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[Trago]

Interesting to read. This looks like an innovative feature. Imagine using the cloud for things like ai or something.

 

[SwolBro]

don't know why but this got me.. lol

 

[LookAtMeGo]

There's a video in the OP.

But how do we really know he's not just using a PS4?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

There's a video in the OP.

Is it wrong to want to see the delivered final product in action? That's all I'm saying. People want to use this video as the end all be all "discussion is over!" trophy. But in reality, we're still waiting to experience this cloud power for ourselves.

The naysayers and the believers are both eager to make final conclusions, but in reality, both sides have to wait a long time to see what's really going on.

 

[Popsickles]

Do you have proof of this? That there are untouched GPU cores that can be utilized for Physics calculations and not cause any issues with graphics?

quote from Naughty Dog Lead Programmer Jason Gregory from a dual shockers article
the GPU is “more powerful than it’s necessary to render graphics at 1080p at 60 hz” and that the idea of the designers of the PS4 was to give the console extra GPU resources because it’s “incredibly good at doing massive amounts of parallel processing” and they envisioned that game designers are going to take advance of that processing to do physics, cloth simulation, fluids and more on the GPU.

With the PS3 Naughty Dog developed in conjunction with Sony’s ICE team a “Job system” to make efficient use of the multi-core CPU, and a similar one has been created for the PS4.


Only six cores are available for games, as two are used by the operating system. The Job system also uses the GPU on top of these six cores, as it’s enabled to run code. Each CPU core runs a worker thread, and while the first takes care of the main game loop, other jobs are allocated between the remaining five cores.

 

[Neff]

So did you watch the below video or are you just coming into troll because you can?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFWIpAPvF-Q&feature=youtu.be

I saw it and I'm not convinced that any actions in the demo are based on computations an isolated Xbox One can't make, let alone based on computations being bounced from the console to an outside source, and back again during real-time action gameplay. I'm not doubting the tech's viability to demonstrate additional power within a demo, but I very much doubt the practicality of it during gameplay. Sure, the guy in the video asserts that the tech isn't representative of his game, but the hyperbolic claims being made as to its usefulness in gaming, and the ammunition it's already offering in e-playground console warring isn't something we should devote too much attention to imo.

If you think I'm trolling just because I'm cynical, then I suggest you distance your passions from this subject.

 

[Dynasty]

http://www.*****************/2014/0...l-and-how-they-can-make-them-run-really-fast/

link ain't working for me

 

[RiccochetJ]

http://www.*****************/2014/0...l-and-how-they-can-make-them-run-really-fast/

You're using a banned site for your proof.

 

[thekiddfran]

Let it begin!!!!

 

[Nafai1123]

Do you have proof of this? That there are untouched GPU cores that can be utilized for Physics calculations and not cause any issues with graphics?

It's not about untouched GPU cores, it's about utilizing spare cycles.

The Asynchronous Compute Engines queue and control the GPU’s task scheduling, effectively ensuring that compute data is being synced up to the current version in memory. Another important task they perform is the scheduling of when a task is performed so that it doesn’t interfere or drain away processing power from graphical tasks

You can read more about it here.

 

[Bsigg12]

Is it wrong to want to see the delivered final product in action? That's all I'm saying. People want to use this video as the end all be all "discussion is over!" trophy. But in reality, we're still waiting to experience this cloud power for ourselves.

But how do we really know he's not just using a PS4?

I was just messing around. I know he's talking about the final product. There's a beta next summer so anyone with an Xbox One will have a chance to check it out.

http://www.*****************/2014/0...l-and-how-they-can-make-them-run-really-fast/

Banned site eh?

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I was just messing around. I know he's talking about the final product. There's a beta next summer so anyone with an Xbox One will have a chance to check it out.

Was it confirmed to be a beta? MS mentioned using Early Access for their own games. This would be a perfect candidate for the multiplayer only portion.

 

[Arnie7]

So looking at the demo is this "jet fuel can't melt steal beams: The Video game"?

 

[Bsigg12]

Was it confirmed to be a beta? MS mentioned using Early Access for their own games. This would be a perfect candidate for the multiplayer only portion.

Yea. It's at the end of the Crackdown 3 First Look video.

https://youtu.be/d_nZ1xYyj6A

 

[hawk2025]

Was it confirmed to be a beta? MS mentioned using Early Access for their own games. This would be a perfect candidate for the multiplayer only portion.

