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Polyphony Digital (Gran Turismo) hires Mike Caviezel (Forza audio lead)

Kalamari

Kalamari

Member
This guy should be a great addition. I'm looking forward to the next GT coming in 5 years.
I hope not
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
If Polyphony is picking up audio people I guess they're really serious about the company name.
 
L

Leithkorias

Member
earvcunanan said:
That's quite interesting, I've seen the series hailed as "The Real Driving Simulator", so I thought sound wouldn't be a weak point for the series and stay true to the authentic sounds of the vehicles.
Click to expand...


I used to love gran turismo. Until I played with a car I owned in real life.

If you can't even get the cars redline correct, which you can see by looking at the tachometer, how can you call your game the real driving simulator??

Owning an -in game car- in "real life" was a real eye opener.

I know my car in and out. Gran turismo did so horrible a job of replicating it that I'd be hard pressed to believe they even tried.

Incorrect redline, incorrect gear ratios, incorrect top speed, incorrect sound effects and even incorrect factory hp/tq ratings. I mean, what else is there?

Even with custom gears and every mod for my car in the game installed, it was impossible to get the factory gear ratios correct.

Dafuq??
 
T

TheAdmiester

Member
saladine1 said:
Even the venerable PGR4
Cockpit and exterior sounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIyAgW8ekSQ

Fuck, Nick Wiswell was the man at BC. Listen to the shifting and trans-whine. Man, I certainly hope he implements the transmission effects for FM6 because they've basically been missing since forever..
Click to expand...

Wow, I forgot about that.

It reminds me of how much I love the whiny flutter sound that the Toyota GT1 makes in that game when it shifts, though.
 
T

Three

Member
GoonerTRON said:
You can hardlly hear the engine in Driveclub.
Click to expand...

The sounds in driveclub are the best in any racing game I've come across. The audio is directional and real. You can hear exhaust sounds more when at the back of the car, louder engine sounds when at the front. Muffled sound when inside. Reverb/echo when in a tunnel. it was all very impressive. I think there was a GDC talk on it if anybody has a link or video the the presentation.

Some examples of Driveclubs exceptional sound
https://youtu.be/_CW21zC9YWE

https://youtu.be/c-thQNd0HHw
 
S

ShamePain

Banned
This is pretty huge. But to be fair FM1-3 were good, but only under Nick Wiswell they became great which can be seen going from FM4 forward. Still, anything's better than what PD has been doing so far.
 
T

TheAdmiester

Member
Three said:
The sounds in driveclub are the best in any racing game I've come across. The audio is directional and real. You can hear exhaust sounds more when at the back of the car, louder engine sounds when at the front. Muffled sound when inside. Reverb/echo when in a tunnel. it was all very impressive. I think there was a GDC talk on it if anybody has a link or video the the presentation.

Some examples of Driveclubs exceptional sound
https://youtu.be/_CW21zC9YWE

https://youtu.be/c-thQNd0HHw
Click to expand...

The sound engine is good, but the sounds themselves aren't in most cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gz64whXYCc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be4sUpQjQQo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvA9-5VptnE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGfn0HrqiSE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuoV7Enl60Y

None of these cars sound anything like they should. The V12s sound completely off, and in the McLaren F1's case, it's actually using the V8 sound from the 12C/650S. The sound engine is great but the recordings are nowhere near as good as anyone claims.
 
W

Wax Free Vanilla

Member
benzy said:
Polyphony are completely doing away with audio recordings in favor of synthesizing audio in real-time; looks like Mike will be overseeing this development. They've already begun testing an early version of their new audio system on the DLC cars in GT6:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08C1_txCLOg

Also check out cutmeamango and Wax's posts on the previous page.
Click to expand...

Can't be 100% sure until Polyphony says what they're actually doing with audio on PS4, the AES system present in GT6 looks like it can also use recorded samples, in the AES Misc section:

esgx_enable
esgx_pitch_scale
esgx_volume
Click to expand...


esgx is the file format for all recorded samples.

