ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Wow, go fuck yourself.
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The Pedophile Next Door
- Thread starter Messofanego
- Start date
- Status
Wow, go fuck yourself.
Eeeh, I do not think that any adult should be able to have sex with a 15 y/o kid. Adults should be allowed to do whatever, but minors should be protected, but of course, allowed to have sex with people around their age.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Holy fuck.
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
You're missing the point.. It isn't really about whether you think adults should or shouldn't have sex with children below the age of consent, it is about conflating the two. You said you don't care about the two things being conflated. Surely you understand what I am saying though about one being much worse than the other, right? One being a much bigger potential danger to society than the other.
It's not so much about whether you should prosecute that kind behaviour, it is the approach you take considering how much of a stigma in society sex offenders are. It often amounts to extra-judicial justice.
ipukespiders
Member
I think the bolded can be stated about any topic on GAF with more than one page of replies.
Sorry for cherry picking.
GraveHorizon
poop meter feature creep
From what I understand of a certain type of argument on the topic at hand, any level sexual desire for a specific group equates to definite future sex crimes against said group. So the answer is: They don't. Break out your guillotine, freddy. You've got a lot of work to do.
Moving4Motion
Banned
This is why most people won't even have the discussion, why people can't get the treatment they need and why so much awful abuse still exists to this day.
Let's execute all of humanity except asexuals just to make sure no one gets raped!
freenudemacusers
Member
i don't think it services the conversation by drawing comparisons to hetero/homosexuality.
Astral Dog
Member
Its a very difficult topic, but consider this, what is this society you speak of? is humanity so beyond these acts of depravity, and they are not humans, because they have these thoughts they didn't choose?
Because, its true, a world without paedophiles would be better, but they exist, some of them seek help, and want to live a normal life without harming others, if we ignore them, would this problem dissapear? if we put them on prison, just because they say they are paedophiles, that would fix this society you speak of? or it would create more abuse.
It's rare to come across a legitimately bad person here, but there it is.
One is much worse I completely agree, but that does not mean the lesser evil should be ignored or simply waved away as a lesser danger to society.
For starters, I do not see that one is a bigger potential danger -this is different from one individual act being worse-. I would not be surprised if non consensual adult/teen sex had a bigger incidence than plain old pedophilia. Both are real, different problems, and trying to solve one should not impinge on solving the other.
And in the bigger frame of this thread about non-criminal pedophiles, I really really really doubt that any society with laws where the age of consent coincides -or is very close- to the age of adulthood, will be open to discussion of what to do with pedophiles, if you open the discussion saying "we should drop the age of consent to 14 and do away with the old statutory rape laws". In fact, if you do that, you will see that people will believe you are trying to provoke a slippery slope of decriminalization.
So I do not see how your point of "bigger damage to society" applies here. Age of consent and sex with sexually active minors are no related to the discussion of non criminal pedophiles, so taking the opportunity to try to drop down the age of consent will only damage any chance of helping non criminal pedophiles. Bringing it into the conversation is actually opportunistic.
Aquamarine
Member
is suicide a game to you?
Frankensteiner
Banned
I agree. Comparing pedophilia to hetero/homosexuality never made sense to me. What does one's sexual orientation have anything to do with a mental disease?
cosmicblizzard
Banned
The comparison is made purely based on innate attraction I believe. I think all forms of paraphilia fall under that label in one way or another. It's just a means of saying "this is not a preference that can be changed" rather than "homosexuality=pedo/zoo/necrophilia".
You're arguing against a straw man. Although, I guess it depends on what you mean by 'non-consensual' sex.
I will just point out anyway... The reason a paedophile is a bigger danger to society is because not only is consent irrelevant, often times the question of consent is far from a child's mind. The act can only ever be a form of abuse which will more than likely have detrimental effects on the psychology of the child growing up. When you're talking about a relationship with a 15 year old child, it is much murkier ground when speaking about consent and the effects of such a relationship. Surely though, consent has far more meaning with the latter than it does with the former.
Astral Dog
Member
I would not say they are that different, it has to be the same basic attraction that every person has, regardless of their gender or sexuality.
That said the example used when that theme was introduced seemed kind of weird to me.
Frankensteiner
Banned
It can't be changed, but it can't have developed naturally. Attraction to people who haven't matured sexually is way outside of the ballpark of regular sexual development. As we've already established, orientation has nothing to do with it.
I mean to develop an attraction to people who have no business having sex. That has to be at least a mental issue.
Places where the age of consent is the age of adulthood conflate "consent" with "adult consent". It is what I am doing here. The reality is that minors will have sex with each other, and that some times, a kid will enter adulthood during a sexual relationship with another minor, but that is manageable with decent romeo and juliet laws. Trying to argue about sexual development of minors is fine, but they are still not adults and should be treated as such. In gral, adults should only have sex with adults.
I mean bigger danger in the sense of amount of people damaged, which is always a difficult thing to size up -even if there were more teens damaged, were they damaged more than the kids?-. You really cannot compare in that view.