Huh, good point.

Crackdown 3 is a perfect candidate for Early Access, I think.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Yea. It's at the end of the Crackdown 3 First Look video.

Oh ok, good to know.

EDIT: Just watched the video and missed this portion. At the end it only says that multiplayer begins in 2016. It doesn't specify a beta.

 

[jet1911]

The fact that this is limited to MP really really annoys me.

I mean, why not allow people to use it in single player? I would GLADLY connect online in single player to have this, yet they are just like "nah, we can't let people do that!"

Will I then be unable to destroy the buildings?

Limited destruction. In SP you're supposed to kill the mob, save the city and collect those sweet, sweet orbs. Levelling entire city blocks kinda goes against that.

 

[mintylurb]

Good lord at the denial. I think this is gonna be my 'next gen is here' moment.

No. Crackdown can be played offline with limited destructibility.

Exactly. Crack3 offline can be enjoyed on the most balanced console ever released.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

What some people aren't getting is the fact that there isn't just all this destructibility, but also that the aftermath will, to a large degree, be completely persistent.

They have the memory and resources to keep all that stuff there. It may be moved or cleared away for story or game purposes, but they have the resources for this stuff, and I find that thought pretty exciting.

 

[loaf of bread]

Is it wrong to want to see the delivered final product in action? That's all I'm saying. People want to use this video as the end all be all "discussion is over!" trophy. But in reality, we're still waiting to experience this cloud power for ourselves.

The naysayers and the believers are both eager to make final conclusions, but in reality, both sides have to wait a long time to see what's really going on.

.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

What some people aren't getting is the fact that there isn't just all this destructibility, but also that the aftermath will, to a large degree, be completely persistent.

They have the memory and resources to keep all that stuff there. It may be moved or cleared away for story or game purposes, but they have the resources for this stuff, and I find that thought pretty exciting.

Have they stated anything about persistent damage?

 

[Dr.Acula]

There's a video in the OP.

Conference videos never lie.

I'm just gonna temper my hype for now. Are there any "power of the cloud" games out right now that boost performance through cloud computing? Consumer console games? I get that there's "proof of concept" stuff, but I don't know of any cloud based games in the wild that definitively run better in cloud mode.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Have they stated anything about persistent damage?

They were talking about the damage and destruction being persistent in the 10 min alpha demonstration.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Have they stated anything about persistent damage?

I feel like people are mixing up 'the destructed building doesn't just vanish' and 'damage is permanent'. I imagine each game of MP resets the map, but it should stick around for as long as its' potientally relevant to game play.

We really don't have the full details yet.

 

[Birgitte2004]

You know what's hilarious. The tech is literally been proven and shown in live demos, and there still people labelling this as PR fluff.

Brilliant.

Either way, I'm really excited by what this brings to gaming as a whole.

Bullshots come from demos.

The tech is not "proven" by a demo. Only a real product can prove it.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Have they stated anything about persistent damage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFWIpAPvF-Q&feature=youtu.be&t=3m26s

 

[Hockeymac18]

Have they stated anything about persistent damage?

Dave Jones confirms in the 10 minute demo that the damaged/broken pieces persist through the session (so you can jump up on it or break the pieces down further).

Also said here (timestamped video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFWIpAPvF-Q&feature=youtu.be&t=8m00s

 

[Overside]

Have they stated anything about persistent damage?

I dont know, but they really dont have to.

The damage data is stored server side, across multiple servers per section of the city even, which has no shortage of memory.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I feel like people are mixing up 'the destructed building doesn't just vanish' and 'damage is permanent'. I imagine each game of MP resets the map, but it should stick around for as long as its' potientally relevant to game play.

We really don't have the full details yet.

And that's all that matters.

 

[Bsigg12]

Oh ok, good to know.

EDIT: Just watched the video and missed this portion. At the end it only says that multiplayer begins in 2016. It doesn't specify a beta.

Oh shit, you're right. I think I just glanced and saw the BE of begins and my brain registered it as BETA. Hmm, I wonder if it will be the first first party Xbox Game Preview game?

 

[Kayant]

He is definitely working on the game though. He was right with about 95% of what he said about how they were thinking about it. Likely not at Reagent but Sumo. I think he got banned because they wanted to control the flow of information.

quote from Naughty Dog Lead Programmer Jason Gregory from a dual shockers article
the GPU is “more powerful than it’s necessary to render graphics at 1080p at 60 hz” and that the idea of the designers of the PS4 was to give the console extra GPU resources because it’s “incredibly good at doing massive amounts of parallel processing” and they envisioned that game designers are going to take advance of that processing to do physics, cloth simulation, fluids and more on the GPU.

