Support NeoGAF

[Royal_Flush]

Correct. Here's my role claim

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=176219550&postcount=2809

Ah, I missed that PS.

Speaking of Sawneeks. There was a roleclaim yesterday (2905) where she seemed to have included her role-PM. I can't for the life of main not reconstruct what her role actually does from the rest of the post. Could anybody tell me what the claim was?

 

[kingkitty]

That's two nights in a row! We got this people!

Maybe this points towards a roleblocker in play, and they've pinpointed who's doing the kills. Whoever you are, well done, and just tell us your suspect with your vote, i personally feel like D5 would be too early to roleclaim this particular role.

Lots to talk about today, unfortunately i can't do much of it as I'm traveling and on mobile...

it's either a roleblocker who is hot out of the fucking gate.

or maybe despair is just missing left and right.

 

[Makai]

Despair must be targeting empty facilites.

 

[CornBurrito]

Despair must be targeting empty facilites.

Yeah. They tried getting the Lovers for a 2 for 1. But they failed. Two nights in a row. That is my belief.

 

[Swamped]

No. I dont think a role blocker is at play. We saw from Czar's pm that the killer can be anyone on team Despair. The odds of targeting the correct person two nights in a row is too low for me to take that possibility seriously.

I mean, maybe they targeted someone N3 and were successful in stopping a kill so they decided to target the same person again.

Alternatively, we might have another protector in play. Archer game had doctors who came into play after one of them died.

Or Despair is just really bad and keeps missing lol

 

[Sawneeks]

Ah, I missed that PS.

Speaking of Sawneeks. There was a roleclaim yesterday (2905) where she seemed to have included her role-PM. I can't for the life of main not reconstruct what her role actually does from the rest of the post. Could anybody tell me what the claim was?

No, you're right, I never actually revealed the specifics of what my role does and I have no plans to reveal that information either.

Surprised you were the first to pick up on that though. No one really questioned it yesterday.

 

[Royal_Flush]

Guys, I know it's the obvious and hot topic right now. But did you consider that Despair doesn't know either? Maybe we should keep it that way.

Unless it is somehow important to coordinate further actions for Hope. But I don't see why that would be.

 

[Sawneeks]

Also, as odd as it might be, maybe Despair decided not to kill someone? I'm not saying they did that two Nights in a row but maybe they miss/get blocked one Night and then decided to not act the next?

 

[CornBurrito]

Actually there's an issue with my Lovers theory.

If the Lovers are this hard to target, and Makai's role claim is correct (2 players immune to night kills), that makes like 4 people who are nearly impossible for Despair to night kill. That seems absurd. And 4 people who are linked and know the alignment of another Hope player. Even more absurd seeming. It seems too large an advantage.

 

[Pau]

If Despair is missing because it's targeting Ty4on and me, we've done our job.

If Pau saw Sawneeks I'm inclined to vote for her. When she was almost voted out she said "Don't go on anymore night adventures without me." to Crab. That seems very odd to do if Hope aligned, because it outs two more people as wandering PRs.

Meanwhile I think Crab voted for Sawneeks because of his night encounter. Sawneeks might be a Hope PR, but I have doubts.

I too thought that was weird but it's possible that Sawneeks was convinced Crab was Despair.

From my limited information and without assuming another wandering Despair, I think the only people who could have killed SalvaPot on N2 were: CzarTim, Sawneeks, or AbsolutBro.

I forget. AbsolutBro, where did you end up N2? At Terra's room right?

Sawneeks, did you go by CzarTim's room? If I understand correctly, if you go by someone's room, you'll see them if they're out.

I don't think *redacted* could have been the N2 killer.

 

[Pau]

Actually there's an issue with my Lovers theory.

If the Lovers are this hard to target, and Makai's role claim is correct (2 players immune to night kills), that makes like 4 people who are nearly impossible for Despair to night kill. That seems absurd. And 4 people who are linked and know the alignment of another Hope player. Even more absurd seeming. It seems too large an advantage.

Makai claims to not know who his partner is and vice versa. So not too advantageous.

 

[Sawneeks]

I too thought that was weird but it's possible that Sawneeks was convinced Crab was Despair.

From my limited information and without assuming another wandering Despair, I think the only people who could have killed SalvaPot on N2 were: CzarTim, Sawneeks, or AbsolutBro.

I forget. AbsolutBro, where did you end up N2? At Terra's room right?

Sawneeks, did you go by CzarTim's room? If I understand correctly, if you go by someone's room, you'll see them if they're out.

I don't think *redacted* could have been the N2 killer.

Yup, that's right. As long as you cross paths with another person you will see each other. I saw CzarTim on Night 1, I did not see him Night 3. I believe we saw the same person on Night 3 but, as they are not out, I will not say a name. But is this person the same one you saw last night?

