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[Cornbread78]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-WTAKIAIOQ

Lol, awesome commercial

#flashbacks

 

[Wynnebeck]

Don't forget that they CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against!

Do you think MS is just going to let Sony have a 30% increase in power just like that?

 

[Jack cw]

Both Sony and MS had their next gen reveal on the same day. Sony got great reactions, MS got bad reactions.
MS learned that the public favored the PS4 model over theirs, which made them get rid of the DRM stuff at first, the mandatory kinect later.
You are telling me it had all nothing to do with Sony and the PS4 doing so well?
Implementing stuff that works well for the competitors and learning/stealing from them is exactly how competition works.

Wut? PS4 was unveiled in late February 2013, Xbone was sometime in April... Shortly before E3 the DRM stuff ermerged (Adam Orth, remember?) and E3 is well known. MS learned, that the public didn't want to be fucked over and did everything to fight this anti consumer bullshit and not that PS4 was better, that came after E3 and is a secondary effect of the whole dilemma. Again, Sony only used the momentum, but the whole concept and especially DRM had nothing to do with competition and it certainly wasn't in the consumers interest, like you stated in your original "competition is good for the consumers" post. All I want to prove is that this thinking of "competition is good when there is parity" can be wrong and this very topic shows that it could even become dangerous for the consumer.

And yes I tell you that PS4 has way more to offer and sells because of other reason than simply doing right what Microsoft did wrong. It sells a brand, a lifestlyle product, the premiss of the strongest system for multi games, the best value for the money, a paywall where the consumer gets something for and the fact that all the money is invested in a system from someone that wouldn't burn your rights once a certain marketshare has been conquered.

I don't need to tell you that cars and consoles are like apples and oranges.

 

[regenhuber88]

Wut? PS4 was unveiled in late February 2013, Xbone was sometime in April... Shortly before E3 the DRM stuff ermerged (Adam Orth, remember?) and E3 is well known. MS learned, that the public didn't want to be fucked over and did everything to fight this anti consumer bullshit and not that PS4 was better, that came after E3 and is a secondary effect of the whole dilemma. Again, Sony only used the momentum, but the whole concept and especially DRM had nothing to do with competition and it certainly wasn't in the consumers interest, like you stated in your original "competition is good for the consumers" post. All I want to prove is that this thinking of "competition is good when there is parity" can be wrong and this very topic shows that it could even become dangerous for the consumer.

And yes I tell you that PS4 has way more to offer and sells because of other reason than simply doing right what Microsoft did wrong. It sells a brand, a lifestlyle product, the premiss of the strongest system for multi games, the best value for the money, a paywall where the consumer gets something for and the fact that all the money is invested in a system from someone that wouldn't burn your rights once a certain marketshare has been conquered.

I don't need to tell you that cars and consoles are like apples and oranges.

Well the prices were unveiled at E3 right?
Anyway the bold paragraph really proves that there is no sense in discussing with you since you mix up emotional fanboy opinions with facts.
I used to have NES, SNES, Gameboy, SEGA Master System, PS1, PS2, Xbox 360/One.
So I really don't care about manufacturers.
I will eventually get a PS4 when there are more exclusives out

 

[siah]

And yes I tell you that PS4 has way more to offer and sells because of other reason than simply doing right what Microsoft did wrong. It sells a brand, a lifestlyle product, the premiss of the strongest system for multi games, the best value for the money, a paywall where the consumer gets something for and the fact that all the money is invested in a system from someone that wouldn't burn your rights once a certain marketshare has been conquered.

A "lifestyle" product..really?

 

[Dead Prince]

Today's judgment day for Pachter vs GAF.

 

[Stereogatari]

A "lifestyle" product..really?

I understand what he means by that, but it's hard to put it in proper terms. He means it's like how people gawk over their smartphones. There's a subculture behind it owning a games console, especially clear with the nostalgic marketing Sony did last year. Sony's subculture is naturally stronger because their lineage goes back to the PS1 and there are more games associated with PlayStation than XBox.