Polyphony have added a few more settings to AES:

exnoise_level (exhaust)
misfire_cycles
misfire_rate
misfire_thr_sens
Click to expand...

Can't wait to hear the noncrippled audio of GT World on PS4
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
TheAdmiester said:
The sound engine is good, but the sounds themselves aren't in most cases.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGfn0HrqiSE

None of these cars sound anything like they should. The V12s sound completely off, and in the McLaren F1's case, it's actually using the V8 sound from the 12C/650S. The sound engine is great but the recordings are nowhere near as good as anyone claims.
Click to expand...
Judging by some of your post in this thread, i would assume you are of the opinion that Forza sounds better.

Here is the Ferrari Enzo in Driveclub Vs Forza 5 Vs FH2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ETo4sJkK8

And here are real life Enzos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuq8pReSgA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5NhWQLFyE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dPcZHYsCa0

While you can never get an accurate representation in a game because you are simulating sound in a virtual environment. You will be hard pressed to conclude Driveclub does not come close enough to the real thing especially compared to both Forza games. The sound design in Driveclub is one of the best in any racing game. The sound changes based on the location of the camera and the environment just like real life. The sounds are very accurate in Driveclub but a few cars have the bass low for some reason. Heck the Enzo in both Forzas sound thinner than Driveclub.
 
T

TheAdmiester

Member
danhese007 said:
Judging by some of your post in this thread, i would assume you are of the opinion that Forza sounds better.

Here is the Ferrari Enzo in Driveclub Vs Forza 5 Vs FH2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ETo4sJkK8

And here are real life Enzos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuq8pReSgA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5NhWQLFyE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dPcZHYsCa0

While you can never get an accurate representation in a game because you are simulating sound in a virtual environment. You will be hard pressed to conclude Driveclub does not come close enough to the real thing especially compared to both Forza games. The sound design in Driveclub is one of the best in any racing game. The sound changes based on the location of the camera and the environment just like real life. The sounds are very accurate in Driveclub but a few cars have the bass low for some reason. Heck the Enzo in both Forzas sound thinner than Driveclub.
Click to expand...

The Enzo was one of the cars I thought was least accurate in Driveclub and this make it even more obvious. The Forza videos sound way closer to the real ones you linked than Driveclub did, although Forza 5 sounds a lot better than Horizon 2 for some reason. It's way too low pitched and has an odd hum to it in Driveclub like every other V12 in the game. The only thing Driveclub has in those videos that Forza lacks is transmission whine for that car, but I don't know if the real thing has it as obviously.

It just reaffirms my position that anything with a 5 or 6 cylinder derivative (so I6, V6, V10, V12) just sounds bad in Driveclub. The I4s and V8s sound very accurate, but the 5 and 6 cylinder blocks are bad. And like I showed with the McLaren video, some cars use just outright wrong samples. The F1 has a VERY distinctive BMW V12, and almost every game nails that sound, DC is one of the very few that doesn't and uses a V8 sound.
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
TheAdmiester said:
The Enzo was one of the cars I thought was least accurate in Driveclub and this make it even more obvious. The Forza videos sound way closer to the real ones you linked than Driveclub did, although Forza 5 sounds a lot better than Horizon 2 for some reason. It's way too low pitched and has an odd hum to it in Driveclub like every other V12 in the game. The only thing Driveclub has in those videos that Forza lacks is transmission whine for that car, but I don't know if the real thing has it as obviously.

It just reaffirms my position that anything with a 5 or 6 cylinder derivative (so I6, V6, V10, V12) just sounds bad in Driveclub. The I4s and V8s sound very accurate, but the 5 and 6 cylinder blocks are bad. And like I showed with the McLaren video, some cars use just outright wrong samples. The F1 has a VERY distinctive BMW V12, and almost every game nails that sound, DC is one of the very few that doesn't and uses a V8 sound.
Click to expand...
Nope, you are sadly mistaken. Both Forza's sound thinner, want more examples?

