversite or that SNK agreed to something thinking the series would flop and when it didn't asked for a bigger piece of the pie SE told them to stuff it we have a contract and SNK says ok we'll withold our stuff now and call it stealing.
Click to expand...

If it were that simple, then SE would just laugh at SNK and show the court this "contract".
The cops wouldn't raid SE, and SNK would pay the fine for abusing the court/cop power.
Simple as that.
Show the court the paperwork instead of suing SNK for going crazy on them.
Easy win right?
 
K

kick51

Banned
Hardcore fans have been eagerly anticipating this event, and now the waiting is finally over. Check your training wheels at the door, ladies and gentlemen. This is gonna be one incredible battle that won't easily be forgotten.
 
A

ATXAlchemy

Member
Xenus said:
Becuase SE worked out deals with everyone else? The likelihood is if they were knowingly stealing IP they would of done it more then just one. It's just as likely that it was either an oversite or that SNK agreed to something thinking the series would flop and when it didn't asked for a bigger piece of the pie SE told them to stuff it we have a contract and SNK says ok we'll withold our stuff now and call it stealing.
Click to expand...

Sega have already spoken out that before Square-Enix had any permission, Sega's characters were already appearing in the manga.

So during that time, Square-Enix had already been using stuff without permission.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...complaints-against-hi-score-girl-manga/.78273
 
X

Xenus

Member
fedexpeon said:
If it were that simple, then SE would just laugh at SNK and show the court this "contract".
The cops wouldn't raid SE, and SNK would pay the fine for abusing the court/cop power.
Simple as that.
Show the court the paperwork instead of suing SNK for going crazy on them.
Easy win right?
Click to expand...

This world has taught me even the most obvious of court cases are never an easy win. As you said if SNK's side were true they seemingly have a slam dunk case as well. The fact that it hasn't been settled yet either means both sides aren't telling the truth or one or both sides have damn good lawyers that can argue even the most obvious case isn't obvious.
 
S

ss-hikaru

Member
studyguy said:
Raiding SE over something a manga artist drew was pretty harsh tbh.
Either way SE's GANGAN publication has some quality manga that's been adapted, so I can't really hate them.

giphy.gif
Click to expand...

Man I love Daily Lives of Highschool Boys XD

threelights said:
Man, Danshi Koukousei is one of the best comedy animes out there. Where's my second season?
Click to expand...

Yeah, what's the chances of a se-

studyguy said:
There's a live action film and that's it.
The manga's over and there's never going to be anymore content. Ever.
tumblr_mny57gnGrN1rjjc3go1_500.gif
Click to expand...

DESPAIR! I learnt a sad truth today ;__;

Was Hi-score girl made/going to be made into an anime?
 
C

casiopao

Member
F

fedexpeon

Banned
orthodoxy1095 said:
I'm confused by JPN law. Why is copyright infringement a criminal and not civil issue?
Click to expand...

SNK decided it was a criminal case since SE ignored SNK repeated requests to stop using their IP, after awhile, SNK finally decided SE was trying to steal their IP by not upholding to their request to stop since SE was still publishing the manga and attempting to create an anime series using their IP. The cops had to raid SE office to collect evidences for criminal actions.

Despite repeated demands for immediate cessation of the sale of the electronic books, independent books, monthly magazines and others of “HIGH SCORE GIRL”, SQUARE ENIX failed to sincerely respond to SNK PLAYMORE’s requests, and continues to publish the offending materials.
Click to expand...

Thus, SNK didn't go the route of a civil case due to SE arrogant behavior, which is why we are here now.
Now SE is crying over spilled milk, and they are counter suing SNK for suing them for criminal actions instead of going through civil procedures for Copy Right infringement. Basically, SE is admitting that the manga did infringe on copyright law and they want to contest in a civil suit instead...Yupper.

So yeah, SE is pretty much screwed since every IP holders will sue them afterward.
Let's hope that the TR exclusive money will be able to pay off some of the lawsuits.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
fedexpeon said:
SNK decided it was a criminal case since SE ignored SNK repeated requests to stop using their IP, after awhile, SNK finally decided SE was trying to steal their IP by not upholding to their request to stop since SE was still publishing the manga and attempting to create an anime series using their IP. The cops had to raid SE office to collect evidences for criminal actions.

Thus, SNK didn't go the route of a civil case due to SE arrogant behavior, which is why we are here now.

Now SE is crying over spilled milk, and they are counter suing SNK for suing them for criminal actions instead of going through civil procedures for Copy Right infringement. Basically, SE is admitting that the manga did infringe on copyright law and they want to contest in a civil suit instead...Yupper.