With the PS3 Naughty Dog developed in conjunction with Sony’s ICE team a “Job system” to make efficient use of the multi-core CPU, and a similar one has been created for the PS4.


Only six cores are available for games, as two are used by the operating system. The Job system also uses the GPU on top of these six cores, as it’s enabled to run code. Each CPU core runs a worker thread, and while the first takes care of the main game loop, other jobs are allocated between the remaining five cores.

You're misunderstanding how GPGPU works am not an expert or anything but it's not using "untouched" cores and "General purpose something" from your previous post is referencing to how GPU cores can be used for general purpose tasks. GPGPU on PS4 is to do with making better use of the GPU pipeline.

On a 33.333 ms frame, we saved roughly 6ms by using the async compute pipes. Thats where the 18% comes from. Those savings went up to 10ms on our stress test level. Really if you’re working on a AMD GCN GPU, I can’t recommend looking into async compute enough!

See some of okonomiyonda's and HiVision post on it(The tomorrow children devs) -

some more clarifications (just on terminology)

To oversimplify a bit, the compute units (CUs) are the things that run your shader. So whether you are doing graphics shaders or compute, they are all executing on the compute units. The async compute pipes are there to give you a way to supply more work to the GPU. Imagine your graphics work looks like this

1. write to a texture
2. wait for it to finish
3. use texture as input for the next shader

In a naive implementation, that second shader can't run until the first finishes. That means towards the end there will be alot of the GPU hardware sitting around idle until the previous shader finishes. The compute pipes give you a way of supplying more work to the GPU that can fill in the gaps left by graphics.

Sorry if thats all a bit basic and oversimplified, but I'm not sure what level of detail is best to post

Regarding CPU sync, we have almost none. We use the CPU to kick GPU work and the CPU never stalls waiting for the GPU during our "frame". We do have some weirdness where an end of pipe interrupt wakes up our vsync thread which sleeps waiting for vsync and then writes a label allowing the GPU to continue, but thats just because work after the label may write to the current display buffer and we want to flip away from it before continuing. We basically tried to make everything as async as possible to avoid render and main thread involvement of any kind and minimize stalls.

Finally, while you can build command buffers and kick them from the GPU if you're clever about it, that is a topic for another day

 

[TheDarkTriforce]

Everything is changing. Microsoft is a new company with Spencer driving the ship.

This! Microsoft is doing so much for their gamers while Sony is doing nothing besides moneyhatting games, announce games that are 3-4 years away and act like they won E3 2015, don't add bacward compatibility, don't allow EA Access and abandon the PlayStation Vita!

 

[Three]

Well this game is slated for 2016, likely holidays which would put it only just into the 4th year of the xb1 or at the very end of year 3. Counting years from nov->Nov of course. So it likely would be in the second half of the generation.

I will be very happy and surprised if this makes 2016.

 

[kingkaiser]

Always Online as a concept in relation to single player experiences is beyond toxic - it's radioactive.

You'll never see it applied as a console-wide "feature" again, seeing as how this generation has played out. Consumers will be on the watch for any hint of that creeping back in, and rightfully so.

Man, I remember how much I cried as a child when the last mail coach drove through our village.

Sadly, times change.

 

[Trup1aya]

If MS isn't eating the full cost then don't expect a single third party to get on board. There would be absolutely no benefit for third parties if MS charged them for it's use, and only benefits for MS. It's part of the reason I was saying before that you'll only see this utilized in MS' big hitters and not much more outside of that.

Huh? Third parties pay for server rentals anyway... This would allow them to use servers on demand instead of trying to estimate load... It could potentially save them money to use Azure for their multiplayer suite...

TitanFall developers has stated that azure is the cheapest way to supply dedicated servers for MP games...

 

[Overside]

Everything is changing. Microsoft is a new company with Spencer driving the ship.

I gotta hand it to him... Im looking at getting an xbone now, I was really planning on this being the first gen where i didnt currently own every platform, and... Hes making me rethink that.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I will be very happy and surprised if this makes 2016.

Multiplayer is scheduled for Summer 2016. Final release including the single player component hasn't been specified yet.