Lamborghini Huracan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXvYXdS6RhI

Real life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SR4WlncmC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHZsAitJQpY
 
T

TheAdmiester

Member
danhese007 said:
Nope, you are sadly mistaken. Both Forza's sound thinner, want more examples?

Lamborghini Huracan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXvYXdS6RhI

Real life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SR4WlncmC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHZsAitJQpY
Click to expand...

Both sound just as inaccurate in that one. Forza's clearly sounds reused from the R8/Gallardo's sound whereas the Huracan is angrier, but neither sound right.

Let me pose this comparison to you, because it's the clearest example of what I mean and it can't possibly be misinterpreted.

Forza:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izcPaRpx8lU

Driveclub:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsHoQTXCtyc

Real life: (As the car passes the camera the sound is very distorted, but as it gets further away after 0:36, especially with the downshift, you can hear it clearly)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1KmxJ6Daic

Forza's sound is spot on in this comparison to me. Whether you think it's inaccurate or not is up to you, but it sounds like the same V12 from the car, whereas Driveclub is, as I said, using the V8 sound from the McLaren 650S, which while accurate in its own regard, is completely incorrect for the F1. It sounds absolutely nothing like any footage of the F1 ever seen.

EDIT: Even NFS Rivals gets this one right. It's not as close as Forza, but it at least uses V12 samples and has the same sort of "grinding" (for lack of a better word) noise at higher RPM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa6nBokvJ5s
Near the end of this comparison.
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
TheAdmiester said:
Both sound just as inaccurate in that one. Forza's clearly sounds reused from the R8/Gallardo's sound whereas the Huracan is angrier, but neither sound right.
Click to expand...
One sounds closer to the real thing than the other just like the Enzo. You will never be able to get the real thing in a game but close enough is better than inaccurate especially when one studio admits to splicing in animal and other sounds in their car engine.

Edit: Upon listening to the Mclaren F1 LM in Driveclub compared to some of the real life ones, it is not very accurate especially at higher RPM.
 
D

dalin80

Banned
CosmicGroinPull said:
Wow bravo! They're listening.
Click to expand...

I don't think 'listening' is the correct term, fans have done everything shy of breaking into PD's headquarters and burning the message into the office walls for the past decade to even get this far. The Community rep is AWOL, the fan Q+A feature has been abandoned after it ignored all the questions and just rambled on about taking pictures at the nurburgring and the whole team seems to have been stagnant this past gen.
 
FranXico

FranXico

Member
danhese007 said:
One sounds closer to the real thing than the other just like the Enzo. You will never be able to get the real thing in a game but close enough is better than inaccurate especially when one studio admits to splicing in animal and other sounds in their car engine.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link for this? That sounds like such a bad approach.
 
S

SwordStruck

Member
Wow this is huge. The sounds are absolutely amazing in the Forza games. GT is really lacking in that department to say the least.
 
S

Summer Haze

Banned
Wow, so it's finally happening? GT will finally have cars that don't sound like vacuums? This is incredible.

GoonerTRON said:
You can hardlly hear the engine in Driveclub.
Click to expand...

They patched in cockpit volume options a while ago now, you can set it very loud, especially if you turn other audio options down. You can now also choose to have external engine audio in cockpit view. So...

:)
 
B

Bunta

Fujiwara Tofu Shop
tdkizj.gif
 
T

TheAdmiester

Member
danhese007 said:
Edit: Upon listening to the Mclaren F1 LM in Driveclub compared to some of the real life ones, it is not very accurate especially at higher RPM.
Click to expand...

I'd say that's a bit of an understatement considering it's literally using another engine's sounds. The least they could've done was use a Ferrari V12 or something, at least that's the same configuration.
 
