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Project Morpheus GDC Presentation LiveBlog Discussion Thread. [LIVE]

U

USC-fan

Banned
C4EMGEN said:
I did, actually.

It might be because the Morpheus demos were more exciting and technically more impressive, but I very much preferred Morpheus.

I also found Oculus less comfortable to wear, but I'm sure they'll improve upon that later on.
Click to expand...

I seem a lot of comments about being more comfortable to wear.

Thanks again for the impressions!!
 
L

lukeskymac

Member
EvB said:
What we've just walked into is the dawn of interpolated framerates.
You thought upscaled resolution was cause for outrage on the internet....


WELCOME TO THE NEXT GEN.


*DEATH METAL MUSIC PLAYS*
Click to expand...

This is the equivalent of saying that Shadowfall's multiplayer used interpolation.

Hint: It doesn't.
 
J

jaypah

Member
Galacticus said:
Worst part for Microsoft: AR won't come close.
Click to expand...

Maybe they don't need to. As a Rift owner and a dude that's buying Morpheus day one I'm glad that MS is doing something different. If they can fulfill their promises with Hololense I'll be there day one too, shit looks insane. Though this is kinda off topic and no good can come from bringing MS up in this thread.
 
G

Galacticus

Member
jaypah said:
Maybe they don't need to. As a Rift owner and a dude that's buying Morpheus day one I'm glad that MS is doing something different. If they can fulfill their promises with Hololense I'll be there day one too, shit looks insane. Though this is kinda off topic and no good can come from bringing MS up in this thread.
Click to expand...

I agree, I regretted hitting send. For a second.

Back on track: Please Sony include VR Morpheus support in DriveClub.
 
S

stryke

Member
I don't get it. What was said in this presentation that confused people about whether it's 3D or not?

I don't recall this happening last year.
 
U

USC-fan

Banned
stryke said:
I don't get it. What was said in this presentation that confused people about whether it's 3D or not?

I don't recall this happening last year.
Click to expand...

people are confused because it only has one screen. Valve Vr has 2 screens. that is whats difference now.
 
E

EvB

Member
DieH@rd said:
Actually, 60>120fps conversion is done in the external "splitter box". PS4 is not wasting resources on that, so I would not call that "software solution".

Here is the box http://assets.vg247.com/current//2014/05/Project-Morpheus2.jpg
Click to expand...

You got links to back that up, any external box that is looking at the HDMI output is going to be introducing mega latency. That won't work and will ratchet up the price further.

I very much doubt that is what it is for at all.
That box will be there so you don't have to switch HDMI inputs and to send data from the headset to the PS4.
Then that box will also have a proprietary cable that connects to the headset which will carry Video, Data and Power.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
C4EMGEN said:
One of the demos has you sitting on a chair with a Move controller in both hands.
At some point, the scene changes and you will have to stand up and take a step forward to interact with objects on a desk (open up drawers, pick up a key and open a cabinet, pick up a gun with your right hand and load it with a fresh clip using your left hand, pick up a flashlight). You basically press the triggers to pick up and hold on to them, release the trigger to let go. This worked great and felt really intuitive.

Anyway, I ended up triggering an alarm and as I was standing behind a desk, I got up to peak over it so I could see what was going on at the end of the room (security guards entering). All of a sudden, I was being shot at. Naturally, I crouched down behind the desk and everything behaved exactly as you would expect it to. The 3D was great, too, with wood splinters flying around everywhere.
Click to expand...

I NEED to try this.
 
C

CitizenCope

Member
C4EMGEN said:
Tried it yesterday at an infernal conference. It was my first experience with Morpheus, so I can't compare it to the previous version, but - based on the 2 two demos that were available - I will say this:

- I'm absolutely blown away by the experience I had.
- I'm wearing glasses and didn't have any issues at all, which was a great surprise.
- One of the demos was running at 120hz and it was amazing, but the other demo that was running at 30hz didn't really take anything away from the experience.
- There are no noticeable delay.
- I genuinely felt like I was in a different world. There were some very exciting and surprising moments in one of the demos that actually got my heart racing and got me sweating a bit.