 

[quickwhips]

Can anyone link where it says that Story/coop in this won't support full destruction or stop stating things like facts? I don't think we know one way or another yet?

 

[Three]

Huh? Third parties pay for server rentals anyway... This would allow them to use servers on demand instead of trying to estimate load... It could potentially save them money to use Azure for their multiplayer suite...

TitanFall developers has stated that azure is the cheapest way to supply dedicated servers for MP games...

This will only save them money if they were doing the same thing on reserved servers. What you're missing is that the alternative is not doing this on Amazon on Azure at all.

 

[perfectchaos007]

That's what's going to be annoying. Cloud is going to be used as an argument against PS4's power advantage now. lol.

All is fair in love and console graphic wars

 

[Dynasty]

Can anyone link where it says that Story/coop in this won't support full destruction or stop stating things like facts? I don't think we know one way or another yet?

Read the OP.

 

[Trup1aya]

I saw it and I'm not convinced that any actions in the demo are based on computations an isolated Xbox One can't make, let alone based on computations being bounced from the console to an outside source, and back again during real-time action gameplay. I'm not doubting the tech's viability to demonstrate additional power within a demo, but I very much doubt the practicality of it during gameplay. Sure, the guy in the video asserts that the tech isn't representative of his game, but the hyperbolic claims being made as to its usefulness in gaming, and the ammunition it's already offering in e-playground console warring isn't something we should devote too much attention to imo.

If you think I'm trolling just because I'm cynical, then I suggest you distance your passions from this subject.

You are certainly trolling if you think an isolated Xbox one could handle the physics calculations required to level an entire city block in this fashion...

Hell, my Xbox stutters when I play battlefield..

 

[Naminator]

I love how there are so many people that are soooo concerned about the financials of MS and their Azure servers. Please do tell us again about how concerned you are that this is not financially feasible for MS, and that this is all just smoke and mirrors.

 

[Nafai1123]

Huh? Third parties pay for server rentals anyway... This would allow them to use servers on demand instead of trying to estimate load... It could potentially save them money to use Azure for their multiplayer suite...

TitanFall developers has stated that azure is the cheapest way to supply dedicated servers for MP games...

Many of the big 3rd party publishers already have their own servers, so there's no reason to pay another company to host them. That's why you see games like Battlefield still using EA servers on XB1.

 

[Three]

This! Microsoft is doing so much for their gamers while Sony is doing nothing besides moneyhatting games, announce games that are 3-4 years away and act like they won E3 2015, don't add bacward compatibility, don't allow EA Access and abandon the PlayStation Vita!

This is a parody post. It's got to be.

 

[Kayant]

This! Microsoft is doing so much for their gamers while Sony is doing nothing besides moneyhatting games, announce games that are 3-4 years away and act like they won E3 2015, don't add bacward compatibility, don't allow EA Access and abandon the PlayStation Vita!

Such bait...

 

[AndyD]

I feel like people are mixing up 'the destructed building doesn't just vanish' and 'damage is permanent'. I imagine each game of MP resets the map, but it should stick around for as long as its' potientally relevant to game play.

We really don't have the full details yet.

That's a very good point. If the buildings collapse but then most "particles" disappear or become fixed, then it's relatively useless from a gameplay perspective. It would be similar to the mass destruction events in Battlefield games where the destruction alters the landscape in a significant way. But I doubt that's the case. This seems to be a more permanent type of available destruction.

 

[Trup1aya]

This will only save them money if they were doing the same thing on reserved servers. What you're missing is that the alternative is not doing this on Amazon on Azure at all.

No, even if you aren't using cloud computing, if your game includes an online component (like Multiplayer), you're going to pay to rent servers anyway...

So you can either choose a less flexible option like rackspace, or you can choose an On demand option like Azure..

 

[Tecnniqe]

The day Xbox gives me nanomachines is they day I'll praise them for managing to give their console PC power.


On a more serious note, if the servers hold up globally it's a great step forward into the cloud.

 

[Trup1aya]

Many of the big 3rd party publishers already have their own servers, so there's no reason to pay another company to host them. That's why you see games like Battlefield still using EA servers on XB1.

If we're talking dedicated servers, Most companies rent servers, as its prohibitively expensive to own and maintain server farms all over the world..

With P2P solutions, The servers they own are pretty much just used for authentication, and the game sessions are hosted on one of the players local machines...