So yeah, SE is pretty much screwed since every IP holders will sue them afterward.
Let's hope that the TR exclusive money will be able to pay off some of the lawsuits.
Click to expand...
I don't see how your logic follows. How is this admitting that it's an infringement? I understand they're contesting the criminal grounds, and probably rightly so. But how is doing that an admittance of guilt?

As much as I don't like SE these days, I find it hard to believe that a heavy-hitting company like them didn't obtain permission of some kind. Perhaps an employee misled higher-ups about an agreement they didn't have. But I find it hard to believe that a company well-versed with copyright law and intellectual property would willfully infringe upon other's copyrights. It would set a bad precedence of use of their own properties by other groups. It's one thing to "copy" intellectual property like what happens between Apple/Google/Samsung. But this is blatant use of property and I find it hard to believe that SE is that stupid.

I also don't follow your logic that "every IP holders will sue them afterward." As far as we know, they got permission from everyone else.
 
F

fedexpeon

Banned
orthodoxy1095 said:
I don't see how your logic follows. How is this admitting that it's an infringement? I understand they're contesting the criminal grounds, and probably rightly so. But how is doing that an admittance of guilt?

As much as I don't like SE these days, I find it hard to believe that a heavy-hitting company like them didn't obtain permission of some kind. Perhaps an employee misled higher-ups about an agreement they didn't have. But I find it hard to believe that a company well-versed with copyright law and intellectual property would willfully infringe upon other's copyrights. It would set a bad precedence of use of their own properties by other groups. It's one thing to "copy" intellectual property like what happens between Apple/Google/Samsung. But this is blatant use of property and I find it hard to believe that SE is that stupid.

I also don't follow your logic that "every IP holders will sue them afterward." As far as we know, they got permission from everyone else.
Click to expand...

They want to contest the case into a civil suit since that where copyright procedural should be taken place. If you want to contest in that area, you must have a reason why, and the reason is SE is acknowledging to the fact that the manga case should be about copy right infringement and not a criminal case against them.

SEGA+others were already pissed that SE asked later for their "permission". The other companies decided yes because it was free advertisement for their IP. However, SNK was the only one to tell SE to eff off.
Is SE too big to fail? Nope, they also acted arrogant against other IP holders. So why are you so surprised that SNK would sue SE for this, and SE past behaviors for asking permission after the fact that SE was using other company's IP already without consent? Other IP holders already told you what SE did to them publicly. And it doesn't matter who misled who. They are still part of SE.

The permission will be taken away easily. It is literally a permission letter.
The board of directors or executive members will deny that permission by voting to revoke it.
I am pretty sure the case will go into civil, and SNK/SE will settle. The filling/suing from SE is to avoid going into criminal court.
But I do want to see what is the outcome if the court decided that SNK has the right to a criminal court, and winning the lawsuit in it.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
fedexpeon said:
They want to contest the case into a civil suit since that where copyright procedural should be taken place. If you want to contest in that area, you must have a reason why, and the reason is SE is acknowledging to the fact that the manga case should be about copy right infringement and not a criminal case against them.

SEGA+others were already pissed that SE asked later for their "permission". The other companies decided yes because it was free advertisement for their IP. However, SNK was the only one to tell SE to eff off.
Is SE too big to fail? Nope, they also acted arrogant against other IP holders. So why are you so surprised that SNK would sue SE for this? Other IP holders already told you what SE did to them publicly. And it doesn't matter who misled who. They are still part of SE.

The permission will be taken away easily. It is literally a permission letter.
The board of directors will deny that permission by voting to revoke it.
Click to expand...
I'm confused. Is the declaratory judgment request a request on ruling of the jurisdiction of the court proceedings or a ruling on the actual copyright infringement?

I didn't say they were too big to fail, especially since this isn't SE as a whole that we're talking about. They are too big however to have incompetent legal advisers. I'm frankly a bit suspicious of the idea that SE wouldn't staff and oversee their manga division with adequate lawyers. I'm not surprised that SNK would sue. I'm surprised that SNK has grounds for legal actions.

And if someone, say the author, misled SE, yes it does matter legally. Scapegoats can be found.
 
F

fedexpeon

Banned
orthodoxy1095 said:
I'm confused. Is the declaratory judgment request a request on ruling of the jurisdiction of the court proceedings or a ruling on the actual copyright infringement?