 

[CornBurrito]

If Despair is missing because it's targeting Ty4on and me, we've done our job.


I too thought that was weird but it's possible that Sawneeks was convinced Crab was Despair.

From my limited information and without assuming another wandering Despair, I think the only people who could have killed SalvaPot on N2 were: CzarTim, Sawneeks, or AbsolutBro.

I forget. AbsolutBro, where did you end up N2? At Terra's room right?

Sawneeks, did you go by CzarTim's room? If I understand correctly, if you go by someone's room, you'll see them if they're out.

I don't think *redacted* could have been the N2 killer.

Last night was N4 right? You saw AB and redacted.

Did you see AB or redacted on N3? Dont name redacted.

 

[Sawneeks]

Guys, I know it's the obvious and hot topic right now. But did you consider that Despair doesn't know either? Maybe we should keep it that way.

Unless it is somehow important to coordinate further actions for Hope. But I don't see why that would be.

Yeah, I agree. Despair might not even know why they are missing kills. We shouldn't delve too deeply into this discussion. Just be good with the fact that whatever is going on seems to be working.

 

[Rest]

Meanwhile I think Crab voted for Sawneeks because of his night encounter. Sawneeks might be a Hope PR, but I have doubts.

I want to explore this.

VOTE: Sawneeks

 

[Royal_Flush]

No, you're right, I never actually revealed the specifics of what my role does and I have no plans to reveal that information either.

Surprised you were the first to pick up on that though. No one really questioned it yesterday.

Thanks. That's an oddly convenient roleclaim tough. Alibi for wandering at night without risk of being counterclaimed.

Just saying. Not fishing. I'm sure you have your reasons. But it won't move you up (or down) in my scum-list.

 

[Sawneeks]

I want to explore this.

VOTE: Sawneeks

I mean if you're asking why I got suspicious of Crab at the end of Day 3:

I already explained why I did that to Crab. I saw Crab, SalvaPot, and CzarTim on Night 1. Salva dies so I assume I saw the killer. CzarTim clears himself as Hope in my mind and when Crab jumps on me toward the end of the Day I believe it's because he is a scared Despair player who knows I saw him. I hinted at him moving because, in case I died ( which I was close ) I wanted to leave a trail for people to catch.

As we know it didn't turn out this way at all.

I already explained. Twice.

 

[Ty4on]

SalvaPot could also have switched himself the night he died. Pau saw him and Goshujinsama said:

If I was a Switcher: I would switch the occupants of two out of the four rooms on the upper right corner tonight

In #1965 at the end of D2.

 

[Sawneeks]

Thanks. That's an oddly convenient roleclaim tough. Alibi for wandering at night without risk of being counterclaimed.

Just saying. Not fishing. I'm sure you have your reasons. But it won't move you up (or down) in my scum-list.

Fair enough, I don't blame you.

If you ever get anymore questions about stuff I did though feel free to ask. I can at least try to move my placement on your scum-list to a more Hopeful side.

Spoiler

 

[Swamped]

One other thing:

"You win when only Despair aligned players remain"

I guess CzarTim wasn't lying about this one. The wording makes it sound like there might be some 3p around. I want to know people's opinions about this.

 

[Makai]

One other thing:

"You win when only Despair aligned players remain"

I guess CzarTim wasn't lying about this one. The wording makes it sound like there might be some 3p around. I want to know people's opinions about this.

Probably no serial killers considering the death toll.

 

[CornBurrito]

I mean if you're asking why I got suspicious of Crab at the end of Day 3:



I already explained. Twice.

The odd thing about that explanation is that you conveniently ran only into dead/Despair players.

 

[Swamped]

Probably no serial killers considering the death toll.

That's what I figured. There might be something else out there, but at this point we don't know if they are harmful or not to Hope. Anyway, since we don't have much info no point speculating down this Avenue, unless anyone has any ideas?

 

[Pau]

Yup, that's right. As long as you cross paths with another person you will see each other. I saw CzarTim on Night 1, I did not see him Night 3. I believe we saw the same person on Night 3 but, as they are not out, I will not say a name. But is this person the same one you saw last night?

Wait, what about N2? And yes, same person.

Last night was N4 right? You saw AB and redacted.

Did you see AB or redacted on N3? Dont name redacted.

Yes, N3 for us was AB and redacted.

SalvaPot could also have switched himself the night he died. Pau saw him and Goshujinsama said:

In #1965 at the end of D2.

I think it's more likely that CzarTim crossed him and killed him. Although if SalvaPot knew he was seen... maybe he would try to save himself? And then Despair got lucky and targeted the person he switched with?

 

[CornBurrito]

Probably no serial killers considering the death toll.