Well the prices were unveiled at E3 right?
Anyway the bold paragraph really proves that there is no sense in discussing with you since you mix up emotional fanboy opinions with facts.
I used to have NES, SNES, Gameboy, SEGA Master System, PS1, PS2, Xbox 360/One.
So I really don't care about manufacturers.
I will eventually get a PS4 when there are more exclusives out

You said this:

Both Sony and MS had their next gen reveal on the same day. Sony got great reactions, MS got bad reactions.
MS learned that the public favored the PS4 model over theirs, which made them get rid of the DRM stuff at first, the mandatory kinect later.
You are telling me it had all nothing to do with Sony and the PS4 doing so well?
Implementing stuff that works well for the competitors and learning/stealing from them is exactly how competition works.

Which is wrong. MS was getting bad reactions independent of Sony's good reactions around the time of DRMgate. Sony simply rode the wave that communities like GAF had created, and then after a while the anti-MS opinion merged with a pro-Sony one as Sony continued to build up a snowball of customer goodwill.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Today's judgment day for Pachter vs GAF.

Think the judgement has already been handed down.

 

[wenis]

Think the judgement has already been handed down.

Have sales come out?

 

[Lemondish]

Have sales come out?

I feel like Aqua will have to post many more times to get through the din with the message that Pachter is no more qualified to make this claim as you or I.

 

[Stilton Disco]

I understand what he means by that, but it's hard to put it in proper terms. He means it's like how people gawk over their smartphones. There's a subculture behind it owning a games console, especially clear with the nostalgic marketing Sony did last year. Sony's subculture is naturally stronger because their lineage goes back to the PS1.

A console as part of sub cultural identity isn't just a 'gamer' thing either. Technophiles like having the latest cool gadgets regardless of how often they use them (not unlike most of our game backlogs, in a way), and there's the karaoke nuts and party throwers that like the multimedia aspects and casual titles like Singstar and Just Dance. A lot of people buy stuff just because it fits their lifestyle, and the PS4 definitely fits the bill for a lot of niches.

I wouldn't say it's one of the top reasons it's sold so well, but it is a factor, no matter how small.

That was pretty much how Nintendo described the Wii infact, when it came to its appeal to non traditional gamers.

Titles like Wii Fit, Wii sports etc weren't 'games', they were 'lifestyle accessories'.

 

[hagege_s]

Have sales come out?

Almost.

More well-informed GAFfers have ruled that out already (check the NPD Predictions thread). It's not happening...so there's no point in making hypotheticals.

 

[Jack cw]

A "lifestyle" product..really?

I understand what he means by that, but it's hard to put it in proper terms. He means it's like how people gawk over their smartphones. There's a subculture behind it owning a games console, especially clear with the nostalgic marketing Sony did last year. Sony's subculture is naturally stronger because their lineage goes back to the PS1 and there are more games associated with PlayStation than XBox.

Thank you. Pretty much what this phrase was supposed to mean.

Well the prices were unveiled at E3 right?
Anyway the bold paragraph really proves that there is no sense in discussing with you since you mix up emotional fanboy opinions with facts.
I used to have NES, SNES, Gameboy, SEGA Master System, PS1, PS2, Xbox 360/One.
So I really don't care about manufacturers.
I will eventually get a PS4 when there are more exclusives out

Wonderful. You are out of arguements and call me a fanboy when I simply give you a timeline of things that happened last year and tell you legit reasons why a system sells in those masses. And pls. You dont sell 10+ million systems in 9 months with a console that you label a "better xbone". Go, look for all the surveys and the data gathered from those and you get a pretty nice summary of why people buy this console. Denial must be such a nice thing.

 

[Dead Prince]

Think the judgement has already been handed down.

im still going to wait for the pie chart to make sure of that ;P

 

[x-Lundz-x]

I would think if MS really had come out on top they would have put out PR already.

 

[baconcow]

Looking forward to these numbers.

popcorn.gif

 

[crazygambit]

All I was saying is more competition = better for customer.

Not always. This is such a common misconception and it always gets thrown around in threads like these. It's pretty baffling too, since there are recent examples where everyone on GAF understood that more competition was bad for the consumer, yet they keep spouting this non sense.

Remember HD DVD? Look at the threads back in 2007 and you'll see that everyone understood a standard was necessary for HD movies on disk (i.e. a monopoly). It's much worse having to support both formats, since you'll need to have "n" players (where "n" is equal to the number of competing formats available) for very little additional benefit of competition.