This is not a strawman. Trying to bring up that age of consent should be dropped across the ground is not a good start for a conversation about pedophilia, and there is no logical argument that goes from "we should do something to help non criminal pedophiles" to "we should drop down age of consent as it is completely separate from adulthood". So yeah, that is a different conversation.
I'm not fully convinced comparisons to sexualities is appropriate, but this reasoning isn't very good. "Can't have developed naturally" is precisely the argument used against the notion homosexuals were born that way, too.
lol
Actually, that would be the very definition of a straw man. I never suggested once you should drop the age of consent. In fact I have repeatedly stressed that to make it clear.
My argument was about conflating the two: Paedophilia and Ephebophilia. Paedophilia is a sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Ephebophilia is an attraction to teenage girls. More specifically 15-19. In other words, young adults.
It makes sense not to conflate the two because of the stigma in society people have for Paedophilia. People assume instantly that the person will sexual abuse their children. Having a consenual relationship with a teenager however, is different to sexually abusing a child. There is no indication they are going to sexually abuse a child. That is another step entirely. That was the point I was making.
It's not about changing the age of consent, I just see treating them separately, might be a better idea.
I fail to see the larger point of the recent wave of threads related to pedophilia on this forum. Should society empathize with individuals with mental disorders? Sure, but neoGAF is absolutely wrong in selecting pedophilia as a cause to champion. I'm calling out the forum as a whole because moderators are leading the crusade.
Comparing the discrimination of pedophilia to homosexuality is logical fallacy. It's apples to oranges. There's a huge difference between consensual adults and children.
The children are the victims whether it's rape, molestation, indecent exposure, child pornography, or whatever. The rhetorical questions in the thread of why pedophiles are targets of violent crimes in prisons is pretty simple stupid. Children can't protect themselves. Why should anyone commend a decent adult from not acting on their sexual urges?
Comparing the discrimination of pedophilia to homosexuality is logical fallacy. It's apples to oranges. There's a huge difference between consensual adults and children.
The children are the victims whether it's rape, molestation, indecent exposure, child pornography, or whatever. The rhetorical questions in the thread of why pedophiles are targets of violent crimes in prisons is pretty simple stupid. Children can't protect themselves. Why should anyone commend a decent adult from not acting on their sexual urges?
cosmicblizzard
Banned
There's really not enough research due to the stigma, but what's there could make it go either way. The belief that victims of child molestation develop that kind of attraction themselves has mostly been debunked, making it far more likely to be a thing people are born with.
IIRC, there was a case where someone had an attraction to children due to a tumor, which after being removed, "cured" him. Probably a bizarre and isolated case, but that should really tell people this needs to be studied more.
A pedophile has no real choice, it's no different than having most mental illness. I would definitely emphasize with a pedophile trying to do everything in their power to not harm children. Really is a rough hand to be dealt, forced to suppress your sexual urges completely, and having to live with a ton of fear and possible suicidal ideation. It does sound like a broken life, similar to how my clinical depression makes me feel, except I can actually recieve treatment for my illness unlike a lot of these pedophiles. It's not that hard to feel empathy.
Until we get some kinda neuroscience advancement, the premise of this thread is the only way you'll be able to reduce victims. Cracking down with some of the minority report shit I've seen in this thread would make it much worse. You'd have even more pedophiles unwilling to seek help/come forward than now. Which would just lead to more eventual offenders. The thread premise really makes a lot of sense.
Until we get some kinda neuroscience advancement, the premise of this thread is the only way you'll be able to reduce victims. Cracking down with some of the minority report shit I've seen in this thread would make it much worse. You'd have even more pedophiles unwilling to seek help/come forward than now. Which would just lead to more eventual offenders. The thread premise really makes a lot of sense.
The reason people feel this is important is precisely because violence and sexual assault against children is so incredibly destructive and terrible. If this condition can be talked about and if those who are born this way can feel like they can come forward to medical professionals and get help, we would have it happen less.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Treatment in prison is a whole different can of words. It says right there in the OP:
This thread is more about pre-offense pedophiles.
But I do agree that we should discuss other mental disorders as well including the potentially harmful ones. Stuff like ASPD/Sociopathy/Psycopathy/Sadistic personality disorder/etc. I personally find it all pretty fascinating.
Frankensteiner
Banned
Yeah, cause bringing up bigoted reasons from the past to debunk me for, god forbid, calling attraction to children unnatural. In before "that's also exactly what they said about homosexuality".
I'm asking questions dude, relax. I'm not even trying to attack your precious pedophiles. Can't we have a discussion here without anyone being called an asshole for not agreeing with your opinions? Guess not. I'll stay out of all these GAF threads regarding this subject if it's all weird posts like these.
Look, someone who makes sense.
Dreamgazer
Member
Nothing else you said bears addressing, but this selection right here demonstrates perfectly why these discussions should only include adult participants.
Maybe we are arguing the same thing.lol
Actually, that would be the very definition of a straw man. I never suggested once you should drop the age of consent. In fact I have repeatedly stressed that to make it clear.