Hmm... i wonder about that though. Is it possible we have a serial killer(s) who are biding their time? Its a legit strategy given that they'd want to avoid fight club.

 

[Sawneeks]

One other thing:

"You win when only Despair aligned players remain"

I guess CzarTim wasn't lying about this one. The wording makes it sound like there might be some 3p around. I want to know people's opinions about this.

Only problem here is that it's fairly ambiguous.

"When only Despair aligned players remain" could mean simply when Hope ( all players who aren't despair ) is dead that Despair wins. It could also mean that when Hope plus some Neutral faction is all gone then they win.

We simply don't know. But I feel we need to focus more on suspicious players rather than mechanics. Speaking of which, can a

Vote: TL21xx

come forward to the stand? You ended a Day early when many people agreed we should use all of the Day to our advantage. I'm curious to know your reasoning as to why.

 

[CornBurrito]

Yes, N3 for us was AB and redacted.

!!!

So that means the killer is probably AB or redacted doesn't it? If I'm correct with my theory about them trying to target you.

 

[Ty4on]

despair suks

it's either a roleblocker who is hot out of the fucking gate.

or maybe despair is just missing left and right.

You're obviously here so let's see something less neutral.

VOTE: kingkitty

This is just a gut instinct, but you've slid under my radar after that weird D1 post and never voted for CzarTim D3. You never had any strong reasons for the votes against Kalor or Sawneeks either.

 

[Royal_Flush]

One other thing:

"You win when only Despair aligned players remain"

I guess CzarTim wasn't lying about this one. The wording makes it sound like there might be some 3p around. I want to know people's opinions about this.

I agree. Compare Cthulhu.

I don't think it's possible to have a 3P without changing the Win-Con for Mafia to "only Mafia-aligned players". So it's likely there is 3P.

 

[Swamped]

The reason i brought up the win condition is that usually in these types of games Mafia wins when their numbers match Town. This is just a curious thing from CzarTim's PM.

 

[Sawneeks]

The odd thing about that explanation is that you conveniently ran only into dead/Despair players.

Not true. Crab and CzarTim were both around when I talked about my role and both ( at the time ) were very well alive and considered Hope players.

Wait, what about N2? And yes, same person.


Yes, N3 for us was AB and redacted.


I think it's more likely that CzarTim crossed him and killed him. Although if SalvaPot knew he was seen... maybe he would try to save himself? And then Despair got lucky and targeted the person he switched with?

Hm, okay. Interesting. Considering this movement only starts up after CzarTim is found to be Despair I would suggest to watch them. Out them? No, just in case a Hope PR. But definitely a watch.

 

[Ty4on]

Not true. Crab and CzarTim were both around when I talked about my role and both ( at the time ) were very well alive and considered Hope players.

Crab would have needed to roleclaim to confirm and had no idea Czar would kill him.

 

[Sawneeks]

I agree. Compare Cthulhu.

I don't think it's possible to have a 3P without changing the Win-Con for Mafia to "only Mafia-aligned players". So it's likely there is 3P.

The reason i brought up the win condition is that usually in these types of games Mafia wins when their numbers match Town. This is just a curious thing from CzarTim's PM.

It's probably due to my ignorance then, my mistake.

If there does happen to be a 3rd party on the lose they obviously are not killers as we only got 1 Night kill per night so far. Are alternative win conditions common?

 

[CornBurrito]

Not true. Crab and CzarTim were both around when I talked about my role and both ( at the time ) were very well alive and considered Hope players.

Oh... well nevermind then.

I'm voting either for AB or -redacted- today.

 

[kingkitty]

You're obviously here so let's see something less neutral.

VOTE: kingkitty

This is just a gut instinct, but you've slid under my radar after that weird D1 post and never voted for CzarTim D3. You never had any strong reasons for the votes against Kalor or Sawneeks either.

My reason for voting Kalor was based on "gut instinct" about how he slid under my radar. Seems a bit similar to how you're voting for me. And sawneeks was more of a pragmatic choice to save Czar (whose martyr move was convincing me).

 

[Pau]

!!!

So that means the killer is probably AB or redacted doesn't it? If I'm correct with my theory about them trying to target you.

This is what I'm leaning towards.

Hm, okay. Interesting. Considering this movement only starts up after CzarTim is found to be Despair I would suggest to watch them. Out them? No, just in case a Hope PR. But definitely a watch.

I saw *redacted* starting on N2. But they couldn't have killed SalvaPot.

 

[Sawneeks]

Also, @Pau, I didn't move Night 2. I'm in the dark when it comes to that one.

Crab would have needed to roleclaim to confirm and had no idea Czar would kill him.