Overall, great first impression.
Click to expand...
I almost teared up over this. Not saying this will change everything but I've lost a bit if excitement in my favorite hobby since pong. I really feel like VR is going to bring something new that I can be really excited for. Fingers crossed.
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
Project Morpheus. Rather, I should say that I just faced down a burly British would-be-torturer before being whisked away to a first-person gun fight in a well-appointed London manor. That's "The London Heist," one of the new demos from Sony's London Studio being shown off this week at GDC 2015. It's intense, and demonstrative of the new prototype's upped specs.

I couldn't tell whether or not the aforementioned brute was reacting to where I was looking, but it certainly seemed that way. I stared at him until he asked "What are you looking at?" I looked at the glowing red exit sign of a dingy basement, which made the angry gentleman flick his lit cigarette at me and pull a gun to shoot the exit sign with. He then shot the exit sign and let me know in very certain terms that I wasn't going anywhere.

As he lit a hand-torch and prepared to roast me, an adorably child-like ringtone went off: his mobile phone. After a brief conversation, "Frank" (the apparent name of my potential assailant) instead put the phone in my hand (I physically lifted my right hand, which was holding a PlayStation Move motion controller). I put the Move to my head and heard the voice of another man coming out of it. "Tell us what happened."
Click to expand...
Engadget
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
TheGuardian said:
A screenshot of that demo:

IMG_0093%20(1).JPG
Click to expand...



Hey my eyes aren't too good. Is that minecraft?
 
D

DavidDesu

Member
Oh man, so excited for this. Glad it has a solid release window now even if I'm a little disappointed it's not by the end of this year. Still, low persistence OLED screen is great news and the 120Hz potential output shows that Sony is serious about VR and doing it right.

I see many naysayers and those perhaps new to VR debates chiming in with the usual "oh you won't run COD on that so what's the point, everything will look like a PS2 game!" For starters presence completely and utterly trumps graphics. This is the current trade off for ALL VR solutions. Nobody will be running a COD like game in VR on anything but the most expensive of gaming rigs out there which accounts for what, 1 or 2% of PC's out there. Most people using their PC with Oculus or another PC VR solution will have to contend with lower expectations of the graphics they will get while using VR. The upshot is that, in VR you are IN the game world. Literally in there. I still think people are just not grasping this concept fully yet, if at all, going by some of the comments.

Sony's solution sounds at least as good as Oculus' DK2 which is a decent place to be, and the headset itself, for both aesthetics as well as practicality absolutely shits all over ALL of the other VR solutions, which I'm surprised all still resemble headsets with a ski-mask fit that looks incredibly uncomfortable, not very glasses-friendly, and likely to make your display steam up! I'm surprised Sony have done such a wonderful job of the physical design, the first prototype got much praise for being far superior comfort wise, and that is a big factor for the mass market.

All in all I'm really happy with Sony and it's clear VR is very important for them. I hope and expect it to be affordable, maybe £150-£200 max in the UK, similar figures but in dollars for the US. Considering the experience you will get I would find that irresistible and so would many others.

Quick question for the tech heads out there, if it's possible to break down how the 60>120fps would work... I'm assuming that the external box between the PS4 and the headset will basically take the last frame and account for how you've moved your head sine that last frame and adjust it accordingly until the next frame gets drawn. So even though the game world itself will only update at 60fps for the frames inbetween they will be adjusted by the head tracking so objects look as if they are where they should be on that inbetween frame. So in terms of you seeing the world around you it will be in 120fps (massively helping immersion), but the actual world animations will operate at 60fps. Does that make sense, is that on the right track, or is it more complicated than that?
 
