Im not sure how you got that out of my statement, but okay.
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#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
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Im not sure how you got that out of my statement, but okay.
It started out with a bunch of bogus accusations of corruption because of someone's sex life.
The nonsense was not added later.
If you had to draw a line between pro and anti-gamergate I think whether you support the organized boycotts might be a good one. In contrast to all the other stances and ideas floating around gamergate the boycotts are organized and well defined, they are a concret action with a concrete goal, and they've had some success.
(This stuff: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzQY4mBIAAAUq7U.jpg:large)
(This stuff: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzQY4mBIAAAUq7U.jpg:large)
tonysidaway
Member
Quality journalism? No, it started because the game journalists wouldn't repeat 4chan and Reddit crap about somebody's private life. The journalists weren't tabloidy enough for the thugs.
It basically turns anyone who isn't a default game developer/gamer (read: white straight male) into a political being by virtue of their gender/sexuality/skin color. Their bodies are politicized simply for existing as non-defaults.
lol what? You have a link?
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Thank you.
This wasn't started because a journalist gave the Walking Dead a 2. Or because Microsoft paid Square Enix for Tomb Raider....
.... This was strictly a brigade to tear down a women who made a free game no one had to pay for, yet her bitter ex BF decided to put their sex lives on public display and used her small, low volume popularity to accuse her of sexing up journalist for good reviews - when in fact the game was free and next to nearly no one, knew about.
Riposte
Member
Hahaha, I never expected I would run into "daily dose" again.
It's kind of a stretch to call it a rape joke. The "joke" is pretty much that image, which is gross one way or another and it wouldn't stop getting posted. There's no context to the image besides that. The posts would usually just say something like "daily dose".
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
IIRC Jaffe had some issue with MSNBC in the past because they gave Calling all Cars a bad review.
tonysidaway
Member
Then how do you think the game journalists should have reacted to the Zoe Quinn affair, and why do you think their behaviour was affected by the fact that some of them had met her?
KnowYourMeme call it (TW):
Daily Dose / Piccolo Dick refers to an animated GIF of the Dragon Ball character Piccolo anally raping Vegeta.
and "Images related to the gif are often not aimed at representing the GIF, but instead just contain the colors green and purple. The idea of this is to make the combination of the two colors evolve as a trigger in a person’s subconscious that results in him being reminded of the gif each time he sees those colors"
Isn't that the reference then? And Vivian James being a reference to that rape meme?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
People need to start reading this thread.
What Riposte means is that there's no context with which to define it as rape. There's nothing showing that Vegeta's unwilling, it's just three frames or so of two Dragonball Z characters having anal sex. I'm sure there's fanfiction about that.
His description is correct, as far as I've seen it. It's like goatse; it's a shock image.
To be fair, everyone of 4chan calls one another a ____ fag. It's not meant like, 'fag'.
BobbyRobby
Member
He has gone on record saying he doesn't support them, but yes, he is sympathetic to some of their concerns.
That is a neutral position.
Why are you eager to paint him as an opponent?
Thanks for the clarification. Still incredibly weird that Gamergaters choose to make a reference to it in their color palette.
Doesn't matter. It's wrong and offensive.
He has a personal grudge against Alexander, so of course he's willing to be sympathetic with Gamergate to various extents.
Doesn't matter. It's wrong and offensive.
He has a personal grudge against Alexander, so of course he's willing to be sympathetic with Gamergate to various extents.
Well it was used as a shock image, but the artist apparently does a lot of other gay BDSM themed images involving video game and anime characters.
The "daily dose" and "green and purple" in-jokes come from the image getting posted so damn often that people would remember it whenever someone brought up a tangentially related topic or an image with the same color palette. Basically just a vulgar internet version of "don't think of a pink elephant." The image itself stopped getting posted a long time ago.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
tl:dr the author of the escapist piece was a backer of one of the interviewed developers and didn't disclose this.
Incredibly ironic given the huge outcry gamergate makes over every connection in journalism. But of all of problems I had with that article it's a pretty minor one. Also the writing tone of that blog post is over the top.
Riposte
Member
The color scheme may be a reference, I really wouldn't know. But the meme is exactly that image and nothing else, two male DBZ characters going at it drawn in a grotesque fashion, and it got posted every single day with reckless abandon for 4chan's (lax) SFW rules. A "forced" meme where how much it was forced became the joke ("daily dose"). Their description seems more like a reference to how graphic the image is, because there's no sort of concept of consent in it. It's literally just hardcore yaoi posted for shock value. Although, that doesn't diminish the fact "Vivian" might be based on aggressively tasteless image.
EDIT: Ah, beaten.
Family Fry
Member
Well I'm inclined to believe it was a god damn stupid retweet, unfortunate coincidence or not.