A

Adachi

Banned
I said months ago (admittetly not on here) that Sony should let folks from Evolution studios help with GT instead of letting them go, going by this thread it seems as if people have now arrived at that same conclusion. :p

I mean we don't know exactly who was let go but I'm sure there were a couple among those that could have worked on improving standard cars in GT or the sound or worked on the weather system or on modelling tracks etc.
 
L

lightchris

Member
N

nib95

Banned
TheAdmiester said:
Both sound just as inaccurate in that one. Forza's clearly sounds reused from the R8/Gallardo's sound whereas the Huracan is angrier, but neither sound right.

Let me pose this comparison to you, because it's the clearest example of what I mean and it can't possibly be misinterpreted.

Forza:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izcPaRpx8lU

Driveclub:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsHoQTXCtyc

Real life: (As the car passes the camera the sound is very distorted, but as it gets further away after 0:36, especially with the downshift, you can hear it clearly)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1KmxJ6Daic

Forza's sound is spot on in this comparison to me. Whether you think it's inaccurate or not is up to you, but it sounds like the same V12 from the car, whereas Driveclub is, as I said, using the V8 sound from the McLaren 650S, which while accurate in its own regard, is completely incorrect for the F1. It sounds absolutely nothing like any footage of the F1 ever seen.

EDIT: Even NFS Rivals gets this one right. It's not as close as Forza, but it at least uses V12 samples and has the same sort of "grinding" (for lack of a better word) noise at higher RPM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa6nBokvJ5s
Near the end of this comparison.
Click to expand...

The GTR F1 is not the same as the regular F1 or the LM, the former is the race car version, and sounds different. Personally I think both games have got the sound of the F1 wrong, and it's possible that neither had direct recordings of it. I actually have a suspicion that a few of the DLC Driveclub cars, were not actually in-house recorded, unlike most of the core game one's.

Also, I'd say you are wrong about DC's F1 sounding like the 650S. They do not sound alike. Though I do agree the F1 sounds are off, the 650S however is pretty much spot on.

Driveclub McLaren F1
Driveclub McLaren 650S
McLaren 650S real thing (very close to Driveclub's rendition)

I don't think Driveclub can't do V12 sounds either. See the V12 Vantage S as a prime example. It sounds absolutely spot on to the real thing.

Aston Martin V12 Vantage S real thing
Driveclub Aston Martin V12 Vantage S Test run

The vehicles which do sound closer to the real thing, and where presumably both teams used actual recordings, usually have Driveclub sounding more accurate.

Audi R8 V10 real thing
DriveClub vs Forza Motorsport 5 - Audi R8 V10 Plus Comparison

Switch between the real thing and both games, and only Driveclub nearly perfectly replicates it.

However, there are cases, where EVO may not have done their own recordings, where Forza 5 sounds more accurate (though still not fully accurate), for example with the Ferrari Enzo.

Ferrari Enzo real thing
DriveClub vs FH2 vs FM5 - Ferrari Enzo Sound Comparison


Ultimately, this Polyphony pick up is still a great thing, but I'm not sure why they couldn't have just had some internal studio partnership or collaboration with Evolution for the audio work. Then again, having your own staff is always better than having to constantly borrow someone else's.
 
T

Three

Member
TheAdmiester said:
The Enzo was one of the cars I thought was least accurate in Driveclub and this make it even more obvious. The Forza videos sound way closer to the real ones you linked than Driveclub did,
Click to expand...
Wait, what? I was with you when you said the enzo F50 didn't sound accurate because it doesn't but are you saying the high pitch grass clipper type sound in Forza sounds more like the real thing? I disagree. Forza 5s F50 sounds are bad. with little to no transmission whine, bad or almost non-existent exhaust sound a high pitch air cutting sound for an engine with way to wide a range. The pitch range is so inaccurate that you can play music by pressing play and jumping around in a Forza video.
 
C

Colombo

Member
Great news. GT7 needs to be special and better audio is one way to bring it up to speed. Now just make sure it's a 2016 release!
 
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