M

MikeHaggar

Member
lukeskymac said:
It's one big screen panel, yes
I think
. The content displayed is still stereoscopic. 2x960x1080.
Click to expand...

huh, that's interesting. i haven't been able to read the whole thread, but saw the op summary and notice it was one 1920x1080 panel. from the comments on the last page it seems that it does in fact still do 3d, which is cool.

i wonder if a single eye can tell notice a difference between looking at a 960x1080 panel as compared to both eyes looking at a 1920x1080 panel. maybe someone in here can answer?

also, you better be able to play all ps4 games on this even if the headset just acts as a screen. i totally want to get lost in certain games. did they announce if it would support that?

i'm actually kind of excited for this. could be really cool in quite a few ways.
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
Yeah...I really wanna try this myself. All this VR stuff has me so damn giddy with excitement. :)
 
A

AmyS

Member
So, the first half of 2016. Lets say Q2 2016, or even fall 2016. PS4 should be roughly half way through it's lifecycle, assuming 6 years instead of PS3's 7 years.

PS5 can launch with Morpheus support and obviously allow for much more detailed worlds.
By then Oculus will have CV2 out with 4K and Sony will have 2nd gen, 4K Morpheus as well.
 
D

Dead Prince

Banned
AmyS said:
So, the first half of 2016. Lets say Q2 2016, or even fall 2016. PS4 should be roughly half way through it's lifecycle, assuming 6 years instead of PS3's 7 years.

PS5 can launch with Morpheus support and obviously allow for much more detailed worlds.
By then Oculus will have CV2 out with 4K and Sony will have 2nd gen, 4K Morpheus as well.
Click to expand...

maybe they'll drop price of ps4 just so when they launch $199 morpheus it won't be a sting. i'm just pulling numbers out. kinda wonder how well this will do.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
DieH@rd said:
Actually, 60>120fps conversion is done in the external "splitter box". PS4 is not wasting resources on that, so I would not call that "software solution".

Here is the box http://assets.vg247.com/current//2014/05/Project-Morpheus2.jpg
Click to expand...

genius. makes you wonder why we ever bothered going 60FPS in the first place. just play at 30 and run it through a magic latency free framerate doubling box.

hope they get one out in time for bloodborne.
 
B

Branduil

Member
ghst said:
genius. makes you wonder why we ever bothered going 60FPS in the first place. just play at 30 and run it through a magic latency free framerate doubling box.

hope they get one out in time for bloodborne.
Click to expand...

Because frame interpolation introduces all kinds of undesirable artifacts.
 
Freeman

Freeman

Banned
This sounds just like the sort of thing that would do really well in Japan, since they are not that much into PC Sony has a great opportunity there.
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
Natureboy99 said:
They better, because that's how you sell morpheus to non gamers. Make them feel like they are really there in the movie or sporting event.
Click to expand...

To sell it to non gamer, and if they are to keep the name Morpheus (I hope they do), they gotta do this:

1) Clear the potential copyright problems with Warner

2) Contract Laurence Fishburne

3) make a commercial/ infomercial that spoofs the Neo training scene in The Matrix.

"What is real? How do you define 'real' ? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.

Have you ever had a dream, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?

What is VR you ask? Freedom. Virtual Reality is a computer-generated dream world built to keep us entertained in order to change the very way we consume our games or movies.

Unfortunately, no one can be told what Virtual Reality is. You have to see it for yourself.

This is your chance... After this, there is no turning back. You take the reality pill - the story ends, you stay where you are and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the VR pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you just how deep the rabbit-hole goes.


My Name Is Morpheus."

Just an idea :)
 
U

Uhyve

Member
ghst said:
genius. makes you wonder why we ever bothered going 60FPS in the first place. just play at 30 and run it through a magic latency free framerate doubling box.

hope they get one out in time for bloodborne.
Click to expand...
Urgh, I know you're probably joking at this point, but just in case nobody has explained how timewarp works (or "reprojection" as Sony is calling it), it's not the same as frame interpolation on your TV.

On your TV, you have two frames and you figure out an approximated middle frame, kind of doubling your framerate and incurring a heavy latency hit.