Anyways, after you mentioned a quote from his twitter I took a look and noticed he said this.
Accused...of being..a misogonyst? I hope he didn't mean this post...
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Just when I was thinking he was coming around. Oh well.
Don't forget him handwaving the sexual harassment by Josh Mattingly right here on NeoGAF (and of course this gem). Guy's a piece of work, but I was hoping this recent distancing from #GG meant some progress.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Boogie wasn't doing himself any favors trying to make this thread about him and how nobody liking GamerGate was hurtful to him personally.
I hope he is seeking help but damn.
Didn't he imply it would be his daughter's fault if she got raped or something to that extent?
I hope he is seeking help but damn.
Didn't he imply it would be his daughter's fault if she got raped or something to that extent?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
dp
MHWilliams
Member
Damn shame that Boogie got banned. Alas, it is what it is.
Alternatively, they do both? Again, the games media isn't one huge group. There's a ton of different people writing about different things. People have written about poor business practices, poor work practices, diversity in game dev, and more. I can point out those articles at a wide variety of sites. But those same sites have had articles about social commentary.
Hell, on the last topic, I wrote about my personal feelings about Battlefield Hardline, a game I won't play because I retain a specific relationship with the police.
A review is the writer's retelling of their experience with the game. That covers a wide variety of areas.
This is true. All this costs money, which is why there's ad revenue, funding campaigns, or subscriptions as possible way to draw money for a website. But again, people worry about ads, but most ad and editorial departments are separate. Editorial doesn't know about marketing and marketing has no clue what's coming from editorial.
That's how you have things like USgamer current Borderlands: Pre-Sequel ads running alongside a 2.5/5 review.
Interesting.
Alternatively, they do both? Again, the games media isn't one huge group. There's a ton of different people writing about different things. People have written about poor business practices, poor work practices, diversity in game dev, and more. I can point out those articles at a wide variety of sites. But those same sites have had articles about social commentary.
Hell, on the last topic, I wrote about my personal feelings about Battlefield Hardline, a game I won't play because I retain a specific relationship with the police.
A review is the writer's retelling of their experience with the game. That covers a wide variety of areas.
This is true. All this costs money, which is why there's ad revenue, funding campaigns, or subscriptions as possible way to draw money for a website. But again, people worry about ads, but most ad and editorial departments are separate. Editorial doesn't know about marketing and marketing has no clue what's coming from editorial.
That's how you have things like USgamer current Borderlands: Pre-Sequel ads running alongside a 2.5/5 review.
Interesting.
If anyone wants to see the harassment Devi-Ever faced (TW: transphobia), here's lots of images of the tweets she received: http://imgur.com/a/qwcXt
And here's Brianna Wu's attempt to reach out to Gamergate: http://spacekatgal.tumblr.com/post/99950527903/changing-the-new-normal
And here's Brianna Wu's attempt to reach out to Gamergate: http://spacekatgal.tumblr.com/post/99950527903/changing-the-new-normal
didn't he even make a fucking video calling them out on harassing women? lmao what a fucking tool bag.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Ugh, this is actually heart breaking to read in a way.
I express increasing cynicism that it will ever be possible to bridge this gap.
Kind of demonstrates the sort of opportunist scumbag Milo is. Even in this thread, people have been like, "can you show me current proof", and, well, here you have it.
The Tofunator
Member
Wait, people on NeoGAF were trying to drive out an Obsidian concept artist because the artist was Asian? Holy crap, that's messed up.
MHWilliams
Member
What now?
The Tofunator
Member
Damn shame that Boogie got banned. Alas, it is what it is.
Alternatively, they do both? Again, the games media isn't one huge group. There's a ton of different people writing about different things. People have written about poor business practices, poor work practices, diversity in game dev, and more. I can point out those articles at a wide variety of sites. But those same sites have had articles about social commentary.
Hell, on the last topic, I wrote about my personal feelings about Battlefield Hardline, a game I won't play because I retain a specific relationship with the police.
A review is the writer's retelling of their experience with the game. That covers a wide variety of areas.
This is true. All this costs money, which is why there's ad revenue, funding campaigns, or subscriptions as possible way to draw money for a website. But again, people worry about ads, but most ad and editorial departments are separate. Editorial doesn't know about marketing and marketing has no clue what's coming from editorial.
That's how you have things like USgamer current Borderlands: Pre-Sequel ads running alongside a 2.5/5 review.
Is it weird that my biggest fear is that games journalism will go the way of much modern discourse and it will try to base itself around "personalities" rather than content? The reason I am not a fan of Ms. Alexander's actions is that it appears much of this has been an attempt to become a "personality" ala GiantBomb because being a journalist / writer ain't paying the bills. I've always thought that was her goal based on her comments about GiantBomb in the past / wanting to join the GB crew as much as she can. The same worry about things moving towards YT videos; those are personality driven places, where facts are optional and opinions are sacrosanct.