And I had no idea CzarTim was Despair and Crab was a Hope Doctor at that time. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Ty4on]

My reason for voting Kalor was based on "gut instinct" about how he slid under my radar. Seems a bit similar to how you're voting for me. And sawneeks was more of a pragmatic choice to save Czar (whose martyr move was convincing me).

That's something. Do you have anything current regarding Kalor and Sawneeks? The latter is much more active now.

 

[Sawneeks]

This is what I'm leaning towards.


I saw *redacted* starting on N2. But they couldn't have killed SalvaPot.

Starting N2 and not N3? Okay...

 

[CornBurrito]

This is what I'm leaning towards.


I saw *redacted* starting on N2. But they couldn't have killed SalvaPot.

Sorry I'm having trouble keeping this in my head.

Can you list form this?

N1: seen people
N2: seen people
N3: seen people
N4: seen people

Feel free to use redacted and other placeholders for people you do not wish to out.

Also now that we know Czartim's full role PM, I'm certain he was the one who killed franconp. That was N1 right? You and AB both saw Czartim correct? If the killer of franconp had been someone else, Czartim wouldn't have been seen wandering that night.

This is partly why I lean towards your current redacted than AB as mafia.

 

[kingkitty]

That's something. Do you have anything current regarding Kalor and Sawneeks? The latter is much more active now.

From my gut, I'd default vote for Kalor, going back to my original reasoning. For a more incisive junk analysis, I'll write something up on these two, plus some other characters by tomorrow, (either 12pm eastern time on the 1st of September, or 3pm eastern time, or 5pm eastern time).

 

[Zippedpinhead]

Also, @Pau, I didn't move Night 2. I'm in the dark when it comes to that one.

And I had no idea CzarTim was Despair and Crab was a Hope Doctor at that time. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

We survived another night with no deaths? Based on the fact that czartim's role does not specifically state that despair have the option to not target, we have to assume that they must target someone each night.

I quoted sawneeks post because it raised a question for me. Does anyone else (revealed) have a role that allows them to not break the rules every night? Or if you fail to get the action to launch in time it reverts to do nothing?

just something to think about, we don't have to discuss it. Sometimes mechanics are better thought about than talked about. Nobody riding in two days makes me think, if we vote no lynch what happens?

 

[Zippedpinhead]

That's supposed to be "with nobody Dying in two days..."

 

[Swamped]

Sorry I'm having trouble keeping this in my head.

Can you list form this?

N1: seen people
N2: seen people
N3: seen people
N4: seen people

Feel free to use redacted and other placeholders for people you do not wish to out.

Also now that we know Czartim's full role PM, I'm certain he was the one who killed franconp. That was N1 right? You and AB both saw Czartim correct? If the killer of franconp had been someone else, Czartim wouldn't have been seen wandering that night.

This is partly why I lean towards your current redacted than AB as mafia.

What do you think of the possibility of 2 Despairs running around N1, before they realized that the map mechanics could implicate them? I think, from what Launchpad said at the start of the game, it's obvious that nobody knew how the map worked.

 

[CornBurrito]

What do you think of the possibility of 2 Despairs running around N1, before they realized that the map mechanics could implicate them? I think, from what Launchpad said at the start of the game, it's obvious that nobody knew how the map worked.

Look at Czartim's PM and explain to me how he was running around unless he was making use of the kill ability to kill franconp.

 

[Swamped]

Look at Czartim's PM and explain to me how he was running around unless he was making use of the kill ability to kill franconp.

Sure, CzarTim may have done the kill, but how do you know that other Despair members don't have powers that need them to move about at night?

 

[Makai]

Holding off night kills kinda makes sense as a strategy if Despair expects Town to lynch all of the outed power roles and their only outed power role is CzarTim.

 

[Swamped]

I hate to harp on about this but to me CzarTim's silly gambit doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless he was using it to protect someone else on the fight club list.

 

[Royal_Flush]

Look at Czartim's PM and explain to me how he was running around unless he was making use of the kill ability to kill franconp.

Could be a roleblocker, a rolecop or whatnot.

Yeah, I'm currently trying to analyze the movements of our Fight Club members. Additional list form would be helpful

I currently have

Pau N2-N4 (Destination missing),
Sawneeks N1 (Destination missing)
AB N1-N2.

Please fill in the missing ones with as much info as you feel comfortable with.

 

[Sawneeks]

I hate to harp on about this but to me CzarTim's silly gambit doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless he was using it to protect someone else on the fight club list.

I'm still really partial to this idea as well. Using a role like that this early just seems odd for Despair to do unless they did it to protect an even more important Despair role.

I will post it again for a new Day but here is a rough log of what happened at the end of Day 3 ( where Czar uses his role ). I still feel there is info to find there that could help implicate Despair if we believe Czar used his ability to save another member.