Somehow everyone was able to see that, yet in the very comparable console market, everyone spouts the "more competition is better" banner. It's very weird, specially considering we've already seen a defacto monopoly in consoles with the PS2 and that gen turned out fine. Smaller studios didn't have to spend money porting to 6 different hardware configurations, they spent it instead on optimizing for PS2, so we ended up with better games than we would with more competition.

Now I'm not saying I wish the Xbone would go away, there's clearly a number of consoles in the market that's optimal for consumer and that number could be 3. However if it does go away, let's not pretend it would be the end of the world either.

 

[Scoot2005]

I'm starting to wonder if this guy just says these things to stay relevant or if he has some kind of mental deficiency. Is this guy a high functioning psychotic or something?

 

[RandyBobandy]

I would think if MS really had come out on top they would have put out PR already.

Pretty much. Tonight we'll be anti-climatic

 

[spatenfloot]

Not always. This is such a common misconception and it always gets thrown around in threads like these. It's pretty baffling too, since there are recent examples where everyone on GAF understood that more competition was bad for the consumer, yet they keep spouting this non sense.

Remember HD DVD? Look at the threads back in 2007 and you'll see that everyone understood a standard was necessary for HD movies on disk (i.e. a monopoly). It's much worse having to support both formats, since you'll need to have "n" players (where "n" is equal to the number of competing formats available) for very little additional benefit of competition.

Somehow everyone was able to see that, yet in the very comparable console market, everyone spouts the "more competition is better" banner. It's very weird, specially considering we've already seen a defacto monopoly in consoles with the PS2 and that gen turned out fine. Smaller studios didn't have to spend money porting to 6 different hardware configurations, they spent it instead on optimizing for PS2, so we ended up with better games than we would with more competition.

Now I'm not saying I wish the Xbone would go away, there's clearly a number of consoles in the market that's optimal for consumer and that number could be 3. However if it does go away, let's not pretend it would be the end of the world either.

The problem is that too many people think that competition means everyone has an equal market share.
Universal is unquestionably competition for Disney in Orlando, but they have only a 20% share of the market. Yet, it still drives Disney to improve their offerings.

 

[Neuromancer]

I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if MS exited the console space. A faster, leaner and smarter company
would come along to fill the vacuum.

 

[IAmRandom31]

I'm starting to wonder if this guy just says these things to stay relevant or if he has some kind of mental deficiency. Is this guy a high functioning psychotic or something?

It had to of been a pure revenue article. No way he forgot about the Destiny bundle, white PS4 standard SKU release and the 5 week month.

 

[John Bender]

I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if MS exited the console space. A faster, leaner and smarter company
would come along to fill the vacuum.

Or no new company at all. Two console companies are enough.

 

[RandyBobandy]

Or no new company at all. Two console companies are enough.

Let's not pretend that Nintendo would be competitive with Sony

 

[Xenon]

Today's judgment day for Pachter vs GAF.

Speak for yourself I am hoping he is right. There would be Viserys level meltdowns.

 

[Corto]

I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if MS exited the console space. A faster, leaner and smarter company
would come along to fill the vacuum.

Amazon is already with its foot at the door. I wouldn't be surprised that when they really make a proper entrance in this space one of the current players will bail out.

 

[Hasney]

Speak for yourself I am hoping he is right. There would be Viserys level meltdowns.

We already as good as know he's not.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if MS exited the console space. A faster, leaner and smarter company
would come along to fill the vacuum.

I would certainly be sad if nobody takes over some of the MS IPs that are good/really matter. Halo, Gears, Forza, Rallisport, Mechwarrior, etc.

I honestly don't care who does hardware as long as it's good, reliable and performs as well as (or better than) top of the line PCs. Software/IP is another thing.

 

[Solaire of Astora]

Let's not pretend that Nintendo would be competitive with Sony

I don't see why they couldn't. If their next system is a gimmick-free* gaming system and is on par (similar power/architecture)with the ps5, then why not? Whenever the question of xbone losing third party support due to low sales pops up, it is met with near unanimous answers stating that the xbone is so similar in architecture that it would be crazy to write off support. If Nintendo gets the finger out and works on network infrastructure, third party relations, such as good dev tools and documentation, then I don't see why they couldn't compete with Sony.

Of course, that's a big "if". Someone want to give me a job at Nintendo?