You know way more about the industry than my uneducated butt; so curious as to your thoughts about this. Is this just an attempt to move towards cults of personality / places that aim towards a specific viewpoint and just double down on that viewpoint & fanbase? (examples would be MSNBC / Fox News types of places). Feels like major journalism as a whole is moving towards awkward territories that are about reinforcing people's existing beliefs rather than reporting facts and being willing to challenge uncomfortable truths. Or am I just also only seeing the things that reinforce my own beliefs?
Seems like a lot of people are just wanting to be right (right and unhappy).
How does one have a discussion if it's just people wanting to assert their opinions onto others. It's not a discussion and it's incredibly sad that it so difficult to move forward.
Some people don't have any self control just to ignore something they don't like. I mean you can voice your opinion on it in a respectful manner but jeez the amount of abuse that results from it, is just awful.
If GG really want to be taken seriously, they really need to voice clearly what exactly it is that they want. What courses of action will they take to reach said goal.
The use of a twitter hashtag is clearly doing nothing except causing destruction to people's lives.
Also, quite frankly the KotakuInAction group is not doing anything positive for Gamergate, I mean trying to boycott Kotaku for what exactly?
How does one have a discussion if it's just people wanting to assert their opinions onto others. It's not a discussion and it's incredibly sad that it so difficult to move forward.
Some people don't have any self control just to ignore something they don't like. I mean you can voice your opinion on it in a respectful manner but jeez the amount of abuse that results from it, is just awful.
If GG really want to be taken seriously, they really need to voice clearly what exactly it is that they want. What courses of action will they take to reach said goal.
The use of a twitter hashtag is clearly doing nothing except causing destruction to people's lives.
Also, quite frankly the KotakuInAction group is not doing anything positive for Gamergate, I mean trying to boycott Kotaku for what exactly?
MHWilliams
Member
Honestly, that's happening in a number of places, not just games journalism.
Vox is built around Ezra Klein, who was formerly at the Washington Post. FiveThirtyEight is Nate Silver. Re/Code is Walt Mossberg and Kara Swisher.
In our neck of the woods, Polygon was built on that model and even USgamer has Jeremy Parish.
But the best example is just looking at the frontpage of GAF's gaming section.
There's a Giant Bomb thread on here and Penny Arcade and they're largely sustained by the fanbase. They love the Giant Bomb crew and that means they discuss and signal boost all of their work. I'd honestly love to be in that position. So would many writers.
Journalism is based on trust. You have to trust that we're telling you the truth, or you won't read. You don't read, we're out of a job. The personality model is aimed directly at building and sustaining that trust. With that model you have people who you like, so you trust them, so you consume their work. That's also largely how Youtubers work.
faceless007
Member
Not exactly. But what he said isn't much better.
https://twitter.com/davidscottjaffe/status/425452679460962305
https://twitter.com/davidscottjaffe/status/425446673578356736
Honestly, that's happening in a number of places, not just games journalism.
Vox is built around Ezra Klein, who was formerly at the Washington Post. FiveThirtyEight is Nate Silver. Re/Code is Walt Mossberg and Kara Swisher.
In our neck of the woods, Polygon was built on that model and even USgamer has Jeremy Parish.
But the best example is just looking at the frontpage of GAF's gaming section.
There's a Giant Bomb thread on here and Penny Arcade and they're largely sustained by the fanbase. They love the Giant Bomb crew and that means they discuss and signal boost all of their work. I'd honestly love to be in that position. So would many writers.
Journalism is based on trust. You have to trust that we're telling you the truth, or you won't read. You don't read, we're out of a job. The personality model is aimed directly at building and sustaining that trust. With that model you have people who you like, so you trust them, so you consume their work. That's also largely how Youtubers work.
Do you think that is the way it should be?
Disclosure; huge fan of 538 and PA, but mostly the comic & Child's Play - but I don't expect them to be journalists per se. 538 because I also work in analytics and so I love looking at how Nate goes about setting up the analysis and the assumptions and questions.
I don't think there's as bold a line between Personality and Content as you might think.
I'm a big fan of Giant Bomb, and yes it is largely because of entertainment reasons, which is where the personality mostly goes.
But when they talk about games, because I'm spending time watching and listening to these guys for hours and hours a week, I get to know their personalities, and how they align with mine. This is especially useful when it comes to reviews. Everyone is going to approach a game differently, and because I'm so familiar with their personalities, I can use that to get an even better idea of a game than just a stock review by someone I've never heard of.