I didn't say they were too big to fail, especially since this isn't SE as a whole that we're talking about. They are too big however to have incompetent legal advisers. I'm frankly a bit suspicious of the idea that SE wouldn't staff and oversee their manga division with adequate lawyers. I'm not surprised that SNK would sue. I'm surprised that SNK has grounds for legal actions.

And if someone, say the author, misled SE, yes it does matter legally. Scapegoats can be found.
Click to expand...

SNK is in a win-win-win situation. They have the right to legal action since they have records of telling SE to stop using their IP.
They are refusing royalties and free advertisement to sue SE. SNK must be serious to refuse free money and economic benefit.

They are suing SE, so who cares about the author.
By scapegoating the author, SE is also admitting to guilt since SE is responsible for the author and his work. SE is the publisher, they should have double checked with SNK.
Ignorant about your company worker doesn't mean anything since they have the right to inform and educate their workers.
 
S

Squire

Banned
fedexpeon said:
SNK is in a win-win-win situation. They have the right to legal action since they have records of telling SE to stop using their IP.
They are refusing royalties and free advertisement to sue SE. SNK must be serious to refuse free money and economic benefit.

They are suing SE, so who cares about the author.
By scapegoating the author, SE is also admitting to guilt since SE is responsible for the author and his work. SE is the publisher, they should have double checked with SNK.
Ignorant about your company worker doesn't mean anything since they have the right to inform and educate their workers.
Click to expand...

How much money does SNK have? Couldn't Square bleed them out through legal fees?
 
S

Silky

Banned
I still think they're gonna settle in SNKs favor or something, because this wouldn't be going on as long as this is if SE had proof that SNK gave consent to use their characters in the manga
 
S

Squire

Banned
Silky said:
I still think they're gonna settle in SNKs favor or something, because this wouldn't be going on as long as this is if SE had proof that SNK gave consent to use their characters in the manga
Click to expand...

SNK better hope so. Suing one of the biggest corporate entities in the business was bold, the raid being unnecessary. I don't know how the legal system works there, but if SE can throw their weight around and they decide to do so, can't really blame them.
 
D

Dremark

Banned
KoopaTheCasual said:
No, you see, any chance to hate on SE, even if they're not the primary aggressors, must be taken because reasons.
Click to expand...

I would say infringing on SNK's intellectual properties would make them the primary aggressor.

Unless the previous information I read regarding this was false they are completely at fault.
 
L

Loona

Member
According to an article the Professor at Madman's Cafe referenced some time ago, SNKP may have chosen to file a criminal complaint instead of a more standard legal procedure due to both costs and the time it would take - they don't exactly have deep pockets, so it was an understandable choice, if not a very nice one:

Also noteworthly, this is a pretty long column with insights from a lawyer in Japan regarding the recent SquareEnix case. The article is written in Japanese and it's a bit too much for me to translate, but I'm posting the URL in case anyone who can read is interested.
http://otapol.jp/2014/09/post-1542_3.html


In particular, this article made a good point that SNKP may have decided to file a criminal case instead of sueing Square Enix because it doesn't cost much as much money.

If you sue someone it can take an year or so before the case gets settled, and in the meanwhile SNKP would have had to spend quite some legal fees. Instead they filed a criminal case, which still needs some legal costs to get things going but after that, you pretty much leave the police to do everything. Which sounds effective, but since you're leaving the police to do everything, you have no control over the case past that.
Click to expand...

Maybe SE is trying to discourage this sort of thing in the future by going ahead and countering with a legal procedure that will inflict those costs anyway...


Considering the Sega situation, I hope in the very least this gets SNK and Sega to cooperate for the sake of this unpleasant situation, and possibly other projects in the future, since they have so much in common (why yes, SNK x Sega is my dream crossover).


I might just stop my Final Fantasy XI subscription, since lately I only login to accumulate that game's periodic bonuses - I considered it before, but frankly, why would I help SE make money when they're taking this route instead of going with a less antagonistic response?...
 
L

Loona

Member
Silky said:
So is High Score Girl supposed to be good
Click to expand...

This was my impression of it, which I posted in the MMCafe topic I linked to:

I became aware of it several months ago and had a look, despite the ugly art - unlikable protagonist kid, the titular girl seemed like a prick beyond reasonable expectations (there's probably a way to do "tsundere" right, but I don't think that was it)... some schematics on how the game in question worked were alright though.
For the most part, it seemed to live off nostalgia, as the actual relationship bit seemed weak - then again, it's been a while.
Click to expand...

Mind you, I didn't read the whole thing, so it's mostly an impression on its beginning.
 
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