* I hate to imply that the WiiU game pad is a gimmick, but it's probably responsible for a fair chunk of the WiiU's problems.

It had to of been a pure revenue article.

Have... It's always have. Never of. Same goes for could have, should have etc.

Spoiler

Sorry. Hate to be a grammar Nazi, but one of my ESL students started writing of instead of have because she read it on the internet and assumed it was correct.

 

[Night Angel]

I would certainly be sad if nobody takes over some of the MS IPs that are good/really matter. Halo, Gears, Forza, Rallisport, Mechwarrior, etc.

I honestly don't care who does hardware as long as it's good, reliable and performs as well as (or better than) top of the line PCs. Software/IP is another thing.

Looking forward to that $1000 console future, eh?

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Looking forward to that $1000 console future, eh?

Hahahaha, yeah, I should have said "top of the average line" instead.

 

[witness]

I would think if MS really had come out on top they would have put out PR already.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. They would have shouted it from the rooftops already.

 

[DieH@rd]

Today is NPD day?

What's the ETA?

 

[d9b]

The anticipation is killing me... Are we there yet?

 

[Servbot24]

I think maybe One will outsell PS4 this month.

Do I get a 50 page thread now? Because me and Pach have about an equal level of conviction and commitment behind our statements.

 

[Jack cw]

Speak for yourself I am hoping he is right. There would be Viserys level meltdowns.

There wasn't any meltdown in December. Why should there be one now when one system has a comfortable lead anyway?

 

[Jill Sandwich]

Nearly there, want to play I Spy?

 

[FullMetaltech]

Today is NPD day?

What's the ETA?

Normal timeframe as always. 630 est but we might gets stuff before that.

 

[Neuromancer]

Let's not pretend that Nintendo would be competitive with Sony

Not this generation, no, but you never know what those crazy guys are going to do next.

I would certainly be sad if nobody takes over some of the MS IPs that are good/really matter. Halo, Gears, Forza, Rallisport, Mechwarrior, etc.

I honestly don't care who does hardware as long as it's good, reliable and performs as well as (or better than) top of the line PCs. Software/IP is another thing.

That's true and knowing MS, they'd hoard all their IPs.

 

[Tak3n]

We should have a bet on how many threads there will be created if patcher is wrong?

I can almost guarantee how many there will be if he is right

Zero

 

[statham]

I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if MS exited the console space.

would you cry if Sony exited?

 

[Impeccable]

We should have a bet on how many threads there will be created if patcher is wrong?

I can almost guarantee how many there will be if he is right

Zero

I'll bet one either way - the NPD result thread.

And this one will get bumped either way.

 

[Scoot2005]

It had to of been a pure revenue article. No way he forgot about the Destiny bundle, white PS4 standard SKU release and the 5 week month.

Possibly. I don't know anymore. Why the hell do investors trust this guy? I understand he's actually a good tech analyst but a lot of his gaming market "predictions" don't amount to jack shit. IDK, maybe I'm wrong. I need to play some games or just get out of this discussion lol.

 

[Radec]

Today's judgment day for Pachter vs GAF.

Is this round #104 ?

 

[Neuromancer]

would you cry if Sony exited?

Probably not, I'd be bummed out though.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

would you cry if Sony exited?

I know your not talking to me but last gen there were points when it was looking pretty dire for the PS3 that I remember thinking if they just priced themselves out of the console space forever that MS would be a great 1 console.

I feel the same way conversely this gen.

 

[E-Cat]

Today's judgment day for Pachter vs GAF.

TUTUM TU-TU TUM, TUTUM TU-TU TUM, TUTUM TU-TU TUM...

 

[Boke1879]

Today is the day. So what's the general consensus? Pachter talking out of his ass?

 

[Bananajama]

Is this round #104 ?

Surely the ref needs to put a stop to this at some point?

 

[cheezcake]

I know your not talking to me but last gen there were points when it was looking pretty dire for the PS3 that I remember thinking if they just priced themselves out of the console space forever that MS would be a great 1 console.

I feel the same way conversely this gen.

Heh I remember that initial $1000 PS3 price tag here in Australia. Absolutely DOA, everyone flocked from PS2 to Xbox 360. I'm still pretty amazed that Sony managed to bring it back later in the gen.