My argument was about conflating the two: Paedophilia and Ephebophilia. Paedophilia is a sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Ephebophilia is an attraction to teenage girls. More specifically 15-19. In other words, young adults.
It makes sense not to conflate the two because of the stigma in society people have for Paedophilia. People assume instantly that the person will sexual abuse their children. Having a consenual relationship with a teenager however, is different to sexually abusing a child. There is no indication they are going to sexually abuse a child. That is another step entirely. That was the point I was making.
It's not about changing the age of consent, I just see treating them separately, might be a better idea.
But I see not a lot of benefit in doing the careful distinction about ephebophilia. You are still not going to help pedophiles by this; families still see their "young adults" as kids, and by going "bu but but ephebophilia is a different thing" you are not going to diminish the pain of people whose 15y/o daughter was abused by a 30y/o and who are claiming the head of the "pedophile". Ephebophiles will always be skirting a fine line about having sex with people who maybe can or maybe cannot, legally or psychologically, consent, so what's the benefit. Yeah they get a heavier stigma than deserved, but again, the line is fine, as you say biology is whacky with teenagers, mental development is different for every person, etc etc so ephebophiles are still in heavy danger of having sex with a non consenting minor.
Honestly, if you tell me you are an ephebophile, I am not going to just keep my teenager daughter away from you, but just give you access to my 6 y/o, and viceversa if you say you are a pedophile. Why would the parents of teenager kids want the stigma against ephebophiles to drop?
Frankensteiner
Banned
Much like sex.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
I'm amazed this thread is still open and getting replies. The people showing empathy towards paedophiles (harming children or not) is making me sick to my stomach.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Can't believe that there are some in here who actually like to propose people suffering this to castrate or kill themselves even.
What the fuck are you doing playing God?
What the fuck are you doing playing God?
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
They aren't people.
gud one
Read my post after that, his fear was not that he would harm his own children sexually, but rather child services and the police would constantly harass him and his family because of who he is and try to split them apart. Such thoughts were hell to him.
Would the therapist contact the police and child services unless they thought he was in fact a serious threat?
dead souls
Member
And they should. A pedophile shouldn't be trusted around any children. It's simply not worth the risk.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
There's a big difference between forcing yourself sexually into someone else who doesn't want to accept it and people with sexual tendencies but don't act on it.
You're advocating punishing people because of what's in their mind, not because of what they do. Can't you see how fucked up that is?
You're actually congratulating someone who killed himself out of fear that he will hurt someone due to something that he can't control. Right in the face of a person that considers him a friend even.
I am sorry, but are you really fucked up in the head?
That is such a fucked up thing to say.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
I don't care what someone has thought or done; applauding suicide in the presence of said victim's friend is supremely fucked up. As someone who's best friend committed suicide, I can tell you it's not a fun thing to go through.
You missed a lot of threads recently.
You missed a lot of threads recently.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Anyone saying that a human being killing themselves was the right choice is fucking piece of shit.
What the fuck guys, seriously?
What the fuck guys, seriously?
Extremely fucked.
People like you are partially responsible for pedophiles continuing to rape children. Your insistence on shutting down the discussion and trying to shame people into not addressing the problem allows it to perpetuate without any attempt being permitted to have it fixed.
What the hell is your problem?
Are you really shifting responsibility from the perpetrator?
What is exactly the "fix" for pedophiles?
dead souls
Member
This is such bullshit. The problem is largely unaddressable because at their core pedophiles want to do something they never can in any legal, ethical, or moral way. There's no solution to that.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
My apologies. I missed the second post. I removed that part of my post.
Frankensteiner
Banned
Try the veal.
Fuck it, I'll be the asshole.
I'm sorry about what happened to your friend. But how does this have anything to do with us discussing why pedophilia is wrong and why some of us don't feel sympathy for pedophiles? And why are we suddenly the assholes? Some dudes said some awful things, true. But does everything have to be an extreme around here?
A lot of us don't feel sympathy for pedophiles and it is a mental disease which could cause great harm. The poor people here are not those who have the urges and don't act on them, it's the children for the potential of harm. While not acting on them is a good thing, it is never going to be something anyone should be celebrated for. None of you here feel sympathy for people who could rape but don't act on it, or those who could commit a hate crime but don't. So why the fuck are you all on the side for victimizing the pedophiles as poor folk? Why them?
Please, give me a real answer that isn't "You're a terrible person", "It's like you're homophobic", or "what the fuck is wrong with you?". Cause we all sure as hell know you wouldn't go out of your to echo the sentiments you do here outside of the internet.
No? No one has once asked for anyone to forgive or ignore people who assault children. We're talking about people who are afflicted with this condition.
We don't know yet, but therapy and some medications seem to help. We have to keep studying it, which is something that happens far too little thanks to attitudes like yours.
I can guarantee that you feeling sick to your stomach won't remove pedophiles from the world or prevent them from existing in the future.
Oh, look everyone, dead souls has concluded there is no solution so I guess all the "scientists" and "doctors" can pack up their shit and stop studying everything. We can just ask dead souls from now on.
Again, posters continue to demonstrate why this is so hard to address and fix.
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