It also doesn't stop them, especially Patrick, from being able to put on the investigative reporting hat when it's needed. He's still one of the best in the business when it comes to straight up Scoops, but the fact is that a 24 hour news site for games ends up a barren hellscape. If you want sustainable traffic that doesn't rely on big current events or games or hot scoops then you need something more. Whether that be editorials, dev interviews, vaguely game related bullshit, or quality video content.
Yeah, the Games Media is probably moving steadily towards more personality driven content, but that doesn't mean the old kind will disappear entirely, nor is its quality necessarily compromised.
I'm a big fan of Giant Bomb, and yes it is largely because of entertainment reasons, which is where the personality mostly goes.
But when they talk about games, because I'm spending time watching and listening to these guys for hours and hours a week, I get to know their personalities, and how they align with mine. This is especially useful when it comes to reviews. Everyone is going to approach a game differently, and because I'm so familiar with their personalities, I can use that to get an even better idea of a game than just a stock review by someone I've never heard of.
It also doesn't stop them, especially Patrick, from being able to put on the investigative reporting hat when it's needed. He's still one of the best in the business when it comes to straight up Scoops, but the fact is that a 24 hour news site for games ends up a barren hellscape. If you want sustainable traffic that doesn't rely on big current events or games or hot scoops then you need something more. Whether that be editorials, dev interviews, vaguely game related bullshit, or quality video content.
Yeah, the Games Media is probably moving steadily towards more personality driven content, but that doesn't mean the old kind will disappear entirely, nor is its quality necessarily compromised.
MHWilliams
Member
Is it the way it should be? I'm not completely sure, but it's the environment we're in. Outside of straight news reporting, there little reason to not be upfront with the journalist's POV. There's a gulf between a story about the journalist and a story about the subject through the eyes of the journalist. It's important to stay on the latter side, but every journalist affects the overall story. I can research and dig in to a subject, but you'll probably get a more interesting interview/editorial by some intimately familiar with the subject matter. That's why sites like Shoryuken.com can survive. That's a specific POV, a specific personality. Editorial in that fashion is akin to professional blogging.
Our parents trusted "The New York Times," whereas we acknowledge that a certain set of people make the NYT what it is. Personality-driven journalism shifts the trust bond from the outlet to the person. You may not like Kotaku, but you trust Jason. The rest of Destructoid may not be for you, but you follow Max Scoville. That's completely different from the days where the trust bond was with a newspaper's masthead, not any particular writer. And occasionally you build something like Giant Bomb, where you have a while host of personalities in one place.
Plus it's a good gateway for others who aren't into a specific subject. I don't read car blogs, but I'll watch Top Gear for Jeremy, Hammond, and James May. They're my gateway into that world and they impart solid, factual information while entertaining.
So, I don't think it's a bad thing as long as those individuals stay ethical and remain cognizant of the subject.
Here's more in the overall idea if you're interested. There's lecture notes and the lecture in question at the link.
http://pressthink.org/2014/02/featu...se-model-in-digital-journalism-lecture-notes/
Good morning.
I'm here to request my ban.
As a consumer of videogame media, I don't feel, from being a part of the NeoGAF community, neither correctly represented nor safe anymore by the current moderation line.
Thanks to the community however for having informed and entertained me for all these years. It was a privilege to shoot pixels with you and cheer and cry at media create sales.
I'm here to request my ban.
As a consumer of videogame media, I don't feel, from being a part of the NeoGAF community, neither correctly represented nor safe anymore by the current moderation line.
Thanks to the community however for having informed and entertained me for all these years. It was a privilege to shoot pixels with you and cheer and cry at media create sales.
MrCunningham
Member
Roger Ebert actually addressed this quite a few times in different blog posts while he was still alive. Yes he did have a lot of friends in the film making business and he has expressed that it has been hard to keep his objectionable views as a critic separate from his personal feelings towards people. He has said that he would decline VIP special treatment, free swag and perks that film studios would present to him for film premiers because he didn't want it to cloud his judgement as a film critic. I'm too lazy to go and look up the articles he has written about this, but they are out there.
What really? That's crazy that this even happened.
BlastProcessing
Member
(laugh) Right, because you couldn't just, you know, stop coming here.
What a drama queen. Peace.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Sooo what do you mean? That was all really unclear.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Quote
Member
No style, no substance.
I'm surprised it hasn't been granted yet, actually.
I love all gamers. Is it OK to love all gamers and therefore not feel strongly about this topic one way or another? Just wanted to know and then I'll be on my way to another thread where I can contribute more to the conversation.
No. All content relating to video games is banned from NeoGAF. You are cast into the outer darkness for partaking in the forbidden fruit of electronic entertainment.
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