On the Oculus/Morpheus, you have your finished frame and you have your depth buffer (which has values indicating how far away a pixel is), with both of those, you can calculate at what position a pixel is at in 3D space. You can then treat the pixels as you do any other object in 3D programming, and rerender the scene with new camera data.

This can be used for two things, lowering latency and increasing the effective framerate. Essentially, after you've rendered your scene, you wait until just before the render gets presented to your screen, then you grab the newest rotation data from the HMD and you re-render the scene with those adjustments (which lowers the latency between head movement and screen update). You can then do the same thing again 8.3 milliseconds later using the same rendered image, which kind of gives you a refresh rate of 120fps.

The drawbacks are:
- Positional movements of the camera are ignored (the parallaxing would cause artifacts).
- The only thing changing in your "free" frame is the camera orientation.
- If you make a huge head movement, it's possible for you to get a glimpse of outside the rendered field of view.

Luckily, due to how short a period 60fps is, the drawbacks generally won't be that noticeable.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Uhyve said:
Urgh, I know you're probably joking at this point, but just in case nobody has explained how timewarp works (or "reprojection" as Sony is calling it), it's not the same as frame interpolation on your TV.

On your TV, you have two frames and you figure out an approximated middle frame, kind of doubling your framerate and incurring a heavy latency hit.

On the Oculus/Morpheus, you have your finished frame and you have your depth buffer (which has values indicating how far away a pixel is), with both of those, you can calculate at what position a pixel is at in 3D space. You can then treat the pixels as you do any other object in 3D programming, and rerender the scene with new camera data.

This can be used for two things, lowering latency and increasing the effective framerate. Essentially, after you've rendered your scene, you wait until just before the render gets presented to your screen, then you grab the newest rotation data from the HMD and you re-render the scene with those adjustments (which lowers the latency between head movement and screen update). You can then do the same thing again 8.3 milliseconds later using the same rendered image, which kind of gives you a refresh rate of 120fps.

The drawbacks are:
- Positional movements of the camera are ignored (the parallaxing would cause artifacts).
- The only thing changing in your "free" frame is the camera orientation.
- If you make a huge head movement, it's possible for you to get a glimpse of outside the rendered field of view.

Luckily, due to how short a period 60fps is, the drawbacks generally won't be that noticeable.
Click to expand...

Is this possible to do with standard displays? Sounds interesting.
 
jmaine_ph

jmaine_ph

Member
This sounds awesome! Loving the new prototype. I'm actually happy it's not coming out the end of this year. To many games to buy to be dishing out cash on Morpheus. Those screenshots and impression sounds great. Hope to see more at E3!
 
U

Uhyve

Member
RoboPlato said:
Is this possible to do with standard displays? Sounds interesting.
Click to expand...
Not really, it requires a depth buffer which mainly limits it's use to realtime 3D content, also if you were to use it for anything but rotating your viewpoint, you'd get some rather nasty (interpolation style) artifacting.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Uhyve said:
Not really, it requires a depth buffer which mainly limits it's use to realtime 3D content, also if you were to use it for anything but rotating your viewpoint, you'd get some rather nasty (interpolation style) artifacting.
Click to expand...

I figured as much.
 
C

Callibretto

Member
ArkhamFantasy said:
Is it designed to co-exist with headphones?
Click to expand...
Last year they mentioned that 3d audio is one of the key element in achieving the sense of presence.

I'm pretty excited for it. I've heard some of those dolby headphone demo with barber or matchstick demo. It was mindblowing, having that to go with vr is very exciting
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Callibretto said:
Last year they mentioned that 3d audio is one of the key element in achieving the sense of presence.

I'm pretty excited for it. I've heard some of those dolby headphone demo with barber or matchstick demo. It was mindblowing, having that to go with vr is very exciting
Click to expand...

I would LOVE it if there was some way to implement something similar for most games and let me use my HD598s.
 
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